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Animate your characters like real people if you want real people to care about them.

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Posts

  • TigTig Registered User
    edited April 2011
    Deusfaux wrote: »
    moreso than that, it lacks all the subtle qualities a movement a person might actually do in coversation. it's just a vague generalized idea of a gesture, rather than a real one a real human does


    I'll bet the majority of times you see the hand-gesture thing, it's because the animator was told "make us a vague generalized animation which we can use during every conversation with every NPC, everywhere"

  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Tig wrote: »
    Deusfaux wrote: »
    moreso than that, it lacks all the subtle qualities a movement a person might actually do in coversation. it's just a vague generalized idea of a gesture, rather than a real one a real human does


    I'll bet the majority of times you see the hand-gesture thing, it's because the animator was told "make us a vague generalized animation which we can use during every conversation with every NPC, everywhere"

    And when faced with the thought that this animation would be seen constantly, the realistic animator would create something described as "standing mostly still."

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  • V FactionV Faction Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Talith wrote: »
    You know what is REALLY awful? That one walking away animation characters end conversations with in mass effect, both of them!

    THANK YOU!

    *awkwardly turns head away then steps off camera*

    Ah yes, "Mass Effect animations".

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  • DelphinidaesDelphinidaes FFXIV: Delphi Kisaragi Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Lalabox wrote: »
    You know what game had good single player animation but noone noticed? codblops. They made a big thing about mocapping all the actors in the scenes, and even recording their faces very carefully, and no one cared. The problem with good animation is that it can often go unnoticed for so much effort.

    Same with crysis 1 and 2. It just fitted in, and noone noticed.

    It is ok if it goes unnoticed. It adds to the entire game whether or not someone specifically notices it or not, the overall game is enhanced by it.

    However, if the animation is bad it actively detracts from the game. Your average gamer may not realize "Why" but something feels off about the game. They may never attribute it specifically to the animation but it could be what is bothering them about the game.

    Essentially good animation won't necessarily be noticed for what it is, but your average viewer will find the images pleasing. It is like a good musical score, you won't necessarily notice the music in the background, but subconsciously it is adding to the entire experience.

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  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Yeah, animation is huge. Ever since HL2 came out I thought that from here on out all newer games would have to at least have this level of facial characterization and animation going on.

    But now, 7 years later I still see many games that can't even replicate that level of detail on the animation. It's a shame, really.

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  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Auberon wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Because you don't have to emulate human beings to have appealing animation. I mean, being unshackled from reality is one of the advantages of animation in the first place.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDanX-beShQ

    Please watch this. Please watch all of it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKIkw3LIoQ

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  • rdkenshinrdkenshin Registered User
    edited April 2011
    Deusfaux wrote: »
    I was also thinking hey maybe they can at least do animals decently half the time, but then I thought about it for a minute and remembered that's not true either. Usually it is, again, someone's IDEA of how a spider or bear or bat moves, instead of anything grounded in reality. Or worse, just the animator's memories of how evil scorpions moved in some other game they played before.

    Do you propose they put a mocap suit on a bear to get the realest real bear animations? Animation does not have to be completely grounded in reality to look good. In fact, there would be a dearth of creativity if an animators only goal was to copy real life. A designed, unrealistic movement will look better than a straight mocaped movement. Depending on the talent of the animator of course.

    But really, the reason why game animation is lower quality is that most talented animators are not aspiring to become a videogame animator. They're trying to break into the movie industry. Therefore, whats leftover for the videogame industry are the B-tier animators, and they don't have any real pressure to improve their technique because the players and higher-ups are fine with the level of animation so far. Which is unfortunate. Stuff like The Last Guardian or the Naruto PS3 games shows what good animation can do for interactive media.

  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    rdkenshin wrote: »
    Do you propose they put a mocap suit on a bear to get the realest real bear animations? Animation does not have to be completely grounded in reality to look good. In fact, there would be a dearth of creativity if an animators only goal was to copy real life. A designed, unrealistic movement will look better than a straight mocaped movement. Depending on the talent of the animator of course.

    This is how you do it right:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkb0r2-vYK0

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  • Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Zzulu wrote: »
    Ever since HL2 came out I thought that from here on out all newer games would have to at least have this level of facial characterization and animation going on.

    But now, 7 years later I still see many games that can't even replicate that level of detail on the animation. It's a shame, really.

    This so very much. I remember thinking to myself while playing through HL2 back in 2005 (it was 2005 right?) 'This is it. Now everyone else has to step their game up.' But, sadly, it hasn't happened like that.

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  • DeusfauxDeusfaux Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    rdkenshin wrote: »
    Deusfaux wrote: »
    I was also thinking hey maybe they can at least do animals decently half the time, but then I thought about it for a minute and remembered that's not true either. Usually it is, again, someone's IDEA of how a spider or bear or bat moves, instead of anything grounded in reality. Or worse, just the animator's memories of how evil scorpions moved in some other game they played before.

