It's been awhile since I read book 1, but doesn't Varys tell Ned when he visits him in the dungeon that he's worked out a deal and Ned will be able to serve at the wall for the rest of his life?
It's going to be so great reading people on spoiler-free forums going "Awesome! Ned's going to go live on the wall with Jon Snow! And they'll talk about his mom like he promised! I can't wait!"
And then see their reactions the next week.
book 2
Ned probably would have died when Yoren did
I would think that he would have pushed yoren to take a boat, because of his leg, and because it would be safer given his status as an exile for treason. In fact I'm pretty sure that's what would have happened.
why would Illyrio be on someones needs to die list? He hasn't really done much
He just seems like a complete shitbag.
Sold Dany to Khal Drogo, lied to Viserys about getting his crown, plotted to kill Ned with Varys, and just generally displays a general disregard for others.
Unless, of course, they have something to offer him.
Just a thought about Episode 7 and the rest of Book 1:
How would you guys handled that whole business as Ned? I mean, I keep trying to imagine an out for the Starks and I can't quite find the right escape route? I guess I would have taken Renly's offer and held the Lannisters as collateral and I would have arrested Lancel (at the very least).
Overall I just marvel at how utterly terrible Ned is at his job-- Or any other "good guy" in the book, really (excluding Jon and the other children).
Just a thought about Episode 7 and the rest of Book 1:
How would you guys handled that whole business as Ned? I mean, I keep trying to imagine an out for the Starks and I can't quite find the right escape route? I guess I would have taken Renly's offer and held the Lannisters as collateral and I would have arrested Lancel (at the very least).
Overall I just marvel at how utterly terrible Ned is at his job-- Or any other "good guy" in the book, really (excluding Jon and the other children).
I would have kept my ass at home with my kids and their kickass dire wolves. It would have made for a pretty boring book.
I've had the thought before that I could be good at politics but I think I would get tired of it after a week and it wouldn't be fun anymore. And with this kind of politics there isn't really any "retiring"...
Just a thought about Episode 7 and the rest of Book 1:
How would you guys handled that whole business as Ned? I mean, I keep trying to imagine an out for the Starks and I can't quite find the right escape route? I guess I would have taken Renly's offer and held the Lannisters as collateral and I would have arrested Lancel (at the very least).
Overall I just marvel at how utterly terrible Ned is at his job-- Or any other "good guy" in the book, really (excluding Jon and the other children).
LET THE SPECULATIVE FAN FICTION BEGIN
The only competent "good guys" I can think of are the ones who do good things in kind of shitty ways, for usually shitty reasons. Like Tyrion.
Ned was just far too trusting, lenient, and for whatever reason, didn't expect anyone to actually kill over what he knew, despite Ned himself knowing that they've done it before. It's pretty apparent Ned didn't have a mind for politics, considering that once he found out the truth, he did what any true politician would avoid like the plague; confronting the problem head-on
Just a thought about Episode 7 and the rest of Book 1:
How would you guys handled that whole business as Ned? I mean, I keep trying to imagine an out for the Starks and I can't quite find the right escape route? I guess I would have taken Renly's offer and held the Lannisters as collateral and I would have arrested Lancel (at the very least).
Overall I just marvel at how utterly terrible Ned is at his job-- Or any other "good guy" in the book, really (excluding Jon and the other children).
Yeah, it was really stupid of Ned not to act when Renly offered.
Cersei commits about a dozen different crimes, then shamelessly takes responsibility for them right in his face, and his response is to give her a chance to escape?
Especially when his daughters are within her reach, just waiting to be kidnapped?
Stupid.
Stupid, stupid, dumb.
Though I can see why he would hesitate; he can barely get Robert to withdraw from a tournament. Trying to convince him not to execute Cersei, Jamie, Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen would've been damn near impossible.
Though I still think Ned is awesome, even though he's got that honor stick shoved right up his ass.
I would have seriously considered putting Varys and Littlefinger in stir for 24 hours while I clean house. Or just lie as much as humanly possible to them, because, hey, I'm honest ol' Ned Stark.
I would have seriously considered putting Varys and Littlefinger in stir for 24 hours while I clean house. Or just lie as much as humanly possible to them, because, hey, I'm honest ol' Ned Stark.
"Oh, hey, we lost all your financial records in the revolution, bro. Sorry."
