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[Canada] Politics of the Democratic Friedmanite Republic of the Government of Harper

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Posts

  • ComahawkComahawk Registered User regular
    Al_wat wrote: »
    So is it looking like Wild Rose might actually win in Alberta?

    Figures. There is actually a conservative I like in Alberta and it becomes a hotly contested election

    Who is the Conservative?

    Also, where are you hearing that Wild Rose has a chance? I have been hearing mostly the opposite of this from anyone I talk to. I'll be honest, I don't follow provincial issues very closely. Although, without any research into it, the Alberta Party seems interesting and might draw my vote away from the Conservatives.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • hawkboxhawkbox Registered User regular
    I'm technically one of the founding members of the Alberta party this time around and while I hope they do well they seem a little to dreamery to me still.

    Virtue flourishes in the most unexpected places.
  • blkmageblkmage Registered User regular
    I believe a number of polls have Wildrose in first and around majority territory.

  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    Comahawk wrote: »
    Al_wat wrote: »
    So is it looking like Wild Rose might actually win in Alberta?

    Figures. There is actually a conservative I like in Alberta and it becomes a hotly contested election

    Who is the Conservative?

    Also, where are you hearing that Wild Rose has a chance? I have been hearing mostly the opposite of this from anyone I talk to. I'll be honest, I don't follow provincial issues very closely. Although, without any research into it, the Alberta Party seems interesting and might draw my vote away from the Conservatives.

    Alison Redford. I've been getting most of my information from the Globe and Mail.

    I don't live in Alberta right now so I'm not exposed to the opinions of the general Alberta public.

  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    I'm hoping the wildrose win, and then the PCs go even farther right. Ideally, in 10 years Alberta will be a smoking wasteland and we can all move on as a nation.

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  • hippofanthippofant Helping Mario save Peach. Registered User regular
    Is it that people don't like Alison Redford? She's sounded pretty smart to me so far. Is it because how Albertan liberals participated in the convention to get her in or just that the PC party brand is stale? Which seems odd, given how the province continues to support the Conservatives federally and how the Albertan economy is doing....

  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    psyck0 wrote: »
    I'm hoping the wildrose win, and then the PCs go even farther right. Ideally, in 10 years Alberta will be a smoking wasteland and we can all move on as a nation.

    jaded much

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    I think it's a mix of a lot of things. She is implementing the .5 alcohol driving law in a haphazard way. There is also the commities that where drawing a salary for years and not meeting and her not demanding the money paid out to those MLA's till recently.

    After 40 years in power I think there needs to be a change. Just sad that the wildrose is going to be the one to do it.

    steam_sig.png
    gamertag: Canadianllama
  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Is it that people don't like Alison Redford? She's sounded pretty smart to me so far. Is it because how Albertan liberals participated in the convention to get her in or just that the PC party brand is stale? Which seems odd, given how the province continues to support the Conservatives federally and how the Albertan economy is doing....

    It seems to me because she had the audacity to open up to other provinces and say "Alberta can be good for everyone" and the Wildrose are basically saying "Fuck everyone but Alberta, I got mine", the types of people who those arguments appeal to are flocking to wildrose.

    I feel like this opinion is heavily clouded by my own bias, though. I want to learn more about the reality of the situation.

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Al_wat wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Is it that people don't like Alison Redford? She's sounded pretty smart to me so far. Is it because how Albertan liberals participated in the convention to get her in or just that the PC party brand is stale? Which seems odd, given how the province continues to support the Conservatives federally and how the Albertan economy is doing....

    It seems to me because she had the audacity to open up to other provinces and say "Alberta can be good for everyone" and the Wildrose are basically saying "Fuck everyone but Alberta, I got mine", the types of people who those arguments appeal to are flocking to wildrose.

    I feel like this opinion is heavily clouded by my own bias, though. I want to learn more about the reality of the situation.
    But really, do any provincial politicians platform on what is good for the country or what is good for my "people" ?

    steam_sig.png
    gamertag: Canadianllama
  • ComahawkComahawk Registered User regular
    psyck0 wrote: »
    I'm hoping the wildrose win, and then the PCs go even farther right. Ideally, in 10 years Alberta will be a smoking wasteland and we can all move on as a nation.

