For enc0re: TPM is Talking Points Memo, a news service started by Josh Marshall. It's a lot of crowd sourced news backed by hard reporting. It makes money based on being super reliable, though it is slanted towards liberalism both because the facts are and because Marshall himself is a liberal. It is not a blog.
They are considerably more reliable than CNN. Of course, a hamster running across a keyboard would be more reliable than CNN, so there's that.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
As far as I know, most places aren't closed on MLK day. Sure schools are closed so teachers have off. Federal Employess get off, but the place I work only closes for 6 holidays each year and then we've ended up closing for extre things like christmas eve when basically everyone is taking off anyway and there's not enough people coming in to keep the office open so it becomes a, "we're closed so you either take a vacation day and get paid or it's a day w/o pay".
I don't know that making election day the same as a minor holiday that no one gets off for to begin with really helps.
rockmonkey on
0
GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
Let's just go with the Australia model, only with soft enforcement via tax credits.
I'm an advocate of this. We need to get people involved in the process. It will have the added benefit of shooting all this Jim Crow malarky in the foot.
You say that with some authority, but I'm not aware of any Supreme Court decisions to that effect... and as we all know, something isn't unconstitutional until Justice Kennedy says it is.
Not aware of any SCOTUS cases saying that Voter ID laws are, in effect, a Poll Tax, or that the SCOTUS has never ruled that a poll tax is unconstitutional? 'Cause the latter's easy: Harper v Virginia Board of Elections. If the former, then, yeah, Voter ID laws have been being held up as A-OK from my understanding.
The poll tax thing is also banned by a constitutional amendment. The voter ID claim was what i was wondering about.
You say that with some authority, but I'm not aware of any Supreme Court decisions to that effect... and as we all know, something isn't unconstitutional until Justice Kennedy says it is.
Not aware of any SCOTUS cases saying that Voter ID laws are, in effect, a Poll Tax, or that the SCOTUS has never ruled that a poll tax is unconstitutional? 'Cause the latter's easy: Harper v Virginia Board of Elections. If the former, then, yeah, Voter ID laws have been being held up as A-OK from my understanding.
The poll tax thing is also banned by a constitutional amendment. The voter ID claim was what i was wondering about.
Voter ID laws tend to stand up unless the ID required costs money to the voter (making it a de facto poll tax), at least when heard by conservative judges.
You say that with some authority, but I'm not aware of any Supreme Court decisions to that effect... and as we all know, something isn't unconstitutional until Justice Kennedy says it is.
Not aware of any SCOTUS cases saying that Voter ID laws are, in effect, a Poll Tax, or that the SCOTUS has never ruled that a poll tax is unconstitutional? 'Cause the latter's easy: Harper v Virginia Board of Elections. If the former, then, yeah, Voter ID laws have been being held up as A-OK from my understanding.
Only when there is a free ID option.
Which is, of course, retarded because "free" here only really deals with "did the BMV* ask you for $X for your ID?" It ignores lost income from having to take time off work, income to get to and from the BMV, time lost providing/assisting your children, etc etc etc. Yay, for taking things as literally as possible!
You say that with some authority, but I'm not aware of any Supreme Court decisions to that effect... and as we all know, something isn't unconstitutional until Justice Kennedy says it is.
Not aware of any SCOTUS cases saying that Voter ID laws are, in effect, a Poll Tax, or that the SCOTUS has never ruled that a poll tax is unconstitutional? 'Cause the latter's easy: Harper v Virginia Board of Elections. If the former, then, yeah, Voter ID laws have been being held up as A-OK from my understanding.
Only when there is a free ID option.
Which is, of course, retarded because "free" here only really deals with "did the BMV* ask you for $X for your ID?" It ignores lost income from having to take time off work, income to get to and from the BMV, time lost providing/assisting your children, etc etc etc. Yay, for taking things as literally as possible!
* Or wherever one might get an ID in their state.
Look, I'm all in favor of being a friend to the working poor, but when we start claiming that "time lost providing/assisting your children" while filling out paperwork is a latter day poll tax, the very act of filling out your voter registration form or finding a No. 2 pencil so you can fill out an absentee ballot becomes a poll tax because you could be using that time helping your kid with his math homework or something.
