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The Western Animation thread

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Posts

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote:
    Bagginses wrote:
    Green Arrow sold 62th in January. Below Redhood and the Outlaws. Starfire being closer to the show(and her original self) probably wouldn't have increased sales but it still should have been done. Because this Starfire sucks.

    Look, maybe there should be more kid friendly books but pointing to Detective Comics and saying that is the problem with the comics industry is like pointing to an R-rated movie and taking it as the standard of movies. Detective comics was never meant for kids and is written as such and that's ok. All comics don't need to be.

    To bad it also sucks.

    Yeah, Starfire is pretty bad. She's a "model" without any glamorous Paris fashion week issues and with very lax views on sex. It's like somebody wanted to write a prostitute with a heart of gold character without having to deal with the fallout of saying that a powerful woman (and role model) is a whore.

    Some people have tried to convince me that the latter issues completely turn her around as a character and reveal that her actions were the result of something being done to her.

    To which I reply who the hell cares? I'm sorry if you deliver a just terrible first issue I'm not obligated to give you more of my money to see where you are going.

    That seems a bit like saying that they've turned Superman into a villain after seeing a superdickery cover. I mean, you don't have to buy the issue, but you can't really say that they've messed up a character by having a hook based on her acting out of character (although not that far out of character, as the description I posted is of her pre-52 characterization).
    It's funny how DC is going all cutesy with its cartoons but then it has things like this in the comics:
    Spoiler:

    It's as if DC doesn't want to attract new readers.

    One-That is Detective Comics which was always planned to be one of the darker Batman book.

    And it's becoming way too dark, violent, and gory. It wasn't a huge stretch to go from Batman: TAS to Knightfall or No Man's Land but now the jump in violence and gore from Young Justice to the comics is way too much.
    Two-You really think that kids(7-12 lets say) are a common comic readership anymore. 'Cause let me tell you they arn't.

    That's the problem. If DC is going to make all these cartoons for kids of that age group then why not try to get all those viewers to start reading comics.

    Why is Detective Comics to gory? It's the R-rated Batman book. There are several much less gory Batman books.

    How do you suggest they get kids to read comics again?

    Quire.jpg
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote:
    Two-You really think that kids(7-12 lets say) are a common comic readership anymore. 'Cause let me tell you they arn't.

    Which is exactly the problem, and one the New 52 does fuck-all to solve.

    You think the problem is a lack of kid friendly books? There are several problems that keep kids away from comics but one of the biggest is that it's near impossible for a kid to get comics on a regular basis. I, for example spent my entire childhood trying to get comic books but there is no easy way. You can only get comics at Comic Book stores instead of in grocery stores and such and there arn't many comic book stores in the first place.

    Which happened because comic book publishers stopped trying to appeal to anyone but adult nerds.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote:
    cloudeagle wrote:
    Two-You really think that kids(7-12 lets say) are a common comic readership anymore. 'Cause let me tell you they arn't.

    Which is exactly the problem, and one the New 52 does fuck-all to solve.

    You think the problem is a lack of kid friendly books? There are several problems that keep kids away from comics but one of the biggest is that it's near impossible for a kid to get comics on a regular basis. I, for example spent my entire childhood trying to get comic books but there is no easy way. You can only get comics at Comic Book stores instead of in grocery stores and such and there arn't many comic book stores in the first place.

    Which happened because comic book publishers stopped trying to appeal to anyone but adult nerds.

    Yup and they need to stop that. But the suggestion seems to be "there should be no Adult books". Which I think misses the point.

    They need to stop objectifying women so girls will be more interested.

    They need to make it easier to get comics.

    They need to dis-spell the stereotype that comic continuities are are maze-like and difficult to jump in to.

    Quire.jpg
  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    cloudeagle wrote:
    cloudeagle wrote:
    Two-You really think that kids(7-12 lets say) are a common comic readership anymore. 'Cause let me tell you they arn't.

    Which is exactly the problem, and one the New 52 does fuck-all to solve.

    You think the problem is a lack of kid friendly books? There are several problems that keep kids away from comics but one of the biggest is that it's near impossible for a kid to get comics on a regular basis. I, for example spent my entire childhood trying to get comic books but there is no easy way. You can only get comics at Comic Book stores instead of in grocery stores and such and there arn't many comic book stores in the first place.

    Which happened because comic book publishers stopped trying to appeal to anyone but adult nerds.

    Yup and they need to stop that. But the suggestion seems to be "there should be no Adult books". Which I think misses the point.

