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Stargate Universe: Getting good just as it ends (Spoilers Ahoy)

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Posts

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Many rejuvenations? They have the ability to make nanotechnological human analogues, which they're terrified of because of their destructive potential. And then they dealt with one by downloading it into a Matrix VR sim.

    There's so much crazy technology rolling around the SGC it's become downright unbelievable that humanity hasn't just skipped to the post-scarcity transhumanist society yet.

  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    tallgeeze wrote: »
    I liked the episode, but this neural hologram stuff should have been introduced way more often before hand. We all wanted to know what happened to that one guy who went in the chair, but they just made it that he has been a program all this time. If that's true he has been a goose because he hasn't helped the crew at all.

    It was better to think that he was just a figment of Rush's mind when he showed up last time.

    Rush said he'd turned off the neural links which is why he hasn't shown up since.



    And yea, my #1 problem with the Stargate series has always been their weird insistence that Earth is completely normal despite everything they've learned. If it wasn't for their ridiculous level of secrecy, humankind could've advanced 200 years in the last ten, and instead of building a few ships in secret Earth could be running a galactic empire.

  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Many rejuvenations? They have the ability to make nanotechnological human analogues, which they're terrified of because of their destructive potential. And then they dealt with one by downloading it into a Matrix VR sim.

    There's so much crazy technology rolling around the SGC it's become downright unbelievable that humanity hasn't just skipped to the post-scarcity transhumanist society yet.

    Oh definitely, but I'm just saying in terms of things they have lying around already built. We're producing and supplying all jaffa with their longevity drug and we've seen entire fleets of goa'uld ships under our control, each equipped with a sarcophagus, which takes quite a few doses to drive you evil. I mean, the sarcophagus can literally ressurect the dead, Jack spent one episode being repeatedly tortured to death and put in one Daniel Jackson used one was a plot device a few times.

    Why does anyone ever die in the stargate setting exactly? Disease, old age and even accidental death can all be corrected with things we have lying around.

    If we actually bothered to use the other amazing technology we have then yes, transhumanism here we come.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I thought the Tok'ra were the ones making the jaffa drug.

    Anywho, it's unbelievable that the US government has managed to build like FIVE fucking intergalactic battlecruisers without the public finding out about it. Not to mention fleets of interplanetary fighters, and who KNOWS how much money has been sunk directly into the Stargate program, as well as Area 51.

    Pile on top of this the sheer inhumanity of having all of this hyper-advanced technology and not widely distributing it soley to keep this program top secret. I mean, forget the fucking sarcophagi, the SGC should be able to build those little healing amulet thingies (probably without even needing a naquada injection) and train people how to use them. It's bloody Goa'uld tech and they're up to their necks in Asgard and Ancient technology.

    'course, I suppose the real reason the government would never do that is that the pharmaceutical and medical industries would throw an utter shit fit, and we all know how the government has to obey it's corporate masters.

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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I thought the Tok'ra were the ones making the jaffa drug.

    Anywho, it's unbelievable that the US government has managed to build like FIVE fucking intergalactic battlecruisers without the public finding out about it. Not to mention fleets of interplanetary fighters, and who KNOWS how much money has been sunk directly into the Stargate program, as well as Area 51.

    Pile on top of this the sheer inhumanity of having all of this hyper-advanced technology and not widely distributing it soley to keep this program top secret. I mean, forget the fucking sarcophagi, the SGC should be able to build those little healing amulet thingies (probably without even needing a naquada injection) and train people how to use them. It's bloody Goa'uld tech and they're up to their necks in Asgard and Ancient technology.

    'course, I suppose the real reason the government would never do that is that the pharmaceutical and medical industries would throw an utter shit fit, and we all know how the government has to obey it's corporate masters.

    I'd like to reiterate my previous treatise on how SGU was a missed opportunity to have the Stargate project made public back on Earth.

    They've got this totally extraterrestrial setting, so they don't have to deal with it all the time (i.e. it would be CG budget friendly). But they've also got a beautiful "slice of Earth" story mechanism with the stones.

    Had they decided to run that course, they might've had better episodes and not been cancelled just as I'm starting to warm up to the setting.

  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo When life gives you lemons... ...eat your delicious lemonsRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    [
    I'd like to reiterate my previous treatise on how SGU was a missed opportunity to have the Stargate project made public back on Earth.

    They've got this totally extraterrestrial setting, so they don't have to deal with it all the time (i.e. it would be CG budget friendly). But they've also got a beautiful "slice of Earth" story mechanism with the stones.