    What is your problem exactly?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    blkmage wrote: »
    I believe a number of polls have Wildrose in first and around majority territory.

    From what I've read, there are polls right now showing everything from a massive PC victory to a razor-thin WR victory. Which, admittedly, is bad news for the PC since they went into this election guaranteed to win a week ago.

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Comahawk wrote: »
    psyck0 wrote: »
    I'm hoping the wildrose win, and then the PCs go even farther right. Ideally, in 10 years Alberta will be a smoking wasteland and we can all move on as a nation.

    What is your problem exactly?

    Alberta obviously.

    I thought that was pretty clear.

  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    With regards to Ontario politics does it appear to anyone that Flaherty is shilling hardcore for the provincial conservatives?

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Comahawk wrote: »
    psyck0 wrote: »
    I'm hoping the wildrose win, and then the PCs go even farther right. Ideally, in 10 years Alberta will be a smoking wasteland and we can all move on as a nation.

    What is your problem exactly?

    Little bit of jealousy I believe.

    steam_sig.png
    gamertag: Canadianllama
  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Those dumbfucks have been running Alberta for 40 years and contributed nothing but "fuck you, I got mine and I ain't sharing" to our national discourse. They're leaving Alberta with the prospect of absolutely no economy whatsoever once the world stops relying so heavily on oil, and in the meantime completely destroying the province's ecosystem.

    Yes, I'm jaded. Alberta is also a shitty province that has contributed nothing but shitty politicians and shitty right-wing policy along with dumbass rednecks to our country as a whole. I'm sorry for the 25-35% of the population that aren't either stupid or greedy, but I'd be quite happy to see the entire place disappear off the face of the map.

    Oh, and for a while there a pretty good hockey team.

    psyck0 on
    Play Smash Bros 3DS with me! 4399-1034-5444
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  • Nova_CNova_C Social Justice Haruspex Beyond The WallRegistered User regular
    Yeah, Alberta should be more like Ontario, what with the massive industrial waste and pollution.

    My blog: www.jonathanirons.net
    My Twitter: IronBorealis
    Be advised, I'm not the best at keeping either updated. >.>
  • EtiowsaEtiowsa TorontoRegistered User regular
    Al_wat wrote: »
    With regards to Ontario politics does it appear to anyone that Flaherty is shilling hardcore for the provincial conservatives?

    Maybe they're banking on the NDP not supporting the new budget and another election happening. Which seems rather unlikely IMO. Oh, and Alberta (and the rest of western Canada, for that matter) gets hate for basically guaranteeing a conservative minority for the foreseeable future.

  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    Comahawk wrote: »
    Katimavik and their 14 million gets cut? Yea, definitely not cut because it's a Liberal legacy program. No-sir-ee. Better make sure the Cadets get their 200 million though.

    In the decisions defence: I have never heard of Katimavik before you mentioned it here, and Cadets are a heavily rooted organization in Canadian society that has helped a lot of kids.


    Damn, as a former "Katimavictim" :P I am sad to see it go. Unfortunately it's not surprising, why would the Conservatives want to spend money on a Liberal Sponsered socialist plot which has young adults/teens volunteer at a variety of non-profit organizations, learn French/English, meet new people from different cultures, and other hippy-like things? Better to fund groups for prospective military recruits!


    Not that the Cadets are bad or anything, they just have different objectives.

  • MackenzierMackenzier Gold Star Police Ninja LurkingRegistered User regular
    Etiowsa wrote: »
    Al_wat wrote: »
    With regards to Ontario politics does it appear to anyone that Flaherty is shilling hardcore for the provincial conservatives?

    Maybe they're banking on the NDP not supporting the new budget and another election happening. Which seems rather unlikely IMO. Oh, and Alberta (and the rest of western Canada, for that matter) gets hate for basically guaranteeing a conservative minority for the foreseeable future.