    They need to stop objectifying women so girls will be more interested.

    They need to make it easier to get comics.

    They need to dis-spell the stereotype that comic continuities are are maze-like and difficult to jump in to.

    Of course, this doesn't need to be done for all books, or even any current books. It's not exactly smart business to try to expand the buying base by alienating the current clientelle and hoping someone else comes along to fill in.

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote:
    cloudeagle wrote:
    cloudeagle wrote:
    Two-You really think that kids(7-12 lets say) are a common comic readership anymore. 'Cause let me tell you they arn't.

    Which is exactly the problem, and one the New 52 does fuck-all to solve.

    You think the problem is a lack of kid friendly books? There are several problems that keep kids away from comics but one of the biggest is that it's near impossible for a kid to get comics on a regular basis. I, for example spent my entire childhood trying to get comic books but there is no easy way. You can only get comics at Comic Book stores instead of in grocery stores and such and there arn't many comic book stores in the first place.

    Which happened because comic book publishers stopped trying to appeal to anyone but adult nerds.

    Yup and they need to stop that. But the suggestion seems to be "there should be no Adult books". Which I think misses the point.

    They need to stop objectifying women so girls will be more interested.

    They need to make it easier to get comics.

    They need to dis-spell the stereotype that comic continuities are are maze-like and difficult to jump in to.

    Of course, this doesn't need to be done for all books, or even any current books. It's not exactly smart business to try to expand the buying base by alienating the current clientelle and hoping someone else comes along to fill in.

    Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying. The communication issue was probably my fault.

    Quire.jpg
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote:
    cloudeagle wrote:
    Two-You really think that kids(7-12 lets say) are a common comic readership anymore. 'Cause let me tell you they arn't.

    Which is exactly the problem, and one the New 52 does fuck-all to solve.

    You think the problem is a lack of kid friendly books? There are several problems that keep kids away from comics but one of the biggest is that it's near impossible for a kid to get comics on a regular basis. I, for example spent my entire childhood trying to get comic books but there is no easy way. You can only get comics at Comic Book stores instead of in grocery stores and such and there arn't many comic book stores in the first place.

    Which happened because comic book publishers stopped trying to appeal to anyone but adult nerds.

    Yup and they need to stop that. But the suggestion seems to be "there should be no Adult books". Which I think misses the point.

    They need to stop objectifying women so girls will be more interested.

    They need to make it easier to get comics.

    They need to dis-spell the stereotype that comic continuities are are maze-like and difficult to jump in to.

    Oh, sure. And making it easier to appeal to a younger audience accomplishes all that.

    And no, I never said there should be no adult books. Of course there should. It's just that the stated objective of the New 52 was to appeal to a larger audience, and in the long term, it hasn't done that and hasn't laid any long-term, carefully thought out groundwork to do that.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    frankenweenie-poster-1.jpg

    Oh my glob, you guys, so excited.

    For those not in the know, Frankenweenie was a short film that Tim Burton directed at the age of 26 for Disney. If you're a child of the 90s you've probably seen it on VHS somewhere and it's been on the DVD releases of The Nightmare Before Christmas as well.

    While it was originally a live-action film, Frankenweenie as a stop-motion animated film was greenlit alongside his Alice in Wonderland project a few years ago.

    oIi9lub.png
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  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    How did the animation quality go from this

    to something so much worse?

    easybossfight_zps4752c132.gif
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    Vastly cheaper budgets for TV. Same thing happened to Warner Bros. moving to doing Road Runner cartoons on TV in the 60s, Hanna-Barbara moving from lush theatrical Tom and Jerry shorts to, well, pretty much everything their company would ever make on TV, etc.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    Screw you, Al Brodax! You ruined Popeye!

    easybossfight_zps4752c132.gif
  • MrDapperMrDapper We're here. RUNRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    New Plastic Man cartoon, part of DC Nation.

    MrDapper on
  • FerquinFerquin Snorlax Renton, WA, USARegistered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Screw you, Al Brodax! You ruined Popeye!

    Agreed. I loved the old Charles Fleicher Popeye cartoons. Those newer ones are lame. It's reminiscent of how old-school pie-eyed Mickey Mouse changed into the lame version with smaller eyes and because more a regular suburban fellow instead of the scrappy, comically adventurous guy.

    Ironically, the last good representation of Popeye was the old live-action movie with Robin Williams in the early '80s. I don't even mind the musical aspect of it. It was a great take off from the original Segar comic strip.

    Ferquin N.C. Root
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Klyka wrote: »
    I just watched Justice League: Doom.

