The timing on this is pretty great. At least if they'd done while they themselves were still claiming to be working on that MMO, one might think CCP didn't want the competition or whatever.
But no. They just cancelled their own project. Great time to force a group of fans to cancel theirs.
+2
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Yet they aren't doing anything with the property. Fuck them. CCP is run by shitheads.
Well, CCP aren't, but WW is. I'm sad to see the project go, but CCP are completely in the right. The Vaulderie project were using all kinds of V:TM properties like the Sabbat and independents in this tentative remake.
This kind of thing always irritates me; I understand that the holder of an IP needs to protect their property, but Bloodlines is a decade old and I can't imagine a fan project dedicated to updating the system could possibly have a negative impact on their current projects.
Yet they aren't doing anything with the property. Fuck them. CCP is run by shitheads.
Well, CCP aren't, but WW is. I'm sad to see the project go, but CCP are completely in the right. The Vaulderie project were using all kinds of V:TM properties like the Sabbat and independents in this tentative remake.
And they were also seeking donations.
I didn't know they were seeking donations. That's really dumb of them.
+5
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Having money change hands is a great way to ensure you get shut down, unless you have explicit permission.
Fleebhas all of the fleeb juiceRegistered Userregular
edited November 2014
Yeah it makes sense. I hate it, but it does make sense. If you don't defend your IP, you loose it. If they (CCP) have any plans, even completely stupid or nebulous ones, they have to make sure no one is using their "property".
Actually, my computer hard drive crashed and I lost my save files, mods, ect. I tried to reinstall it on my new computer awhile back but ran into problems with mods and never bothered to fix them.
The terrible thing about C&D letters/mails isn't that they exist (there's good reason that they do), it's always the moment its given out.
For example in this case that project existed for years. Having it cancelled so late and after cancelling an offical game is kind of a slap in the face.
THAT SAID, they never should have started asking for donations. Thats a sure way to get your project rightfully C&D'd.
Yeah it makes sense. I hate it, but it does make sense. If you don't defend your IP, you loose it.
I don't think that's true. A trademark requires protection; if you don't get all litigious and stop people from calling cotton-tipped swabs "Q-Tips", that term becomes genericized and you lose the legal standing to stop people from calling their products Q-Tips. As far as I know there's no such thing for copyrights. No amount of unlicensed fiction and fan projects will lead to a situation where any Tom, Dick or Universal Studios is allowed to sell a Star Wars film on the market without fear of legal action. They can sue or not sue whoever they want.
It should also be noted that Activision still holds the rights to Bloodlines. So if anybody should have a beef with the fan-made remake of Bloodlines, it should have been Activision.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
It should also be noted that Activision still holds the rights to Bloodlines. So if anybody should have a beef with the fan-made remake of Bloodlines, it should have been Activision.
That was unambiguously addressed in the letter, which is on their website.
While Activision retains certain rights to the game it created, CCP continues to own all other rights associated with Vampire: The Masquerade, including the copyrights and trademarks noted above.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
It should also be noted that Activision still holds the rights to Bloodlines. So if anybody should have a beef with the fan-made remake of Bloodlines, it should have been Activision.
That was unambiguously addressed in the letter, which is on their website.
While Activision retains certain rights to the game it created, CCP continues to own all other rights associated with Vampire: The Masquerade, including the copyrights and trademarks noted above.
So, I'm curious about that, then (because it is a wee bit ambiguous about what is covered). So if Activision retains the rights to the game it created (VtM: Bloodlines), that renders a remake of the Activision property subject to legal action from CCP? Does that include a 1-to-1 remake? And if so, how about an undertaking to completely reskin the game with better models and/or textures or add cut content (if there was cut content) from the game (KotOR2 fan-patch style)?
I guess what it comes down to is where is the legal line drawn? I would imagine a team trying to make its own new game in the World of Darkness universe would be a clear-cut case...but remaking a game put out by a party that didn't send the C&D seems a little less straight-forward.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
Yeah it makes sense. I hate it, but it does make sense. If you don't defend your IP, you loose it. If they (CCP) have any plans, even completely stupid or nebulous ones, they have to make sure no one is using their "property".
I'm not saying I condone it, but I understand.
would have made more sense for them to give the project a green light, and get the update out there to reignite interest in whitewolf products.
All gains without a single penny spent.
+1
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Yeah it makes sense. I hate it, but it does make sense. If you don't defend your IP, you loose it. If they (CCP) have any plans, even completely stupid or nebulous ones, they have to make sure no one is using their "property".
I'm not saying I condone it, but I understand.
would have made more sense for them to give the project a green light, and get the update out there to reignite interest in whitewolf products.
