[Gay Rights] Scott Walker still trying to get fired.

Regina Fong

DoctorArch wrote: »

Regina Fong wrote: »

DoctorArch wrote: »

Forar wrote: »

I think it stemmed from an earlier period discussing how "tranny" was/is used as an epithet and that moved into a discussion on violence against transsexuals which led to DDV declaring that people who didn't intervene were essentially criminally negligent/complicit (I'm abbreviating here) which led to the tangent regarding doing something to help but it not being wrong to hesitate to put ones own safety or life on the line for a stranger, regardless of the circumstances.

I've always wondered if I'd rise to the occasion if I saw someone being victimized (regardless of how or why). I'm not MMA champion or packing heat, but at 6'3" I can strike an imposing figure when necessary. Luckily it hasn't really come up in the past decade, and the few times it has, most of them were at work where I had a crew backing me up.

As much as I sympathize with DDV's feelings on the matter, unless there is an established special duty (e.g.., contractual or familial) or you caused the incident, you never have a duty to assist someone in distress. Ever. There is this terrible example of when a man watched his friend rape and murder a young girl and did nothing to stop the killer from doing so, nor did he offer any encouragement or assistance. There wasn't a single criminal charge that could be levied against him, nor for that matter, any civil suit that would survive a summary judgment motion to dismiss.

That's what the court of public opinion is for. And as I recall it "convicted" that guy pretty thoroughly.

Here's the case if anyone's interested. But while David Cash (the Bad Samaritan in question) was publicly shunned at Berkeley, he now apparently has a high paying job working for an oil company. I won't share the link, because it provides all sorts of contact information for the guy so you can contact him to voice your "displeasure."

I knew I was thinking of the same case as you. Couldn't remember the names, but yes that was the case. I was living in the Bay Area at the time, and it was big news around here.

Unsurprising that such a person would end up in such an amoral industry.

Forar

In the weeks following Strohmeyer's arrest, Cash told the Los Angeles Times that he did not dwell on the murder of Sherrice Iverson. "I'm not going to get upset over somebody else's life. I just worry about myself first. I'm not going to lose sleep over somebody else's problems." He also told the newspaper that the publicity surrounding the case had made it easier for him to "score with women." Cash also told the Long Beach Press-Telegram: "I'm no idiot ... I'll get my money out of this."

Emphasis mine.

What. The. Fuck?

Regina Fong

Forar wrote: »

In the weeks following Strohmeyer's arrest, Cash told the Los Angeles Times that he did not dwell on the murder of Sherrice Iverson. "I'm not going to get upset over somebody else's life. I just worry about myself first. I'm not going to lose sleep over somebody else's problems." He also told the newspaper that the publicity surrounding the case had made it easier for him to "score with women." Cash also told the Long Beach Press-Telegram: "I'm no idiot ... I'll get my money out of this."

Emphasis mine.

What. The. Fuck?

Yeah, pretty much. Popular opinion at the time was that he is a terrible person.

Captain Carrot

EmperorSeth wrote: »

Wait, I thought the Seinfeld finale was based on a real-life law?

I think it's based on a related scenario: you can't be sued for offering help that ends up making it worse.

Forar

Captain Carrot wrote: »

EmperorSeth wrote: »

Wait, I thought the Seinfeld finale was based on a real-life law?

I think it's based on a related scenario: you can't be sued for offering help that ends up making it worse.

I haven't seen the episode in question, but if I'm reading this right, yeah, a lot of places have "Good samaritan laws" on the books where, if a person causes harm while acting in what they believe to be a good faith attempt to help someone, they aren't culpable. For example, apparently it's not uncommon to crack someone's ribs while performing CPR, which you wouldn't be held accountable for legally if you were attempting to save someones life by performing said CPR, and aren't accountable if they don't make it, barring extreme negligence (though I'm fuzzier on that; IANAL etc).

Turkey

I believe the ruling for CPR is that you are exempt from any legal trouble if you received CPR training in the past. My source is a first aid instructor from a course I took years ago, so I don't know if that's true in most places.

mrt144

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

KalTorak wrote: »

You need to be a special kind of asshole to get banned from Wal-mart.

Ugh, that guy is the worst.

I know, wearing fucking street clothes to congress. The temerity.

Thanatos

Captain Carrot wrote: »

EmperorSeth wrote: »

Wait, I thought the Seinfeld finale was based on a real-life law?

I think it's based on a related scenario: you can't be sued for offering help that ends up making it worse.

The French (and I'm sure other countries) have laws that make it illegal not to help someone who needs it. They prosecuted some of the tabloid photographers taking pictures of Princess Diana's car for violating them, afterwards.

On another note, this is why I laughed my ass off when two news choppers crashed into each other while trying to film the same car chase.

shryke

Turkey wrote: »

I believe the ruling for CPR is that you are exempt from any legal trouble if you received CPR training in the past. My source is a first aid instructor from a course I took years ago, so I don't know if that's true in most places.

Only if you claim some sort of expertise that you don't have or the like. So if you say "I know CPR, can I help you?" but you don't know CPR.

It's why if you are a medic or a lifeguard or something, you can't go around wearing your uniform off-duty since it presents the idea that you are trained and ready to act. And therefore, you are liable if you don't act or perform poorly.

This obviously changes from place to place. But generally, you only get in trouble when do something wrong that, according to what you've said or how you've presented yourself, you shouldn't be doing wrong.


And yeah, you will break someones ribs when doing CPR. Often, if you are doing it long enough, their chest feels mushy and incredibly disgusting.

shryke

Rorus Raz wrote: »

DirtyDirtyVagrant wrote: »

Cowardice. And apathy. In their purest forms. I can't fault somebody for not risking their skin, because as you said the situation could get ugly very fast...

But do you really think people in the crowd would actually step in and try to prevent me from ending the fight? There are no words to describe how fucking furious I would be if I were to witness that.

I mean that if one person goes from bystander to participant, it might spur others to do the same. I'm no expert on human behavior, but it's a possibility.

And yeah, if you're in the wrong area, it's definitely possible you could find yourself outnumbered. Especially if you're defending a transsexual. Call the cops, and hope the find ends quickly enough for you to maybe administer some first aid. It really depends on the situation.

And not to mention the possibility of weapons. Maybe in a 1on1, the asshole enjoys beating on defenseless transfolk. You don't know if he or she has a gun or knife should the situation turn against that person.

Generally. But at the same time, all the people not doing something spurs people to ... not do something.

It's the bystander effect. People will all stand around waiting for someone else to be the first to act. And generally, the more bystanders, the less likely they are to act.

It's like the Zebra crossing a river. They all mill about till someone gets pushed in.

Jacobkosh

Someone can start a new Gay Rights thread if there's relevant news to discuss.