As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

Aquired: Empty 55 gallon tank. Now what? Answer: Frogs.

Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
edited April 2011 in Help / Advice Forum
Just as the thread title says. I have an empty 55 gallon tank with a nice stand and I'm open to all suggestions. Courtesy of my pops, it came with the nessesary aquarium doo dads (filters etc). I've had fish tanks before and can go either way on doing it again. I had good reptile contacts and I have some fish/coral contacts to work with. Pictures of ideas would be awesome.
I've kind of been wanting to do a large tank filled with a school of tetras or other small fish.

Update below: Probably going with froggies.

Skoal Cat on
«1

Posts

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I always wanted one of these:

    cute_hedgehog.jpg

    dispatch.o on
  • LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Is the 55 gallon tank more vertical or horizontal? I don't know anything about fish, but if it's more horizontal you could go for a terrestrial reptile, and if it's more vertical, you could go with an arboreal one.

    Here are some easy (and fun) reptiles for either.

    Horizontal: http://www.boatips.com/images/corn%20snake.jpg
    Elaphe Guttata, commonly known as a corn snake. They are cute as the Dickens and a really easy beginner snake.

    Vertical: http://snakebuddies.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/tree-boa.jpg
    Corallus Caninus, commonly known as the Emerald Tree Boa (They can be tempermental, so I wouldn't recommend them to a beginner.)

    LoveIsUnity on
    steam_sig.png
  • KitsunaKitsuna Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    If you're looking for fish knowledge, then there's an Aquarium thread over in D&D that's worth reading. It's kind of unorganised, but there's plenty of info buried in there.

    Kitsuna on
    MGRSig2.jpg
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Its more horizontal. I don't necessarily need advice on how to do something, but suggestions of different awesome things I could do.

    Skoal Cat on
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Fill it with aquarium ornaments and water, but no fish.

    Pretend to everybody that there are fish in there, and see how long you can keep up the charade. Cheaper than real fish, and arguably as entertaining.

    Or an axolotl - look, he's smiling!
    axolotl.jpg

    Rhesus Positive on
    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
  • KitsunaKitsuna Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Another alternative - assuming you don't have the requisite phobia to hinder you - would be a large spider of some sort.

    Kitsuna on
    MGRSig2.jpg
  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I always end up drifting to the coral tanks and staying there way too long when I go to the aquarium store. Add some mobile invertebrates (starfish, crustaceans) and maybe some fish that'll play nice and you're done. Well I'd be done. I've never done it because the whole things sounds very fiddly and expensive and unforgiving of vacations.

    Djeet on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    There is no way I'm going to try salt water, eff that.

    Skoal Cat on
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    It's not *that* much more difficult - cycling a salt water tank is very easy, just throw in some uncured live rock and let the die off run until the nitrite spike goes down and you're good. However... the cost is crazy. Corals especially - I've got a heavily stocked 55 gallon planted tank (been running seven years now) that still cost about a third as much to set up and half as much a month to run as my 15 gallon reef tank, and that tank hasn't even reached the stage where I've actually got fish in it, just inverts. Corals require very powerful lighting, strong filtration, good protein skimming, and powerheads or waterjets all over the place. Fish only is manageable, but you're still talking about twice the running cost and 3-5 times the livestock cost.

    If you're considering fish, hit up fishforums.net and read up a bit on fishless cycling, and weekly maintenance (there's stickies in the newbie forum there). Very, very few pet stores will give you useful advice on getting the tank established or week to week maintenance, and "very, very few" drops to "pretty much none" in most of the US. A lot of that info is mentioned in the fish thread here, but it's a bit more organized on that site. I know you've mentioned having tanks before, but if you're iffy on doing it again it might be worth seeing if there were things you could do to make it all easier and more sustainable. It's pretty mind boggling initially, but I'll be honest: a 55 is pretty much the best tank you can go with. It's big enough that you can do virtually anything with it, and it's still small enough that weekly maintenance is a matter of an hour or less.