All gains without a single penny spent.
I've attempted to contact CCP/WW about using their property for something. I honestly think that if it's not in-house, they won't let it happen.
So if CCP doesn't own the game, just the WoD franchise, shouldn't they be able to agrue that CCP has no right to stop them since they don't own this pacific piece of software as it was created before CCP owned the rights. CCP couldn't release a special anniversary edition without Activision giving them a C&D.
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited November 2014
Nope. That's not how it works. The game involves their copyright and trademarks. They can make everything except those trademarks, the whole structure of the game can be there, but they can't use anything with WoD art, lore, anything related to the actual copyrighted work Vampire: The Masquerade.
They could make up their own world and have it look exactly like bloodlines but not have any of the WoD names, characters, situations or lore, just the plot of the game with a made up world and characters in it. And then possibly activision could say "hey that's our game you just directly copied it" if they felt like it.
But the whole point of bloodlines is that its a vampire: the masquerade game.
And who gets to use that property?
That's for CCP to decide.
It's really quite simple if you separate it out like that. The trouble here I think is that a few of you who are confused about whether they can do this aren't. Unfortunately the law does.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I don't think anyone is really arguing the law, or saying the law is wrong. Rather it's just obvious there is a complete disconnect in the social contract between a population, a company and the law that's supposed to protect it.
Bloodlines is for all intents and purposes a dead franchise. It has a cult following, but not a following that marketing gives a shit about. Something like a successful fan project could invigorate a long dormant franchise, give it breath and allow for myopic executives to see a business opportunity.
The law exists, and it's not wrong - but eh.. just use it better. This sort of toes the line of the issues with copyright laws in the first place. Businesses buy up patents and properties, and don't do anything with them. The people beg them to do something with a property they cherish, but the business won't budge. I'm being a bit dramatic over what is 'just a game', but this sort of thing exists for all technologies and it's a little depressing every time I see it.
If you have it, use it. If you have no intention of using it, be a little more lenient in how people are celebrating your own property.
Nope. That's not how it works. The game involves their copyright and trademarks. They can make everything except those trademarks, the whole structure of the game can be there, but they can't use anything with WoD art, lore, anything related to the actual copyrighted work Vampire: The Masquerade.
They could make up their own world and have it look exactly like bloodlines but not have any of the WoD names, characters, situations or lore, just the plot of the game with a made up world and characters in it. And then possibly activision could say "hey that's our game you just directly copied it" if they felt like it.
But the whole point of bloodlines is that its a vampire: the masquerade game.
And who gets to use that property?
That's for CCP to decide.
It's really quite simple if you separate it out like that. The trouble here I think is that a few of you who are confused about whether they can do this aren't. Unfortunately the law does.
So what you're saying is that even modding VtM: Bloodlines with updated textures/models would still be a target for a CCP-issued C&D (since the modder would very likely be using WoD art as a source)?
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
If they never asked for money it probably would have been fine, but either way they should have reached out to make sure before putting work in. Pretty sure that's what the Black Mesa team did.
+3
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited November 2014
Pretty sure its still within their rights even if you aren't asking for money. It's just really rare because most companies recognise that as bad pr.
These guys asked for money. I lost all sympathy the moment I found that out. Instead I just became kind of irritated at them. They toasted themselves. It was a really stupid thing to do.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Don't get me wrong, I fully agree that trying to monetize it was a really bad idea (and I realize that's quite a bit of an understatement), but the reason why I'm asking about the viability of modding Bloodlines is to try to hold on to even a shred of hope that a project like Deus Ex New Vision could happen for VtM: Bloodlines. Normally, I'm not one to get hung up by older graphics (I still go back to play Wing Commander: Privateer and Ultima 7 fairly regularly)...but I've never actually finished Bloodlines, and as the years go by, it gets harder and harder to actually sit down and hammer through it due to the game just feeling and looking rougher than I remembered it being.
EDIT - linked and referenced the wrong Deus Ex mod...that has been corrected.
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
I was about to ask how DONTNOD could be making a second game at the same time as Life is Strange since they didn't appear to be a company big enough to be working on multiple titles at the same time. Then the article mentioned they're expanding, so I guess that explains that.
Anyways, the concept of a vampire doctor is interesting enough, provided they don't take it too far into the vampire-with-a-tortured-soul direction.
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
The art is neat, but it seems less like a society and more like one guy against the world. Cautious optimism, though.
0
Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
edited January 2015
Was just thinking about how perfect a VTM game developed by CD Projekt RED would be.
Never going to happen though. Made myself super sad.
