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Good turn-based strategy with fantasy theme?

streeverstreever Registered User regular
edited April 2011 in Games and Technology
Hi folks,

I've just tried out Battle for Wesnorth--I enjoyed it, but it wasn't quite what I was looking for. (I was annoyed at how ranged units for instance must be in melee range to attack... I mean, what is the point of giving me a cleric who can kill undead but he has like 5 hp and the undead can kill him in one round on the easy level for beginners?)

Any suggestions for really good RTS that have a more medieval style? I'm looking for something extremely tactical, with flanking and terrain and positioning. I don't care if it has magic or not (I'd prefer something which is more mundane than magic actually, but whatever).

I don't care about multi-player--am interested in a solid single player experience.

Thanks in advance.

streever on
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Posts

  • TaramoorTaramoor Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    streever wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    I've just tried out Battle for Wesnorth--I enjoyed it, but it wasn't quite what I was looking for. (I was annoyed at how ranged units for instance must be in melee range to attack... I mean, what is the point of giving me a cleric who can kill undead but he has like 5 hp and the undead can kill him in one round on the easy level for beginners?)

    Any suggestions for really good RTS that have a more medieval style? I'm looking for something extremely tactical, with flanking and terrain and positioning. I don't care if it has magic or not (I'd prefer something which is more mundane than magic actually, but whatever).

    I don't care about multi-player--am interested in a solid single player experience.

    Thanks in advance.

    PC or Console?

  • ZxerolZxerol The fullest, most luscious beard. Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Err, RTS, turn-based, or strategy in general? I ask because Wesnoth isn't real-time at all and you're probably getting the terminology mixed-up.

  • TaramoorTaramoor Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Zxerol wrote: »
    Err, RTS, turn-based, or strategy in general? I ask because Wesnoth isn't real-time at all and you're probably getting the terminology mixed-up.

    Also this.

    A narrower scope is always good because I was just going to toss Fire Emblem: Inset Subtitle Here out into the aether and go about my day. But of course it's not an RTS.

    Warcraft III is the most medieval of the RTSes.

  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Warcraft III is the most medieval of the RTSes.
    Off-topic, but Age of Empires would like to have a word with you. "Wololo!"

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  • VoroVoro Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I would wager that Stronghold is significantly more medieval on the RTS front.

    As far as turn-based games, you won't have as many options on the PC. There's always the Heroes of Might & Magic series along with the Warlords series, but I would hardly consider the combat even remotely tactical for either. If it has to be PC, then the old SSI Gold Box games might work.

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  • PMAversPMAvers You wouldn't have heard of it, anyway...Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I guess it really depends on what you're looking for.

    So I'm just going to throw out my usual suggestion of Myth II, since that fits the whole "flanking, positioning, terrain" criteria to a T. It's not exactly new, but it's still awesome.

    For something more recent, maybe one of the Total War games? Havn't played them myself, but the description sounds like it might be up your alley.

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  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Oooh, sorry, yea, I meant turn-based. Let me change the thread title.

    I want something set in old time with tactics. I do use the PC.

    What system has a lot of these games? I always figured the PC would have everything!

  • BarrabasBarrabas Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I don't know if it's what you're really looking for, but King's Bounty: The Legend is a fantastic game.

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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    So, something like Battle for Wesnoth, but without some of its annoying idiosyncracies? And something less fantasy and more medieval? The one that I can think of, off the top of my head, is Fantasy General, but it's a really old game (and doesn't fit the "less fantasy" criteria).

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    If you have Medieval 2: Total War, there's The Third Age fan conversion that turns it into a pretty good Lord of the Rings game.

    EDIT: Ah, you want TBSes.

    In which case, Civ IV and the Fall from Heaven mod is awesome.

    King's Bounty is a game in the grand tradition of Heroes of Might and Magic, most of which are still pretty good, I hear.

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  • ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    streever, you want to check Disciples III.

