Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

NBA: Jordan Leading the Bobcats to the promised land.

15253555758101

Posts

  • The Raging PlatypusThe Raging Platypus Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    CARMELO ANTHONY IS A BOSS



    HAHA, NO WAIT, HE IS YOUR BOSS'S BOSS

    The Raging Platypus on
    Spoiler:
  • ElldrenElldren 3067-6294-6208Registered User regular
    He is also his boss's boss

    (see: MDA)

  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    Btw, what on fucking earth happened to Lamar Odom?

  • So It GoesSo It Goes Well, that seems pretty ludicrous.Registered User regular
  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    Rose-led Bulls lose a thriller to Knicks; Rose-less Bulls beat Knicks easily next game.

    Man, I don't know what to think. Without Rose, the Bulls have been able to beat (I think) all the top contenders in the East.

    camo_sig.png
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    Guys seem to do a lot more standing around and watching when Rose plays. I dont think its much Rose's fault as it is, the team has this mentality of letting Rose carry them. And a big part of the problem is that Rose isnt 100%. So they are relying on a dude who is still hurt, who hasnt had any games to get his rythm back, to carry them.

    That being said, if Rose and Rip ever get healthy and can play together consistantly, that team should be fun to watch. When Rip is spreading the floor, even without Rose, the Bulls seemed to have a lot better ball movement.

    616610-1.png
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    jackisreal wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    jackisreal wrote: »
    Guess when I will get tired of watching Griffin dunk on Gasol. Never. The answer is never.

    If only he could play basketball, too!

    He's averaging 22/11.6/3.5/1 demoralizing dunk on pure athleticism. If he ever gets a real coach he could be something special

    On phone so ill save you my anti blake diatribe but...Did you watch the game tonight? Dude was turrble

    He's great for the highlight reel and I don't actually think he's awful, but he just doesn't perform well in critical moments or dominate any sort of real defense on a consistent basis

    Kia and posters do not a game winning player make

    As was said previously: "If he ever gets a real coach he could be something special"

    I don't know how many Clippers game you watch, but Vinny of the Black constantly has Blake iso-ing from 20+ feet out. Like he's Durant or something. Even Dirk doesn't iso from 20+ feet anymore.

    If Vinny wasn't such a freaking moron, he'd see several problems with this. Such as the fact that Blake is a very weak dribbler going left. Such as the fact that Blake's favorite off-the-dribble move is a spin move that leaves him blind to help defenders coming from his blindside. Such as the fact that Blake doesn't have a wet jumper with endless range like Kevin freaking Durant!

    So why are you playing him like Durant Vinny you damn idiot?!?!
    Sorry, got carried away a bit there, but the points in the paragraph stand.

    Vinny is, at best, trying to play Blake like David West, running pick-n-pop with CP3. Blake ought to be setting picks and rolling hard to the rim, like a young Kemp, Amare, or Karl Malone. None of those guys spent their 2nd year shooting 20 foot jumpers all game (though they each developed outside jumpers later in their respective careers).

    At any rate, Vinny needs to go.

    Also WTF how did all the California teams end up with such bad coaches all at once?

    OremLK wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Goran Dragic is going to get paid next year

    It better be by the Rockets, or I will throttle Daryl Morey for letting him get away after all these seasons of hunting for a replacement all-star.

    Uh, Kyle Lowry wasn't exactly stinking up the joint before his injury. And Lowry is a top 3 defender at PG, at worst.

  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    At some point, the Spurs are going to figure out that putting a 6' 5" fat man with no knee ligaments in your frontcourt to complement the Ghost of Tim Duncan is not nearly the same as having a legit 7-footer out there in the middle.

    Wishing the franchise all the worst things in life, some may hope they never puzzle out what is wrong with giving playing time to F/C DeJuan Blair. Even if they watch Blair get dominated by (legit 7-footer) Marc Gasol in the postseason again. Even if Blair and Splitter join forces to allow (legit 7-footer) Andrew Bynum to have another career 30-rebound night. Even if all that happens once again, purported coaching mastermind Gregg Popovich may still scratch his head, wondering why oh why his team is so routinely and convincingly punished by length.

