French Burqa Ban

DarkCrawler

The leaps of logic people make here to justify banning the right to wear what you want is crazy here. That, and making the same error that so many people that they all would deride otherwise make constantly. Attacking some stupid meaningless thing caused by problem instead of the problem itself:

Muslim men force women to wear burqa -> LETS BAN THE BURQA!

Terrible conditions lead to drug use -> LETS BAN DRUGS!

It's the exact same logic fail retarded conservative lawmakers employ on a constant basis and the hypocrisy here is so pathetic. I'm not a fan of religion but I won't sacrifice my beliefs about personal freedoms to hand out a defeat to it so I can feel better about myself.

hanskey

Here's the thing about the French law that keeps the discussions going.

It's exceedingly clever religious oppression, because it is couched in terms that will win over us liberal bleeding-hearts who normally care a great deal about human rights. If they didn't try to pretend they were doing women a favor, then we would all be able to recognize that this is a load of unacceptable bullshit that we would never allow to go on in our own countries.

For example, if this law banned praying to Mecca, then nearly universal outcry against the French would be heard.

However, let's be honest: there aren't a lot of people willing to stand up for the rights of brown ladies, in any country, especially when "it's for their own good".

Yar

hanskey wrote: »

Here's the thing about the French law that keeps the discussions going.

It's exceedingly clever religious oppression, because it is couched in terms that will win over us liberal bleeding-hearts who normally care a great deal about human rights. If they didn't try to pretend they were doing women a favor, then we would all be able to recognize that this is a load of unacceptable bullshit that we would never allow to go on in our own countries. For example, if this law banned praying to Mecca, then nearly universal outcry againt the French would be heard, but let's be honest: there aren't alot of people willing to stand up for the rights of brown ladies, in any country.

Part of the sad irony I'm seeing is the rather low opinion of Muslim women one must have in order to make the sort of arguments being made here. They are adult humans, after all, and exist in a thiving culture. Their motivations are probably more complicated and less coerced than "bad man make me do it, wah wah, please help me, enlightened white people."

hanskey

I totally agree with what you are saying.

Just to be clear: I'm completely AGAINST telling Muslim's (male or female), or any other religious group how to observe their religious obligations. However, there are some reasonable limits to this that I can accept. The only exceptions I can think of as allowable to this rule of thumb is if the religious obligations involve killing people or hurting people, although even hurting people may be allowed if the harm is allowed by the victim without coercion (ex: tribal tattoos of the Polynesian's are probably fine). Harm done to coerced people is obviously not acceptable.

In many ways, this law can be seen as a continuation of the colonial overlord mindset that the French were gifted with by centuries of being a colonial empire.

It's really pretty sad that they continue to oppress the same groups and don't even recognize what they are doing and how wrong it is.

I say let people decide for themselves how to behave and if anyone brown or white or other violates legitimate laws, like homicide or assault, then they should be fully prosecuted. However, as a general rule I think people should practice their religions as they desire, without special favoritism for a particular religion.

I choose none for myself and think much of religion is useless, but I will never think I have the right to force someone to act as though my religious beliefs are more important than theirs, as France has done.