    Do you propose they put a mocap suit on a bear to get the realest real bear animations? Animation does not have to be completely grounded in reality to look good. In fact, there would be a dearth of creativity if an animators only goal was to copy real life.

    It has to be grounded in reality, like I said.

    Grounded in reality =/= copying real life

    see: Sporky's comment, and exactly what I had in mind when I thought of traditional animation. rooted in real life.

  • rdkenshinrdkenshin Registered User
    edited April 2011
    rdkenshin wrote: »
    Do you propose they put a mocap suit on a bear to get the realest real bear animations? Animation does not have to be completely grounded in reality to look good. In fact, there would be a dearth of creativity if an animators only goal was to copy real life. A designed, unrealistic movement will look better than a straight mocaped movement. Depending on the talent of the animator of course.

    This is how you do it right:

    Yup. They're basing it on reality and studying real lions but it's still the artists interpretation of a lion. And holy shit, that kid from Home Improvement was Simba?!
    Deusfaux wrote: »
    It has to be grounded in reality, like I said.

    Grounded in reality =/= copying real life

    see: Sporky's comment, and exactly what I had in mind when I thought of traditional animation. rooted in real life.

    Oh ok. I misinterpreted your post as a "mocap all the way!" type of post.

  • Katsuhiro 1139Katsuhiro 1139 Dublin, IrelandRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I keep trying to Mass Effect Exit (Mass Exit?) from every day conversations in the office. It turns out "I have to go," followed by a furtive downward glance to the right (accompanied by a slow about-face in the same direction) isn't a socially acceptable way to behave in Western society.

  • mystic_knightmystic_knight Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    rdkenshin wrote: »
    Do you propose they put a mocap suit on a bear to get the realest real bear animations? Animation does not have to be completely grounded in reality to look good. In fact, there would be a dearth of creativity if an animators only goal was to copy real life. A designed, unrealistic movement will look better than a straight mocaped movement. Depending on the talent of the animator of course.

    This is how you do it right:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkb0r2-vYK0

    Did anyone else think the animator talking about JTT near the beginning got a little creepy?

  • SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Amazing feats in animation:

    - Shadow of the Colossus
    From now on, all horses in other games are hilarious. Agro is beautifully animated, and so is all of the procedural animations on Wander, without using fancy euphoria physics.

    - Source engine
    Facial animation is auto-generated lip-syncing with the speech audio file.

    And of course, Euphoria.

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  • mere_immortalmere_immortal So tasty!Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Gotta agree with SotC, Wander flailing about on a colossus with only a handful of hair to cling onto looks appropriately perilous.

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  • SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
  • AyulinAyulin Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Satsumomo wrote: »
    - Source engine
    Facial animation is auto-generated lip-syncing with the speech audio file.

    Source engine facial expressions are amazing. Seriously. Being able to tell how the characters in either L4Ds are feeling just by looking at their faces never gets old for me - it's brilliant.

    While we're on the topic of the Source engine, and since Portal 2 is (hopefully understandably) on my mind: not a person, but the expressiveness of Wheatley, a character that is pretty much just a robotic eye, blows me away. It's similar to WALL-E - a non-humanoid character that displays emotion/expressions really effectively.
    Satsumomo wrote: »
    And of course, Euphoria.
    I've only played GTA IV and The Ballad of Gay Tony, so I'm not sure if it's different elsewhere, but Euphoria leads to some pretty silly things under certain circumstances. It's great for the most part, but when someone ragdolls while grabbing onto a car and their limbs bend in a way that would be impossible without them having spontaneously broken every bone... Eh.

    Quite a few things lead to things like that, actually. Shooting someone who's was aiming a pistol comes to mind - the hand with the gun bends awkwardly as they stumble sideways. Explosions cause non-stop cartwheeling at insane speeds. These might be more of the physics engine than Euphoria itself, though.

    Still, I just played a little of San Andreas again yesterday, and GTA IV's characters/civilians move around an order of magnitude more realistically. I guess what I'm trying to say is Euphoria is great but iffy at the same time :P

    (GTA IV and it's DLC seems to have an odd segregation between the quality of character expressions in a cutscene and in the playable world, too. Facial expressions and the way characters shift around are noticeably much more realistic when it's in a proper cutscene (for instance, at the very beginning of missions) as compared to when the cutscene is "in the world" (e.g. if you did a mission with another character, the bit at the end where they exchange a few lines about how it went). When it's a proper cutscene you get facial animations, natural movement, the works, but when it's "in world" suddenly their faces go blank with only their mouths flopping open and close when they speak, and they stand there waving their arms for expression.)

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