The sort of people who go through life without a valid driver's license have enough shit on their plate that we don't have to confabulate new examples of how much things suck for them.
Which is, of course, retarded because "free" here only really deals with "did the BMV* ask you for $X for your ID?" It ignores lost income from having to take time off work, income to get to and from the BMV, time lost providing/assisting your children, etc etc etc. Yay, for taking things as literally as possible!
* Or wherever one might get an ID in their state.
Look, I'm all in favor of being a friend to the working poor, but when we start claiming that "time lost providing/assisting your children" while filling out paperwork is a latter day poll tax, the very act of filling out your voter registration form or finding a No. 2 pencil so you can fill out an absentee ballot becomes a poll tax because you could be using that time helping your kid with his math homework or something.
The sort of people who go through life without a valid driver's license have enough shit on their plate that we don't have to confabulate new examples of how much things suck for them.
I appreciate that you think that argument's a step too far. So the first two points are good enough then, and that last one just really rankled you?
Personally I think the problem is that an official ID costs money.
Well, some don't actually cost money; in that the agency giving you the ID doesn't charge you $X for the ID. Like in Indiana (since we're the chucklefucks doing this) the BMV has to give you an ID card for no charge.
[ed] Oh, new awesomeness, the BMV no longer prints and gives you your drivers license/ID at the branch anymore. You now have to wait 3-10 business days to get it mailed to you. So even better now. Can't get an ID reprinted/renewed/etc the day before election day.
Personally I think the problem is that an official ID costs money.
Well, some don't actually cost money; in that the agency giving you the ID doesn't charge you $X for the ID. Like in Indiana (since we're the chucklefucks doing this) the BMV has to give you an ID card for no charge.
Georgia also provides free "Voter ID cards" for people who don't have a DL. It sucks that it takes an extra step, but the law has held up so far.
Look, I'm all in favor of being a friend to the working poor, but when we start claiming that "time lost providing/assisting your children" while filling out paperwork is a latter day poll tax, the very act of filling out your voter registration form or finding a No. 2 pencil so you can fill out an absentee ballot becomes a poll tax because you could be using that time helping your kid with his math homework or something.
The sort of people who go through life without a valid driver's license have enough shit on their plate that we don't have to confabulate new examples of how much things suck for them.
Filling out a ballot or filling out voter registration forms takes about five minutes.
Getting something done at the DMV can easily take an entire (non-weekend) day.
You say that with some authority, but I'm not aware of any Supreme Court decisions to that effect... and as we all know, something isn't unconstitutional until Justice Kennedy says it is.
Not aware of any SCOTUS cases saying that Voter ID laws are, in effect, a Poll Tax, or that the SCOTUS has never ruled that a poll tax is unconstitutional? 'Cause the latter's easy: Harper v Virginia Board of Elections. If the former, then, yeah, Voter ID laws have been being held up as A-OK from my understanding.
Only when there is a free ID option.
Which is, of course, retarded because "free" here only really deals with "did the BMV* ask you for $X for your ID?" It ignores lost income from having to take time off work, income to get to and from the BMV, time lost providing/assisting your children, etc etc etc. Yay, for taking things as literally as possible!
* Or wherever one might get an ID in their state.
There is an opportunity cost for participation in the political life of the nation. Arguments like these against a valid ID to vote would be just as useful in countering complaints about stupid people who vote, but we all complain about ill-informed voters! Informing yourself about political issues costs you in time, usually more time than it takes to go to the DMV for an afternoon.
Anyhow, shouldn't we instead be arguing that a more streamlined process for getting a valid ID is the solution? Or proposing alternate solutions? It seems obvious that we have a public interest in asking voters to prove they are citizens.
There is an opportunity cost for participation in the political life of the nation. Arguments like these against a valid ID to vote would be just as useful in countering complaints about stupid people who vote, but we all complain about ill-informed voters! Informing yourself about political issues costs you in time, usually more time than it takes to go to the DMV for an afternoon.
Anyhow, shouldn't we instead be arguing that a more streamlined process for getting a valid ID is the solution? Or proposing alternate solutions? It seems obvious that we have a public interest in asking voters to prove they are citizens.