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    ???

    "Purported" coaching mastermind Popovich?

    He's got 4 rings. There are HOF coaches with fewer. The Memphis thing happened, but that's just one series. The Lakers got embarrassed in the playoffs last year, does mean Phil Jackson is only a "purported" coaching mastermind?

    It's well-established that Pops couldn't give 2 shits about the regular season. Although if anything, I bet he was baffled that Metta World Peace has morphed into something resembling the All-Star he used to be, rather than the candidate for "worst starter in the NBA" that he's been all year.

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Also, THIS happened last night

    BubbaT on
  • y2jake215y2jake215 The No Flex ZoneRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Also, THIS happened last night

    *snip*

    Are you allowed to push away a block attempt? Legitimately asking, because Griffin basically high fived Ibaka and pushed his arm away with his off hand

    y2jake215 on
    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    These glimpses behind the curtain regarding which NBA coaches are total idiots and know no more about coaching NBA basketball than a casual fan on the internet, and which coaches have had past postseason successes and are therefore beyond reproach for all time, have been invaluable.

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    These glimpses behind the curtain regarding which NBA coaches are total idiots and know no more about coaching NBA basketball than a casual fan on the internet, and which coaches have had past postseason successes and are therefore beyond reproach for all time, have been invaluable.

    Fine, here are objective facts, with no opinion or analysis from some random poster on the internet:

    Pops has 4 rings.
    Vinny hasn't won a playoff series.

    Pops has a .677 winning % in the regular season.
    Vinny has a .490 winning % in the regular season.

    Pops has a .597 winning % in the playoffs.
    Vinny has a .333 winning % in the playoffs.

  • PellaeonPellaeon Registered User regular
    Form, as the most causal of NBA fans these days I'm a bit confused as to what you're complaining about. Do the spurs have some seven footer, legit or otherwise, that they should be playing more, but aren't because pops is teh dumbz? Or is it that they don't have any big men at all?

  • y2jake215y2jake215 The No Flex ZoneRegistered User regular
    They did pick up Boris Diaw. They don't need anyone else

    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • McAllenMcAllen Registered User regular
    Pellaeon wrote: »
    Form, as the most causal of NBA fans these days I'm a bit confused as to what you're complaining about. Do the spurs have some seven footer, legit or otherwise, that they should be playing more, but aren't because pops is teh dumbz? Or is it that they don't have any big men at all?

    not enough tiago + duncan too many bricks and slop from blair and bonbon

  • FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    Pop is doing a dynamite job considering what he has to work with. The past few years the Spurs have picked low in the draft and have avoided free agency, yet somehow they've managed to develop a solid supporting cast for their big three. It's not the best, but legit 7-footers who are also actually good at basketball are few and far between, and very difficult to attain for a team like the Spurs.

    Picture1-4.png
  • y2jake215y2jake215 The No Flex ZoneRegistered User regular
    legit 7-footers who are also actually good at basketball are few and far between, and very difficult to attain for a team like the Spurs.

    Just look at the contract Deandre Jordan got, while he's 95th in the league in PER at 16.56 (14 slots behind DeJuan Blair, at 17.17, and a slot in front of Kahwi Leonard at 16.54)

    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    legit 7-footers who are also actually good at basketball are few and far between, and very difficult to attain for a team like the Spurs.

    Just look at the contract Deandre Jordan got, while he's 95th in the league in PER at 16.56 (14 slots behind DeJuan Blair, at 17.17, and a slot in front of Kahwi Leonard at 16.54)

    To be fair, Jordan's contract is based as much, if not more, on future potential than where he is as a player right now.

    However, your point is correct. Look at Kwame Brown, he got a 1 year deal for $7 million. Kwame has virtually no potential left - and even if he did somehow improve significantly, it's only a 1 year deal so he could just leave. There was no long-term benefit to GS either way, but that's just how high a premium there is on size today.