    Have you had reptiles before? Snakes in general are pretty easy - 55 gallons is big enough for anything but the biggest monsters, really. My 4 foot kingsnake is in a 15 gallon and it's big enough that he's had rats evade him for a few hours before he finally nails them. As for lizards, desert reptiles are the easiest to get into. Generally hardier and more fault tolerant. I've been interested in getting a uromastyx for a while, since they're vegetarian and I got tired of how much my leopard gecko costs to feed.

    Hevach on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I've never kept reptiles but I know a few breeders and licensed exotic handlers.

    Skoal Cat on
  • KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I've always had aquariums and reptiles, but recently I discovered the only breeder of Axolotls in Canada lives twenty minutes from me.


    55 is a good size for 4-5 of them. And they are awesome. The tank didn't come with a chiller, did it? What sort of climate do you live in?


    A_mexicanum1LITTLE.jpg

    Kochikens on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Warm and humid pretty much year round

    Skoal Cat on
  • KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Tetras would do you good then. And actually, any sort of snake/reptile for the most part (Hot+humid is good because it helps with shedding), EXCEPT for that really, I mean. If you want to do a snake you would be better served with a custom build rather than a big glass box. Leopard geckos would be good. Axolotls need to be kept between 16-20 so probably not unless you're okay with buying a chiller (200$+)

    If you're not willing to do SW then I am going to advise you no to doing a planted tank. But for cool tanks ideas, http://www.designsbynature.net/products-page/ has cool shit.

    No matter what, even with all the shit, doing a cool tank of that size is gonna cost you a few dollars or a lot of effort. Sorta gotta pick one. Unless you're happy with a ghetto tank (Like I am). If you do hella did Axolotls, it is 200$ for the chiller, then you're good for prettymuch ever as they don't need much. That AND your water changes will be easier cause you only need to half fill the tank, they care about the footprint rather than height.

    Here is a very well done tank builder calculator, though yeah, I mean. If you're GOOD, you can get away with a lot of shit.

    http://www.aqadvisor.com/


    editedit: If you want to throw the tank up on it's side vertically and stick a mesh door on it you can do a really cool crested gecko tank.

    Kochikens on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I'm not even sure how good the filters my dad gave me are. I fully expect to spend a few hundred to get this thing started. Needing something like a chiller sounds like a pain in the ass. I turn my AC off during the day and the apartment heats up to 85ish and its only April. In the summer I'll hit the 90s easily.

    That Designs By Nature stuff, is that stuff for the back wall of the tank that doesn't look like a giant sticker?

    Skoal Cat on
  • KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    If it hits 90 you're probably going to need a chiller for most water-tanks anyways, really. :[ Unless you're willing to do bottle-transfers, which means you take a frozen water bottle and are constantly swapping it in and out with another frozen water bottle. (You can't just dump icecubes in water, it changes the temperature too rapidly) It is a LOT of effort.

    http://www.bigalsonline.com/searchResults.mtw?query=chiller
    You really just buy it and then it is done. You can get them second hand for cheaper. Can you check what sort of filters you have??

    Are you looking for low maintenance? Some leopard gecko setups are fucking awesome.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a244JCEIQHs&feature=fvwrel

    There are entire how to walkthroughs. This site is particularily good: http://www.lizard-landscapes.com/

    Leo's come in cool Morphs too. You may want to try going to a reptile show (Sellers, tables, etc etc) and seeing what people have, asking questions?

    Kochikens on
  • KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    The designs by nature stuff is 3d

    Kochikens on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I'd seriously need a chiller for most fish tanks? Woooow. Never done that before (also never did a tank like this in this area). Low maintenance is good, but I'm willing to put in a couple hours a week taking care of something. Is two hours a week high maintenance? I don't even know.

    Skoal Cat on
  • KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    You need to do 30% - 50% water changes on any fishtank weekly. That means you need to remove 50% of the water from a fishtank and replace it with new water. You have to empty that water out by siphon, dump it out, pour new water, add de-chlorinator, pour it in. Weekly. A 55 gallon fishtank is 25 gallons of water a week you're going to be moving.

    Or you can buy a python, which hooks up to a sink-tap. But. Still. It is NOT a passive hobby. Two hours a week should be good, but expect your initial set up to be more than that because you need to be doing daily/every other day chemical testing as your tank cycles. Google Aquarium cycling.


