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[Gay Rights] Scott Walker still trying to get fired.

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Posts

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Where in California, may I ask?

    Because if I saw that here in SF, I would raise hell. And I doubt I would be the only one.

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  • LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Where in California, may I ask?

    Because if I saw that here in SF, I would raise hell. And I doubt I would be the only one.

    Same here in West Hollywood.

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  • lizard eats flieslizard eats flies Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    San Diego. And we did raise hell. But often the damage is already done. Especially if its someone who is JUST starting to come out, and told "this is a safe space, where you can be yourself without fear" and then to have that shot down is INCREDIBLY damaging. Granted its a rare occurrence, but it HAS happened.

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    San Diego. And we did raise hell. But often the damage is already done. Especially if its someone who is JUST starting to come out, and told "this is a safe space, where you can be yourself without fear" and then to have that shot down is INCREDIBLY damaging. Granted its a rare occurrence, but it HAS happened.

    Personally after the incident, I would have gone up the chain of command, up to calling donors to the place, if I could.

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  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Some of the most vitriolic anti-trans hate speech I have heard came from gay men I knew.
    Ugh. It is more common that you think.

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  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    So how much money is the Mormon Church going to spend interfering with another state's vote?

    Is it wrong to hope a LOT?

    I want to see their bottom-line suffer, and for them to lose more members like they did after Prop 8.
    I don't know much about it, but I'd say it's wrong. Aren't churches usually spending most of their money on charitable stuff? Like food and clothes for the needy and such?
    They spent thousands towards to the Pop 8 vote in CA. We can have a charity that doesn't support bigotry on the side.

    They essentially utilized the church's organization to funnel both cash and support in the form of bodies to advocate for a particular political outcome. Which is a big, big no no. In a just world in which we followed the law we would have revoked the entire church's tax exempt status in a heartbeat.
    I remember reading and hearing about how the Mormon church was donating over 70% of all the money spent supporting prop 8. So why in the sweaty hell was the government not jumping all over that?

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  • lizard eats flieslizard eats flies Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    San Diego. And we did raise hell. But often the damage is already done. Especially if its someone who is JUST starting to come out, and told "this is a safe space, where you can be yourself without fear" and then to have that shot down is INCREDIBLY damaging. Granted its a rare occurrence, but it HAS happened.

    Personally after the incident, I would have gone up the chain of command, up to calling donors to the place, if I could.

    Yeah we got people in charge to take care of it. General rule of the LGBT center is "use the bathrooms that you feel are most comfortable, and no one will stop you" The issue is with so many volunteers, they often dont get that memo. And training is quite lacking on trans stuff. Its a problem that we are working to fix.

    Plus, even if its not someone who's working there, or a volunteer or something, a random person could say something/harass you in the restroom. And even if the staff is completely on your side, it still doesnt erase the incident and still doesnt help feelings of confidence and safety.

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    San Diego. And we did raise hell. But often the damage is already done. Especially if its someone who is JUST starting to come out, and told "this is a safe space, where you can be yourself without fear" and then to have that shot down is INCREDIBLY damaging. Granted its a rare occurrence, but it HAS happened.

    Personally after the incident, I would have gone up the chain of command, up to calling donors to the place, if I could.

    Yeah we got people in charge to take care of it. General rule of the LGBT center is "use the bathrooms that you feel are most comfortable, and no one will stop you" The issue is with so many volunteers, they often dont get that memo. And training is quite lacking on trans stuff. Its a problem that we are working to fix.

    Plus, even if its not someone who's working there, or a volunteer or something, a random person could say something/harass you in the restroom. And even if the staff is completely on your side, it still doesnt erase the incident and still doesnt help feelings of confidence and safety.

    I figured it was something like that. That poor person though. That's gotta be traumatizing.

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  • lizard eats flieslizard eats flies Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    San Diego. And we did raise hell. But often the damage is already done. Especially if its someone who is JUST starting to come out, and told "this is a safe space, where you can be yourself without fear" and then to have that shot down is INCREDIBLY damaging. Granted its a rare occurrence, but it HAS happened.