    I really can't see Horwath not supporting the budget in the end, even if she doesn't wring out all the concessions the NDP might want. All that could change if she brought down the McGuinty Liberals is Hudak possibly taking charge and she must realize that would put the NDP into an even worse position in Ontario than now.

    steam_sig.png
  • ComahawkComahawk Registered User regular
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Those dumbfucks have been running Alberta for 40 years and contributed nothing but "fuck you, I got mine and I ain't sharing" to our national discourse. They're leaving Alberta with the prospect of absolutely no economy whatsoever once the world stops relying so heavily on oil, and in the meantime completely destroying the province's ecosystem.

    Yes, I'm jaded. Alberta is also a shitty province that has contributed nothing but shitty politicians and shitty right-wing policy along with dumbass rednecks to our country as a whole. I'm sorry for the 25-35% of the population that aren't either stupid or greedy, but I'd be quite happy to see the entire place disappear off the face of the map.

    Oh, and for a while there a pretty good hockey team.

    Dear God, it's like I've done a time warp to the 80s and 90s where people actually believe the shit above. You realize you are implying Alberta is full of moronic, generalist bigots while being one yourself?

    Have you ever lived in the province for a long period of time? Hell, have you even so much as driven through it?

    You should actually educate yourself on Alberta and its history (going back to the 1800s). A lot of the modern discourse regarding relations with the East were founded on a generally shitty relationship. Especially of interest here is the 60s-80s, which provide a large backdrop for our current issues with Ottawa.

    Also, go fuck yourself. Writing off upwards of 75% of the province as stupid or greedy is generally just an inflammatory comment that shows your lack of intelligence. Maybe instead of approaching the topic as a belligerent asshole, try actually reading up on the topics at hand and understanding the history between Alberta and the rest of the country. Assuming that them not wanting to share with the rest of the country makes them greedy shows a complete lack of understanding for that historical discourse.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Etiowsa wrote:
    Oh, and Alberta (and the rest of western Canada, for that matter) gets hate for basically guaranteeing a conservative minority for the foreseeable future.

    Alberta (and Western Canada in general) does not have enough seats in Parliament to guarantee anything. Jean Chrétien won three successive Liberal majorities with very little support from the west.

    Even in 2011, projections that included students/young adults turning out and voting showed a Liberal minority with an NDP opposition, while projections that had the elderly voting and low turnout of younger voters showed a Conservative majority. And, well, seeing how the election turned out, you see which scenario was right, and who's to blame for our recent Conservative governments.

    Richy on
    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    In other news, everything about the F-35 purchase was a lie.
    National defence officials lowballed the costs of the controversial F-35 fighter jet and kept Canadians in the dark about the risks of Canada’s participation in a project beset by delays and cost overruns, a federal watchdog has found.

    As well, federal officials oversold the potential benefits of the jet purchase to Canadian companies which has been a sales pitch used by Conservative MPs to justify their choice of the stealthy jet.

    [...]

    It also finds that even though defence officials were getting regular updates about the delays and cost overruns with the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program, none of those concerns appear in briefing materials from 2006 to 2010 to warn “senior decision makers” about the potential problems.

    [...]

    In a key finding, the auditors said that estimates of the value of spin-off contracts for Canadian producers from the aircraft purchase were inflated by government officials before being presented to ministers and parliamentarians.

    “In the majority of cases, only the most optimistic scenario (of spin-off benefits) was put forward, rather than a range of potential benefits that reflected the inherent uncertainties in the projections,” auditors found.

    [...]

    As a result, by 2010, Canada was too involved in the F-35 program to launch a competitive process for a replacement jet.

    “Practically speaking, by 2010, Canada was too involved in the JSF program and the F-35 to run a fair competition,” the auditor found.

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Comahawk wrote: »
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Those dumbfucks have been running Alberta for 40 years and contributed nothing but "fuck you, I got mine and I ain't sharing" to our national discourse. They're leaving Alberta with the prospect of absolutely no economy whatsoever once the world stops relying so heavily on oil, and in the meantime completely destroying the province's ecosystem.