Also, re: Tywinn, the show, and the books I may or may not remember him being in:
He's the coolest fucking guy. He's the worst in the books, but on the show? He's a straight up G. "Oh, you gonna be a smartass whelp? I'm gonna skin this fucking stag. I make King Robert look like Renly. I ain't give no fucks."
"Oh, hey, we lost all your financial records in the revolution, bro. Sorry."
Also, re: Tywinn, the show, and the books I may or may not remember him being in:
He's the coolest fucking guy. He's the worst in the books, but on the show? He's a straight up G. "Oh, you gonna be a smartass whelp? I'm gonna skin this fucking stag. I make King Robert look like Renly. I ain't give no fucks."
Just a thought about Episode 7 and the rest of Book 1:
How would you guys handled that whole business as Ned? I mean, I keep trying to imagine an out for the Starks and I can't quite find the right escape route? I guess I would have taken Renly's offer and held the Lannisters as collateral and I would have arrested Lancel (at the very least).
Overall I just marvel at how utterly terrible Ned is at his job-- Or any other "good guy" in the book, really (excluding Jon and the other children).
LET THE SPECULATIVE FAN FICTION BEGIN
The only competent "good guys" I can think of are the ones who do good things in kind of shitty ways, for usually shitty reasons. Like Tyrion.
Ned was just far too trusting, lenient, and for whatever reason, didn't expect anyone to actually kill over what he knew, despite Ned himself knowing that they've done it before. It's pretty apparent Ned didn't have a mind for politics, considering that once he found out the truth, he did what any true politician would avoid like the plague; confronting the problem head-on
No one was predicting that Ned was going to die right up until that little shit weasel Joffrey cried "Off with his head!" It was pretty much assured he was going to take the black and live in exile.
Tyrion spoilers post AFFC re: ADWD sample chapter:
basically just posting to see if any of you guys read that sample chapter. It's the fucking shit and Tyrion's arc looks like it's GOING PLACES. Illyrio's involvement is confusing. He's clearly helping out Tyrion and Dany, but who else is he helping? I've never really been able to understand his motivations.
Tyrion spoilers post AFFC re: ADWD sample chapter:
basically just posting to see if any of you guys read that sample chapter. It's the fucking shit and Tyrion's arc looks like it's GOING PLACES. Illyrio's involvement is confusing. He's clearly helping out Tyrion and Dany, but who else is he helping? I've never really been able to understand his motivations.
Post AFFC
It seems to me that Illyrio, and Varys for that matter, are likely helping Doran Martell's cause to support Dany. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are we ever told concretely where Illyrio managed to acquire the dragon eggs? I find it hard to believe that such priceless artifacts would find their way into the open market so easily. Maybe they were supplied by Doran? The Martells did have a long history of wedding the Targaryens after all.
Re Tywin, I'm really liking Charles Dance in that role. Makes me wonder who they're considering to cast as Stannis.
I've always thought that (slightly obvious ACOK and beyond)
If they weren't enemies, Stannis as King + Tywin as Hand would get shit done. Truth.
Tyrion spoilers post AFFC re: ADWD sample chapter:
basically just posting to see if any of you guys read that sample chapter. It's the fucking shit and Tyrion's arc looks like it's GOING PLACES. Illyrio's involvement is confusing. He's clearly helping out Tyrion and Dany, but who else is he helping? I've never really been able to understand his motivations.
Don't forget Illyrio's and Varys' modus operandi: Varys would steal shit and Illyrio would broker the return of said shit for a fee (os something like that, anyway).
Similar concept, but on a much bigger scale. Or maybe not and he just sees a massive profit opportunity - surely whomever he helps place on the throne will feel indebted to him?
I've always thought that (slightly obvious ACOK and beyond)
If they weren't enemies, Stannis as King + Tywin as Hand would get shit done. Truth.
Yeah but everybody would fucking hate them. Who cares about gettin' shit done if you're not popular? Nobody writes songs about that guy who did a lot of shit but nobody liked him that much.
To be fair, if you have three fire breathing dragons at your disposal in a medieval world, and you're not the king shit of something, you're doing something wrong.
If I know American history at all (I'm an Aussie), Abraham Lincon was hated by 50% of your population, yet he is rated as one of your greatest presidents.
Arrested Westeros has me rewatching Arrested Development.