    Personally after the incident, I would have gone up the chain of command, up to calling donors to the place, if I could.

    Yeah we got people in charge to take care of it. General rule of the LGBT center is "use the bathrooms that you feel are most comfortable, and no one will stop you" The issue is with so many volunteers, they often dont get that memo. And training is quite lacking on trans stuff. Its a problem that we are working to fix.

    Plus, even if its not someone who's working there, or a volunteer or something, a random person could say something/harass you in the restroom. And even if the staff is completely on your side, it still doesnt erase the incident and still doesnt help feelings of confidence and safety.

    I figured it was something like that. That poor person though. That's gotta be traumatizing.

    I guess thats the thing that bothers me the most about all this bathroom panic shit thats flying around. Trans people are FAR more afraid of using the bathrooms than cis people. Its fucking scary when you know how much people flip their shit over it. And statistically a trans person is way more likely to be assaulted for using a restroom, ANY restroom, than a cis gendered person. Yet trans people are still perceived as the threat.

  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    So how much money is the Mormon Church going to spend interfering with another state's vote?

    Is it wrong to hope a LOT?

    I want to see their bottom-line suffer, and for them to lose more members like they did after Prop 8.
    I don't know much about it, but I'd say it's wrong. Aren't churches usually spending most of their money on charitable stuff? Like food and clothes for the needy and such?
    They spent thousands towards to the Pop 8 vote in CA. We can have a charity that doesn't support bigotry on the side.

    They essentially utilized the church's organization to funnel both cash and support in the form of bodies to advocate for a particular political outcome. Which is a big, big no no. In a just world in which we followed the law we would have revoked the entire church's tax exempt status in a heartbeat.
    I remember reading and hearing about how the Mormon church was donating over 70% of all the money spent supporting prop 8. So why in the sweaty hell was the government not jumping all over that?

    I really don't know Spaniard, but I wish I did. Tax exempt status comes from IRS 501(c)(3), which states that tax exempt organizations may not be an "action organization," which is defined as attempting to influence legislation and/or participating in political campaigns. The IRS really could have looked at the LDS church's actions in California and have been well within their rights to strip them of their tax exempt status. As to why they refused to do so, I wish I knew. Especially because by not doing so, they have encouraged other religious organizations to put even more time and money into political action.

    I don't have the time to read this article from the IRS, but it seems to lay out a good groundwork for understanding what does and does not constitute political action and the basis for the tax exempt doctrine.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    James Dobson's little hate brigade admits defeat on same sex marriage.

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  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    James Dobson's little hate brigade admits defeat on same sex marriage.

    Hey maybe now they'll put all their resources toward something productive


    HAAAHAHA. HILARIOUS.

    More money for to destroy Planned Parenthood.

  • InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    They may admit defeat, but it'll likely take decades to reverse the various amendments and force states to stop discriminating. Without federal oversight they tend to reverse things like segregation, just imagine how quickly they'll chip away at the rights of an even less visible minority.

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  • mythagomythago Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    You'd pick the one that specifically suits your interests at that one given time? Or you would pick the official who was open to choosing the best position based on logic and informed rhetoric?

    "Rhetoric"? I don't vote for people based on how clever their debate tactics are.

    The Christian who says "My private religious beliefs do not entitle me to take a crap on civil liberties and the First Amendment" is a much more logical, informed candidate than the atheist who blathers on about Natural Law and Evolution Hate Fags.

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  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Fighting the War on String Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I fear you are in a critical minority on this one - the book of mormon was pretty well received afaik

    saw it and it made me laugh harder than pretty much anything I've seen

    it was pretty good and it's gotten universally good reviews

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  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    mythago wrote: »
    "Rhetoric"? I don't vote for people based on how clever their debate tactics are.

