[Canada] Politics of the Democratic Friedmanite Republic of the Government of Harper

hippofant

Etiowsa wrote: »

Holy shit, Dalton caved. cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/04/23/ontario-budget-time-running-out-for-deal-liberals-ndp.html

I'm honestly really surprised. I don't think Horwath would've let the government fall, but shit, I'm not gonna complain.

I don't think "real honest hard-working Canadians" will realise this, but man, did Hudak fuck up bad....

Etiowsa

hippofant wrote: »

Etiowsa wrote: »

Holy shit, Dalton caved. cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/04/23/ontario-budget-time-running-out-for-deal-liberals-ndp.html

I'm honestly really surprised. I don't think Horwath would've let the government fall, but shit, I'm not gonna complain.

I don't think "real honest hard-working Canadians" will realise this, but man, did Hudak fuck up bad....

Seriously. That might actually have influenced Mcguinty somewhat. Placate the NDP and shit on Hudak at the same time. Silly Timmy. Hope the whiny pouty routine was worth it...

Morgenstern

Voted in Lethbridge West today.

NDP candidate ran an incredibly strong campaign here so fingers crossed.

Comahawk

Morgenstern wrote: »

Voted in Lethbridge West today.

NDP candidate ran an incredibly strong campaign here so fingers crossed.

I would have liked to vote for a non-conservative party, but my area seems to come down to a PC vs. Wild Rose race, with little said by the other parties. I really don't want Wild Rose to win.

hippofant

Clerical errors not grounds to invalidate election: Elections watchdog:

Procedural irregularities shouldn’t be sufficient grounds to overturn the results of an election, Canada’s elections watchdog is arguing in a potentially precedent-setting court hearing.

Chief electoral officer Marc Mayrand makes the argument in a factum filed in response to a defeated Liberal MP’s attempt to invalidate the results of last May’s election in his Toronto riding.

Borys Wrzesnewskyj maintains at least 181 voters were improperly allowed to cast ballots in Etobicoke Centre, in some cases possibly more than once. Wrzesnewskyj lost by just 26 votes to Conservative Ted Opitz.

His case, to be heard Monday, marks the first time a court has been required to rule on a contested election using Part 20 of the Canada Elections Act, which was added by Parliament in 2000. It stipulates that an elector or candidate may seek to invalidate an election in a riding if “there were irregularities, fraud, corrupt or illegal practices that affected the results of the election.”

Mayrand argues that Parliament intended the provision to be applied sparingly.

“It is important that elections not be overturned lightly,” he says in the factum.

He says Parliament recognized that “administrative and clerical errors in elections will be common and, indeed, inevitable and it is essential that only those consequential to the result be used to overturn an election.”

hawkbox

How is that doing something lightly? That election guy seems shifty as hell.

NODe

That's super shady. Are they setting precedents for any further "not really just about robo-calls but let's just call it the Robo-call Scandal because people don't want to listen to descriptions of things if there's a handy buzz word" developments?

Morgenstern

Well, polls are closed now.

hawkbox

And we can but wait.

psyck0

hippofant wrote: »

saggio wrote: »

Moreover, the way most of you thread posters write about BC politics convinces me that you are generally living somewhere to the east of the Rockies.

I have not once actually mentioned BC, a BC politician, BC voters, or a BC political party in the past page or so. We're arguing with psyk0 about HSTs, which have also been implemented here in Ontario, where, quite frankly, nobody really seems to give a shit any more. I am personally not pro-HST, and I think Caedwyr brings up a good point re. the overall tax burden, but I'm mostly responding to psyk0's shitty points. I'm not sure anybody's even talking about BC in particular any more. The last oblique reference to BC was CorporateGoon, some 30 posts ago:

Voting out a lying government at the next election is fine. Getting rid of the HST was just the BC electorate cutting off its nose to spite its face. Prices on goods fell in Atlantic Canada when the HST was introduced there, and there's no reason to think it wouldn't have happened eventually in BC.

And again, more about HST than BC really.

You could at least spell my name right while you casually dismiss everything I said as the point flies by you at mach 3/

hawkbox

And you're still being a loud mouthed asshole to everyone. Stay classy.

oldmanken

God, I hope Wilde Rose don't pull this out...

TubularLuggage

The Alberta Party were on the board for about half a minute. Then a second polling station in that riding reported.

Morgenstern

NDP winning in Leth West apparently. Oh my fuck.

The Ender

oldmanken wrote: »

God, I hope Wilde Rose don't pull this out...

Wild Rose is a looney toons joke. Yes, the media pretended it would be 'close'. No serious person thought it would be close.

