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Let Eve's Daughter teach you a little something about rape supporters

ShanadeusShanadeus Registered User
edited May 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
From this delightful little blog:
This is a handy guide for women who involve themselves with men. I’ve recently received a bunch of comments from men who say that they aren’t rape supporters because they (1) have never “raped” a woman and/or (2) are gay. If you are around a man who claims to be anti-rape, see how he stacks up.

A man is a rape-supporter if…

He has ever sexually engaged with any woman while she was underage, drunk, high, physically restrained, unconscious, or subjected to psychological, physical, economic, or emotional coercion.
He defends the current legal definition of rape and/or opposes making consent a defense.
He has accused a rape victim of having “buyer’s remorse” or wanting to get money from the man.
He has blamed a woman for “putting herself in a situation” where she “could be” attacked.
He has procured a prostitute.
He characterizes prostitution as a “legitimate” “job” “choice” or defends men who purchase prostitutes.
He has ever revealed he conceives of sex as fundamentally transactional.
He has gone to a strip club.
He is anti-abortion.
He is pro-”choice” because he believes abortion access will make women more sexually available.
He frames discussions of pornography in terms of “freedom of speech.”
He watches pornography in which women are depicted.
He watches any pornography in which sexual acts are depicted as a struggle for power or domination, regardless of whether women are present.
He characterizes the self-sexualizing behavior of some women, such as wearing make-up or high heels, as evidence of women’s desire to “get” a man.
He tells or laughs at jokes involving women being attacked, sexually “hoodwinked,” or sexually harassed.
He expresses enjoyment of movies/musicals/TV shows/plays in which women are sexually demeaned or presented as sexual objects
He mocks women who complain about sexual attacks, sexual harassment, street cat-calls, media depictions of women, or other forms of sexual objectification.
He supports sexual “liberation” and claims women would have more sex with (more) men if society did not “inhibit” them.
He states or implies that women who do not want to have sex with men are “inhibited,” “prudes,” “stuck-up,” “man-haters,” or psychologically ill.
He argues that certain male behaviors towards women are “cultural” and therefore not legitimate subjects of feminist attention.
He ever subordinates the interests of women in a given population to the interests of the men in that population, or proceeds in discussions as if the interests of the women are the same as the interests of the men.
He promotes religious or philosophical views in which a woman’s physical/psychological/emotional/sexual well-being is subordinated to a man’s.
He describes female anatomy in terms of penetration, or uses terms referencing the supposed “emptiness” of female anatomy when describing women.

He defends the physical abuse of women on the grounds of “consent.”
He defends the sexualization or sexual abuse of minor females on the grounds of “consent” or “willingness.”

He promotes the idea that women as a class are happier or more fulfilled if they have children, or that they “should” have children.
He argues that people (or just “men”) have sexual “needs.”
He discusses the “types” of women he finds sexually appealing and/or attempts to demean women by telling them he does not find them sexually appealing.
He sexually objectifies lesbians or lesbian sexual activity.
He defends these actions by saying that some women also engage in them.

So, let’s see how many women reading this know at least one male over the age of 18 who does not fit this list. Anybody?

While Eve's Daughter is so completely wrong about what makes one a "rape supporter", she is right in assuming that there is a thing in the first place - namely people who contributes to the often mentioned "rape culture".

Anyway, do any of your friends fulfill some of the "legit" criteria from the list above?

Shanadeus on

Posts

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    He has ever sexually engaged with any woman, physically restrained,

    Well fuck. Is there a line I'm supposed to get in or something?

    That list is so much stupid.

    sig.jpg
  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Yes, absolutely, I have lots of friends who do.

    I hate these rape culture discussions because sooner or later someone is going to accuse us all of being rapists. I mean common, if she's drunk it's rape? If the guy is also drunk too, really?

    Welp, my parents are rapists. They raped each other.

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  • ForarForar #432 Already prepping for Toronto Fan Expo!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Making fun of rapists and rape culture makes you a rapist.

    ... I'm pretty sure I just made myself a rapist.

    Fuck.

    Edit:

    "He argues that people (or just “men”) have sexual “needs.”"