    It was pretty good and I LOVED having all the original JL voices back! And of course, Nathan Fillion as Green lantern does, as with anything he is involved in, an amazing job!

    It was kind of covering a lot of themes in the JL cartoons again, so that was a bit odd, but otherwise it's a fantastic movie. The animation and art is some of the best i've seen done by DC and lately it's been getting better and better and the characters are far better written then some of the earlier films. I especially like this lantern and flash.
    Spoiler:

    sig_zpsf0994cbd.jpg
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    MrDapper wrote: »
    New Plastic Man cartoon, part of DC Nation.


    Huh, it's not loading for some reason.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    Are people saying that the Flintstones is a bad show?

    steam_sig.png
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Are people saying that the Flintstones is a bad show?

    I don't think they were saying that it was a bad show, just that it was poorly animated compared to earlier animation.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote:
    cloudeagle wrote:
    Two-You really think that kids(7-12 lets say) are a common comic readership anymore. 'Cause let me tell you they arn't.

    Which is exactly the problem, and one the New 52 does fuck-all to solve.

    You think the problem is a lack of kid friendly books? There are several problems that keep kids away from comics but one of the biggest is that it's near impossible for a kid to get comics on a regular basis. I, for example spent my entire childhood trying to get comic books but there is no easy way. You can only get comics at Comic Book stores instead of in grocery stores and such and there arn't many comic book stores in the first place.

    Which happened because comic book publishers stopped trying to appeal to anyone but adult nerds.

    Yup and they need to stop that. But the suggestion seems to be "there should be no Adult books". Which I think misses the point.

    They need to stop objectifying women so girls will be more interested.

    They need to make it easier to get comics.

    They need to dis-spell the stereotype that comic continuities are are maze-like and difficult to jump in to.

    Of course, this doesn't need to be done for all books, or even any current books. It's not exactly smart business to try to expand the buying base by alienating the current clientelle and hoping someone else comes along to fill in.

    That isn't their goal. It's to keep the status quo in tact. The Big Two aren't interested in expanding to new readers and in some cases alienating any readers who didn't want the Silver Age back. Marvel breaking into the movie business and DC becoming DCE didn't change shit on this front.

  • MrDapperMrDapper We're here. RUNRegistered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    MrDapper wrote: »
    New Plastic Man cartoon, part of DC Nation.


    Huh, it's not loading for some reason.

    Fixed it.

  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    Ferquin wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Screw you, Al Brodax! You ruined Popeye!

    Agreed. I loved the old Charles Fleicher Popeye cartoons. Those newer ones are lame. It's reminiscent of how old-school pie-eyed Mickey Mouse changed into the lame version with smaller eyes and because more a regular suburban fellow instead of the scrappy, comically adventurous guy.

    After indulging in a bunch of classic Mickey Mouse cartoons back in 2010 because of a WDW trip & the release of Epic Mickey, I can't stand the non-pie-eyed, flesh-colored version of MM anymore. Classic or nuthin'.

    oIi9lub.png
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  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    Are people saying that the Flintstones is a bad show?
    "Boring" fits pretty well.

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote:
    cloudeagle wrote:
    Two-You really think that kids(7-12 lets say) are a common comic readership anymore. 'Cause let me tell you they arn't.

    Which is exactly the problem, and one the New 52 does fuck-all to solve.

    You think the problem is a lack of kid friendly books? There are several problems that keep kids away from comics but one of the biggest is that it's near impossible for a kid to get comics on a regular basis. I, for example spent my entire childhood trying to get comic books but there is no easy way. You can only get comics at Comic Book stores instead of in grocery stores and such and there arn't many comic book stores in the first place.

    Which happened because comic book publishers stopped trying to appeal to anyone but adult nerds.

    Yup and they need to stop that. But the suggestion seems to be "there should be no Adult books". Which I think misses the point.

    They need to stop objectifying women so girls will be more interested.

    They need to make it easier to get comics.

    They need to dis-spell the stereotype that comic continuities are are maze-like and difficult to jump in to.

    Of course, this doesn't need to be done for all books, or even any current books. It's not exactly smart business to try to expand the buying base by alienating the current clientelle and hoping someone else comes along to fill in.

    That isn't their goal. It's to keep the status quo in tact. The Big Two aren't interested in expanding to new readers and in some cases alienating any readers who didn't want the Silver Age back. Marvel breaking into the movie business and DC becoming DCE didn't change shit on this front.

