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[Star Trek] Let's make sure history never forgets the name Enterprise

2456799

Posts

  • mcpmcp Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Garak is clearly the best recurring character.

    Apart from Morn, obviously. How could you top that?
    Morn is awesome.

    All keeping latinum in his second stomach.

    walrus.png
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Richy wrote: »
    Here's an interesting topic I've been musing on, thanks to watching lots of SF Debris reviews: If one could do Voyager all over again from the start, how would one improve it and avoid the mistakes it made?

    An angle I would be interested in would be that Janeway was actually First Officer and had to take charge after the Captain was killed. Especially if you make it so Voyager was her first taste of Command after being a Science Officer, that would make an interesting arc where she had to cope with the power unexpectedly thrust on her.
    I would make it about the adventures of a ship cut away from the Federation. No resupplies, damage is permanent, limited number of shuttles and photon torpedoes. They would have to balance their high ideals with the reality of their bad situation. Also, there could be tensions between two mortal enemy factions who are at war with each other, but are forced to work together on the same ship.

    Voyager, done properly, would basically be BSG with no RTF, civilian government, or Baltar.

    It would be a very interesting show, but I don't think the old-school trekkies who watched TOS as it originally aired would go for it.

    sig.png
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Richy wrote: »
    Here's an interesting topic I've been musing on, thanks to watching lots of SF Debris reviews: If one could do Voyager all over again from the start, how would one improve it and avoid the mistakes it made?

    An angle I would be interested in would be that Janeway was actually First Officer and had to take charge after the Captain was killed. Especially if you make it so Voyager was her first taste of Command after being a Science Officer, that would make an interesting arc where she had to cope with the power unexpectedly thrust on her.
    I would make it about the adventures of a ship cut away from the Federation. No resupplies, damage is permanent, limited number of shuttles and photon torpedoes. They would have to balance their high ideals with the reality of their bad situation. Also, there could be tensions between two mortal enemy factions who are at war with each other, but are forced to work together on the same ship.

    Voyager, done properly, would basically be BSG with no RTF, civilian government, or Baltar.

    It would be a very interesting show, but I don't think the old-school trekkies who watched TOS as it originally aired would go for it.

    Well no one liked it as it was, so I'm not sure that changing it that way to be BSG would have made it more unpopular.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Garak is clearly the best recurring character.

    Apart from Morn, obviously. How could you top that?
    Morn had the best lines.

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Richy wrote: »
    Here's an interesting topic I've been musing on, thanks to watching lots of SF Debris reviews: If one could do Voyager all over again from the start, how would one improve it and avoid the mistakes it made?

    An angle I would be interested in would be that Janeway was actually First Officer and had to take charge after the Captain was killed. Especially if you make it so Voyager was her first taste of Command after being a Science Officer, that would make an interesting arc where she had to cope with the power unexpectedly thrust on her.
    I would make it about the adventures of a ship cut away from the Federation. No resupplies, damage is permanent, limited number of shuttles and photon torpedoes. They would have to balance their high ideals with the reality of their bad situation. Also, there could be tensions between two mortal enemy factions who are at war with each other, but are forced to work together on the same ship.

    Voyager, done properly, would basically be BSG with no RTF, civilian government, or Baltar.

    It would be a very interesting show, but I don't think the old-school trekkies who watched TOS as it originally aired would go for it.

    If you included a large, alien group of refugees voyager was forced to take on in the beginning instead of two random people that might add something. Stress the crew and characters and create opportunities for conflict or something.

    He's a superhumanly strong soccer-playing romance novelist possessed of the uncanny powers of an insect. She's a beautiful African-American doctor with her own daytime radio talk show. They fight crime!
  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Richy wrote: »
    Here's an interesting topic I've been musing on, thanks to watching lots of SF Debris reviews: If one could do Voyager all over again from the start, how would one improve it and avoid the mistakes it made?

    An angle I would be interested in would be that Janeway was actually First Officer and had to take charge after the Captain was killed. Especially if you make it so Voyager was her first taste of Command after being a Science Officer, that would make an interesting arc where she had to cope with the power unexpectedly thrust on her.
    I would make it about the adventures of a ship cut away from the Federation. No resupplies, damage is permanent, limited number of shuttles and photon torpedoes. They would have to balance their high ideals with the reality of their bad situation. Also, there could be tensions between two mortal enemy factions who are at war with each other, but are forced to work together on the same ship.