There's an Arrested Westeros waiting to be made out of Robert, Jaime, Cersei, and the whole Hermano episode of AD, but I can't find the right lines to make it work with only a couple panels.
If I know American history at all (I'm an Aussie), Abraham Lincon was hated by 50% of your population, yet he is rated as one of your greatest presidents.
Sometimes, you need dudes who get shit done.
Yeah but half our population hated him because he was like lol no more slavery (which your economy is kinda based on) and no more small state governments and arrested a ton of people with no trial. He got shit done and good on him for it indeed, it's just not like people at the time hated him for no reason. Great man, got shit done, considered to be an asshole... so he is sort of a Lannister after all 8-)
i always find it kind of crazy how the Targaryens were the king shits of westeros, but were really only around for like 300 years
uh you mean longer than America has been a country?
if anything, fantasy authors often use ludicrous periods of time in their stories. the 300 year dynasty is pretty reasonable, but the 8,000 year period the reader is supposed to believe occurs between the others leaving the world and modern day is retarded. that is longer than recorded human history. It would be like if we had a pretty good idea of individuals who came before a work like the bible was written. And the people who fought the others had iron and steel technology.
how is that spoilers? that's like, the basic history of the story. that's the opening backdrop.
that would be like saying "this book is about medieval fantasy political maneuvering with a growing external threat" is a spoiler. They say that information in roughly the second chapter.
Just a thought about Episode 7 and the rest of Book 1:
How would you guys handled that whole business as Ned? I mean, I keep trying to imagine an out for the Starks and I can't quite find the right escape route? I guess I would have taken Renly's offer and held the Lannisters as collateral and I would have arrested Lancel (at the very least).
Overall I just marvel at how utterly terrible Ned is at his job-- Or any other "good guy" in the book, really (excluding Jon and the other children).
LET THE SPECULATIVE FAN FICTION BEGIN
The only competent "good guys" I can think of are the ones who do good things in kind of shitty ways, for usually shitty reasons. Like Tyrion.
Ned was just far too trusting, lenient, and for whatever reason, didn't expect anyone to actually kill over what he knew, despite Ned himself knowing that they've done it before. It's pretty apparent Ned didn't have a mind for politics, considering that once he found out the truth, he did what any true politician would avoid like the plague; confronting the problem head-on
Ned's biggest character flaw is that he not only has near-unshakable honor and respect for the rules, but he expects everyone else to humbly play by the same rules as well. That's why he went to Cersei and offered her an out, just assuming that the shame would make her gracefully retire. It doesn't even occur to him that someone might not give a fuck about their honor and be only interested in power.
i always find it kind of crazy how the Targaryens were the king shits of westeros, but were really only around for like 300 years
uh you mean longer than America has been a country?
if anything, fantasy authors often use ludicrous periods of time in their stories. the 300 year dynasty is pretty reasonable, but the 8,000 year period the reader is supposed to believe occurs between the others leaving the world and modern day is retarded. that is longer than recorded human history. It would be like if we had a pretty good idea of individuals who came before a work like the bible was written. And the people who fought the others had iron and steel technology.
Samwell does eventually end up pointing out that the math just doesn't work on numbers of years when you go back to pre-unification times, he points out that there are stories about knights from before the concept of knights was invented.
Prior to Aegon, record-keeping was just extremely loose in Westeros. Word-of-mouth legends got written down eventually with ludicrously inaccurate timespans in them. It's kinda like all those Biblical characters that end up living for hundreds of years.
Also, it's probably GRRM commenting on that whole medieval technological stasis problem most fantasy has. There's no way any society would wage war using armor, swords and horses for thousands of years without any significant advances with kingdoms never changing and dynasties being kept pure. The real-life middle ages lasted a mere ONE thousand years and even with the massive scientific repression imposed by the church, we still managed to invent steel, crossbows, feudalism, gothic architecture, sailing, and gunpowder near the end. The biggest empire in the western world fell, was remade, half of it fell again, then it had a facelift, then it became a church. Hell the world today is nearly unrecognizable from what it was 50 years ago. Granted the modern world progresses far quicker than a medieval society does.
tl;dr: don't put too much faith in numbers that go back farther than a couple generations in this series.
Posts
Keep in mind that I'm only through Clash.
DEAL WITH IT
Opinions.