    Uh no. The new 52's goal was that exactly and both companies have made attempts at getting new readers. On some levels they succeeded and on others they failed. Their promotion and most of their "Big Titles" have been well written and mostly open to new readers. I know a lot of people who joined in on new 52's Justice League and their favorite hero and just kept going.

    They made a ton of missteps like they way they have treated minor characters and female characters but the New 52 didn't break sales records by courting the geek crowd in absence of all others. It has been a flawed but good first step.

    Also who do you think is moving back towards the silver age?

    Quire.jpg
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    It's funny how DC is going all cutesy with its cartoons but then it has things like this in the comics:
    Spoiler:

    It's as if DC doesn't want to attract new readers.

    Thats because the Cartoons are produced by people that rein in the writers if they go of the deep end with violence and continuity porn. Standards and Practices are not always bad.

    Comics these days seem to be written by people that hate non-fans and have an inferiority complex to Alan Moore. The last part is understandable but man does it result in crappy writing.

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • AbsalonAbsalon Registered User regular
    Glal wrote:
    Are people saying that the Flintstones is a bad show?
    "Boring" fits pretty well.

    Yes. Thank you.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax Bondage Discipline Spider-Man Registered User regular
    Aren't most of DC "new" readers people who just stopped at some point anyways?

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    Absalon wrote: »
    Glal wrote:
    Are people saying that the Flintstones is a bad show?
    "Boring" fits pretty well.

    Yes. Thank you.

    Pretty much. I think the very best I could say about the Flintstones is that it's charming and creative at times. I can't really think of a time I've ever honestly laughed at a scene in that show.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus ha ha just kidding I'm Frog ManRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Aren't most of DC "new" readers people who just stopped at some point anyways?

    Mostly people who stopped buying comics after the 90s comics frenzy died down, yeah.

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    It's not embeddable, sadly, but Comic Book Resources have a clip of Young Justice doing very badly against Klarion the Witch Boy:

    http://video.comicbookresources.com/television-clips/exclusive-young-justice-clip-klarion-the-witch-boy-takes-on-yj-in-misplaced/

    Meanwhile, things are looking a little shaky for the Thundercats:
    Despite the lack of any kind of new product information for Bandai's ThunderCats toy line to come out of Toy Fair earlier this month, we have gotten an update from Warner Bros. this morning that new episodes of the animated series would still be returning to Cartoon Network at some point.

    They are unfortunately still not able or willing to say when we might see those new episodes. New episodes of the ThunderCats series haven't aired on Cartoon Network since the end of November 2011, so hopefully it is only a matter of time before we see something new.

    http://toynewsi.com/news.php?catid=291&itemid=18357

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • Good IdeaGood Idea Registered User
    So there's a full 2 minute scene from Pixar's Brave out:



    I remember the DVD commentary from The Incredibles, something about how just one scene with cape fabric would make the animators cry. Now they're doing kilts.

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Aren't most of DC "new" readers people who just stopped at some point anyways?

    The people I know who got in to comics with the 52 were young adults and teenagers who never got into comics. Many of them because they felt there was no place to start or that it was to "up-its-own-ass".

    Does anyone have any data on this?

    Quire.jpg
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus ha ha just kidding I'm Frog ManRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Aren't most of DC "new" readers people who just stopped at some point anyways?

    The people I know who got in to comics with the 52 were young adults and teenagers who never got into comics. Many of them because they felt there was no place to start or that it was to "up-its-own-ass".

    Does anyone have any data on this?

    http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/22113.html
    At the ComicsPro meeting in Dallas today DC Comics presented the results of an extensive survey of customers who purchased “New 52” titles during the first weeks of what was the comic industry phenomenon of 2011. Among the key findings of the survey was the fact the “New 52” titles appealed primarily to avid comic book fans, who represented 70% of the survey’s respondents and lapsed readers (more than 25% of in-store consumers were lapsed readers), while 5% were new to comics.

  • skeldareskeldare Time for adventure! Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Meanwhile, things are looking a little shaky for the Thundercats:
    Despite the lack of any kind of new product information for Bandai's ThunderCats toy line to come out of Toy Fair earlier this month, we have gotten an update from Warner Bros. this morning that new episodes of the animated series would still be returning to Cartoon Network at some point.

    They are unfortunately still not able or willing to say when we might see those new episodes. New episodes of the ThunderCats series haven't aired on Cartoon Network since the end of November 2011, so hopefully it is only a matter of time before we see something new.

    http://toynewsi.com/news.php?catid=291&itemid=18357

    This makes me sad. :( Why are action cartoons having such a hard time on CN?