    This list is pure goosery simply for the inclusion of this. People are sexual creatures. (Most) Men and women alike have sexual needs, and wanting to find others who are capable of meeting those wants/desires/whatevers does not make you a bad person, let alone a "Rape Supporter".

    sigtwo.png
  • MaximumMaximum Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I've been to a strip club...I'm a rapist?

  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Posting in this thread makes you a rapist. Replying to people in this thread means you are raping them.

    I'm so sorry

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  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    "He watches pornography in which women are depicted."

    So wait, aside from being pretty much, well, EVERYONE..

    If you watch gay porn, it's not rape supporting? I can't wrap my head around that beyond the idea that rape is something that only happens to women.

    But wait, I found the trap in the last line. If you point out that any of these impact men as well, or women pull the same shit to men and it's just "shitty behavior" not "rape supporting", you're a rape supporter.

    So if you tell a woman she's just not your type: rape supporter.

    If a woman tells you you're not her type: not rape supporter, just stating an opinion.

    Our culture has a LOT of issues with women. But this list? It's got some good points on shitty behavior. And it handwaves away any criticism of said list by pointing out that if you criticize the list, you're supporting rape.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic I've Done Worse Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Posting in this thread makes you a rapist. Replying to people in this thread means you are raping them.

    I'm so sorry
    .....you shouldn't have made such a provocative comment if you didn't want a reply.
    Spoiler:

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  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    kildy wrote: »
    "He watches pornography in which women are depicted."

    So wait, aside from being pretty much, well, EVERYONE..

    If you watch gay porn, it's not rape supporting? I can't wrap my head around that beyond the idea that rape is something that only happens to women.

    But wait, I found the trap in the last line. If you point out that any of these impact men as well, or women pull the same shit to men and it's just "shitty behavior" not "rape supporting", you're a rape supporter.

    So if you tell a woman she's just not your type: rape supporter.

    If a woman tells you you're not her type: not rape supporter, just stating an opinion.

    Our culture has a LOT of issues with women. But this list? It's got some good points on shitty behavior. And it handwaves away any criticism of said list by pointing out that if you criticize the list, you're supporting rape.

    Sounds like the beginning of a new religion to me. And after tomorrow, there will be a whole lot of people looking for something new to join.

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    He supports sexual “liberation” and claims women would have more sex with (more) men if society did not “inhibit” them.

    I also claim that women would have more sex with other women if society didn't "inhibit" them. :winky:

    But yeah, I'm a supporter of rapers.

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  • MrMisterMrMister Valuing scholarship above all elseRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Shanadeus wrote: »
    While Eve's Daughter is so completely wrong about what makes one a "rape supporter", she is right in assuming that there is a thing in the first place - namely people who contributes to the often mentioned "rape culture".

    Anyway, do any of your friends fulfill some of the "legit" criteria from the list above?

    I think that list was probably a bad way to kick things off, since it's so ridiculously inflammatory (and ridiculous).

    Maybe it would help if you said which the legit criteria were actually supposed to be?

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Maybe it would help if you said which the legit criteria were actually supposed to be?
    How about you're a rape supporter if you actually, you know, support rape.

    sig.jpg
  • ShanadeusShanadeus Registered User
    edited May 2011
    Oh, and she does come up with a couple of comebacks to people commenting on "sexual needs" and whatnot like you guys did:
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:

    I'll edit my OP and bold the criteria I consider somewhat legitimate.

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    ...how can you not sexually objectify lesbian sexual activity...what am I supposed to do, close my eyes and walk away slowly?

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  • Kate of LokysKate of Lokys Registered User
    edited May 2011
    This is a handy guide for men who involve themselves with women. I’ve recently received a bunch of comments from women who say that they aren’t rape supporters because they (1) have never “raped” a man or been raped, and/or (2) are lesbians. If you are around a woman who claims to be anti-rape, see how she stacks up.