  • y2jake215y2jake215 The No Flex ZoneRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    BubbaT wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    legit 7-footers who are also actually good at basketball are few and far between, and very difficult to attain for a team like the Spurs.

    Just look at the contract Deandre Jordan got, while he's 95th in the league in PER at 16.56 (14 slots behind DeJuan Blair, at 17.17, and a slot in front of Kahwi Leonard at 16.54)

    To be fair, Jordan's contract is based as much, if not more, on future potential than where he is as a player right now.

    However, your point is correct. Look at Kwame Brown, he got a 1 year deal for $7 million. Kwame has virtually no potential left - and even if he did somehow improve significantly, it's only a 1 year deal so he could just leave. There was no long-term benefit to GS either way, but that's just how high a premium there is on size today.

    I guess another thing to look at will be how much JaVale McGee gets this offseason, when he's got about as good of a chance of staying a knucklehead as growing into his great ability.

    y2jake215 on
    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    Tell you what:

    If the short, fat, unathletic F/C's of DeJuan Blair and Boris Diaw don't end up being enormous liabilities in terms of defense and rebounding disparity in the playoffs against teams with actual size, then feel free to told-you-so me in this very thread.

  • ElldrenElldren 3067-6294-6208Registered User regular
    We'll get a look at if "that Memphis thing" could happen again this year tonight

  • y2jake215y2jake215 The No Flex ZoneRegistered User regular
    Tell you what:

    If the short, fat, unathletic F/C's of DeJuan Blair and Boris Diaw don't end up being enormous liabilities in terms of defense and rebounding disparity in the playoffs against teams with actual size, then feel free to told-you-so me in this very thread.

    They may in fact end up doing so. I'm just not sure what you think Popovich could've done about it. The Spurs had no cap room this past off-season to try to sign a Deandre Jordan, Marc Gasol, etc. I'm not sure they even had the room for Dalembert. And there was no one in the draft who would've made a significant difference in size/defense that they could pick at 29. The only people they could've gotten at 15 (and I don't know the exact way the trade with the Pacers went down, so I don't even know if these are possibilities) were Faried (6'8 and not a great defender yet) and Vucevic, who while 7'0 is not exactly ready to play big playoff minutes. There just wasn't a viable way to obtain that big guy.

    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • UnknownSaintUnknownSaint Registered User
    edited April 2012
    Elldren wrote: »
    We'll get a look at if "that Memphis thing" could happen again this year tonight

    I really don't think this game would be very indicative of how a playoff series would go, necessarily. A lot of teams are coasting into the playoffs right now, not giving a fuck about seeding so long as you don't draw OKC or Miami/Chicago.

    UnknownSaint on
  • ElldrenElldren 3067-6294-6208Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    We'll get a look at if "that Memphis thing" could happen again this year tonight

    I really don't think this game would be very indicative of how a playoff series would go, necessarily. A lot of teams are coasting into the playoffs right now, not giving a fuck about seeding so long as you don't draw OKC or Miami/Chicago.

    Looking at their records over the past couple weeks, I have to say I don't think either Memphis or San Antonio are doing that right now

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    Tell you what:

    If the short, fat, unathletic F/C's of DeJuan Blair and Boris Diaw don't end up being enormous liabilities in terms of defense and rebounding disparity in the playoffs against teams with actual size, then feel free to told-you-so me in this very thread.

    Bynum had 16 points on 35% (7/20) shooting. He wasn't exactly lighting it up out there. Those are both below his season averages of 18 points and 56% shooting, and well below his post-AS averages of 21 points and 58% shooting.

    In fact, it's only the 5th time all season that Bynum has shot under 40% when taking 10+ FGA. It's also only the 5th time all year that Bynum has scored less than 1 point/FGA when taking 10+ FGA.

    So by several metrics, the Spurs were actually playing pretty good defense on Bynum - even with their defenders being fat midgets.