    Yes, I'm jaded. Alberta is also a shitty province that has contributed nothing but shitty politicians and shitty right-wing policy along with dumbass rednecks to our country as a whole. I'm sorry for the 25-35% of the population that aren't either stupid or greedy, but I'd be quite happy to see the entire place disappear off the face of the map.

    Oh, and for a while there a pretty good hockey team.

    Dear God, it's like I've done a time warp to the 80s and 90s where people actually believe the shit above. You realize you are implying Alberta is full of moronic, generalist bigots while being one yourself?

    Have you ever lived in the province for a long period of time? Hell, have you even so much as driven through it?

    You should actually educate yourself on Alberta and its history (going back to the 1800s). A lot of the modern discourse regarding relations with the East were founded on a generally shitty relationship. Especially of interest here is the 60s-80s, which provide a large backdrop for our current issues with Ottawa.

    Also, go fuck yourself. Writing off upwards of 75% of the province as stupid or greedy is generally just an inflammatory comment that shows your lack of intelligence. Maybe instead of approaching the topic as a belligerent asshole, try actually reading up on the topics at hand and understanding the history between Alberta and the rest of the country. Assuming that them not wanting to share with the rest of the country makes them greedy shows a complete lack of understanding for that historical discourse.

    I am entirely happy to write off every single Conservative voter as stupid or greedy, and that's somewhere between 65 and 75% of the province (or at least of the people that vote). I don't give a flying fuck about what Alberta did in the 1800s, I care about what they have done in their 40 straight years of Conservative dominance provincially and federally, which is enact a ton of shitty right-wing legislation in their own province, vote for shitty right-wing parties federally, and bitch about having to share any of their money with any of the other provinces in the country or with the federal government.

    psyck0 on
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  • Nova_CNova_C Social Justice Haruspex Beyond The WallRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    psyck0 wrote: »
    I am entirely happy to write off every single Conservative voter as stupid or greedy, and that's somewhere between 65 and 75% of the province (or at least of the people that vote). I don't give a flying fuck about what Alberta did in the 1800s, I care about what they have done in their 40 straight years of Conservative dominance provincially and federally, which is enact a ton of shitty right-wing legislation in their own province, vote for shitty right-wing parties federally, and bitch about having to share any of their money with any of the other provinces in the country or with the federal government.

    So you don't see any correlation between political marginalization, decades of contributing the most to equalization and the current state of affairs?

    Also, what the fuck do you propose? March the military in and execute conservatives because you're a fucking idiot? You're exactly why politics in Canada are as fucked up as they are - regional mistrust and suspicion. How about you stop acting like an ignorant cunt and realize that real people live in Alberta, motivated by exactly the same fucking things as people any where else in Canada?

    Psycho, YOU are to blame for the Conservatives being in power, you and the jerk offs like you who thrive on the massive prejudice between the provinces.

    Nova_C on
    My blog: www.jonathanirons.net
    My Twitter: IronBorealis
    Be advised, I'm not the best at keeping either updated. >.>
  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Yeah, me and all the people who campaigned and voted against the conservatives are to blame for them being in power, instead of people who are considering electing an openly racist party (wildrose). That sure makes a lot of sense.

    I am fully aware that Alberta disappearing off the face of the map is a pipe dream, but I can fantasize, and I'll cheer if Wildrose makes it happen (or if it finally wakes people up to the sheer idiocy of their policies)

    psyck0 on
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  • hawkboxhawkbox Registered User regular
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Yeah, me and all the people who campaigned and voted against the conservatives are to blame for them being in power, instead of people who are considering electing an openly racist party (wildrose). That sure makes a lot of sense.

    I am fully aware that Alberta disappearing off the face of the map is a pipe dream, but I can fantasize, and I'll cheer if Wildrose makes it happen (or if it finally wakes people up to the sheer idiocy of their policies)

    Stay classy, you silly goose.

    Virtue flourishes in the most unexpected places.
  • Nova_CNova_C Social Justice Haruspex Beyond The WallRegistered User regular
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Yeah, me and all the people who campaigned and voted against the conservatives are to blame for them being in power, instead of people who are considering electing an openly racist party (wildrose). That sure makes a lot of sense.