    A woman is a rape-supporter if…

    She has ever sexually engaged with any man while he or she was underage, drunk, high, physically restrained, unconscious, or subjected to psychological, physical, economic, or emotional coercion.
    She defends the current legal definition of rape and/or opposes making consent a defense.
    She has accused a rape victim of having “buyer’s remorse” or wanting to get money from the man or woman.
    She has blamed a man or woman for “putting his or herself in a situation” where he or she “could be” attacked.
    She has procured or worked as a prostitute.
    She characterizes prostitution as a “legitimate” “job” “choice” or defends men or women who purchase prostitutes.
    She has ever revealed she conceives of sex as fundamentally transactional.
    She has gone to a strip club.
    She is anti-abortion.
    She frames discussions of pornography in terms of “freedom of speech.”
    She watches pornography.
    She watches any pornography in which sexual acts are depicted as a struggle for power or domination, regardless of whether men are present.
    She characterizes the self-sexualizing behavior of some women, such as wearing make-up or high heels, as evidence of women’s desire to “get” a man.
    She tells or laughs at jokes involving women being attacked, sexually “hoodwinked,” or sexually harassed.
    She expresses enjoyment of movies/musicals/TV shows/plays in which women are sexually demeaned or presented as sexual objects, which is to say, any entertainment media ever
    She mocks men or women who complain about sexual attacks, sexual harassment, street cat-calls, media depictions of men or women, or other forms of sexual objectification.
    She supports sexual “liberation” and claims people would have more sex with each other if society did not “inhibit” them.
    She states or implies that men or women who do not want to have sex are “inhibited,” “prudes,” “stuck-up,” “man-haters,” "woman-haters," or psychologically ill.
    She argues that certain male behaviors towards women are “cultural” and therefore not legitimate subjects of feminist attention.
    She argues that certain female behaviors towards men are "cultural" and therefore not legitimate subjects of feminist attention.
    She ever subordinates the interests of men in a given population to the interests of the women in that population, or proceeds in discussions as if the interests of the men are the same as the interests of the women.
    She promotes religious or philosophical views in which a woman’s physical/psychological/emotional/sexual well-being is subordinated to a man’s, or in which a man's are subordinated to a woman's.
    She describes female anatomy in terms of penetration, or uses terms referencing the supposed “emptiness” of female anatomy when describing women.
    She defends the physical abuse of women on the grounds of “consent.”
    She defends the physical abuse of men on the grounds of "consent."
    She defends the sexualization or sexual abuse of minors on the grounds of “consent” or “willingness.”
    She promotes the idea that women as a class are happier or more fulfilled if they have children, or that they “should” have children.
    She argues that people have sexual “needs.”
    She discusses the “types” of men she finds sexually appealing and/or attempts to demean men by telling them she does not find them sexually appealing.
    She sexually objectifies lesbians or lesbian sexual activity.
    She defends these actions by saying that some men also engage in them.

    Shit.

    SHIT.

    You guys...

    I'm a rape-supporter.

    Seriously, this kind of thing makes me so mad that all I can do is laugh at it. Rape is bad, and I don't think any sane person would argue otherwise. But for fuck's sake, saying that every guy who goes to a strip club supports rape is ridiculous. I watch porn. I laugh at sexist jokes. I think more people should have more sex more often. By the twisted logic of this list, I'm a rape-supporter, and that's just retarded.

    (Unless, of course, the original list was deliberately gendered the way it was because only men can support rape, which is about six more kinds of fucked up in the head).

    I'm here to tell you about voting. Imagine you're locked in a huge underground nightclub filled with sinners, whores, freaks and unnameable things that rape pit bulls for fun. And you ain't allowed out until you all vote on what you're going to do tonight [. . .] So you vote for television, and everyone else, as far as your eye can see, votes to fuck you with switchblades. That's voting. You're welcome.
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Pretty good example of someone doing more harm to their own cause then good.

    sig.jpg
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt Damn you, eidetic memory! Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    He has ever sexually engaged with any woman, physically restrained,

    Well fuck. Is there a line I'm supposed to get in or something?

    That list is so much stupid.
    Yeah, my SO would tell Eve's Daughter right where to shove it-
    Spoiler:
    Posting in this thread makes you a rapist. Replying to people in this thread means you are raping them.

    I'm so sorry
    Reading this thread makes you a rapist.

    Gotcha all now.