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    We'll get a look at if "that Memphis thing" could happen again this year tonight

    I really don't think this game would be very indicative of how a playoff series would go, necessarily. A lot of teams are coasting into the playoffs right now, not giving a fuck about seeding so long as you don't draw OKC or Miami/Chicago.

    Looking at their records over the past couple weeks, I have to say I don't think either Memphis or San Antonio are doing that right now

    Wasn't there a game the other day where Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili all sat out? That looks like coasting to me.

    I don't know why, when they're so close to the #1 seed. If it finishes
    1. OKC
    2. SA
    3. Lakers
    4. Clippers
    5. Grizzlies

    then SA is looking at the Lakers in the 2nd round. That's a terrible matchup for them. Whereas if they got the #1 seed they'd be looking at the Clippers in the 2nd round, whom they've historically owned.

    Maybe they think Memphis is so good that the Grizz will take out the Clippers in the 1st round, but that's no sure bet. The Clippers are 2-1 against the Grizz this year, and CP3 prevents them from being an easy out for anyone.

  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Tell you what:

    If the short, fat, unathletic F/C's of DeJuan Blair and Boris Diaw don't end up being enormous liabilities in terms of defense and rebounding disparity in the playoffs against teams with actual size, then feel free to told-you-so me in this very thread.

    They may in fact end up doing so. I'm just not sure what you think Popovich could've done about it. The Spurs had no cap room this past off-season to try to sign a Deandre Jordan, Marc Gasol, etc. I'm not sure they even had the room for Dalembert. And there was no one in the draft who would've made a significant difference in size/defense that they could pick at 29. The only people they could've gotten at 15 (and I don't know the exact way the trade with the Pacers went down, so I don't even know if these are possibilities) were Faried (6'8 and not a great defender yet) and Vucevic, who while 7'0 is not exactly ready to play big playoff minutes. There just wasn't a viable way to obtain that big guy.

    This is the nature of declining championship teams. Your veteran starters start to decline, but are still locked in at big contracts, limiting cap flexibility and the ability to fill roster holes. And so improvements become much more incremental, and much less dramatic. Fan bases respond by getting really, really excited about "Danny Green's 3P% this season!" or "Avery Bradley's man defense!"

    But the Spurs (and indeed, the Celtics as well) are just Kidding Themselves. The significant roster moves were there to be made before the trade deadline, but it would have meant parting with one or more pieces of the Parker-Manu-Duncan or Garnett-Allen-Pierce cores, which obviously has not happened.

    In the Spurs' case, they literally think they were one Manu Ginobili elbow injury away from winning another championship, I kid you not. Their bigs getting shamed by the Grizzlies' bigs--it's like none of that ever happened. Because if it had happened, then the Spurs would have--you know--added a rotation big or two to the lineup. But it didn't happen, so there was no need. This Kool-Aid is delicious!

    In the Celtics' case, they're just happy to be in the playoffs at all in the worst of the two conferences, which is not really a champion's mindset at all.

    Credit goes to the Trailblazers organization for doing what other franchises have been too cowardly to do. If you strongly suspect you don't have the right personnel to make it happen, you blow it up and start over.

    But when you're just out to collect playoff revenue and mindfuck fans for another season, it's more than a little disingenuous.

  • jackisrealjackisreal Registered User
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Also, THIS happened last night

    *snip*

    Are you allowed to push away a block attempt? Legitimately asking, because Griffin basically high fived Ibaka and pushed his arm away with his off hand

    Blake Griffin could bury a shiv in the defender's neck and probably wouldn't get called for a foul

    Maybe the refs would look at it a few days later and call a flagrant-1, tops

    DolphinMechSig.jpg
  • y2jake215y2jake215 The No Flex ZoneRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Tell you what:

    If the short, fat, unathletic F/C's of DeJuan Blair and Boris Diaw don't end up being enormous liabilities in terms of defense and rebounding disparity in the playoffs against teams with actual size, then feel free to told-you-so me in this very thread.