So has anyone tried to Final Nights mod? I just happen to start playing as a gangrel female but I've beaten this game so many times I'm almost not wanting to go through the Haunted Hotel again. Also, is there any good HD texture pack mods?
Better World Textures:
This guy has done a lot of good world textures for the game.
Stuff like the roads, walls, bricks, wood, tile, glass, objects. concrete, carpet etc...
You can choose the ones you want or swap them out etc....
Just extract it into the vampire folder.
Posts
"All doorknobs have been replaced with cats. No seriously."
http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/
Yet they aren't doing anything with the property. Fuck them. CCP is run by shitheads.
But no. They just cancelled their own project. Great time to force a group of fans to cancel theirs.
Well, CCP aren't, but WW is. I'm sad to see the project go, but CCP are completely in the right. The Vaulderie project were using all kinds of V:TM properties like the Sabbat and independents in this tentative remake.
And they were also seeking donations.
Shutting it down on the other hand...
I didn't know they were seeking donations. That's really dumb of them.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I'm not saying I condone it, but I understand.
The terrible thing about C&D letters/mails isn't that they exist (there's good reason that they do), it's always the moment its given out.
For example in this case that project existed for years. Having it cancelled so late and after cancelling an offical game is kind of a slap in the face.
THAT SAID, they never should have started asking for donations. Thats a sure way to get your project rightfully C&D'd.
I don't think that's true. A trademark requires protection; if you don't get all litigious and stop people from calling cotton-tipped swabs "Q-Tips", that term becomes genericized and you lose the legal standing to stop people from calling their products Q-Tips. As far as I know there's no such thing for copyrights. No amount of unlicensed fiction and fan projects will lead to a situation where any Tom, Dick or Universal Studios is allowed to sell a Star Wars film on the market without fear of legal action. They can sue or not sue whoever they want.
That was unambiguously addressed in the letter, which is on their website.
So, I'm curious about that, then (because it is a wee bit ambiguous about what is covered). So if Activision retains the rights to the game it created (VtM: Bloodlines), that renders a remake of the Activision property subject to legal action from CCP? Does that include a 1-to-1 remake? And if so, how about an undertaking to completely reskin the game with better models and/or textures or add cut content (if there was cut content) from the game (KotOR2 fan-patch style)?
I guess what it comes down to is where is the legal line drawn? I would imagine a team trying to make its own new game in the World of Darkness universe would be a clear-cut case...but remaking a game put out by a party that didn't send the C&D seems a little less straight-forward.
would have made more sense for them to give the project a green light, and get the update out there to reignite interest in whitewolf products.
All gains without a single penny spent.
I've attempted to contact CCP/WW about using their property for something. I honestly think that if it's not in-house, they won't let it happen.
They could make up their own world and have it look exactly like bloodlines but not have any of the WoD names, characters, situations or lore, just the plot of the game with a made up world and characters in it. And then possibly activision could say "hey that's our game you just directly copied it" if they felt like it.
But the whole point of bloodlines is that its a vampire: the masquerade game.
And who gets to use that property?
That's for CCP to decide.
It's really quite simple if you separate it out like that. The trouble here I think is that a few of you who are confused about whether they can do this aren't. Unfortunately the law does.
Bloodlines is for all intents and purposes a dead franchise. It has a cult following, but not a following that marketing gives a shit about. Something like a successful fan project could invigorate a long dormant franchise, give it breath and allow for myopic executives to see a business opportunity.
The law exists, and it's not wrong - but eh.. just use it better. This sort of toes the line of the issues with copyright laws in the first place. Businesses buy up patents and properties, and don't do anything with them. The people beg them to do something with a property they cherish, but the business won't budge. I'm being a bit dramatic over what is 'just a game', but this sort of thing exists for all technologies and it's a little depressing every time I see it.
If you have it, use it. If you have no intention of using it, be a little more lenient in how people are celebrating your own property.
So what you're saying is that even modding VtM: Bloodlines with updated textures/models would still be a target for a CCP-issued C&D (since the modder would very likely be using WoD art as a source)?
These guys asked for money. I lost all sympathy the moment I found that out. Instead I just became kind of irritated at them. They toasted themselves. It was a really stupid thing to do.
EDIT - linked and referenced the wrong Deus Ex mod...that has been corrected.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Anyways, the concept of a vampire doctor is interesting enough, provided they don't take it too far into the vampire-with-a-tortured-soul direction.
Never going to happen though. Made myself super sad.
Not enough Asstivision.
Does Pieterzoon join up?
Patches I see in the wild:
http://moddb.com/members/gothicseraphim/addons
Before/After:
There's a whole thread of them here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=646159