53 to 21 right now. ololololol so close.


I imagine they'll disintegrate and be a non-entity after this 'tight' election.

TubularLuggage

The Ender wrote: »

oldmanken wrote: »

God, I hope Wilde Rose don't pull this out...

Wild Rose is a looney toons joke. Yes, the media pretended it would be 'close'. No serious person thought it would be close.

53 to 21 right now. ololololol so close.


I imagine they'll disintegrate and be a non-entity after this 'tight' election.

Never underestimate crazy. People underestimated Harper right into the PMO.

KetBra

Welp, looking like another PC majority.

The Ender

Just a total curb-stomping. 60 to 19.

Keep fuckin' that chicken.

CorporateGoon

The Ender wrote: »

Just a total curb-stomping. 60 to 19.

Keep fuckin' that chicken.

Hey, hey, hey... In polite company we refer to it as chicken 'loving'.

Morgenstern

I'm not going to celebrate another PC majority, but it's better than the WildLOL Party.

Overlord

Did Leth end up getting NDP on the West side? I heard someone say CBC mentioned we did but it mightve been counted wrong?

The Ender

Morgenstern wrote: »

I'm not going to celebrate another PC majority, but it's better than the WildLOL Party.

In some ways, WildRose would've been a better long-term choice. They'd have been such a catastrophic failure that the next generation of voters would almost certainly jettison this 'got mine, fuckers!' attitude.

The bad part, of course, would be the damage done over the next 20~ years until the next generation is eligible to vote.


It is sort-of interesting to see some urban centers that were given NDP / Liberal representation because WildRose split the vote. Man, that'll piss a lot of fundies off.

TubularLuggage

Congratulations Alberta on not crapping the bed.

Morgenstern

Overlord wrote: »

Did Leth end up getting NDP on the West side? I heard someone say CBC mentioned we did but it mightve been counted wrong?

Nah, it was close for a bit, but Weadick (LOL) is ahead now by 500 or so votes.

Overlord

Lame

Morgenstern

Hey, it's a start on the provincial level and a reaffirmation of the strong left lean on this side of town. I'll take it.

hawkbox

Just think of how many NDP and liberal seats we might have scored if people hadn't OMG PANICKED@!! and "strategically" voted. Hopefully the PC party gets that they got a lot of fear vote that probably won't be there the next time around. Plus I think Redford is a lot less pants on head retarded than most PC people have been.

Entriech

I couldn't realistically be happier with the results of the election out of Alberta. A progressive conservative party that's being further and further pushed towards the center by Wildrose is fine in my book.

I mean sure, NDP or Libs would be nice too, but I did say realistically.

Morgenstern

That is sort of the political reality manifesting itself in this province now. The Tories are moving themselves to the middle to pick up the votes from the Wildrose threat felt by the left. As long as there's more of those votes than the right-leaning votes the WR are panderinf for, they'll be fine.

Richy

Meanwhile, my riding in making news. Bruce Hyer (whom I voter for) was one of two NDP MPs who voted for abolishing the gun registry, and were disciplined by the party for it. He has now left the NDP entirely, saying that while he agrees with the party 95% of the time he feels muzzled the other 5%.

Personally, I think he's gone too far. His stance that started this debate, the gun registry destruction vote, was meaningless - the Conservative majority was sure to pass it regardless of what the NDP voter for. Both his decision to break the party line on this vote and the party's decision to reprimand him for it were pointless drama.

I appreciate that he wanted to take a stance for something he believes his constituants are opposed to. But being part of a Federal party is also about considering the good of the nation. If you and your constitutants believe in X, then by all means argue and fight for X. But when most of the nation's representatives decide that Y is actually the best option overall, then you have to compromise. You can't just ignore the nation and go with X because it's what you want and ignore the rest of the country. And on top of it, he accuses Muclair of being inflexible when he himself can't even compromise on a meaningless symbolic vote! Hyer needs to take a good look in a mirror.

Aegis

Yea I voted for Hyer too and am a bit miffed he left the party over this. When Commuzzi was booted from the Liberal party, at least he did it over a budget vote that would have provided support to the region up here. The gun registry, by contrast, I don't think is that important to up and leave the party.

Entriech

Hyer looks terrible right now. HIs timing and manner of doing this was just the worst. So he doesn't get a shadow cabinet post, then immediately leaves the party (but not for that reason, honest!), and does it without speaking to Muclair first.