Yes, and much like getting a driver's license, you have to educate yourself on the issues between the hours of 9-5, M-F. Oh, wait...
It seems obvious that we have a public interest in asking voters to prove they are citizens.
Well yeah it would seem obvious, and on its face it doesn't seem a bad idea. But it is, one, because id laws hurt the poor, as you've seen argued here, and two, there really isn't any evidence that voter fraud that could be prevented via ID is a serious issue.
Just saw the Rachel Maddow clip on the Kansas GOP passing a law where you'll need a passport or birth certificate to register to vote. Take a wild guess who this is aimed at.
Even better, the guy who helped back this, Kris Kobach, was the same one involved with the Arizona immigration law.
Getting something done at the DMV can easily take an entire (non-weekend) day.
That's horrible. I don't think I've ever spent more than two hours in a DMV for any reason.
You probably have never lived in a state that decided to repeal its vehicle tab fees without replacing the revenue to the DMV either.
You are correct. Holy crap, that sounds like the worst idea.
Last year I had to mega-renew my drivers licence (needed a new picture), I was in and out in 20 minutes.
Where I live the voting process seems simple enough, you have a specific polling place that has your name. When you go there you sign for it. If your name is not there or you need to vote somewhere else, you get a provisional ballot and they investigate it later. So, by voting, you ensure someone isn't misusing your name to vote an extra time.
I don't really see the problem with this, all the paperwork gets saved and can be gone through to make sure each person voted once. The ballots are not linked to individual names but could be traced to a polling place to find if there were multiple instances of the same registered person voting.
This is San Francisco so every election cycle a few boxes end up getting dumped in the bay, but other then that they have it down pretty good.
The only way someone could take advantage of this without being caught would be to have records of who did and didn't vote in the past and guess who would not show up. Then have people claim to be those people at their polling places. I guess it could happen.
Void Slayer on
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
Getting something done at the DMV can easily take an entire (non-weekend) day.
Good Gods! I live in Michigan and have never waited for more than 10 minutes at the SoS. What could possibly take that long?
enc0re on
0
Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
Honestly, I think certain "election shenanigans" should be a capital offense, but this law isn't about curbing voter fraud, it's about making it harder for some non-republicans to vote.
It seems obvious that we have a public interest in asking voters to prove they are citizens.
Well yeah it would seem obvious, and on its face it doesn't seem a bad idea. But it is, one, because id laws hurt the poor, as you've seen argued here, and two, there really isn't any evidence that voter fraud that could be prevented via ID is a serious issue.
The voter suppression us just a side effect to the real idea here.
If there is a law to keep Illegal Immigrants from voting that means that illegal immigrants ARE voting.
Getting something done at the DMV can easily take an entire (non-weekend) day.
Good Gods! I live in Michigan and have never waited for more than 10 minutes at the SoS. What could possibly take that long?
4 workers, 40 clients.
Void Slayer on
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
It seems obvious that we have a public interest in asking voters to prove they are citizens.
Well yeah it would seem obvious, and on its face it doesn't seem a bad idea. But it is, one, because id laws hurt the poor, as you've seen argued here, and two, there really isn't any evidence that voter fraud that could be prevented via ID is a serious issue.
The voter suppression us just a side effect to the real idea here.
If there is a law to keep Illegal Immigrants from voting that means that illegal immigrants ARE voting.
It seems obvious that we have a public interest in asking voters to prove they are citizens.
Well yeah it would seem obvious, and on its face it doesn't seem a bad idea. But it is, one, because id laws hurt the poor, as you've seen argued here, and two, there really isn't any evidence that voter fraud that could be prevented via ID is a serious issue.
The voter suppression us just a side effect to the real idea here.
If there is a law to keep Illegal Immigrants from voting that means that illegal immigrants ARE voting.
Not neccessarily. Again the kind of fraud they are alledging has never happened to a signifigant extent. Its the tiger rock concept except their solution will only work to suppress voters, which is the point, they don't want the poor to vote because they don't tend to vote republican outside of trailer parks.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Posts
They are considerably more reliable than CNN. Of course, a hamster running across a keyboard would be more reliable than CNN, so there's that.