    They may in fact end up doing so. I'm just not sure what you think Popovich could've done about it. The Spurs had no cap room this past off-season to try to sign a Deandre Jordan, Marc Gasol, etc. I'm not sure they even had the room for Dalembert. And there was no one in the draft who would've made a significant difference in size/defense that they could pick at 29. The only people they could've gotten at 15 (and I don't know the exact way the trade with the Pacers went down, so I don't even know if these are possibilities) were Faried (6'8 and not a great defender yet) and Vucevic, who while 7'0 is not exactly ready to play big playoff minutes. There just wasn't a viable way to obtain that big guy.

    This is the nature of declining championship teams. Your veteran starters start to decline, but are still locked in at big contracts, limiting cap flexibility and the ability to fill roster holes. And so improvements become much more incremental, and much less dramatic. Fan bases respond by getting really, really excited about "Danny Green's 3P% this season!" or "Avery Bradley's man defense!"

    But the Spurs (and indeed, the Celtics as well) are just Kidding Themselves. The significant roster moves were there to be made before the trade deadline, but it would have meant parting with one or more pieces of the Parker-Manu-Duncan or Garnett-Allen-Pierce cores, which obviously has not happened.

    In the Spurs' case, they literally think they were one Manu Ginobili elbow injury away from winning another championship, I kid you not. Their bigs getting shamed by the Grizzlies' bigs--it's like none of that ever happened. Because if it had happened, then the Spurs would have--you know--added a rotation big or two to the lineup. But it didn't happen, so there was no need. This Kool-Aid is delicious!

    In the Celtics' case, they're just happy to be in the playoffs at all in the worst of the two conferences, which is not really a champion's mindset at all.

    Credit goes to the Trailblazers organization for doing what other franchises have been too cowardly to do. If you strongly suspect you don't have the right personnel to make it happen, you blow it up and start over.

    But when you're just out to collect playoff revenue and mindfuck fans for another season, it's more than a little disingenuous.

    At least in the Celtics' case (where I'm more knowledgable about the possible moves they could've made) I don't think there was a single thing they could've done to make the team better, even in the long term. No one wanted KG, the only team willing to give up anything for Pierce was apparently New Jersey right before they decided to go with Wallace, and no team that really needed Ray matched up. Might as well make one last run than trade any of the Big 3 for nobodies, when they'll all be off the cap soon anyways

    I'm also not so sure the Spurs are kidding themselves thinking they have a chance, they've been down Manu almost all year and still are a game off the best record in the West

    y2jake215 on
    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    jackisreal wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Also, THIS happened last night

    *snip*

    Are you allowed to push away a block attempt? Legitimately asking, because Griffin basically high fived Ibaka and pushed his arm away with his off hand

    Blake Griffin could bury a shiv in the defender's neck and probably wouldn't get called for a foul

    Maybe the refs would look at it a few days later and call a flagrant-1, tops

    It makes up for when opponents nail him with rebar and try to flip throwing stars into his eyes while they defend him. I know he plays it up, but he gets blasted so regularly (and only sometimes called) that it harkens back to the days of Shaq.

    Walkerdog on MTGO
    TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    "For all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these, 'It might have been.'"





    Miss these guys...

    BubbaT on
  • SyphyreSyphyre A Dangerous Pastime Registered User regular
    Ugh, that's a reminder of one of the more terrible moments in Spurs history, that Duncan had one of his most clutch baskets ever, right before the fatal 0.4.

    Steam ID - Syphyreal --- 3DS Friend Code: 2723-9387-1002
  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Tell you what:

    If the short, fat, unathletic F/C's of DeJuan Blair and Boris Diaw don't end up being enormous liabilities in terms of defense and rebounding disparity in the playoffs against teams with actual size, then feel free to told-you-so me in this very thread.

    They may in fact end up doing so. I'm just not sure what you think Popovich could've done about it. The Spurs had no cap room this past off-season to try to sign a Deandre Jordan, Marc Gasol, etc. I'm not sure they even had the room for Dalembert. And there was no one in the draft who would've made a significant difference in size/defense that they could pick at 29. The only people they could've gotten at 15 (and I don't know the exact way the trade with the Pacers went down, so I don't even know if these are possibilities) were Faried (6'8 and not a great defender yet) and Vucevic, who while 7'0 is not exactly ready to play big playoff minutes. There just wasn't a viable way to obtain that big guy.