    Voyager, done properly, would basically be BSG with no RTF, civilian government, or Baltar.

    It would be a very interesting show, but I don't think the old-school trekkies who watched TOS as it originally aired would go for it.

    If you included a large, alien group of refugees voyager was forced to take on in the beginning instead of two random people that might add something. Stress the crew and characters and create opportunities for conflict or something.

    They had plenty of potential conflict that was ignored in that half of their crew were Maquis.

    steam_sig.png
  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    jclast wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Here's an interesting topic I've been musing on, thanks to watching lots of SF Debris reviews: If one could do Voyager all over again from the start, how would one improve it and avoid the mistakes it made?

    An angle I would be interested in would be that Janeway was actually First Officer and had to take charge after the Captain was killed. Especially if you make it so Voyager was her first taste of Command after being a Science Officer, that would make an interesting arc where she had to cope with the power unexpectedly thrust on her.
    I would make it about the adventures of a ship cut away from the Federation. No resupplies, damage is permanent, limited number of shuttles and photon torpedoes. They would have to balance their high ideals with the reality of their bad situation. Also, there could be tensions between two mortal enemy factions who are at war with each other, but are forced to work together on the same ship.

    Voyager, done properly, would basically be BSG with no RTF, civilian government, or Baltar.

    It would be a very interesting show, but I don't think the old-school trekkies who watched TOS as it originally aired would go for it.

    If you included a large, alien group of refugees voyager was forced to take on in the beginning instead of two random people that might add something. Stress the crew and characters and create opportunities for conflict or something.

    They had plenty of potential conflict that was ignored in that half of their crew were Maquis.

    Large group of separatist rebel terrorist? We can squander that! Yeah I totally forgot that.

    He's a superhumanly strong soccer-playing romance novelist possessed of the uncanny powers of an insect. She's a beautiful African-American doctor with her own daytime radio talk show. They fight crime!
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Here's an interesting topic I've been musing on, thanks to watching lots of SF Debris reviews: If one could do Voyager all over again from the start, how would one improve it and avoid the mistakes it made?

    An angle I would be interested in would be that Janeway was actually First Officer and had to take charge after the Captain was killed. Especially if you make it so Voyager was her first taste of Command after being a Science Officer, that would make an interesting arc where she had to cope with the power unexpectedly thrust on her.
    I would make it about the adventures of a ship cut away from the Federation. No resupplies, damage is permanent, limited number of shuttles and photon torpedoes. They would have to balance their high ideals with the reality of their bad situation. Also, there could be tensions between two mortal enemy factions who are at war with each other, but are forced to work together on the same ship.

    Voyager, done properly, would basically be BSG with no RTF, civilian government, or Baltar.

    It would be a very interesting show, but I don't think the old-school trekkies who watched TOS as it originally aired would go for it.

    Well no one liked it as it was, so I'm not sure that changing it that way to be BSG would have made it more unpopular.

    True.

    sig.png
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Richy wrote: »
    Here's an interesting topic I've been musing on, thanks to watching lots of SF Debris reviews: If one could do Voyager all over again from the start, how would one improve it and avoid the mistakes it made?

    An angle I would be interested in would be that Janeway was actually First Officer and had to take charge after the Captain was killed. Especially if you make it so Voyager was her first taste of Command after being a Science Officer, that would make an interesting arc where she had to cope with the power unexpectedly thrust on her.
    I would make it about the adventures of a ship cut away from the Federation. No resupplies, damage is permanent, limited number of shuttles and photon torpedoes. They would have to balance their high ideals with the reality of their bad situation. Also, there could be tensions between two mortal enemy factions who are at war with each other, but are forced to work together on the same ship.

    Voyager, done properly, would basically be BSG with no RTF, civilian government, or Baltar.

    It would be a very interesting show, but I don't think the old-school trekkies who watched TOS as it originally aired would go for it.

    If you included a large, alien group of refugees voyager was forced to take on in the beginning instead of two random people that might add something. Stress the crew and characters and create opportunities for conflict or something.

    Better yet, the Maquis ship they encountered could have been a Maquis colony ship. They'd still have all the Maquis military personnel like before, but also civilians who are sympathetic to the Maquis and hate Starfleet and who want to setup their own civilian authority. You also have an explanation for where Voyager (a military ship on a short-range mission) has a ton of supplies and can be self-sustaining.