As far as I know, most places aren't closed on MLK day. Sure schools are closed so teachers have off. Federal Employess get off, but the place I work only closes for 6 holidays each year and then we've ended up closing for extre things like christmas eve when basically everyone is taking off anyway and there's not enough people coming in to keep the office open so it becomes a, "we're closed so you either take a vacation day and get paid or it's a day w/o pay".
I don't know that making election day the same as a minor holiday that no one gets off for to begin with really helps.
Middle of January. What's going to have the bigger effect on turnout: a day off to vote, or a whole bunch of snow on the ground?
Let's just go with the Australia model, only with soft enforcement via tax credits.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Don't worry about it guys, in the event of snow: Floridians will just vote twice.
We got you covered.
I'm an advocate of this. We need to get people involved in the process. It will have the added benefit of shooting all this Jim Crow malarky in the foot.
The poll tax thing is also banned by a constitutional amendment. The voter ID claim was what i was wondering about.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
* Or wherever one might get an ID in their state.
Look, I'm all in favor of being a friend to the working poor, but when we start claiming that "time lost providing/assisting your children" while filling out paperwork is a latter day poll tax, the very act of filling out your voter registration form or finding a No. 2 pencil so you can fill out an absentee ballot becomes a poll tax because you could be using that time helping your kid with his math homework or something.
The sort of people who go through life without a valid driver's license have enough shit on their plate that we don't have to confabulate new examples of how much things suck for them.
pleasepaypreacher.net
[ed] Oh, new awesomeness, the BMV no longer prints and gives you your drivers license/ID at the branch anymore. You now have to wait 3-10 business days to get it mailed to you. So even better now. Can't get an ID reprinted/renewed/etc the day before election day.
How illuminating. What states is it the BMV in? Is this some kind of east coast west coast thing?
pleasepaypreacher.net
Georgia also provides free "Voter ID cards" for people who don't have a DL. It sucks that it takes an extra step, but the law has held up so far.
Getting something done at the DMV can easily take an entire (non-weekend) day.
I wonder how many Bentley Continental GT's there are in Indiana.
There is an opportunity cost for participation in the political life of the nation. Arguments like these against a valid ID to vote would be just as useful in countering complaints about stupid people who vote, but we all complain about ill-informed voters! Informing yourself about political issues costs you in time, usually more time than it takes to go to the DMV for an afternoon.
Anyhow, shouldn't we instead be arguing that a more streamlined process for getting a valid ID is the solution? Or proposing alternate solutions? It seems obvious that we have a public interest in asking voters to prove they are citizens.
Georgia has the "Department of Driver Services". Always make me think I'm going to the dentist
That's horrible. I don't think I've ever spent more than two hours in a DMV for any reason.
Cite?
Well yeah it would seem obvious, and on its face it doesn't seem a bad idea. But it is, one, because id laws hurt the poor, as you've seen argued here, and two, there really isn't any evidence that voter fraud that could be prevented via ID is a serious issue.
...which is ridiculous for a variety of reasons.
You are correct. Holy crap, that sounds like the worst idea.
Last year I had to mega-renew my drivers licence (needed a new picture), I was in and out in 20 minutes.
East coast, Fuck yeah!
Washington State? I've never had serious issues.
I don't really see the problem with this, all the paperwork gets saved and can be gone through to make sure each person voted once. The ballots are not linked to individual names but could be traced to a polling place to find if there were multiple instances of the same registered person voting.
This is San Francisco so every election cycle a few boxes end up getting dumped in the bay, but other then that they have it down pretty good.
The only way someone could take advantage of this without being caught would be to have records of who did and didn't vote in the past and guess who would not show up. Then have people claim to be those people at their polling places. I guess it could happen.
Good Gods! I live in Michigan and have never waited for more than 10 minutes at the SoS. What could possibly take that long?
The voter suppression us just a side effect to the real idea here.
If there is a law to keep Illegal Immigrants from voting that means that illegal immigrants ARE voting.
4 workers, 40 clients.
that's some fairly dubious logic.
Not neccessarily. Again the kind of fraud they are alledging has never happened to a signifigant extent. Its the tiger rock concept except their solution will only work to suppress voters, which is the point, they don't want the poor to vote because they don't tend to vote republican outside of trailer parks.
pleasepaypreacher.net