    This is the nature of declining championship teams. Your veteran starters start to decline, but are still locked in at big contracts, limiting cap flexibility and the ability to fill roster holes. And so improvements become much more incremental, and much less dramatic. Fan bases respond by getting really, really excited about "Danny Green's 3P% this season!" or "Avery Bradley's man defense!"

    But the Spurs (and indeed, the Celtics as well) are just Kidding Themselves. The significant roster moves were there to be made before the trade deadline, but it would have meant parting with one or more pieces of the Parker-Manu-Duncan or Garnett-Allen-Pierce cores, which obviously has not happened.

    In the Spurs' case, they literally think they were one Manu Ginobili elbow injury away from winning another championship, I kid you not. Their bigs getting shamed by the Grizzlies' bigs--it's like none of that ever happened. Because if it had happened, then the Spurs would have--you know--added a rotation big or two to the lineup. But it didn't happen, so there was no need. This Kool-Aid is delicious!

    In the Celtics' case, they're just happy to be in the playoffs at all in the worst of the two conferences, which is not really a champion's mindset at all.

    Credit goes to the Trailblazers organization for doing what other franchises have been too cowardly to do. If you strongly suspect you don't have the right personnel to make it happen, you blow it up and start over.

    But when you're just out to collect playoff revenue and mindfuck fans for another season, it's more than a little disingenuous.

    At least in the Celtics' case (where I'm more knowledgable about the possible moves they could've made) I don't think there was a single thing they could've done to make the team better, even in the long term. No one wanted KG, the only team willing to give up anything for Pierce was apparently New Jersey right before they decided to go with Wallace, and no team that really needed Ray matched up. Might as well make one last run than trade any of the Big 3 for nobodies, when they'll all be off the cap soon anyways

    I'm also not so sure the Spurs are kidding themselves thinking they have a chance, they've been down Manu almost all year and still are a game off the best record in the West

    Celticstalk: How excited are you about Avery Bradley's man defense as the thing that will really put the Celtics over the top this year? Would you say you're VERY excited or would you say that it is the most exciting thing in your life, ever? There's no option C or D, those are apparently the only ones. It goes back to the whole "kidding themselves" thing.

    I'm not sure I follow what you're saying as far as improvements to the Celtics roster, so feel free to elaborate whenever you have a free minute. That roster is absolutely littered with valuable expiring contracts, if the Celtics were but willing to responsibly act.

    Just in recent history, they very nearly packaged Rondo in several deals. And they were actively shopping Ray Allen before the trade deadline as well, correct? In every case, it seemed like Danny Ainge was either 1) unrealistic about what he could get for an aging star with 1-2 years left in his career 2.) super, super unrealistic about what Rondo is really worth on the open market or 3.) too unwilling or sentimental to pull the trigger even on favorable deals.

    Doesn't flipping a washed up star for young talent on good contracts almost by definition improve your team long term, since the old star won't be playing any longer? And getting rid of a malcontent on the roster whose widdle feewings were hurt because the team attempted to trade him for the best point guard in the game would have been addition by subtraction as well.

    Isn't the reality of the situation that Danny Ainge wants the books clear in the offseason because he (for some reason) seriously believes that Boston will be an attractive destination for free agents this off-season? That was my understanding.

    Ainge didn't want to commit to more money down the line because...he (for some reason) thinks he can lure a max contract player to town and have him play there, so that poor sucker can relive the Paul Pierce By Himself Years, with a different player cast as Pierce? No thanks, players will say! They're not going to want to do that, and most modern players don't give a damn about the Celtics' storied history, either.