    Had they decided to run that course, they might've had better episodes and not been cancelled just as I'm starting to warm up to the setting.

    Eh, it's silly that it's a secret but having the reveal at the start of SGU wouldn't have changed anything.

    What it needed was tighter planning. More focus on the survival stuff early on, with sensible resolutions to the problems; some kind of limitation on the stones, or having to work towards the current state of free communication and endless access to the relevant experts; more exploration of the ship; better handling of the whatsit Alliance (possibly a mole or something on Destiny and the writers remembering that in quite a few episodes the hold was full of "badguys")

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  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Man I'd love if the US were settling other planets (same process as expanding into the western frontier in the 19th century) and the Stargate were at the center of a massive railroad station. Tons of tracks, the gate moves on a conveyor parrallel to rows of them, constantly being dialed out as it's moved, and trains roaring through to another world before the process repeats. Massive, precisely calibrated timetables, slick high tech trains, massive tons of freight and passengers moving to new worlds, exotic raw materials pouring back.

    You could make an entire Firefly-style show about life on these frontier towns if you wanted to. And some planets already have societies, a few legitimatiely advanced. A diplomatic core makes proper contact with all of them, bringing greetings and advanced technology from the ancestral homeworld. Meanwhile back on Earth miraculous technology revolutionizes every industry, cures all that ails us and propels us into a Second Rennaisance.

    Galactic politics would be kinda boring though, our ridiculously over the top ultimate technology with the entre industry of the Earth utilizing it, a rapidly expanding number of worlds and being close allies with the warrior race nation that controls the military assets of the former galactic power means "don't fuck with us".

    I mean, it takes extraordinairy suspension of disbelief to take the Lucian Alliance seriously as it is. I get that they're effectively space terrorists, but they're not some disembodied organization. They're a government with people and planets that they'd presumably not want to see massacred. MAD should be in full effect here, where cloaked cargo ship carrying a WMD nuking Washington means a battlecruiser roasts all your worlds.

    Anyway, I'm very much on the "man, wouldn't it be cool if the Stragate setting was more realistic" team but it's pretty clear that their goal is to basically recreate the original first few seasons in each spin off. Atlantis went to another galaxy to try to avoid the power creep but that wasn't far enough, so they took Universe to this extreme and well, still fucked it up. I hate the communication stones so much.

  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    That would be awesome, Lan.

    Thats what the next SG series should be.

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
  • ToxTox I kill threads Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I keep seeing these words "stargate" "time travel"

    There was only one good time travel episode in, like, all of sci-fi television, and it was the Moebius two-parter that was originally supposed to end SG-1.

    Continuum was actually not that bad, either, but it was less about time travel and a bit more about alternate dimensions.

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  • ToxTox I kill threads Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Can we make this an all-things-Stargate? I never cared for SGU. Frankly, I believe "200" said everything that needed to be said about it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAgODVbPq78

    Am I close? I'm pretty close, aren't I?

    Grey Ghost wrote: »
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  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Yes, exactly that

  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    The more Lan's idea simmers in my head, the more I want to see old timey steam locomotives chugging through huge stargates to other worlds making delieveries of goods and people.

    Or even a scaled down stargate technology that allowed local gating, Like between two points on a planet or between other planets/moons in a solar system.

    Earth has the sum total of ancient knowledge AND the sum total of Asgard knowledge, you can't tell me this isnt possible.

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    The more Lan's idea simmers in my head, the more I want to see old timey steam locomotives chugging through huge stargates to other worlds making delieveries of goods and people.

    Or even a scaled down stargate technology that allowed local gating, Like between two points on a planet or between other planets/moons in a solar system.

    Earth has the sum total of ancient knowledge AND the sum total of Asgard knowledge, you can't tell me this isnt possible.

    They already have transporting technology and rings.

  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    The whole Stargate franchise was totally fucked the instant they started handing out technology like candy. They've got the total sum of Asgard knowledge. An ancient city-ship, the destiny. Shit-tons of goauld tech and that's just the major stuff not counting the countless other things they've learned.

    They should have blowed themselves up out their own ignorance. We've constantly been told that you can't give advanced tech to less primitive people because they'll just fuck up or use it to war against themselves and blow everyone to oblivion. Yet somehow, Earth is the exception.

    Ancient and Asgard tech should be so ridiculously advanced it should be as if it was magic to us puny humans. yet somehow we're able to understand it and even outthink their technology on a weekly basis

    The franchise has jumped the shark so many damned times it's ridiculous.

