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[WOW] [CHAT] thread. 4.2 on the PTR, time to chuck woodland animals.

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Posts

  • belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    well, since wow is basically EQ done right... Yes, it certainly is.

  • DacDac Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    well, since wow is basically EQ done right... Yes, it certainly is.

    This is silly.

    Of all the MMO experiments in the 90's, EQ was the one most responsible for establishing the basic framework of modern day MMOs. However, saying that WoW is EQ "done right" is like saying that the 2011 Jaguar is the Model T Ford "done right"; they share elements - enough to make them both cars - but comparing them is ludicrous.

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  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I think comparing WoW to a Jaguar is pretty ludicrous, personally :)

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    That kind of reasoning also inches dangerously close to "can't do any better than what WoW is doing now," which is wrongthink.

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    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
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  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I think comparing WoW to a Jaguar is pretty ludicrous, personally :)

    WoW and Jaguars both kill.

    Similiar enough.

    At the end of the day all mmos will share one aspect, the need to take your hard earned money.

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  • tarnoktarnok Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    What bothers me about this line of thought is the implication that since WoW is better than EQ we shouldn't be complaining about WoW. A tough steak is better than dogfood, but that doesn't mean I should accept it gratefully.

    Unless a game is universally accepted to be perfect in every way everyone has a right to suggest changes to it and no one should expect people to ignore its flaws because it's better than what we had before.

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  • AriviaArivia Registered User
    edited May 2011
    I like my dogfood thank you very much.

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  • belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Dac wrote: »
    well, since wow is basically EQ done right... Yes, it certainly is.

    This is silly.

    Of all the MMO experiments in the 90's, EQ was the one most responsible for establishing the basic framework of modern day MMOs. However, saying that WoW is EQ "done right" is like saying that the 2011 Jaguar is the Model T Ford "done right"; they share elements - enough to make them both cars - but comparing them is ludicrous.

    You're quoting my entire post but not the context of what I'm saying. People are complaining about WoW's crafting system, which then dredges up comments about EQ's crafting system. Forty makes the backhanded comment that comparing WoW to EQ isn't "worthwhile," which I disagree with.

    EQ was a groundbreaking game at the time of it's release but there were so many things I hated about it, that I couldn't even make it to level cap to enjoy the "end game." To me, WoW took everything that was great about EQ, and did away with enough of the "Bad" stuff to make the game enjoyable to me.

    Your analogy is bad. Wow is not a 2011 jaguar. If EQ is the model T, then WoW is the Oldsmobile, the first mass produced car with an automatic transmition, it took a great idea and made it easier and more accessible to "the masses".

    They're very similar games. Classes, groups, raids, leveling, action bars... I mean, Some of the mechanics may be different, but WoW looked just like EQ when I started playing back in 04.

    And no one's saying that WoW's without faults. It's just that in context of the 6+ years, some of the complaints coming out now seem a bit silly to those of us playing the game for a while.

  • DacDac Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Dac wrote: »
    well, since wow is basically EQ done right... Yes, it certainly is.

    This is silly.

    Of all the MMO experiments in the 90's, EQ was the one most responsible for establishing the basic framework of modern day MMOs. However, saying that WoW is EQ "done right" is like saying that the 2011 Jaguar is the Model T Ford "done right"; they share elements - enough to make them both cars - but comparing them is ludicrous.

    You're quoting my entire post but not the context of what I'm saying. People are complaining about WoW's crafting system, which then dredges up comments about EQ's crafting system. Forty makes the backhanded comment that comparing WoW to EQ isn't "worthwhile," which I disagree with.

    Yeah, and I'm saying that, IMO, you're wrong. For background, I've played EQ and WoW extensively - EQ for ~3 years from release and WoW since the release of Burning Crusade. They're the only MMOs I've really "stuck with" over the years. You cannot compare them in any meaningful way. Even WoW at its buggiest and most annoying was worlds away from Norrath's best.

    As for the comparison to Jaguars that other people are bringing up, the point was more that both cars are built on the same IDEA. I was illustrating how, despite that similarity, comparing them is silly. It wasn't to say that WoW is the "best MMO ever," or that it has no room for improvement. (I literally don't get how people could think I was saying that unless they think that the current Jaguar is the best car on the planet.)

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  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Yeah, and I'm saying that, IMO, you're wrong. For background, I've played EQ and WoW extensively - EQ for ~3 years from release and WoW since the release of Burning Crusade. They're the only MMOs I've really "stuck with" over the years. You cannot compare them in any meaningful way. Even WoW at its buggiest and most annoying was worlds away from Norrath's best.

    Well yeah the next generation better be leaps and bounds above the one preceding it. EQ was the best of its time bar none. Any discussion relating the two it needs to take the time in prosective. EQ was worlds away from anything that was done at the time and prior.

    EQs system may have been obtuse and "hate the player" but you know what? So was the rest of the game. Its not like the crafting system was the only thing that punished you in that game. Why are we even comparing the two. I have had fun in WoW. But nothing compared to my first 3 years in EQ.