    If players aren't coming to the franchise of their own volition, then that leaves improving the team through trades or the draft (using a Clippers pick that will obviously not be very high.) And my suspicion is that Ainge is right on the cusp of Joe Dumarsing the situation and will sign mediocre talent to big long-term contracts out of desperation when that new litany of stars fails to come knocking on Boston's door. He has arguably screwed it up already, even this early into a refit, by making no significant moves before this season's trade deadline.

    Thoughts?

  • y2jake215y2jake215 The No Flex ZoneRegistered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Tell you what:

    If the short, fat, unathletic F/C's of DeJuan Blair and Boris Diaw don't end up being enormous liabilities in terms of defense and rebounding disparity in the playoffs against teams with actual size, then feel free to told-you-so me in this very thread.

    They may in fact end up doing so. I'm just not sure what you think Popovich could've done about it. The Spurs had no cap room this past off-season to try to sign a Deandre Jordan, Marc Gasol, etc. I'm not sure they even had the room for Dalembert. And there was no one in the draft who would've made a significant difference in size/defense that they could pick at 29. The only people they could've gotten at 15 (and I don't know the exact way the trade with the Pacers went down, so I don't even know if these are possibilities) were Faried (6'8 and not a great defender yet) and Vucevic, who while 7'0 is not exactly ready to play big playoff minutes. There just wasn't a viable way to obtain that big guy.

    This is the nature of declining championship teams. Your veteran starters start to decline, but are still locked in at big contracts, limiting cap flexibility and the ability to fill roster holes. And so improvements become much more incremental, and much less dramatic. Fan bases respond by getting really, really excited about "Danny Green's 3P% this season!" or "Avery Bradley's man defense!"

    But the Spurs (and indeed, the Celtics as well) are just Kidding Themselves. The significant roster moves were there to be made before the trade deadline, but it would have meant parting with one or more pieces of the Parker-Manu-Duncan or Garnett-Allen-Pierce cores, which obviously has not happened.

    In the Spurs' case, they literally think they were one Manu Ginobili elbow injury away from winning another championship, I kid you not. Their bigs getting shamed by the Grizzlies' bigs--it's like none of that ever happened. Because if it had happened, then the Spurs would have--you know--added a rotation big or two to the lineup. But it didn't happen, so there was no need. This Kool-Aid is delicious!

    In the Celtics' case, they're just happy to be in the playoffs at all in the worst of the two conferences, which is not really a champion's mindset at all.

    Credit goes to the Trailblazers organization for doing what other franchises have been too cowardly to do. If you strongly suspect you don't have the right personnel to make it happen, you blow it up and start over.

    But when you're just out to collect playoff revenue and mindfuck fans for another season, it's more than a little disingenuous.

    At least in the Celtics' case (where I'm more knowledgable about the possible moves they could've made) I don't think there was a single thing they could've done to make the team better, even in the long term. No one wanted KG, the only team willing to give up anything for Pierce was apparently New Jersey right before they decided to go with Wallace, and no team that really needed Ray matched up. Might as well make one last run than trade any of the Big 3 for nobodies, when they'll all be off the cap soon anyways

    I'm also not so sure the Spurs are kidding themselves thinking they have a chance, they've been down Manu almost all year and still are a game off the best record in the West

    Celticstalk: How excited are you about Avery Bradley's man defense as the thing that will really put the Celtics over the top this year? Would you say you're VERY excited or would you say that it is the most exciting thing in your life, ever? There's no option C or D, those are apparently the only ones. It goes back to the whole "kidding themselves" thing.

    I'm not sure I follow what you're saying as far as improvements to the Celtics roster, so feel free to elaborate whenever you have a free minute. That roster is absolutely littered with valuable expiring contracts, if the Celtics were but willing to responsibly act.

    Just in recent history, they very nearly packaged Rondo in several deals. And they were actively shopping Ray Allen before the trade deadline as well, correct? In every case, it seemed like Danny Ainge was either 1) unrealistic about what he could get for an aging star with 1-2 years left in his career 2.) super, super unrealistic about what Rondo is really worth on the open market or 3.) too unwilling or sentimental to pull the trigger even on favorable deals.