    The Christian who says "My private religious beliefs do not entitle me to take a crap on civil liberties and the First Amendment" is a much more logical, informed candidate than the atheist who blathers on about Natural Law and Evolution Hate Fags.
    You said atheist libertarian. I'm no sure that isn't an oxymoron, since libertarianism today seems much more like a system of belief than anything else. Technically it's correct in that I haven't ever heard anyone refer to the great and glorious Free Market as an actual god; they just couch it in analogies that other religions use to describe god(s).

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  • TaramoorTaramoor Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    mythago wrote: »
    "Rhetoric"? I don't vote for people based on how clever their debate tactics are.

    The Christian who says "My private religious beliefs do not entitle me to take a crap on civil liberties and the First Amendment" is a much more logical, informed candidate than the atheist who blathers on about Natural Law and Evolution Hate Fags.
    You said atheist libertarian. I'm no sure that isn't an oxymoron, since libertarianism today seems much more like a system of belief than anything else. Technically it's correct in that I haven't ever heard anyone refer to the great and glorious Free Market as an actual god; they just couch it in analogies that other religions use to describe god(s).

    Anyone else remember when the market was crashing in 2008?

    bullprayer2.jpg

    That's the Bowling Green Bull on Wall Street.

    The video still makes me laugh/die a little.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuSDQzJDB80

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    it's not like praying to a golden bull will actually DO anything tangential, be it positive or negative. so it's not that much more silly.

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  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Hey, so this actually still isn't a religion thread.

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  • AtomikaAtomika genius of the restoration Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    mythago wrote: »
    You'd pick the one that specifically suits your interests at that one given time? Or you would pick the official who was open to choosing the best position based on logic and informed rhetoric?

    "Rhetoric"? I don't vote for people based on how clever their debate tactics are.

    The Christian who says "My private religious beliefs do not entitle me to take a crap on civil liberties and the First Amendment" is a much more logical, informed candidate than the atheist who blathers on about Natural Law and Evolution Hate Fags.

    First of all, you originally said "atheist libertarian," I think. The atheist part precludes them from being bigoted on religious grounds, and if they actually were an honest libertarian, they'd be all for gay rights. Libertarians' raison d'tre is personal liberty. Sure, you might find a politician who calls themselves "libertarian" and is actually something else, like Ron Paul, who is about as libertarian as I am Martian, but if we're just going by your own terminology, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

    Libertarians, by the tenets of objectivism, are all about gay rights.


    And please, if you could, find me a logical atheist open to rational argument that is steadfast in his/her opposition to gay rights.

  • Jolt ColaJolt Cola Registered User
    edited May 2011
    Hey, so this actually still isn't a religion thread.

    Funny how this shows up in every thread that makes religion look even tangentially negative.
    Religion was not to blame here. Religion is never to blame for anything. It is always something else. If another motive cannot be found, either equivocate endlessly or pin it on something vague and superficially profound that makes it everyone's fault, like "human nature". Bottom line: exonerate religion at all costs.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    That's because no one wants to see yet another thread derailed and/or locked because people can't not argue endlessly about religion.

  • 21stCentury21stCentury *~ Have a Magical day ~* Purveyor of Pixelly PalsRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Jolt Cola wrote: »
    Hey, so this actually still isn't a religion thread.

    Funny how this shows up in every thread that makes religion look even tangentially negative.
    Religion was not to blame here. Religion is never to blame for anything. It is always something else. If another motive cannot be found, either equivocate endlessly or pin it on something vague and superficially profound that makes it everyone's fault, like "human nature". Bottom line: exonerate religion at all costs.

    To answer your quote, in the hopes of preventing derails using it in other threads, it's because Religion is a tool. People blaming religion for religious bigotry is like people blaming guns for shootings. So yes, "exonerate religion at all costs" because blaming RELIGION is stupid. You don't put a gun on trial for murder, you put the guy who held the gun and pulled the trigger.

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  • ChillyWillyChillyWilly Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Jolt Cola wrote: »
    Hey, so this actually still isn't a religion thread.