    Yet for some reason, we keep watching it.

    In fact, tonight's episode was really fucking good imo. Why is it shows improve drastically when they're cancelled?

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    VoodooV wrote: »
    The whole Stargate franchise was totally fucked the instant they started handing out technology like candy. They've got the total sum of Asgard knowledge. An ancient city-ship, the destiny. Shit-tons of goauld tech and that's just the major stuff not counting the countless other things they've learned.

    They should have blowed themselves up out their own ignorance. We've constantly been told that you can't give advanced tech to less primitive people because they'll just fuck up or use it to war against themselves and blow everyone to oblivion. Yet somehow, Earth is the exception.
    Oh please, that's just something arrogant blowhard aliens say. The whole reason the asgard gave the SGC their tech is that they felt they were the only ones in the known universe who had knowledge, discipline and character to use it wisely.

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  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    riight....because that describes earth so well

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I didn't say Earth, I said the SGC, who have plot morals.

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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    VoodooV wrote: »
    The whole Stargate franchise was totally fucked the instant they started handing out technology like candy. They've got the total sum of Asgard knowledge. An ancient city-ship, the destiny. Shit-tons of goauld tech and that's just the major stuff not counting the countless other things they've learned.

    They should have blowed themselves up out their own ignorance. We've constantly been told that you can't give advanced tech to less primitive people because they'll just fuck up or use it to war against themselves and blow everyone to oblivion. Yet somehow, Earth is the exception.
    Oh please, that's just something arrogant blowhard aliens say. The whole reason the asgard gave the SGC their tech is that they felt they were the only ones in the known universe who had knowledge, discipline and character to use it wisely.

    The Tollan got wiped the fuck out precisely because of this type of arrogance. They had it coming.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Tox wrote: »
    I keep seeing these words "stargate" "time travel"

    There was only one good time travel episode in, like, all of sci-fi television, and it was the Moebius two-parter that was originally supposed to end SG-1.

    Continuum was actually not that bad, either, but it was less about time travel and a bit more about alternate dimensions.

    Incorrect!

    The best time travel episode, by anything, ever, is clearly Window of Opportunity.

  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Tox wrote: »
    I keep seeing these words "stargate" "time travel"

    There was only one good time travel episode in, like, all of sci-fi television, and it was the Moebius two-parter that was originally supposed to end SG-1.

    Continuum was actually not that bad, either, but it was less about time travel and a bit more about alternate dimensions.

    Incorrect!

    The best time travel episode, by anything, ever, is clearly Window of Opportunity.

    That's not a time travel episode. That's a groundhogs day episode.

    No one watches Groundhog's Day and says, "It's about Bill Murray meets time travel!"

  • CatalaseCatalase Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Tox wrote: »
    There was only one good time travel episode in, like, all of sci-fi television
    Doctor Who would like a word with you.

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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Catalase wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    There was only one good time travel episode in, like, all of sci-fi television
    Doctor Who would like a word with you.

    270px-SiskoKirk.jpg

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Tox wrote: »
    I keep seeing these words "stargate" "time travel"

    There was only one good time travel episode in, like, all of sci-fi television, and it was the Moebius two-parter that was originally supposed to end SG-1.

    Continuum was actually not that bad, either, but it was less about time travel and a bit more about alternate dimensions.

    Incorrect!

    The best time travel episode, by anything, ever, is clearly Window of Opportunity.

    I had a tab all open and ready to go to type exactly this. Window of Opportunity is one of the best one-off SG-1 episodes ever made, and my favorite light-hearted time shenanigans episode by far.

    People who don't realize that TNG's Yesterday's Enterprise is the best time travel episode ever made though either haven't seen it or are fooling themselves.

    Seriously, you get to see the ENT-C for the first time, Tasha comes back and doesn't whine constantly about rape gangs, it creates the setup for Romulan Tasha in later episodes, and it has Shooter McGavin as Lt Awesome. Also, awesome TNG-alt uniforms.

  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo When life gives you lemons... ...eat your delicious lemonsRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    No, Richy is right. Trials and Tribble-ations and the best time travel episode in anything.

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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    No, Richy is right. Trials and Tribble-ations and the best time travel episode in anything.

    Yeah, I was wrong. Richy is correct.

  • BlarghyBlarghy Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Speaking of time travel, has the show ever dealt with the possibility that the message from the beginning of time was from somebody deciding to travel back in time to be present at the birth of the universe? I mean, they live in a universe where time travel is a proven and somewhat well understood concept. Wouldn't the beginning of time be a natural place that a potential time traveller would want to go to, if only to check it out?

