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[TV] Game of Thrones, presented by HBO - NO BOOK DISCUSSION.
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Probably more a case of pacing, working out where to end a particular episode to emphasise triumphs on one side or the other. Just because one side doesn't get away cleanly doesn't mean they've lost - I've a feeling that a lot of us here read to fast and might get their opinions coloured by whatever the last thing that happened.
Mad Men, in particular, had an obligation to portray Don as something of an advertising genius from the start in order for much of his dramatic arc to work. Game of Thrones doesn't have a comparable Main Character, as much as some may become attached to one individual or another, so the positive progressing elements become even more diffuse and minor.
Especially given the rapid pace at which shit goes down.
You have to do some serious genealogical research to figure out that blond children from a Barratheon/ Lannister union have never happened before, and quite a bit of real world sleuthing to find out that all of Roberts bastards have black hair like him. And there's no guarantee that Cersei even knows all of that.
Cersei is pretty damn stupid, and on top of that, she thinks she's a genius. If she gets the idea that some fake motherly bonding might help her in some way in the future, she's not likely to think twice about what else she might be giving away.
And to make this post not entirely composed of book spoilers in the show thread- Ilyn Payne is scary enough for me. He didn't look too physically imposing in the last episode, but he was standing next to the Hound. And he had a very creepy stare.
Neal Stephenson
I hear his name in my mind as "Ill and Pain".
I keep thinking he's a Captain Planet villain or something.
Yeah, I think this is Pixels' objection to the show: there's just nothing good. The book, I think, did a much better job of making characters likable. Take for instance Jon giving Arya her sword: it happens in the show, yeah, but there's not much to it. Jon hands her a sword, they hug, it's over in about a minute of total screen time. In the book, on the other hand,
Right now, the single most likable character in the show, by far, is Tyrion. And for people who have read the books,
Their family motto is "Winter is coming", so I think among the nobles, they ARE the gloomy-stick arses. That's part of why they're the masters of the North/Wall. They get shit done, but they aren't sunshine and flowers.
Regarding Theon in the book:
This should not be misconstrued with a dislike of the show, which I adore, but this part just gnaws at me for some reason.
As a non-reader myself, I agree with this.
The show is a little overwhelming in the amount of information it presents already, and adding extra explanation from an outside source (books) could quickly push it over the line to where its so complex that you just you throw up your hands and give up.
Currently the show is striking a good balance for me. There's quite the overload of characters and settings and histories at first, to the point that I had only the vaguest idea of who was who and what was really going on after my first watching of ep 1. There was just too much info to soak in immediately. Where there is obviously more explanation missing, it just tells me interesting things are coming if I hang around.
In fact, the curiosity triggered by the things the show is deliberately withholding is what caused me to go back and re-watch episode 1 three more times interspersed between obsessive bouts of checking out the HBO spoiler-free history page. After all that and then watching episode 2 I'm pretty confident I know exactly who all the characters are now and where they're coming from.
However, if someone had just tried to dump all that information on me while I was watching the show for the first time, especially if it meant pausing the show repeatedly, I can say with a great deal of confidence that I would have found it overwhelming to the point of not being fun, and may very well have lost interest entirely.
I think the writers of the show seem to know what they're doing by only giving us the background information we absolutely need at any one point in time. It breaks things down into more digestible chunks, and where it leaves an obvious hole in the background/history, it just serves as tantalizing bait for future episodes.
Also can't wait to see some of the casting choices
Mainly
book 3-4? spoilers
The assassin Arya meets who gives her the coin and if i recall leads her to ashi I think it is
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Who cares? So he's different in the show than he is in the books. I'm sure they'll make it work.
Jeez, I've read the books and even I'm getting tired of all the comparisons between the two.
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So far the only thing that's been announced is the first two seasons, each will span it's respective book title, so this season should wrap up all of Game of Thrones, and the next one should encompass Clash of Kings
Also, would you guys stop dropping book spoilers in the thread specifically for the TV show....I know it's hard not to take what's on the show and move forward from there, but there is an entire thread for those of us who have read the novels, so if you want to discuss the show espeically in relation to the books, take it over there and let's leave this thread *book spoiler* free which was it's intended purpose.
Also, I'll ask again but isn't Jon Snows hair blonde/white in the books?
No. I, like whomever answered a similar question earlier, believe that he and Arya are typically described as the only two who look like Starks while the other children look similar to Tullys.
Isn't that because he has facial features much like Ned and has quite pale skin like ned.
I thought it said he had light colored hair
I may be wrong.
However, I think casting is pretty great anyway.
I don't remember and my books are at home, but I don't think you're right... like, that's just my gut memory talking. Those theories in your spoiler (spoilers for all the books, really, for those unaware) are supported by much, much more compelling evidence.
"Jon’s eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black, but there was little they did not see. He was of an age with Robb, but they did not look alike. Jon was slender where Robb was muscular, dark where Robb was fair, graceful and quick where his half brother was strong and fast."
Huh.
I should stop picturing him as a young Geralt.
In regards to the "depressing" and "nothing good ever happens" quality, I can see why that would push people away. It's not bothering me too much.
I do love the show so far, and I like Arya especially.
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thats a conversation for the book thread though
That's actually how I pictured him the first time through as well - almost a bit albino-y. My friend said he pictured Jon looking like David Bowie. I wonder what it is in the text that gave us that impression?
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I'd have to agree with this. I feel like the majority of the book readers watching it with non-readers and complaining that they were confused by it is because said non-readers asked "who's that guy again?" and got a paragraphs-long explanation instead of waiting for the show to explain/reiterate the information naturally. I think I was halfway through the first season of The Wire before I knew everyone's name, and I liked that show just fine. In this, I felt like Ned Stark had 3 or 4 samey looking dark-haired prettyboy sons in the scene where they found the direwolves, and a full explanation would probably have been hard to keep track of at that point (I found out I was wrong because of the second episode and glancing at the HBO viewers guide, but I don't think the latter would have been necessary).
also I am pretty sure I did not know Kima's name until halfway through season 2 of The Wire
There's a passage about halfway through the first book:
It *is* just flour, but between that passage and the albino wolf named Ghost and his own wintry name, I can see how people would develop a mental image of a pale Jon Snow.
Because everyone called her Gregs.
I do like the way Game of Thrones introduces chracters though, like the scenes with Jaime before he was relevant to the plot, builds him up and then he does something to remember him by. They also made sure to mention that his sister is the queen, all of it came out nicely for an episode I think. No idea how it flowed for people who didn't read the books.
I think Martin has said he hopes that they do 1:1 for GoT and CoK, and then SoS and FFC get three seasons between them.
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John Snow of the Night's Watch
And, by the way, my husband is enjoying the hell out of the series so far, even though he only read the first chapter or so of GoT. So it can be interesting to those who haven't read the books.
Actually what he said was 1:1 for GoT and Clash, then 2 for Storm, then 3 for Feast/Dance
Yeah. Which is kinda ridiculous. I suspect that if the show even gets that far, they'll start making seasons long and cutting things.