    Funny how this shows up in every thread that makes religion look even tangentially negative.
    Religion was not to blame here. Religion is never to blame for anything. It is always something else. If another motive cannot be found, either equivocate endlessly or pin it on something vague and superficially profound that makes it everyone's fault, like "human nature". Bottom line: exonerate religion at all costs.

    That's pretty interesting.

    Maybe you should make a thread about it.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    To answer your quote, in the hopes of preventing derails using it in other threads, it's because Religion is a tool.

    Yes, no idea has ever caused any human being to act.
    Libertarians, by the tenets of objectivism, are all about gay rights.


    And please, if you could, find me a logical atheist open to rational argument that is steadfast in his/her opposition to gay rights.

    I fear the "open to rational argument" part might preclude finding a chap of this description - would you be open to atheist lunatics instead?

    Edit: I can't find any links but I remember some rather unpleasant, but atheist, "white power" groups were also very anti-gay.

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  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    HEY GAY RIGHTS

    http://www.ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id=8455&MediaType=1&Category=26

    Bill Haslam Signs Law Banning Gay Protections

  • 21stCentury21stCentury *~ Have a Magical day ~* Purveyor of Pixelly PalsRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    HEY GAY RIGHTS

    http://www.ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id=8455&MediaType=1&Category=26

    Bill Haslam Signs Law Banning Gay Protections

    Wait, I thought it was Democrats who were for more government meddling and more business regulations.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    That is pretty lame

    I thought this was going to be stopped?

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  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    That is pretty lame

    I thought this was going to be stopped?

    In Tennessee?

    ho ho ho no.

  • Jolt ColaJolt Cola Registered User
    edited May 2011
    Wait, I thought it was Democrats who were for more government meddling and more business regulations.

    Not as long as it's pandering to oh wait I'm not supposed to talk about that because it has nothing to do with this issue.

    Oh, and LOL:
    “It's not any kind of statement that those who are transgender or cross dress are sexual predators,” the group's president, David Fowler, said in defending the ad. “It's that sexual predators will know how to take advantage of those opportunities afforded by law when the distinctions begin to get blurred with respect [to] who's rightfully or not in a restroom.”

  • ChillyWillyChillyWilly Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    HEY GAY RIGHTS

    http://www.ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id=8455&MediaType=1&Category=26

    Bill Haslam Signs Law Banning Gay Protections

    Glad to see my state is continuing in it's amazingly ignorant goosery. :x

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  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    HEY GAY RIGHTS

    http://www.ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id=8455&MediaType=1&Category=26

    Bill Haslam Signs Law Banning Gay Protections

    Glad to see my state is continuing in it's amazingly ignorant goosery. :x


    Someone needs to make the rest of us look better.

  • Orochi_RockmanOrochi_Rockman __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2011
    Jolt Cola wrote: »
    Wait, I thought it was Democrats who were for more government meddling and more business regulations.

    Not as long as it's pandering to oh wait I'm not supposed to talk about that because it has nothing to do with this issue.

    Oh, and LOL:
    “It's not any kind of statement that those who are transgender or cross dress are sexual predators,” the group's president, David Fowler, said in defending the ad. “It's that sexual predators will know how to take advantage of those opportunities afforded by law when the distinctions begin to get blurred with respect [to] who's rightfully or not in a restroom.”

    Because like I said before, if a rapist wanted to enter a female restroom now, a magical forcefield would bounce them back.

    Oh yes, blurry distinctions, god forbid people legally recognized by their government to be female, use a female restroom.

  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Jolt Cola wrote: »
    Hey, so this actually still isn't a religion thread.

    Funny how this shows up in every thread that makes religion look even tangentially negative.
    Religion was not to blame here. Religion is never to blame for anything. It is always something else. If another motive cannot be found, either equivocate endlessly or pin it on something vague and superficially profound that makes it everyone's fault, like "human nature". Bottom line: exonerate religion at all costs.