    Most fish don't really groove on 90 degree water. They prefer steady temperatures. I have never had to do it because I live in Canadeh where it is pretty fucking temperate and I just need a heater.


    http://www.aquariumlife.net/articles/aquarium-care/101.asp <--- hot water tips

    Kochikens on
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Skoal Cat wrote: »
    I'd seriously need a chiller for most fish tanks? Woooow. Never done that before (also never did a tank like this in this area). Low maintenance is good, but I'm willing to put in a couple hours a week taking care of something. Is two hours a week high maintenance? I don't even know.

    At 90, for most general aquarium fish, yeah. 90% of what you get in stores has been inbred in controlled conditions for hundreds of generations, they're not as fluctuation tolerant as they once were.

    However, many amazon fish would be an option. Standard angelfish may be iffy (mass breeding), but altums and leopoldi angels are pretty tolerant of temperatures in the 85-90 range. Discus can take that kind of heat, too (get locally bred ones, especially if they were bred in untreated water - discus are hard to get settled in if you have hard water), but they're expensive and not really a fault tolerant fish. Also, discus hate their owners. Keep one alone, it goes on a hunger strike and stresses to death. Keep them in a group and they fight constantly. I had a big one systematically wipe out the other 10 in their shoal starting with the smallest, and then when they were alone, they stopped feeding because they really stress out if they don't have the safety of a shoal.

    Also, most of the deep bodied tetras and some Lake Malawi cichlids (not sure about Victorians, but definitely stay away from Tanganyikans). Cardinal tetras could probably take it, since they haven't been mass bred for very long, and they're from very hot native waters. Neon tetras are from the same area, but mass breeding has made them very sensitive little guys.

    Denisoni barbs (aka Roseline sharks) are extreme heat, probably the best bet for those temperatures since many are wild caught, but they've become almost impossible to find - they were harvested near extinction before captive breeding was well established, so after the big boom of them a few years ago you can't get them very easily.



    Edit: Tossing in there, a native fish tank is always interesting, and you can usually keep them at ambient temperatures no problem, even if it gets hot. Check your state laws for collection guidelines, but once you get them home, there's next to zero enforcement of state laws that would make keeping them illegal. I have a few local fish that I caught in season with barbless hooks and brought home in a bucket. They're illegal for the three months of the year you can't catch them, but the only point of enforcement is the DNR water patrols.

    On the other hand, it's also always an experiment - not many North American fish are in the aquarium hobby, so knowledge of how they adjust to captivity or how to care for them is pretty limited. I can tell you not to even try with bass - they will promptly freak out and beat themselves to death against the glass.

    Hevach on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    The filter is a Marineland double water wheel thing with a penguin filter that takes rite-size C filter cartridges. I also have a heater which should be useful as I like to keep my apartment cold at night. I guess my apartment will range 70-90 degrees throughout the year.

    Skoal Cat on
  • RikushixRikushix VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I second Kochi's suggestion for tetras. Of most sorts. Tetras are relatively hardy compared to other fish.

    Rikushix on
    StKbT.jpg
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Skoal Cat wrote: »
    The filter is a Marineland double water wheel thing with a penguin filter that takes rite-size C filter cartridges. I also have a heater which should be useful as I like to keep my apartment cold at night. I guess my apartment will range 70-90 degrees throughout the year.

    Is this an over-the-back filter? I'd either add a second one on the other half of the tank, or get a canister for a 55 (assuming this is a standard 48x12 55). Fluval has some nice affordable options - my 55 runs on a 405, I think. Over-the-back filters don't do that well getting horizontal flow, I had pretty consistent water quality problems even with an extended capacity Aquaclear filter supposedly rated for 115 gallons, but had no problem running a 55 with two of them. The Fluval is just a lot less visible equipment in the tank, and also less noisy.