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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Oh hey its argument time again I see.

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  • TylanthusTylanthus Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Straw man arguments aside... EQ and WoW are a lot closer than a Model T and a modern Jaguar. Maybe more like a 1997 Camry and a 2005 Camry.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    They're very similar games. Classes, groups, raids, leveling, action bars...
    There are a shitload of similar games if you're going by this broad of criteria, but the main idea is that it's pointless to compare anything to EQ in 2011. EQ was a masochistic "game" and damn near anything will look favorable when compared to it.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • DacDac Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    forty wrote: »
    They're very similar games. Classes, groups, raids, leveling, action bars...
    There are a shitload of similar games if you're going by this broad of criteria, but the main idea is that it's pointless to compare anything to EQ in 2011. EQ was a masochistic "game" and damn near anything will look favorable when compared to it.

    Thiiiiis.

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  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I like that you put game in quotes. People did actually have a lot of fun playing EQ, punishing design or not.

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  • PoketpixiePoketpixie Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I don't think comparisons are ludicrous. A game doesn't have to be better to serve as inspiration or provide lessons on what works or doesn't work. Some games absolutely suck but they have this one mechanic that's really interesting that could be polished up and used in another game. EQ is the forerunner and served as inspiration for WoW. It deserves at least a nod.

    I'll also acknowledge that WoW's crafting system is flawed and kind of bland but I've put up with a lot worse so it doesn't bother me much. A total revamp would be nice if they can come up with some interesting new mechanics but I won't lose any sleep if they don't.

    I'm rather ambivalent about the whole thing honestly.

  • DrHookensteinDrHookenstein Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    So, does the fact that the Tier 12 set bonuses are different now reflect a change following public outcry? ... or just that the old sets in the test realm patch had not been updated at the time of the test patch release?

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Probably in response to testing more than anything. People speculated that the chainheal bonus (for example) would wind up being pretty useless, and it looks like that turned out to be the case

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  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Probably in response to testing more than anything. People speculated that the chainheal bonus (for example) would wind up being pretty useless, and it looks like that turned out to be the case

    Yeah also the chain heal bonus would only return a good deal of value in 25 mans and not much at all in 10 mans.

    I think 4.2 patch is a long ways away as there are fundamental balance issues they are struggling with right now for clases in a pve setting.

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  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I wonder how many major content patches this expansion will get. Wasn't there supposed to be another Vashjir 5-man that got delayed from release? Plus continuing the plot thread from the existing underwater 5-man.
    I also see them doing something with Kezan (or what's left of it) and Gilneas at some point.

    Edit: New thread?

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    There's another instance portal down there that you'd think will get used at some point.

    I am hoping for an ozumat raid at some point

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    if the rapture don't come cousin, then pass the guns
    I'll burn'em for the return of my investment funds
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    So, does the fact that the Tier 12 set bonuses are different now reflect a change following public outcry? ... or just that the old sets in the test realm patch had not been updated at the time of the test patch release?
    Well, considering the disc/holy priest 4-piece bonus was just trollface.jpg and had a 0% chance of going live like that, I would suspect the first set bonuses we saw that changed were largely placeholders so that there was something there. But likely many of these things were intended to be changed in time. Some of the ones that went from "this seems interesting or decent" to "this is different and also seems interesting or decent" might have been based more on feedback/testing.
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    I think 4.2 patch is a long ways away as there are fundamental balance issues they are struggling with right now for clases in a pve setting.
    Such as? I mean that's no different really than the state both 4.0 (and Cata itself) and 4.1 went live with.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    forty wrote: »
    So, does the fact that the Tier 12 set bonuses are different now reflect a change following public outcry? ... or just that the old sets in the test realm patch had not been updated at the time of the test patch release?
    Well, considering the disc/holy priest 4-piece bonus was just trollface.jpg and had a 0% chance of going live like that, I would suspect the first set bonuses we saw that changed were largely placeholders so that there was something there. But likely many of these things were intended to be changed in time. Some of the ones that went from "this seems interesting or decent" to "this is different and also seems interesting or decent" might have been based more on feedback/testing.
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    I think 4.2 patch is a long ways away as there are fundamental balance issues they are struggling with right now for clases in a pve setting.
    Such as? I mean that's no different really than the state both 4.0 (and Cata itself) and 4.1 went live with.

    I mean it sounds like the designers are having a hard time balancing the higher ilevel gear with abilities. The post about mastery becoming soft capped on mmo-champion is in that vein.

    The justification the designers used for the pally spell increase also strikes me as odd because they talk about it in present tense, i.e. pallys are ending fights with too much mana now, as opposed to future raid content, but other changes seem to reflect accomodations for 4.2.

    So, I am not sure if they would push the patch out with issues like a mastery softcap in place.

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  • AriviaArivia Registered User
    edited May 2011
    THIS POST DID NOT HAPPEN

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