    Wii U and 3DS Codes
    Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
    PM Me if you add me!
    Spoiler:
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    I got a kick out of seeing the crazy lil dance at 0:20

    easybossfight_zps4752c132.gif
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Uh no. The new 52's goal was that exactly and both companies have made attempts at getting new readers. On some levels they succeeded and on others they failed. Their promotion and most of their "Big Titles" have been well written and mostly open to new readers. I know a lot of people who joined in on new 52's Justice League and their favorite hero and just kept going.

    They didn't go far enough. Their goal may have been genuine but it was still small scale. They're still trying to appeal to collectors in the direct market, which is not nowhere near enough. Not with their resources.

    The goal to be the big dogs in the direct market is the status quo. Has been for decades. They even copied the Crisis relaunch formula, only they made it more confusing with continuity.

    DCE doing surveys prior to the relaunch was a good first step. They need to drop the standard industry protocols and do stuff like that IMO.
    They made a ton of missteps like they way they have treated minor characters and female characters but the New 52 didn't break sales records by courting the geek crowd in absence of all others. It has been a flawed but good first step.

    A first step that was far more flawed than it should have been. Considering how many experts DCE has on speed-dial and connections to WB animation they looked like amateurs. Sure they got a few hits and good executions but they should had a much better co-ordinated effort. So what if they succeeded temporarily in the direct market? They need to think beyond that to expand farthur where they are with courting average comic collectors.

    The fact they had so much problems with minority and female characters from the start is exactly what should been easily fixable. Another was spent more time establishing a history to the DCnU and not make it a partial reboot when a full reboot would have served better. A partial reboot confuses everyone needlessly.

    Considering how they fucked up Static it's amazing they had any successes at all, excluding Morrison & Johns' titles.
    Also who do you think is moving back towards the silver age?

    DC. Marvel slightly. Spider-man in particular.

    Harry Dresden on
  • Muse Among MenMuse Among Men Suburban Bunny Princess? Its time for a new shtick Registered User regular
    skeldare wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Meanwhile, things are looking a little shaky for the Thundercats:
    Despite the lack of any kind of new product information for Bandai's ThunderCats toy line to come out of Toy Fair earlier this month, we have gotten an update from Warner Bros. this morning that new episodes of the animated series would still be returning to Cartoon Network at some point.

    They are unfortunately still not able or willing to say when we might see those new episodes. New episodes of the ThunderCats series haven't aired on Cartoon Network since the end of November 2011, so hopefully it is only a matter of time before we see something new.

    http://toynewsi.com/news.php?catid=291&itemid=18357

    This makes me sad. :( Why are action cartoons having such a hard time on CN?

    nuhhhhh

    I like Thundercats! :(

  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    Oooh, I like that new Brave clip. Resold.

  • FerquinFerquin Snorlax Renton, WA, USARegistered User regular
    After indulging in a bunch of classic Mickey Mouse cartoons back in 2010 because of a WDW trip & the release of Epic Mickey, I can't stand the non-pie-eyed, flesh-colored version of MM anymore. Classic or nuthin'.

    *high five*

    Ferquin N.C. Root
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/22113.html
    At the ComicsPro meeting in Dallas today DC Comics presented the results of an extensive survey of customers who purchased “New 52” titles during the first weeks of what was the comic industry phenomenon of 2011. Among the key findings of the survey was the fact the “New 52” titles appealed primarily to avid comic book fans, who represented 70% of the survey’s respondents and lapsed readers (more than 25% of in-store consumers were lapsed readers), while 5% were new to comics.

    Erf. At the very least, that's a missed opportunity.

    I don't have any problems with the New 52 in theory, but its execution was rushed and sloppy as hell, especially considering DC kept waffling and contradicting itself about what got wiped and what didn't in the reboot up to the moment of release. I know we live in a "make profits nao!" world, but here's what they should have done to succeeded:

    --A year before the reboot AT LEAST, do some serious marketing surveys about what non-comic readers want. Find out what they like, and what's driving them away. Get a good idea of what kind of atmosphere would help them meet their goal.
    --Sit down with a braintrust of writers and, over the course of a few months, create the details of the new universe and seriously think things through so there aren't many contradictions or requirements that you know decades of comics history to understand what the hell is going on. Not only do you want to make things less confusing for new readers, but you want to annoy current readers, who are already dealing with a massive upheaval of their favorite characters, as little as possible. There's no point in changing the details of, say, Hawkman, if the change is only going to have him remain a confusing mess (as is apparently the case).
    --Require the creative team behind each title come up with detailed outlines of what they plan to do for at least the first six issues, and work with them to make sure their plans fit the mandates of being as appealing to new readers as possible. "Wait, you want to make Starfire a soulless sex toy? Um, no. Try again."
    --Set up the reboot with something that really gives a hint of big changes to come. Flashpoint wasn't really it; it just seemed like yet another roller-coaster "hey, here's an alternate earth!" that ended in a reboot for no apparent reason.