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Richy wrote: »
    Here's an interesting topic I've been musing on, thanks to watching lots of SF Debris reviews: If one could do Voyager all over again from the start, how would one improve it and avoid the mistakes it made?

    An angle I would be interested in would be that Janeway was actually First Officer and had to take charge after the Captain was killed. Especially if you make it so Voyager was her first taste of Command after being a Science Officer, that would make an interesting arc where she had to cope with the power unexpectedly thrust on her.
    I would make it about the adventures of a ship cut away from the Federation. No resupplies, damage is permanent, limited number of shuttles and photon torpedoes. They would have to balance their high ideals with the reality of their bad situation. Also, there could be tensions between two mortal enemy factions who are at war with each other, but are forced to work together on the same ship.

    Voyager, done properly, would basically be BSG with no RTF, civilian government, or Baltar.

    It would be a very interesting show, but I don't think the old-school trekkies who watched TOS as it originally aired would go for it.

    I think you could bring some of them onboard if done right. You'd want to go for a different feel then BSG.

    Voyager, in fact, could have been a defining Star Trek show. About how humanity really has evolved and though isolated from the Federation, Voyager struggles, they eventually come through and learn to work together and build something.


    An idea I had would have been to have Voyager collect other refugees and ships and the like (the Borg would be good for setting this kind of thing up to) and essentially form their own group of ships working together for common purpose. Like basically they export the Federation and it's ideals to the Delta Quadrant and show how they still work.

  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Richy wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Here's an interesting topic I've been musing on, thanks to watching lots of SF Debris reviews: If one could do Voyager all over again from the start, how would one improve it and avoid the mistakes it made?

    An angle I would be interested in would be that Janeway was actually First Officer and had to take charge after the Captain was killed. Especially if you make it so Voyager was her first taste of Command after being a Science Officer, that would make an interesting arc where she had to cope with the power unexpectedly thrust on her.
    I would make it about the adventures of a ship cut away from the Federation. No resupplies, damage is permanent, limited number of shuttles and photon torpedoes. They would have to balance their high ideals with the reality of their bad situation. Also, there could be tensions between two mortal enemy factions who are at war with each other, but are forced to work together on the same ship.

    Voyager, done properly, would basically be BSG with no RTF, civilian government, or Baltar.

    It would be a very interesting show, but I don't think the old-school trekkies who watched TOS as it originally aired would go for it.

    If you included a large, alien group of refugees voyager was forced to take on in the beginning instead of two random people that might add something. Stress the crew and characters and create opportunities for conflict or something.

    Better yet, the Maquis ship they encountered could have been a Maquis colony ship. They'd still have all the Maquis military personnel like before, but also civilians who are sympathetic to the Maquis and hate Starfleet and who want to setup their own civilian authority. You also have an explanation for where Voyager (a military ship on a short-range mission) has a ton of supplies and can be self-sustaining.

    But then you kind of run into the problem of "why the hell don't they just drop the Maquis off on the next uninhabited Class M planet they find."

    sig.png
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Richy wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Here's an interesting topic I've been musing on, thanks to watching lots of SF Debris reviews: If one could do Voyager all over again from the start, how would one improve it and avoid the mistakes it made?

    An angle I would be interested in would be that Janeway was actually First Officer and had to take charge after the Captain was killed. Especially if you make it so Voyager was her first taste of Command after being a Science Officer, that would make an interesting arc where she had to cope with the power unexpectedly thrust on her.
    I would make it about the adventures of a ship cut away from the Federation. No resupplies, damage is permanent, limited number of shuttles and photon torpedoes. They would have to balance their high ideals with the reality of their bad situation. Also, there could be tensions between two mortal enemy factions who are at war with each other, but are forced to work together on the same ship.

    Voyager, done properly, would basically be BSG with no RTF, civilian government, or Baltar.

    It would be a very interesting show, but I don't think the old-school trekkies who watched TOS as it originally aired would go for it.

    If you included a large, alien group of refugees voyager was forced to take on in the beginning instead of two random people that might add something. Stress the crew and characters and create opportunities for conflict or something.

    Better yet, the Maquis ship they encountered could have been a Maquis colony ship. They'd still have all the Maquis military personnel like before, but also civilians who are sympathetic to the Maquis and hate Starfleet and who want to setup their own civilian authority. You also have an explanation for where Voyager (a military ship on a short-range mission) has a ton of supplies and can be self-sustaining.