    They're all acting as if this could only be from God, but they already know about the ancients (which, hell, are basically gods after ascension) and time travellers.

  • ArchonexArchonex Registered User
    edited April 2011
    VoodooV wrote: »
    The whole Stargate franchise was totally fucked the instant they started handing out technology like candy. They've got the total sum of Asgard knowledge. An ancient city-ship, the destiny. Shit-tons of goauld tech and that's just the major stuff not counting the countless other things they've learned.

    They should have blowed themselves up out their own ignorance. We've constantly been told that you can't give advanced tech to less primitive people because they'll just fuck up or use it to war against themselves and blow everyone to oblivion. Yet somehow, Earth is the exception.
    Oh please, that's just something arrogant blowhard aliens say. The whole reason the asgard gave the SGC their tech is that they felt they were the only ones in the known universe who had knowledge, discipline and character to use it wisely.

    To be fair. They spent at least half of the series' history proving those aliens right. Practically any time the SGC got their hands on alien tech, they ended up fucking things up somehow.


    I'm pretty sure things peaked around the time they realized their cloaking devices were letting in eldritch horrors from a (since unmentioned since like, season one.) alternate reality.


    Honestly, if they didn't start getting a bit more competent, i'd have been suspicious as to whether that corrupt senator was right.


    Edit: Also, the best time travel (Technically a loop, but they're just going back in time each time they fuck up.) episode was the episode where Teal'c and O'neil get stuck in a never-ending time loop.

    The best part is that they take the logical conclusion to O'neil's personality and increasing frustration at both his and Teal'c's situation, along with Daniel's absolutely dumb-ass suggestion that nothing they do matters if time resets. That's when the chaos (And hilarity) starts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCcHqmA9lfU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plyRr3wgwtc&feature=related


    Really, Daniel probably suffered at least one death from karma alone, just for saying something so utterly stupid to O'Neil.

  • ToxTox I kill threads Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I don't consider time-loops to be the same as time-travel. Window of Opportunity was friggin awesome, though.

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  • BolthornBolthorn Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Blarghy wrote: »
    Speaking of time travel, has the show ever dealt with the possibility that the message from the beginning of time was from somebody deciding to travel back in time to be present at the birth of the universe? I mean, they live in a universe where time travel is a proven and somewhat well understood concept. Wouldn't the beginning of time be a natural place that a potential time traveller would want to go to, if only to check it out?

    They're all acting as if this could only be from God, but they already know about the ancients (which, hell, are basically gods after ascension) and time travellers.

    I know I would check out the beginning of the universe if it were possible. Just out of total curiosity.
    Maybe Rush or Eli may have have considered the message could be just from some time traveler. I don't give the writers that much credit though. Probably a bad idea to mention to the rest of the crew that the transmission they're heading for could just be some random non important person. Especially with how important they've made the message seem to everyone else on board the ship.

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  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I don't have a problem with Time Travel specifically. I just feel that sci fi abuses time travel so much.

    Doctor Who is different of course though, I'm not sure why exactly..but it just is. Maybe it's because they never bother with any flippin technobabble in doctor who. Or if they do, it's always tongue in cheek and nothing in the plot really hinges on the babble too often. Other sci fi seems to rely on that tired trope of "oh nos! the bad guys are using time travels to beat us in the past! we gotta go back in time too and stop them to preserve the time line" It seems like time travel episodes always revolves around timeline preservation.

    And I agree with Tox, Window of Opportunity is not a time travel episode...it's simply glorious.

  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    It might be because Doctor Who is leagues better than any other sci fi show.

    I mean look at the thread we are talking about this in. SGU doesn't even deserve to be in the same sentence as Doctor Who.

  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2011
    You just put Dr Who and SGU in the same sentence, dude.

  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    If only I had some kind of time and relative dimensions in space machine so I could stop myself

  • ToxTox I kill threads Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Yeah, doctor who kind of gets a pass because time travel is the premise, and they seem to get away with a simple handwave when it comes to anything even remotely resembling time paradox.

    Moebius is a great time travel episode to me because, like exactly every other good stargate episode, the plan is simple, beautiful, and destined to blow up in their faces. I like it specifically because it addresses the time travel paradoxes, and they have to go back and work around it and fix it. They just happen to get lucky enough to succeed at their original plan in the process.

    Grey Ghost wrote: »
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  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Doctor who is just damn good TV. It's dramatic, funny, heartwrenching and heartwarming, often all in the space of an hour. Repeatedly.