    Doesn't flipping a washed up star for young talent on good contracts almost by definition improve your team long term, since the old star won't be playing any longer? And getting rid of a malcontent on the roster whose widdle feewings were hurt because the team attempted to trade him for the best point guard in the game would have been addition by subtraction as well.

    Isn't the reality of the situation that Danny Ainge wants the books clear in the offseason because he (for some reason) seriously believes that Boston will be an attractive destination for free agents this off-season? That was my understanding.

    Ainge didn't want to commit to more money down the line because...he (for some reason) thinks he can lure a max contract player to town and have him play there, so that poor sucker can relive the Paul Pierce By Himself Years, with a different player cast as Pierce? No thanks, players will say! They're not going to want to do that, and most modern players don't give a damn about the Celtics' storied history, either.

    If players aren't coming to the franchise of their own volition, then that leaves improving the team through trades or the draft (using a Clippers pick that will obviously not be very high.) And my suspicion is that Ainge is right on the cusp of Joe Dumarsing the situation and will sign mediocre talent to big long-term contracts out of desperation when that new litany of stars fails to come knocking on Boston's door. He has arguably screwed it up already, even this early into a refit, by making no significant moves before this season's trade deadline.

    Thoughts?

    I'm actually decently excited about Bradley's D. My expectations have risen from "Possible first round and definite 2nd round exit" to "Well, who knows?" I'm not expecting a title, but at least I don't think they completely suck anymore. The fact is they've been playing a historically good level of defense since they put in Bradley.

    "The lineup data supports the idea that Boston has found itself a defensive lineup for the ages. Check out the carnage on NBA.com's advanced stats tool: When Bradley and Garnett play together, Boston gives up 88.8 points per 100 possessions, allows 38.8 percent shooting and forces nearly one turnover for every assist. This is scary stuff, and it's not one of those small-minute flukes, either -- they've played 658 minutes together.

    You think that's impressive? How's this: When Rondo and Bradley play together, opponents average 82.2 points per 100 possessions.

    That's nearly 20 points below the league average."

    I can live with that. And basically everything I've read has said the Celtics weren't getting any real offers for the big 3. Ainge DID offer Pierce to the Blazers, and got rejected. He tried to send Pierce to the Nets for roughly the same deal as they made with the Blazers, and got denied because they preferred Gerald Wallace. No one wanted KG's expiring deal for anything remotely valuable. And I've come around on wanting Rondo traded - this guy is talented, on a way below market contract, however moody he is it's not keeping him from doing his job, and everyone was floating fake rumors to try to piss him off and lower his trade value.

    If the Celtics can't attract a big free agent, so be it. Trade Pierce next season and blow it up. That's the only real way to rebuild in this league anyway, if you aren't LA or Miami, etc: by sucking for a while. We had our run

    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • So It GoesSo It Goes Well, that seems pretty ludicrous.Registered User regular
    That Roy highlight made me tear up

    Sniffle

    NOPE.
    Vd0n7Bk.jpg
  • clownfoodclownfood packet pusher in the wallsRegistered User regular
    I can taste the repeat fantasy championship. Kneel before the clowns!!

    photo-4798.jpg?_r=1355437546
  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Oh, we are already halfway done with the playoffs? That somehow escaped my notice. I guess I should pay more attention next time.

    In other news. Saints owner Tom Benson bought the Hornets. Plus they just announced the ASG for 2014 in New Orleans. Nice. Lets hope Benson will rebrand the team and bring some stability to the organisation.

    TheBigEasy on
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    The NBA: Where (failed) Tanking Happens



    LMAO @ Francisco Garcia reacting to a game-winner with a facepalm. All the Kings (except #55) look pissed that they won.

  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    Btw, anybody see the Hornets press conference just now? A whole lot of nothing, but one great moment. During the Q&A, an ESPN guy wanted to ask Benson a question - about the Saints! So David Stern stepped in and basically told the guy to fuck off, and if ESPN had a problem with that, they could suck his dick and call him in his office. Sometimes Stern is great!

This discussion has been closed.