    But then you kind of run into the problem of "why the hell don't they just drop the Maquis off on the next uninhabited Class M planet they find."

    Because the colonists want to get back to the Alpha Quadrant, and Voyager doesn't want to abandon a human colony with federation-level technology and no defences in the middle of Kazon space?

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Right, I'm an idiot.

    sig.png
  • AtomikaAtomika Social Justice Mage + 12 charm/-5 lockpickingRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I don't know if I ever need to see a serialized Trek TV show again, but if they just have to do another, I hope they let Ron Moore be the showrunner.


    As much as I liked TNG, Voyager and Enterprise seemed to draw most of their inspiration from it, which ended up giving us copies of copies of what was a franchise reboot anyway. So, they sucked. TNG was pretty heavy on the philosophical aspects of science-fiction, so being aped on Voyager and Enterprise just looked like the latter two shows were written by nitwits fond of their own vapid purpleness.


    A good Star Trek show would be much like Moore's BSG; a lot of fightin', and a lot of thinkin', and a lot of thinkin' about why we're fightin'.

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Voyager's premise is FANTASTIC. It makes the overall failure of the show all the more painful.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Voyager had great actors, for its time great effects, a good premise(ship lost 70 years from home). What it didn't have was good writers/producers. Its flogging a dead horse, but Berman and Braga really sucked.

    Take 7 of 9, the reason she got so much focus once she joined? Jeri Ryan was banging Braga at the time. That crappy vulcan actor that was not Tuvok(Tuvok was Awsome)? He was the stepson of one of the creators(the one that wasn't B&B).

    I read the "manual" they published for the fans on the making of Voyager. Their concept of the villains(the Kazon birdheads) in the first few seasons? Crips and Bloods. Yes, Voyager fought gangbangers in outerspace!(not homeboys).

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Set the new series in the Mirror, Mirror universe. Have it be about the rebuilding of the Terran Empire. TV is all about the amoral bastard now anyway.

  • Orochi_RockmanOrochi_Rockman __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2011
    Richy wrote: »
    Garak is clearly the best recurring character.

    Apart from Morn, obviously. How could you top that?
    Morn had the best lines.

    You know they intentionally rigged his costume so that that his mouth could move and he could actually talk, they just never gave him any lines and decided that keeping him silent was more amusing.

  • TheHopelessGamerTheHopelessGamer Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I'd love to see a new Trek series in a style of the West Wing. A totally political show from the viewpoint of the president of the Federation having to constantly juggle all these different species vying for attention and resources while his plucky staff deal with like in 24th century (is this right?) San Francisco. As much as I liked the 2009 movie, it gives me the impression that a very mature, non-actiony direction is not what we're going to be seeing in Trek's future.

  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Set the new series in the Mirror, Mirror universe. Have it be about the rebuilding of the Terran Empire. TV is all about the amoral bastard now anyway.

    The trend of GRIMDARK MURKY MORALS OH LAWD makes for a *perfect* time to reintroduce a TNG style show. A highly principled leader who effortlessly commands respect and loyalty. Hope and optimism, and the idea that maybe, just maybe, we're going to become something wonderful in the future.

  • LionLion Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I don't know if I ever need to see a serialized Trek TV show again, but if they just have to do another, I hope they let Ron Moore be the showrunner.

    No. No, fuck that. Ron Moore is a talented individual but he should never be a show runner again. Watching his evolution of storytelling through TNG and BSG, he really needs someone to reign him in. He needs someone to have veto power over him to make his ideas work. Those people also need to be competent, which is why his work on DS9 is great. As opposed to the only compelling Voyager episodes about their situation which were subsequently glossed over for more reset buttons.

    I'm perfectly happy with the movies being the only flag bearers of the Star Trek franchise. That's the best chance for things to not get fucked up all over again.

    PSN: WingedLion | XBL: Winged Lion
  • LucidLucid Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I never want to see a BSG edgy style Star Trek show. This is completely missing the point of the biggest themes of star trek. The humanity of Star Trek is supposed to be as different from us ideologically as we are from people hundreds of years ago, maybe moreso.

    I like that in the Star Trek universe, we as humans have become the aliens so to speak. This is illustrated well in the first contact or who watches the watchers episodes. Even through the early 90s sci fi television cheesiness.