It looks like an emotional reaction, and he came off as a real idiot when I saw him on the news last night. Completely avoided answering the question about why he didn't phone Muclair before announcing his leaving. I think his response was something along the lines of 'woulda, coulda, shoulda'. Fuckin' right, it looks unprofessional as hell to leave that way.

Choosing to make his stand on the gun registry is also kind of a hilarious decision.

Aegis

That was the other thing, I read the article about how this co-incided with not getting in the shadow cabinet and thought "well this looks like horrible optics".

Richy

I agree. It makes him look completely childish.

And not only does Muclair's reason for not giving him a shadow cabinet position sounds rational, but Hyer's reaction/timing makes it look even better.

hawkbox

For the first time in my life I've voted for a winner! It feels so weird to vote for a non conservative candidate and actually have them get elected. The power!!!!111

On a serious note I'm hoping that this moderates the PC's and inclines them to work more with the left as they have to realize that a decent portion of their vote came from there as the wildrose freaked people out.

Comahawk

hawkbox wrote: »

For the first time in my life I've voted for a winner! It feels so weird to vote for a non conservative candidate and actually have them get elected. The power!!!!111

On a serious note I'm hoping that this moderates the PC's and inclines them to work more with the left as they have to realize that a decent portion of their vote came from there as the wildrose freaked people out.

I believe Redford said something along these lines in her speech.

I am just happy that Wildrose didn't really succeed.

hawkbox

Indeed.

hippofant

A timely article relevant to the earlier "HST not leading to price declines" conversation:

Shopping for fairness: Why Canadians pay more for everything:

Retailers in Canada report that they are charged anywhere between 10-50 per cent more for identical products by the same suppliers, according to the [Retailers Council of Canada] report.

The report gave examples of items sold by suppliers at different price points in Canada and the U.S.

Ibuprophen 200 mg, sells to U.S. retailers for $10.76 and to Canadian retailers for $18.29, a difference of 70 per cent. A bottle of Aspirin 81 mg low dose sells to U.S. retailers for $10.16, and to Canadian retailers for $21.78, a difference of 114 per cent.

Canadian retailers say their suppliers tell them they charge more because Canadians are used to paying more for products in Canada; that the higher prices subsidize the costs of maintaining offices and operations in Canada, and that the higher prices are necessary to compensate their Canadian distributors and wholesalers.

Brisebois (president of the RCC) said that while it is not the case for all suppliers and all products, the different prices charged by suppliers it is the largest contributing factor to the difference in prices between Canada and the United States in situations where it occurs.

The RCC also blamed outdated tariffs on finished goods like some clothes, pantyhose, wooden bedroom furniture, bed linens, towels and pillows.

Though the source may be biased.

blkmage

What I found amazing about Hyer's statement is that it doesn't read like he left because of the gun registry vote, but because he didn't get a shadow cabinet position and, therefore, his constituents are being muzzled.

http://brucehyer.ca/?Media_Room:Press_Releases:Bruce_Hyer_to_sit_as_an_Independent

OTTAWA – Bruce Hyer is dropping his caucus affiliation with the New Democratic Party to sit as an Independent in Parliament.

“I was honoured when the voters of Thunder Bay-Superior North chose me to be their voice in the House of Commons. I committed to them to be honest, open, and accessible, and to keep my campaign promises.” said Hyer in Parliament. “I have much respect for most Members in this House. But our three main parties require lockstep discipline, with little room for meaningful public debate... or for putting constituents ahead of party politics.”

“Instead of cooperation and compromise, voters often see mindless solidarity, where political parties are always right and voters are always wrong. One example is the long gun registry, where there has been no real compromise at all. Mr. Mulcair has made it clear he will bring back the long gun registry, and will use the whip. I am also concerned that Mr. Mulcair does not seem willing to co-operate with other parties on important issues. And on climate change, parties are hopelessly locked to Cap & Trade or outright inaction, making compromise to achieve even piecemeal progress impossible.”

First elected in 2008, Hyer was left out the NDP shadow cabinet announcement last week. “One of the jobs of any new Leader is to unite their party, and there are different ways to do that. Being excluded from any position was a clear message that my constituents will be muzzled.”

“As an Independent voice, I will better be able to represent my constituents in Parliament. I will focus on doing what I have worked hard to do for over three years: Help the people being mistreated by federal agencies like CRA or EI. Work with all parties or MPs when possible to make Parliament work. And speak up inside and outside the House for issues important for Northwestern Ontario, and Canada.” Hyer concluded.

Entriech

The difference in pricing north and south of the border gets pretty criminal at times.

I mean, there's a reason why people were border hopping to shop even when the dollar was at a poor value. You were still getting a deal.