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  • ZxerolZxerol The fullest, most luscious beard. Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Didn't Disciples III blow? (Never actually played it.) Nevertheless, I know II is boss.

  • TaramoorTaramoor Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    My favorite Turn-Based Strategy games will always be the Fire Emblem titles, but I'm not sure that's what you're looking for. I suppose you could call them Squad-based instead, and they're also only on Nintendo systems.

    Something more akin to Civ IV would probably be your best bet, or see what old titles are wandering around GOG.com

  • JubehJubeh Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Have you checked out fantasy wars or elven legacy? They are hex grid turn based fantasy games. There is magic and stuff but it's not too bad. Iduno if you can get a hold of fantasy wars, but elven legacy is like 5 bucks on steam.

  • DarkMechaDarkMecha The Outer SpaceRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I'd suggest Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic. It's a really awesome fantasy TBS with a campaign, scenario maps, a map editor, and if I recall correctly even a random map generator. It has lots of cool magic, like 12 sides, customizable heros and cities, all sorts of stuff. And great music!

    Check it out, it's mad cheap: http://store.steampowered.com/app/61520/?snr=1_7_suggest__13

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    What scope would you prefer? Do you want moderately small groups of named warriors fighting, or large armies that can die off in massive numbers and be easily replaced without you caring? What sort of lethality, do you want units to frequently die in one or two attacks (like in Fire Emblem or Advance Wars) or do you want units to be able to trade blows for a while (like in FFT)?

  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    It's not fantasy and may be a little obvious but...Medieval II: Total War? There's also a good mod for it that converts the game to Lord of The Rings: Total War, for your added fantasy needs.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=195998

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  • EliminationElimination Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
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  • runsongasrunsongas Registered User
    edited April 2011
    there are mods for Wesnoth for ranged attacks but the AI isn't fixed to actually use ranged attacks. it was debated to be added but eventually dropped because it just threw balance out the door for MP and the devs didn't want that.

    disciples also is not as tactical as wesnoth and much less so than the total war series (not too bad if you get it cheap but definitely a b-grade game).
    king's bounty is a good series, it just has its own set of drawbacks.

  • ghostbanditghostbandit Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Well if you are looking for a fantasy turn based game, check out Wakfu-

    Wakfu is a new game that is a turn based MMO. It is currently in closed-beta, but will be releasing open beta April 27th. At release of OB it will have 6 of 14 classes.

    Check it out.

    And it is free.

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  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    jothki wrote: »
    What scope would you prefer? Do you want moderately small groups of named warriors fighting, or large armies that can die off in massive numbers and be easily replaced without you caring? What sort of lethality, do you want units to frequently die in one or two attacks (like in Fire Emblem or Advance Wars) or do you want units to be able to trade blows for a while (like in FFT)?

    Good questions Jothki--
    I'm actually interested in both (small squad and larger army), and I'm not sure about lethality--I'll have to try a few to see.

    It seems like I have a TON of great suggestions already--Medieval II looks incredible, and I like the lack of fantasy, with the option to use one of the LotR mods if I feel the need to.

    I'll look into some of the RTS too (Stronghold and some others), and the Fire Emblem games for more TBS.

    Thanks a lot folks. This is great.

  • ShadowfireShadowfire Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    I'd suggest Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic. It's a really awesome fantasy TBS with a campaign, scenario maps, a map editor, and if I recall correctly even a random map generator. It has lots of cool magic, like 12 sides, customizable heros and cities, all sorts of stuff. And great music!

    Check it out, it's mad cheap: http://store.steampowered.com/app/61520/?snr=1_7_suggest__13

    It's the same price on GoG, plus you get the bonus goodies (mostly the excellent soundtrack), and no DRM.

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  • BullioBullio Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    It's not out yet, but A Game of Thrones: Genesis might be a good one to keep an eye on if you don't mind a dash of fantasy mixed in.

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  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Bullio wrote: »
    It's not out yet, but A Game of Thrones: Genesis might be a good one to keep an eye on if you don't mind a dash of fantasy mixed in.