    Granted the backstory could use some adjusting/retconning, because I can't imagine such vast changes happening in a few hundred years, but still. This is what I like about Star Trek. The triumph of rationalism. We face new challenges, not internal human squabbling so much(although it is interesting to see happen on an individual or smaller scale).

    Voyager and Enterprise failed largely because of poor writing and structure, not because they tried too hard to mimic TNG.
    I'd say there was a huge difference.

    Drumhead, it was shown to be a bad thing(tm.) The people who did BAD THINGS were not portrayed as nice. It was a very special episode for Worf.

    It's Our Hero who condones murder, treachery, and lies. Moreover, he did it with the most reasonable of intentions, and it worked out. He even managed to live with himself after.

    One is "We're better than that". The other?

    "Guess what? Sometimes war means playing dirty."
    I think my point is being missed. The dramatic tone was the same in both episodes. Painting the ideals being toyed with as negative. Sisko certaily acknowledged this, even if not directly. The major difference was the type of conflict they were in. They were both similar in that they showed the federation still had to deal with people willing to stretch their ideals. I'd say the DS9 episode would've ended similarly if not for the fact that it was part of a longer story arc. Hell, Worf's hatred/distrust of Romulans lingered for quite a while after and before Drumhead. He wasn't suddenly cured of specism after the episode was done.

    Also, who are these bad people you're talking about? The officer who presided over the court in Drumhead was portrayed as an intelligent old friend of Picard who got caught up in the paranoia and hysteria of a cold war. Not as some villain. She also felt the burden of legacy from her famous father. She wasn't portrayed as a villainous frothing at the mouth Romulan hater. She had a similar dilemma to Sisko, just that in her case her behaviour wasn't justified in the end.

    No museum needs another upside-down toilet bowl once it has one.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Robman wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Set the new series in the Mirror, Mirror universe. Have it be about the rebuilding of the Terran Empire. TV is all about the amoral bastard now anyway.

    The trend of GRIMDARK MURKY MORALS OH LAWD makes for a *perfect* time to reintroduce a TNG style show. A highly principled leader who effortlessly commands respect and loyalty. Hope and optimism, and the idea that maybe, just maybe, we're going to become something wonderful in the future.

    Agreed. Dark like that is not what Star Trek is about. Which doesn't mean it can't go dark places, it just means you are supposed to come out of it not a wreck.

    And Voyager could have really been that. It had, as everyone says, a great premise and actors and everything. And just absolutely shit writing.


    Also, RDM would do great as long as he was second in command with someone levelheaded above him keeping him in line.

  • RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I don't care to see another Trek tv show any time soon, but we could only be so fortunate for RDM to be showrunner.

  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    If they ever do a completely new Star Trek series, they really need to actually have a crew that is more representative of the whole Federation IMO. I recently re-watched Enterprise and I want to see more Andorians and Tellarites and all the other bizarre species out there.

    Make the Captain an alien...no not a half human/alien hybrid. No more spocks or B'elannas. We need a real full alien Captain and even make humans in the minority.

  • LucidLucid Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Humans aren't the minority in starfleet though, they're the majority. They do need to have a stronger more prominent female cast though.

    No museum needs another upside-down toilet bowl once it has one.
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited May 2011
    I wonder sometimes if the realities of television production in HD combined with the modern expectation of TV shows having near-movie-quality effects means that any discussion of a future Star Trek series is kind of moot. Doctor Who is a huge hit in its native UK, nabbing a percentage of the viewing audience unlike almost anything we have here, and they still have to constantly take advantage of re-using sets and monsters and being very sparing with visual effects and location shoots to cut costs.

  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    If you haven't seen the Star Trek reviews by RedLetterMedia and SFDebris, you should check them out.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h06WKYFYdlo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyhJeZtBw78

    If you watch nothing else, watch this one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNFP1R4leYQ

    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • AtomikaAtomika Social Justice Mage + 12 charm/-5 lockpickingRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    I wonder sometimes if the realities of television production in HD combined with the modern expectation of TV shows having near-movie-quality effects means that any discussion of a future Star Trek series is kind of moot. Doctor Who is a huge hit in its native UK, nabbing a percentage of the viewing audience unlike almost anything we have here, and they still have to constantly take advantage of re-using sets and monsters and being very sparing with visual effects and location shoots to cut costs.