    Are you really that stupid?

    People like you are the reason the political state of Canada is as messed up as it is now. Alberta has felt marginalized for years, beginning with the NEP and continuing through 12 years of Chretien even though Alberta was nearly unanimous in support for the Tories. So Albertans felt like their votes didn't matter and that Eastern Canadians were the sole arbiters of who gets to rule in Canada. So Albertans became more mistrustful, not less, as the NEP faded into history.

    And then out of the controversy of the NEP with Trudeau flipping Albertans off as a whole and Klein saying "Let the Eastern bastards freeze in the dark" came a massive gulf that still separates the east from the west today, a gulf that you seem to gleefully enjoying.

    Psycho, this whole thing is based on hate. A hate you seem to be thriving on. Albertans certainly aren't the only assholes, and there's a lot of Albertans that want to see a change, but if your solution is to classify them all as terrible, well, I guess you don't want things to change, you want people to keep hating each other, you want the regional mistrust to continue, you want Albertans to continue feeling marginalized and insular and you want the Conservatives to continue to enjoy manipulating people like you in continuing their dominance of federal politics in the west.
    Spoiler:

    My blog: www.jonathanirons.net
    My Twitter: IronBorealis
    Be advised, I'm not the best at keeping either updated. >.>
  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    So you don't see any correlation between political marginalization, decades of contributing the most to equalization and the current state of affairs?

    Well, I do see something of a positive feedback loop with political marginalization (Liberals don't care about Alberta -> Albertans vote conservative -> Liberals give up trying to win Alberta). Equalization, though? Are you seriously complaining about a province rolling in money getting to keep slightly less of it? Should we scrap progressive taxation and GST rebates while we're at it?

  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    Don't lecture me about the federal parties not giving a shit about the west. I'm from BC- we know all about that. It doesn't change the fact that these people are too stupid to see how destructive the conservative puppets they are voting in are for their province and for the country. We have the same kind of morons in our interior, and I would quite happily give that up as well (fucking Stockwell Day is from BC, for chrissake).

    Play Smash Bros 3DS with me! 4399-1034-5444
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  • Nova_CNova_C Social Justice Haruspex Beyond The WallRegistered User regular
    Tenek wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    So you don't see any correlation between political marginalization, decades of contributing the most to equalization and the current state of affairs?

    Well, I do see something of a positive feedback loop with political marginalization (Liberals don't care about Alberta -> Albertans vote conservative -> Liberals give up trying to win Alberta). Equalization, though? Are you seriously complaining about a province rolling in money getting to keep slightly less of it? Should we scrap progressive taxation and GST rebates while we're at it?

    What? I said, does Psycho not see the correlation? Tenek, you tell me if I'm complaining or stating the fucking obvious about the perception many Albertans have.

    Jesus Fucking Christ. It's like you guys WANT Albertans to tell you to fuck the hell off.
    Spoiler:

    My blog: www.jonathanirons.net
    My Twitter: IronBorealis
    Be advised, I'm not the best at keeping either updated. >.>
  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Tenek wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    So you don't see any correlation between political marginalization, decades of contributing the most to equalization and the current state of affairs?

    Well, I do see something of a positive feedback loop with political marginalization (Liberals don't care about Alberta -> Albertans vote conservative -> Liberals give up trying to win Alberta). Equalization, though? Are you seriously complaining about a province rolling in money getting to keep slightly less of it? Should we scrap progressive taxation and GST rebates while we're at it?

    What? I said, does Psycho not see the correlation? Tenek, you tell me if I'm complaining or stating the fucking obvious about the perception many Albertans have.

    Jesus Fucking Christ. It's like you guys WANT Albertans to tell you to fuck the hell off.
    Spoiler:

    o.O

    OK, I acknowledge that you are talking about other people's positions. This is a very odd turn for a Canadian thread to take, though. Can't we all complain about American "beer" or something?