    SG-1 was good TV for everything Season 5-8. The other seasons were good Sci-Fi but not necessarily exceptional TV period. Atlantis...Maybe the back half of 4 and some of 5. SGU has barely been adequate Sci-fi, let alone a good television show.

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  • ToxTox I kill threads Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    SG-1's 9 and 10 were alright. They were good sci-fi, but they did rehash some old SG-1 plots (like, they used the same plot hooks and everything). Other than that, it was good. It's arguably the best cast-shuffle a show has ever pulled off.

    My only gripe with Atlantis was that I felt like they canceled SG-1 to focus on Atlantis, and I didn't enjoy Atlantis as much. Also, I think after SG-1 ended, Jackson should have been put in charge of Atlantis. Since, you know, he actually had been an ancient a couple of times, and was fluent in the language. Oh, yeah, and he was the world's (galaxy's?) foremost expert on Atlantian/Ancient...everything.

    SG-U...honestly, I had a beef with SG-U from go because a) it was "darker, younger, edgier" and b) They claimed they weren't going to do any more SG-1 movies because they had two shows going, and didn't want the strain.

    But then Atlantis got canceled (some say because they made that claim), and still no more movies, so meh.

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  • ArchonexArchonex Registered User
    edited April 2011
    Really. Stargate is a tragic victim of the stupidity that has overtaken Sci-Fi (I refuse it to call it Sy-Fy. Feels like the way a particularly dumbass frat kid would call the damn thing.) lately. As I believe they own the rights to it, now.

    I still can't figure out how the fuck their current line-up of shows has anything to do with "Sci-Fi" as a genre. Sanctuary is one of the last strong holdouts, and it's cheesy as fuck in that "Sci-Fi original movie" sort of way. Which probably explains why it hasn't been canceled in favor of more shows that have nothing to do with the channel.



    I mean, compare the episode "200" with SG-U. They quite literally made straight-faced use of plots that they mocked as being cliche and ridiculous in "200".

  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Archonex wrote: »
    Really. Stargate is a tragic victim of the stupidity that has overtaken Sci-Fi (I refuse it to call it Sy-Fy. Feels like the way a particularly dumbass frat kid would call the damn thing.) lately. As I believe they own the rights to it, now.

    I still can't figure out how the fuck their current line-up of shows has anything to do with "Sci-Fi" as a genre. Sanctuary is one of the last strong holdouts, and it's cheesy as fuck in that "Sci-Fi original movie" sort of way. Which probably explains why it hasn't been canceled in favor of more shows that have nothing to do with the channel.



    I mean, compare the episode "200" with SG-U. They quite literally made straight-faced use of plots that they mocked as being cliche and ridiculous in "200".

    I like Eureka overall. This last season was pretty good. Warehouse 13 is a terrible show propped up by pretty decent acting. Haven I'm still not really sure how I feel about. How they handle the end of season finale when it comes back will probably make or break it for me. Otherwise...yeah Sci-Fi is just pretty terrible. I never thought I'd look back at the days they had Scare Tactics on as the height of decent programming on that channel.

    mvrck.png
  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Archonex wrote: »
    Really. Stargate is a tragic victim of the stupidity that has overtaken Sci-Fi (I refuse it to call it Sy-Fy. Feels like the way a particularly dumbass frat kid would call the damn thing.) lately. As I believe they own the rights to it, now.

    I still can't figure out how the fuck their current line-up of shows has anything to do with "Sci-Fi" as a genre. Sanctuary is one of the last strong holdouts, and it's cheesy as fuck in that "Sci-Fi original movie" sort of way. Which probably explains why it hasn't been canceled in favor of more shows that have nothing to do with the channel.



    I mean, compare the episode "200" with SG-U. They quite literally made straight-faced use of plots that they mocked as being cliche and ridiculous in "200".

    They changed from SciFi to SyFy because they could copyright (or trademark, one of the 2) SyFy but not SciFi.

    I enjoy both Eureka and Warehouse 13 although Warehouse 13 isn't quite sci-fi to me. I miss Dresden Files though - that show was great. And I really dig Haven - probably because I like Stephen King's brand of sci-fi, I like the setting, and the characters are all pretty interesting. I am also curious if they ever fold in the story from The Colorado Kid or if they just took the setting.

  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo When life gives you lemons... ...eat your delicious lemonsRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    See, that last episode was another good one. There's two solid plots going on, both of which contribute to the overall story. It just felt like it should have been a series or two earlier.

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