    Adding to this, the fantasy level in A Game of Thrones is pretty low, at least for the first book (which is what I assuming is going on in this game).

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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    2nding kings bounty and fall from heaven 2. Also, not sure if it's technically more of a puzzle game than TBS, but check out might and magic: clash of heroes. It's on the DS, and also just came out for HD console download systems

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  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Game of Thrones would be awesome--I'll keep an eye on that. I'm not averse to fantasy elements (the fantasy elements of Wesnorth were good, actually--it was really just the extremely squishy "essential to winning" characters who had awesome ranged powers they could not use that I didn't like about it). I mean why give me an elven queen who can half-kill undead, but she can only really use it to mop up the last undead of a group, because she'll die otherwise?

    I have a Nintendo DS that I haven't used in a long time--I'll look at games on that too.

    The thing with my fantasy bias is I feel like a lot of games with a lot of magic elements end up being not as subtly tactical, because you are always trying to build up to the one big magic dude who can just demolish everything. I kind of like limited choices that are done well.

    I want my choices to be more narrow than a list of 20 spells with raise dead and "mass immolate" spells. I want the options to be grounded in economic decisions and limitations. (That was my other problem with Wesnorth--you could pretty easily buy 20 spearmen units. One quarter of them die, but they just mow down everything if you buy one cavalry unit who runs around grabbing villages--I think that strategy is kind of lame, but once I see such an exploitative and easy strategy it is hard to not keep using it)

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Sacrifice on PC. You get a hero unit and get to fight alongside your army.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I didn't see Civ mentioned. Why hasn't Civ been mentioned? maybe I just can't read.

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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Because he mentioned fantasy games? FfH2 was mentioned though

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  • Cynic JesterCynic Jester Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Fall from Heaven 2 is pretty much the best turn based fantasy I've ever played. It's so a mod good it has spawned tons of mods based on it.

    If you're willing to look back further, Heroes of Might and Magic 3 is a staple of mine for fantasy TBS, and the later games in the series aren't bad either. Along those lines, the Age of Wonders series is quite similar, though I prefer Heroes to it. Neither of these games are very restrictive in what options you have, but economic decisions play a huge part in getting to the point where it opens up. Lategame it tends to end up more about your heroes than your kingdom.

  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    civ could work, I'm going to check that out

    I know it is kind of a narrow scope I'm giving, but I do think there are some cool things that have been suggested. I pretty much wanted something like Mount & Blade, but turn based with society building. I mean, to a large degree, M&B does that, it just doesn't have the level of management that I wanted. You mostly spend the game riding around the map. I'd like something where you actually build the kingdom, ruling fiefs, and raising armies to fight in TB gameplay. RT is ok too.

    But, like I said, I have a lot of good recommendations already. I feel like you guys came through & then some. I'll be checking out the games suggested over the next week or so. I'm pretty psyched.

  • Grey PaladinGrey Paladin Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    I'd suggest Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic. It's a really awesome fantasy TBS with a campaign, scenario maps, a map editor, and if I recall correctly even a random map generator. It has lots of cool magic, like 12 sides, customizable heros and cities, all sorts of stuff. And great music!

    Check it out, it's mad cheap: http://store.steampowered.com/app/61520/?snr=1_7_suggest__13

    Seconded so hard. It is by far the greatest game of its type since Master of Magic, and I'd call its tactical combat deeper and superior.

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  • A steak!A steak! Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2011
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    I'd suggest Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic. It's a really awesome fantasy TBS with a campaign, scenario maps, a map editor, and if I recall correctly even a random map generator. It has lots of cool magic, like 12 sides, customizable heros and cities, all sorts of stuff. And great music!

    Check it out, it's mad cheap: http://store.steampowered.com/app/61520/?snr=1_7_suggest__13

    Seconded so hard. It is by far the greatest game of its type since Master of Magic, and I'd call its tactical combat deeper and superior.