    To answer your quote, in the hopes of preventing derails using it in other threads, it's because Religion is a tool. People blaming religion for religious bigotry is like people blaming guns for shootings. So yes, "exonerate religion at all costs" because blaming RELIGION is stupid. You don't put a gun on trial for murder, you put the guy who held the gun and pulled the trigger.

    You have an outsider perspective. Live in America for a while then tell us that religion is just a tool and not in fact a net-negative social phenomena that lives, breathes, and drives people in a way that a mere tool (like a hammer or shotgun does not).

    Now I'm not trying to derail the thread either, but there it is.

  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Now I'm not trying to derail the thread either, but there it is.


    You may not be trying to, but you are. So maybe don't?

  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    Now I'm not trying to derail the thread either, but there it is.


    You may not be trying to, but you are. So maybe don't?

    I'll be happy to drop the subject now.

  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Jolt Cola wrote: »
    Hey, so this actually still isn't a religion thread.

    Funny how this shows up in every thread that makes religion look even tangentially negative.
    Religion was not to blame here. Religion is never to blame for anything. It is always something else. If another motive cannot be found, either equivocate endlessly or pin it on something vague and superficially profound that makes it everyone's fault, like "human nature". Bottom line: exonerate religion at all costs.

    To answer your quote, in the hopes of preventing derails using it in other threads, it's because Religion is a tool. People blaming religion for religious bigotry is like people blaming guns for shootings. So yes, "exonerate religion at all costs" because blaming RELIGION is stupid. You don't put a gun on trial for murder, you put the guy who held the gun and pulled the trigger.

    You have an outsider perspective. Live in America for a while then tell us that religion is just a tool and not in fact a net-negative social phenomena that lives, breathes, and drives people in a way that a mere tool (like a hammer or shotgun does not).

    Now I'm not trying to derail the thread either, but there it is.

    Considering a major U.S. religion decided to actively encourage its members to strip the marriage rights of an entire group of people, your analogy falls short, because in this case the gun is sentient, like Skynet.

    Admittedly, as long as we can stay on topic regarding the convergence of religion and gay rights, there shouldn't be any problem in bringing up religion in a gay rights thread as long as it is relevant. I know we all like to rant and blow off steam here, but as long as we're directing our ire in this thread to specific actions religious groups take against gays, then I fail to see what the problem is other than people getting upset that religion is facing any criticism at all.

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  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Jolt Cola wrote: »
    Hey, so this actually still isn't a religion thread.

    Funny how this shows up in every thread that makes religion look even tangentially negative.
    Religion was not to blame here. Religion is never to blame for anything. It is always something else. If another motive cannot be found, either equivocate endlessly or pin it on something vague and superficially profound that makes it everyone's fault, like "human nature". Bottom line: exonerate religion at all costs.

    To answer your quote, in the hopes of preventing derails using it in other threads, it's because Religion is a tool. People blaming religion for religious bigotry is like people blaming guns for shootings. So yes, "exonerate religion at all costs" because blaming RELIGION is stupid. You don't put a gun on trial for murder, you put the guy who held the gun and pulled the trigger.

    A gun is a thing, religion is a collection of people.

    Oil companies are just a tool, it makes no sense to blame them for environmental damage caused by oil spills.
    Investment banks are just a tool, it makes no sense to blame them for the financial collapse.

    Beyond which in the US there is a non-trivial group of people who are actively motivated by religion into taking all sorts of regressive positions. The Mormons spent millions on Prop 8. Focus on the Family is a rabidly Christian organization.



    A Gay Rights thread without religion is like a [Climate Change] thread with no mention of energy companies.

  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Oil companies are just a tool, it makes no sense to blame them for environmental damage caused by oil spills.

    Are you being sarcastic here or are you drunk?

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Besides the whole "religion can't be blamed for anything" spiel is just standard nonsense that involves deferring a problem down an ever-lengthening chain of causation until it ends at something that isn't religious. It can be done to render any idea without explanatory power, and it's tedious.

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This discussion has been closed.