    Oh, another thing that makes me think DC is doing things incredibly slapdash -- you remember how they announced they're introducing a new logo for the comics in a couple of months? Well, guess which logo the DC Nation block will use? That's right, the old one. There's absolutely no reason that shit couldn't have been coordinated.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • AtomikaAtomika genius of the restoration Registered User regular
    I never could figure out why the idea of rebooting a continuity would somehow bring in droves of new readership.

    People who aren't reading comics aren't worried about continuity. There's not a soul on this message board that got into a mainstream title when it was new. Hell, there's probably not a single poster here that was even alive before the invention of Wolverine, let alone the X-Men, Spider-Man, and the Fantastic Four, and for fucks sake no one before the invention of Superman or Batman.

    People who read comics were drawn to comics because of the content. The continuity was a world to be explored through back-issues and storylines, not a hurdle to understanding and enjoyment. Who watched A New Hope for the first time and went, "Clone Wars? What the fuck? You mean shit happened in this universe before the events of this film? Man, fuck this. I'm out?" Delving into these histories has never been easier than today with the advent of the internet, with Wikipedia that can sum up a publisher's continuity in just a few pages, and iPad apps that allow access to years of back issues.


    This is like trying to get new customers at your restaurant by printing your menus in a different color. You're still offering the same selections cooked the same way.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Bagginses wrote:
    Green Arrow sold 62th in January. Below Redhood and the Outlaws. Starfire being closer to the show(and her original self) probably wouldn't have increased sales but it still should have been done. Because this Starfire sucks.

    Look, maybe there should be more kid friendly books but pointing to Detective Comics and saying that is the problem with the comics industry is like pointing to an R-rated movie and taking it as the standard of movies. Detective comics was never meant for kids and is written as such and that's ok. All comics don't need to be.

    To bad it also sucks.

    Yeah, Starfire is pretty bad. She's a "model" without any glamorous Paris fashion week issues and with very lax views on sex. It's like somebody wanted to write a prostitute with a heart of gold character without having to deal with the fallout of saying that a powerful woman (and role model) is a whore.

    Some people have tried to convince me that the latter issues completely turn her around as a character and reveal that her actions were the result of something being done to her.

    To which I reply who the hell cares? I'm sorry if you deliver a just terrible first issue I'm not obligated to give you more of my money to see where you are going.

    Which only makes Roy and Jason's actions worse by exploiting her for sex. Our heroes, ladies and gentlemen!

    Harry Dresden on
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    I never could figure out why the idea of rebooting a continuity would somehow bring in droves of new readership.

    People who aren't reading comics aren't worried about continuity. There's not a soul on this message board that got into a mainstream title when it was new. Hell, there's probably not a single poster here that was even alive before the invention of Wolverine, let alone the X-Men, Spider-Man, and the Fantastic Four, and for fucks sake no one before the invention of Superman or Batman.

    People who read comics were drawn to comics because of the content. The continuity was a world to be explored through back-issues and storylines, not a hurdle to understanding and enjoyment. Who watched A New Hope for the first time and went, "Clone Wars? What the fuck? You mean shit happened in this universe before the events of this film? Man, fuck this. I'm out?" Delving into these histories has never been easier than today with the advent of the internet, with Wikipedia that can sum up a publisher's continuity in just a few pages, and iPad apps that allow access to years of back issues.


    This is like trying to get new customers at your restaurant by printing your menus in a different color. You're still offering the same selections cooked the same way.

    It's to get new readers aboard so they don't have to bother reading any material past the new #1's. It's a good idea when done right.

    Star Wars continuity is a nightmare but it's simple compared to the DCU. At least they gave the fans a guideline for how their continuity works. With the new DCnU you have to fill in the blanks yourself. Spider-man post-OMD has the same problems with continuity.

    Tv, cartoon and tv series continuity is generally easier to understand even for big franchises then comic continuity. They aren't tied to a multi-series universe in their medium which is managed by numerous create teams. That can build up continuity into a mess quick. The only thing which comes close are soap operas.

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