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Nova_C wrote: »
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Yeah, me and all the people who campaigned and voted against the conservatives are to blame for them being in power, instead of people who are considering electing an openly racist party (wildrose). That sure makes a lot of sense.

    Are you really that stupid?

    People like you are the reason the political state of Canada is as messed up as it is now. Alberta has felt marginalized for years, beginning with the NEP and continuing through 12 years of Chretien even though Alberta was nearly unanimous in support for the Tories. So Albertans felt like their votes didn't matter and that Eastern Canadians were the sole arbiters of who gets to rule in Canada. So Albertans became more mistrustful, not less, as the NEP faded into history.

    And then out of the controversy of the NEP with Trudeau flipping Albertans off as a whole and Klein saying "Let the Eastern bastards freeze in the dark" came a massive gulf that still separates the east from the west today, a gulf that you seem to gleefully enjoying.

    Psycho, this whole thing is based on hate. A hate you seem to be thriving on. Albertans certainly aren't the only assholes, and there's a lot of Albertans that want to see a change, but if your solution is to classify them all as terrible, well, I guess you don't want things to change, you want people to keep hating each other, you want the regional mistrust to continue, you want Albertans to continue feeling marginalized and insular and you want the Conservatives to continue to enjoy manipulating people like you in continuing their dominance of federal politics in the west.
    Spoiler:

    I love how it's someone else's fault Alberta keeps voting conservative. Over and over again. For decades. Since, very likely, before psyck0 was even born. The NEP happened over 30 years ago.

    Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, Alberta's voting patterns aren't a reaction to people like psyck0's rhetoric, but rather that people like psyck0's rhetoric is a reaction to Alberta's voting patterns?


    And individually, there are plenty of Albertans against all this shit we complain about. But as a group? Voting will tell.

    shryke on
  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    Considering these are real canadian political opinions, I think this is a good turn for the thread to take. Much more interesting than the regular stereotypical fluff bullshit. Political debates can get heated, its just their nature

  • hippofanthippofant Helping Mario save Peach. Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I love how it's someone else's fault Alberta keeps voting conservative. Over and over again. For decades. Since, very likely, before psyck0 was even born. The NEP happened over 30 years ago.

    Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, Alberta's voting patterns aren't a reaction to people like psyck0's rhetoric, but rather that people like psyck0's rhetoric is a reaction to Alberta's voting patterns?


    And individually, there are plenty of Albertans against all this shit we complain about. But as a group? Voting will tell.

    Isn't a fundamental principle of functional democracy that people have to take responsibility for their voting? If people consign blame for their voting patterns to others, there's no voting efficacy on their parts, and thus they will never "learn" with their votes, denying any need for their politicians to be accountable.

    Also, Albertans could have just gone and voted NDP instead. It's a false dichotomy to say, well obviously they HAVE to vote Conservative given what the Liberals did with the NEP. Also, 30 years ago; double also, posits Albertan voters as machines without self-determination.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    hippofant wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I love how it's someone else's fault Alberta keeps voting conservative. Over and over again. For decades. Since, very likely, before psyck0 was even born. The NEP happened over 30 years ago.

    Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, Alberta's voting patterns aren't a reaction to people like psyck0's rhetoric, but rather that people like psyck0's rhetoric is a reaction to Alberta's voting patterns?


    And individually, there are plenty of Albertans against all this shit we complain about. But as a group? Voting will tell.

    Isn't a fundamental principle of functional democracy that people have to take responsibility for their voting? If people consign blame for their voting patterns to others, there's no voting efficacy on their parts, and thus they will never "learn" with their votes, denying any need for their politicians to be accountable.

    Also, Albertans could have just gone and voted NDP instead. It's a false dichotomy to say, well obviously they HAVE to vote Conservative given what the Liberals did with the NEP. Also, 30 years ago; double also, posits Albertan voters as machines without self-determination.

    Exactly.

    Which is why I'm hoping Wildrose wins. Give the people the government they want, maybe it'll make them realise what it is they've been asking for.

    At the very least, it would show Albertans are aware other parties are actually on the ballot.

    shryke on
  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    Let's see ... F-35 continues to be a complete sham, making its way to the #2 spot of top Canadian Conservative shams of all time.