    If you're prone to power outages at any time of the year, the wheels are also a potential issue - they're good for getting oxygen to a large bacterial colony, but if the water stops, the wheel stops. Most filters will stay full of water, in which case the bacteria won't start dying off for a day or so, but dry they'll be pretty much gone in a few hours. If you're home, just pull the wheel off and drop it in the tank. I keep my filters on a computer UPS - you'd be surprised how long one of those can run a tank.

    Note, the carbon cartridge, you can really do without. They're a borderline scam by the filter companies to get repeat purchases out of owners. The carbon gets saturated very quickly (a matter of hours in some cases, usually 1-3 days, in any case much more quickly than they suggest replacing it), and most of the time isn't removing anything worth removing. Use them when needed - removing medicine after a treatment for example. Regular use just ends up costing money.

    Hevach on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Yup, just the one over the back filter on a standard 55 gallon tank. Sounds like I will definitely be looking into a better filter.

    Skoal Cat on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I think I want frogs. Look how cool these dudes are.
    poison-dart-frog.jpg
    strawberry_poison-dart_frog.jpg
    863842911_7e990a176a.jpg
    red-eye-tree-frog-7550-13.jpg
    THE COLORS DUKE, THE COLORS!

    I spoke to one of my reptile friends and he got me looking into Paludariums
    sl381391sc2.jpg
    Half land half water, perfect... right? We were talking about designs and he was also thinking we could caulk a plexi divider in the tank and make a little pool type area which would give some solid ground for stuff to walk on.

    So, thoughts on frogs? What colorful pet breeds are there? Anything I should know going ahead? Thoughts on a paludarium or other semi-aquatic set up? My reptile guy told me he could find me a breeder if I worked out ahead of time what I was looking for.

    Skoal Cat on
  • DemerdarDemerdar Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    All you need to know about setting up a paludarium.

    I have a feeling that these things are somewhat high-maintenance. Though they do look pretty cool.

    Demerdar on
    y6GGs3o.gif
  • KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    frog tanks are expensive if only cause of misters and the initial set up
    but damn
    a nice frog tank is prettymuch a show piece of itself and then when you get the frogs it's sort of just like whatever

    I would recommend carving out the tank from something then covering it in something waterproof. There are lots of guides on shit like this. Do you intend for it to be fish-worthy water? Rather than doing a whole water bottom you could just do a waterfall.

    Kochikens on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    It would be cool if I could keep fish in there as well, but I understand that mixing species is very difficult to do right. Do frogs need more climbing things, or more dry land? I wouldn't want to create a difficult terrain for frogs just because I also want fish.

    Skoal Cat on
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Skoal Cat wrote: »
    It would be cool if I could keep fish in there as well, but I understand that mixing species is very difficult to do right. Do frogs need more climbing things, or more dry land? I wouldn't want to create a difficult terrain for frogs just because I also want fish.

    Depends on the type of frog.
    Most of the tree frogs posted earlier need trees and stuff to climb on. The more vertical space they've got the happier they'll be.

    On the other hand, a pacman frog doesn't really do much in the way of climbing (or moving for that matter). On the downside, pacman frogs will eat pretty much anything that's smaller then them and will try to eat anything they think is smaller then they are. So, not the best base for a community tank.

    see317 on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Pacman frogs look ugly. I want cute little tree frogs!
    What are some breeds I should consider?
    I love the look of live plants and have kept them fairly well in aquariums. Is this going to be significantly harder in a frog tank?
    Should I carve things to climb, or should I get actual branches etc?
    Should I just go to a good reptile store?

    Skoal Cat on
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    You may consider turtles too.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    For breeds, you need to consider what other animals you have. I mean, tree frogs are small, sneaky creatures and a lot of the more colorful ones are all kinds of poisonous. It wouldn't be cool for one to get out and kill a family dog or something while being eaten, that's just a bad day all the way around. That said, red eyed tree frogs aren't poisonous, and they're also good bit larger then most poison dart frogs so it would be harder for them to squeeze out of an insecure lid.

    From what I researched while I was interested in getting a tree frog as a pet, the White's tree frog is a good bet for a starter. It's fairly widely available, and pretty hardy and tends to be more affordable then most other breeds, though it does tend to be less colorful. It's also large enough that you'll be able to find it if it escapes before it turns into a bit of jerky.