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
Sold Dany to Khal Drogo, lied to Viserys about getting his crown, plotted to kill Ned with Varys, and just generally displays a general disregard for others.
Unless, of course, they have something to offer him.
Overall I just marvel at how utterly terrible Ned is at his job-- Or any other "good guy" in the book, really (excluding Jon and the other children).
LET THE SPECULATIVE FAN FICTION BEGIN
I've had the thought before that I could be good at politics but I think I would get tired of it after a week and it wouldn't be fun anymore. And with this kind of politics there isn't really any "retiring"...
The only competent "good guys" I can think of are the ones who do good things in kind of shitty ways, for usually shitty reasons. Like Tyrion.
Cersei commits about a dozen different crimes, then shamelessly takes responsibility for them right in his face, and his response is to give her a chance to escape?
Especially when his daughters are within her reach, just waiting to be kidnapped?
Stupid.
Stupid, stupid, dumb.
Though I can see why he would hesitate; he can barely get Robert to withdraw from a tournament. Trying to convince him not to execute Cersei, Jamie, Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen would've been damn near impossible.
Though I still think Ned is awesome, even though he's got that honor stick shoved right up his ass.
Really, would anybody have questioned it?
"Oh, hey, we lost all your financial records in the revolution, bro. Sorry."
Also, re: Tywinn, the show, and the books I may or may not remember him being in:
I almost want him to live.
but that's because Cersei is fucking crazy
Only through Clash, remember.
Post AFFC
Re Tywin, I'm really liking Charles Dance in that role. Makes me wonder who they're considering to cast as Stannis.
I've always thought that (slightly obvious ACOK and beyond)
Similar concept, but on a much bigger scale. Or maybe not and he just sees a massive profit opportunity - surely whomever he helps place on the throne will feel indebted to him?
Yeah but everybody would fucking hate them. Who cares about gettin' shit done if you're not popular? Nobody writes songs about that guy who did a lot of shit but nobody liked him that much.
Maegor the Cruel.
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
300 years is a p. long time. The US hasn't been around that long and it's king shit of the world.
Plus, dragons.
Sometimes, you need dudes who get shit done.
There's an Arrested Westeros waiting to be made out of Robert, Jaime, Cersei, and the whole Hermano episode of AD, but I can't find the right lines to make it work with only a couple panels.
Yeah but half our population hated him because he was like lol no more slavery (which your economy is kinda based on) and no more small state governments and arrested a ton of people with no trial. He got shit done and good on him for it indeed, it's just not like people at the time hated him for no reason. Great man, got shit done, considered to be an asshole... so he is sort of a Lannister after all 8-)
Some synergy between his avatar and youtubes and comments, good sir.
uh you mean longer than America has been a country?
if anything, fantasy authors often use ludicrous periods of time in their stories. the 300 year dynasty is pretty reasonable, but the 8,000 year period the reader is supposed to believe occurs between the others leaving the world and modern day is retarded. that is longer than recorded human history. It would be like if we had a pretty good idea of individuals who came before a work like the bible was written. And the people who fought the others had iron and steel technology.
thpoilerth
that would be like saying "this book is about medieval fantasy political maneuvering with a growing external threat" is a spoiler. They say that information in roughly the second chapter.
You're ruining the whole series for me, here. ='(
Samwell does eventually end up pointing out that the math just doesn't work on numbers of years when you go back to pre-unification times, he points out that there are stories about knights from before the concept of knights was invented.
Prior to Aegon, record-keeping was just extremely loose in Westeros. Word-of-mouth legends got written down eventually with ludicrously inaccurate timespans in them. It's kinda like all those Biblical characters that end up living for hundreds of years.
Also, it's probably GRRM commenting on that whole medieval technological stasis problem most fantasy has. There's no way any society would wage war using armor, swords and horses for thousands of years without any significant advances with kingdoms never changing and dynasties being kept pure. The real-life middle ages lasted a mere ONE thousand years and even with the massive scientific repression imposed by the church, we still managed to invent steel, crossbows, feudalism, gothic architecture, sailing, and gunpowder near the end. The biggest empire in the western world fell, was remade, half of it fell again, then it had a facelift, then it became a church. Hell the world today is nearly unrecognizable from what it was 50 years ago. Granted the modern world progresses far quicker than a medieval society does.
tl;dr: don't put too much faith in numbers that go back farther than a couple generations in this series.