    Well, Star Trek has the built-in benefit of being centralized to just the one main set: the Enterprise.

    Though it may behoove whoever decides to green-light another Trek show to follow the premium cable model, a la HBO or FX, and offset the higher production values with smaller, more-condensed episode runs that tell a single narrative.

    Because seriously? I don't need a 24-episode season of one-off faffing around in the Trekverse.



    And my idea of a new series would be somewhat of a return to the OS ideas and get back to actual exploration of space and the conflicts of new races coming into contact with each other. So much of the Brannon/Braga era was just boring-ass consular meetings and diplomat escorting.

    Oh, and FFS let's get away from the "tiny piece of latex on my forehead makes me an alien" school of design creativity.

  • ShadowfireShadowfire Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Also every series but DS9 is coming to netflix instant on July first.

    What the fuck? I thought it was all series...

    You have seriously crushed my dreams tonight. :(

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  • GeodGeod swim, swim, hungryRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Also every series but DS9 is coming to netflix instant on July first.

    What the fuck? I thought it was all series...

    You have seriously crushed my dreams tonight. :(

    DS9 starts October 1 :(

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  • ShadowfireShadowfire Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Geod wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Also every series but DS9 is coming to netflix instant on July first.

    What the fuck? I thought it was all series...

    You have seriously crushed my dreams tonight. :(

    DS9 starts October 1 :(

    Hrm...

    This is.. acceptable, but only just.

    Seriously, do we know what the delay is? Is it just "we want to make sure Babylon 5 is gone before we start showing DS9?" I mean, I could understand their concern because DS9 is good, but not that good.
    Spoiler:

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    It's kind of a tough call with where I'd want a new series to go. Overarching story or monster of the week? Enlightened Humanity or just a "Three meals from revolution" Veneer? On the whole, I think a balance of both would be good.

    What interested me about the Season 4 Enterprise I watched was it seemed to be doing small two-or-three part story arcs, which left room for some monster of the week stuff to mix things up. As great as DS9 was, I can see how the war arc would leave little room for one-offs. A good example of the possible disjoint would be SFDebris' review of "Badda Bing Badda Bang", where as most of the main cast prepare to rip off the holographic mafia, he has Quark sarcastically say "So how's that whole Dominion War thing coming on, huh? They still control Troi's homeworld?"

    As for how enlightened Humanity should be, I think it should be more of a struggle. The Federation should aspire to their ideals - maybe with a reformed Prime Directive - but humans are humans. We won't be infallible, we'll make mistakes, and certain dilemmas will definately be lose-lose. This said, the crew should never stop aspiring to follow those guidelines. We can't all be Captain Picard, but if we fail, we pick ourselves up and try again.

    I'd definately like to see more Andorians. Early Enterprise bored me, but I liked Shran.

  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    A new series with the Federation on the brink of collapse could be cool. In fact, wasn't that the premise of Andromeda, in a way? That could keep that cool grimdark future theme that people love, but they could also have the hope-y aspect of TOS and TNG in trying to keep it all held together.

    Also, have the crew consist of at LEAST 1 human, 1 Vulcan, 1 Tellerite, and 1 Andorian. I'm a mark for the Founding Four.

    I mean, seriously, every other series has dealt with a different aspect of the Federation in one way or another. TOS was the Wild West expansion phase. TNG was the exploration/diplomacy phase. DS9 dealt with the Federation in war time. Voyager tried to show how a Starfleet crew would act in the absence of the Federation. Enterprise was based around the founding of the Federation. I think the collapse of the Federation would be a logical conclusion of that theme.

    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • LucidLucid Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I mean, seriously, every other series has dealt with a different aspect of the Federation in one way or another. TOS was the Wild West expansion phase. TNG was the exploration/diplomacy phase. DS9 dealt with the Federation in war time. Voyager tried to show how a Starfleet crew would act in the absence of the Federation. Enterprise was based around the founding of the Federation. I think the collapse of the Federation would be a logical conclusion of that theme.
    I don't know, There isn't really any reason I can think of why the Federation would collapse. At least internally. No struggles over resources, no ideological conflicts, etc. Aside from the iconography and logos it's not really like any modern institution. There's no downside to being in the federation for the most part. The ones who don't get or want to join are species that are either too different or are socially lagging. They just keep a distance from them, unless forced otherwise like the dominion. Nobody is forced to join or stay. There may be some citizens that are discontent with things, but they're so insignificant a minority that the conflict they could muster would be irrelevant.