    Plant wise, I'd imagine tropical plants would be pretty easy to keep in a frog tank, since plants and frogs like a lot of the same stuff. Good light, good heat, high humidity etc... Also, the frogs aren't likely to be munching on the plants, so, that's a plus.

    If you've got the space to put in a hand carved frog climbing wall in your tank, I'd say go for it if you can minimize the splinters. Include some natural branches in the tank as well. Between those and the live plants it should give your frog space to hide and variety for climbing.

    I want to add that it's been years since I was actively researching frogs as potential pets so my information may be out of date or poorly remembered.

    If you've got one nearby, good reptile store is a great place to start and a wonderful resource. A bad reptile store is worse then nothing though, so check the place out before you drop to much cash.

    see317 on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Just got back from a recommended reptile store. They gave me some suggestions on species, and some possible species that can co-habitate, but the short answer is that I need to set up my tank before I get anything.
    Time to start designing!

    Skoal Cat on
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Man, as far as I knew frogs were happy with a rock, a stick and some water. My dreams as a kid? Shattered by this thread.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Be aware of noise tendencies of various species, too. You wouldn't want to spend forever setting something like this up, then realize that you got some noisy guys who are going to annoy you.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I'll keep that in mind, but I don't think the noise would bother me. I used to live in a very wooded area on a pond and, well, nature is noisy as fuck. Actually, I think I might like some vocal dudes and dudettes.
    bowen wrote: »
    Man, as far as I knew frogs were happy with a rock, a stick and some water. My dreams as a kid? Shattered by this thread.

    I guess some land frogs don't need much, but tree frogs want to climb and hide. I also want something that looks fucking gorgeous, so I am definitely doing more than one would "need" to.

    Skoal Cat on
  • TrillianTrillian Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Skoal Cat wrote: »
    Pacman frogs look ugly. I want cute little tree frogs!
    What are some breeds I should consider?
    I love the look of live plants and have kept them fairly well in aquariums. Is this going to be significantly harder in a frog tank?
    Should I carve things to climb, or should I get actual branches etc?
    Should I just go to a good reptile store?

    No don't listen to anyone!!!!!
    I have frogs. I have frogs on frogs (literally they are breeding)

    You want cute little frogs, you say? DART FROGS!!!
    I have a breeding pair of Dendrobates tinctorius "cobalt blue"
    IMG_0041.jpg

    and a red eyed treefrog.

    The red eye is hells of narcoleptic, and you never ever see him out and about. He's cute when he's asleep, don't get me wrong, but that's the only time I ever see him.

    The darts on the other hand are always out and about begging for food. Yeah you heard it, these pigs hop up and down in front of the glass watching me, waiting for me to get some food in front of them.

    Frogs do require live food, which means, for red eyes, a trip to the cricket store, or dart frogs, breeding wingless fruit flies in mason jars at home.
    Oh yeah, and they don't climb glass, so you don't have to worry about the frogs getting loose in your house.

    Trillian on

    They cast a shadow like a sundial in the morning light. It was half past 10.
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    How many darts/frogs could I have in a tank? Breeding would be bad ass. How prolific are they? I don't want to have to get rid of frogs I don't have room for.

    Skoal Cat on
  • TrillianTrillian Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    These little mother truckers only have about 6 eggs at a time, and a tank that size could hold 10+ frogs easily... The Dendrobates are really easy to breed - all they require is a froggy of the opposite sex and a little coconut shell to lay their eggs under. Their calls are really inoffensive too! I heard my little male frog chirruping away today and it was barely audible and very adorable.

    Trillian on

    They cast a shadow like a sundial in the morning light. It was half past 10.
  • minirhyderminirhyder BerlinRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    What about gerbils? They would sure enjoy the space of a 55 gallon. So much digging and burrowing. And it's pretty cheap and easy to keep them.

    minirhyder on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Eh, I like rats a bunch but I've really got my heart set on
    2e-3.jpg
    creating the motherfuckin rainforest.

    How? Not sure, thats the long road ahead.

    Skoal Cat on
Sign In or Register to comment.