    Thirded with gusto. Flying units have always been broken in the series, but it's still great.

    EDIT - fixed the thread title

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  • Ultros64Ultros64 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    A duck! wrote: »
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    I'd suggest Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic. It's a really awesome fantasy TBS with a campaign, scenario maps, a map editor, and if I recall correctly even a random map generator. It has lots of cool magic, like 12 sides, customizable heros and cities, all sorts of stuff. And great music!

    Check it out, it's mad cheap: http://store.steampowered.com/app/61520/?snr=1_7_suggest__13

    Seconded so hard. It is by far the greatest game of its type since Master of Magic, and I'd call its tactical combat deeper and superior.

    Thirded with gusto. Flying units have always been broken in the series, but it's still great.

    EDIT - fixed the thread title

    Throwing in my vote too, yeah.

    Shadow Magic is one game that we can always be expected to play at a LAN, even if a solid game can take many hours. The diversity between the races in combination with your specialization in magic opens up a wide range of combinations and tactics, making each game pretty interesting each time you play.

    So yeah, SM x1,000,000

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  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Ultros64 wrote: »
    A duck! wrote: »
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    I'd suggest Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic. It's a really awesome fantasy TBS with a campaign, scenario maps, a map editor, and if I recall correctly even a random map generator. It has lots of cool magic, like 12 sides, customizable heros and cities, all sorts of stuff. And great music!

    Check it out, it's mad cheap: http://store.steampowered.com/app/61520/?snr=1_7_suggest__13

    Seconded so hard. It is by far the greatest game of its type since Master of Magic, and I'd call its tactical combat deeper and superior.

    Thirded with gusto. Flying units have always been broken in the series, but it's still great.

    EDIT - fixed the thread title

    Throwing in my vote too, yeah.

    Shadow Magic is one game that we can always be expected to play at a LAN, even if a solid game can take many hours. The diversity between the races in combination with your specialization in magic opens up a wide range of combinations and tactics, making each game pretty interesting each time you play.

    So yeah, SM x1,000,000

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  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    wow! OK, I am checking that game out for sure.

  • l_gl_g Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    The comparison with Master of Magic sounds enticing.

    It should be noted that you can get Master of Magic on GOG for like $5, but the game has a few problems:
    - the computer is kind of dumb, and if it is outmatched in combat, it will literally "give up"; it won't move any units, and it will just kind of let you kill it.
    - the tactical combat has lots of things to it, but a given battle is not terribly expansive.

    On the other hand, some of the low-res spritework it has is very nice, and I never tire of seeing the view of a town that has shafts of light shining down on it from some holy blessing, while also showing a circle of black mages waving their arms while the city is surrounded by a wall of fire.

    How long does a game of Shadow Magic take? There are a ton of TBS games that have the unfortunate anecdote of "it's great and all, but games with friends either never finish/take foreverrrrrrrrrr to finish".

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  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I just bought Shadow Magic & Medieval 2: should I get Shogun 2? It has a marginally better meta-critic score... it is newer, of course, but what do you all think? As good as Medival/better?

  • Cynic JesterCynic Jester Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    streever wrote: »
    I just bought Shadow Magic & Medieval 2: should I get Shogun 2? It has a marginally better meta-critic score... it is newer, of course, but what do you all think? As good as Medival/better?

    Shogun 2 is a better game than Medieval 2, but I'd recommend people wait for a few patches before buying it.

  • DarkMechaDarkMecha The Outer SpaceRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    streever wrote: »
    I just bought Shadow Magic & Medieval 2: should I get Shogun 2? It has a marginally better meta-critic score... it is newer, of course, but what do you all think? As good as Medival/better?

    Gratz on making great choices! :D

    Check out http://aow2.heavengames.com/ for a bunch of neat AoW Shadow Magic related stuff, including mods, maps, and a big fan made patch. Not required but it's cool none the less.

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