    The Federation only seems monolithic, when it's really pretty chilled out. Like a lot of science fiction television some aspects of it don't hold together under scrutiny. It's kind of a boring institution, which is why it probably wouldn't work well as a focal point.

    I think the exploration angle is what needs to be delved into more. That's the strongest area of star trek, and its primary theme for most of its run. Encountering strange new worlds and such.That's where the creativity of the show shines brightest I believe. Just ramp up the weirdness, get some more interesting aliens, update the technology. Some of my favorite episodes where the weird things happening ones. Like when Riker had a duplicate made through a transporter accident. I liked how they mixed in various scientific theories thematically like that.

    I'd pretty much just like to see a update to classic star trek/tng but just better. I mean, they're good programs but not easy to watch in some ways. Kind of preachy at times, and effects leave something to be desired. Update some of the themes to reflect modern issues and struggles much like the older series did for things going on during the times they were made. They could also expand on a lot of themes they only touched on in TNG, like trouble communicating with aliens, or first contact. I agree with the multi episode arc idea mentioned earlier.

    I just don't think cynicism and star trek really mesh well together.

    No museum needs another upside-down toilet bowl once it has one.
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    I wonder sometimes if the realities of television production in HD combined with the modern expectation of TV shows having near-movie-quality effects means that any discussion of a future Star Trek series is kind of moot. Doctor Who is a huge hit in its native UK, nabbing a percentage of the viewing audience unlike almost anything we have here, and they still have to constantly take advantage of re-using sets and monsters and being very sparing with visual effects and location shoots to cut costs.

    Yes but that's traditional for Doctor Who. It's always had a threadbare budget. I'm fairly sure the older series used every quarry in Wales at some point.

  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    jclast wrote: »
    They had plenty of potential conflict that was ignored in that half of their crew were Maquis.

    Large group of separatist rebel terrorist? We can squander that! Yeah I totally forgot that.
    DS9 gets the Maquis foisted upon them just so they can play a significant role in Voyager without having to spend a lot of episodes introducing them and what they're about.

    In the end, the DS9 Maquis get wiped out off-screen and that's still more than what they did with them on Voyager.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    jclast wrote: »
    They had plenty of potential conflict that was ignored in that half of their crew were Maquis.

    Large group of separatist rebel terrorist? We can squander that! Yeah I totally forgot that.
    DS9 gets the Maquis foisted upon them just so they can play a significant role in Voyager without having to spend a lot of episodes introducing them and what they're about.

    In the end, the DS9 Maquis get wiped out off-screen and that's still more than what they did with them on Voyager.

    Yeah. I liked the idea of establishing the Maquis on TNG and DS9 before Voyager. It's just a shame that went almost nowhere.

    Another reason why I'm interested in the Janeway-thrust-into-the-role-of-captain angle: If you had Chakotay as someone who was already a commander for many years, possibly about to become a captain himself before he joined the Maquis, then you have a dynamic of an inexperienced captain dealing with a first officer who could easily assume control if he wanted, so this would force her to adapt to the situation and emerge a better character for it. However they instead went with the strong captain that everyone's glad to follow, which is a shame. And then they couldn't keep her character consistent.

  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    I wonder sometimes if the realities of television production in HD combined with the modern expectation of TV shows having near-movie-quality effects means that any discussion of a future Star Trek series is kind of moot. Doctor Who is a huge hit in its native UK, nabbing a percentage of the viewing audience unlike almost anything we have here, and they still have to constantly take advantage of re-using sets and monsters and being very sparing with visual effects and location shoots to cut costs.

    Yes but that's traditional for Doctor Who. It's always had a threadbare budget. I'm fairly sure the older series used every quarry in Wales at some point.

    They could probably do a low budget sitcom about a bunch of Young Wesley Crushers in Starfleet Academy getting into wacky hijinks.

  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    A star trek Tv Series would be competing with the fact that there are 600 episodes of star trek already. Not to mention half a dozen other series with competing premises. BSG, Firefly, Babylon 5, Farscape and Stargate to mention the top 5. Thats post apocalyptic, wild west, epic saga, strange worlds/Aliens and Modern-day earthlings meet the universe premise right there.

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
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