    And while just stating the obvious silly goose stances of many Albertan voters use to justify their Conservative (provincial) stranglehold ... he just thinks we shouldn't call them on their bullshit because they will get defensive and double down on silly goosery in response. I would disagree, they really are approaching the point where we should write them off because of how little they have in common with what I would think are rightly considered Canadian values.

    Conservatives said they had Canada's best interests at heart for years while being the federal official opposition and as a number of different provincial governments. Proof was in the pudding and I stopped voting for them, right now Greens have more legitimacy as the avatars of Conservative virtues in their policies than the Cons do. Heck, after Mike Harcourt, I thought I would never vote NDP provincially or federally but against the backdrop and current BS the Cons spin, the NDP of the late Jack look more true to Canadian conservative values than them.

    And yet 39% of us who bothered to vote, voted for them, Alberta being rightly considered the Conservate stronghold not the least of them. Yeah, be prepared for pretty much everyone to blame Alberta but you want to know who I blame? Ontario. After all the woes Cons have put you through, I really thought the voters there would know better. And Ontario is the real king maker under our current system of voting and seats.

    Cons disgrace the memory (mine at least, which may not be saying much) of Reform IMHO. NDP and Greens are the ones calling for Reform now.

    steam_sig.png
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Let's see ... F-35 continues to be a complete sham, making its way to the #2 spot of top Canadian Conservative shams of all time.

    And while just stating the obvious silly goose stances of many Albertan voters use to justify their Conservative (provincial) stranglehold ... he just thinks we shouldn't call them on their bullshit because they will get defensive and double down on silly goosery in response. I would disagree, they really are approaching the point where we should write them off because of how little they have in common with what I would think are rightly considered Canadian values.

    Conservatives said they had Canada's best interests at heart for years while being the federal official opposition and as a number of different provincial governments. Proof was in the pudding and I stopped voting for them, right now Greens have more legitimacy as the avatars of Conservative virtues in their policies than the Cons do. Heck, after Mike Harcourt, I thought I would never vote NDP provincially or federally but against the backdrop and current BS the Cons spin, the NDP of the late Jack look more true to Canadian conservative values than them.

    And yet 39% of us who bothered to vote, voted for them, Alberta being rightly considered the Conservate stronghold not the least of them. Yeah, be prepared for pretty much everyone to blame Alberta but you want to know who I blame? Ontario. After all the woes Cons have put you through, I really thought the voters there would know better. And Ontario is the real king maker under our current system of voting and seats.

    Cons disgrace the memory (mine at least, which may not be saying much) of Reform IMHO. NDP and Greens are the ones calling for Reform now.

    I still can't figure this one out.

  • Nova_CNova_C Social Justice Haruspex Beyond The WallRegistered User regular
    Yeah, I've been saying that for a while now - Conservatives got in, things are worse, now what?

    It's a tough sell to tell people to vote NDP in Alberta considering Alberta is predominantly right of center. And I'm not trying to shift blame away from people who voted Conservative, but the problem is that they see supporters of the Liberals and NDP saying what Psycho is saying and close their ears to the reality. This country NEEDS to stop with the regionalism. That is an integral step to more voter unity. I get really angry when either side calls for the eradication of people who don't conform to their views, and yeah, I blame those people for the current state of Canadian politics.

    My blog: www.jonathanirons.net
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Yeah, I've been saying that for a while now - Conservatives got in, things are worse, now what?

    It's a tough sell to tell people to vote NDP in Alberta considering Alberta is predominantly right of center. And I'm not trying to shift blame away from people who voted Conservative, but the problem is that they see supporters of the Liberals and NDP saying what Psycho is saying and close their ears to the reality. This country NEEDS to stop with the regionalism. That is an integral step to more voter unity. I get really angry when either side calls for the eradication of people who don't conform to their views, and yeah, I blame those people for the current state of Canadian politics.

    Really? I'd blame Conservatives and the people who vote for them for that.

This discussion has been closed.