    Origin ID: Null_Cypher
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  • RadiationRadiation Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Shanadeus wrote: »
    If women behaved towards men as men do towards women, we would be hunting you down and killing you, torturing you while we said we loved you, raping you and calling it intimacy. None of you have addressed any of that – it’s all froth-mouthed insults, and people saying that my little post on the internet is “just as bad” as pimps or snuff films and is “the real reason” why men simply can’t be bothered to stop buying little girls in Thailand.
    I uh...I'm not even sure how she drew this line from what is considered "STANDARD MALE BEHAVIOR".

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  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    She has a point that coercing people into sex is an issue (and in colleges: taking advantage of people who are not in full control of themselves. IE: drunk as shit and prone to suggestion)

    But I do think coerce/force are completely different, and shouldn't be included together in a question, just like "say you're not his type and/or demean them" are different entirely. You can turn someone down without demeaning them, and you can talk someone in to a date without forcing them. There's an element of malice that seems to be assumed in a number of the bullet points.

    The list still seems to be designed as "ALL MEN SUPPORT RAPE CULTURE" as defined as: rape culture = the status quo. And thus if you're alive and breathing, you're supporting it.

    I don't think that's the right approach to actually Fix the things that are wrong in our culture's view and treatment of women.

  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I'm happy the Rapture is tomorrow. I couldn't live with myself as a rape-supporter.

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  • RadiationRadiation Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    I'm happy the Rapture is tomorrow. I couldn't live with myself as a rape-supporter.

    Do you have the punch ready to celebrate our lord christs return with?
    Because that's the only way to see it happen.

    steam_sig.png
  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Radiation wrote: »
    Shanadeus wrote: »
    If women behaved towards men as men do towards women, we would be hunting you down and killing you, torturing you while we said we loved you, raping you and calling it intimacy. None of you have addressed any of that – it’s all froth-mouthed insults, and people saying that my little post on the internet is “just as bad” as pimps or snuff films and is “the real reason” why men simply can’t be bothered to stop buying little girls in Thailand.
    I uh...I'm not even sure how she drew this line from what is considered "STANDARD MALE BEHAVIOR".

    She's running with the belief that a large number of men would do this if they could get away with it. She's basing this off 40% of incoming college students saying they would coerce women into sex if they thought they could get away with it. (I removed the "/force" because they were probably answering yes to Coerce, not "hold down and savage" part)

    That's a large number, but it's not because they want to hunt down and kill or torture women, it's because A) we teach sex in a stupid way, and B) coercing people into doing things is pretty standard in our culture, sex or no. What the hell do you think marketing IS? On some level, getting a haircut and dressing up to go to a party is subtly trying to coerce people into finding you more attractive/worth getting to know better.

  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Radiation wrote: »
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    I'm happy the Rapture is tomorrow. I couldn't live with myself as a rape-supporter.

    Do you have the punch ready to celebrate our lord christs return with?
    Because that's the only way to see it happen.

    Punch and pie.

    Until then, I'm gonna go watch some porn.

    </derail>

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Is the author of this list one of those feminists who says all sex is rape?

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  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Six pack on a dick Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    It's like Andrea Dworkin reincarnated. Sorry person with a blog, you're about 35 years late on being inflammatory.

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  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Great list. I'll just go shoot myself to save some time in the future.

    Also, @ Ronya, yes, Cat's contribution would be welcome

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I can't help but wonder if there are any radical feminists who have used a strap-on dildo to engage in rapist raping vigilantism. Failing that, I wonder if any radical feminists have been inspired to emulate the events of Hard Candy.

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  • TachTach Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    This article gets a whole lot funnier when you imagine it being told by Jeff Foxworthy.

    And then add "You might be a rape-supporter." to the end of each sentence.

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  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I have difficulty telling if this is a parody or not. Its unfortunate that this kind of nonsense, whether meant honestly or as some kind of parody / astroturf, tends to riddle any attempts at honest discussion about rape and rape culture.

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    While I recognize the need for a lot of cultural closet cleaning when it comes to rape and how we view/treat it, I don't see things like this blog post which are quite obviously intended to shut down all iterations of that conversation that are being held by people they disagree with as being helpful. If you tell a wide swath of the population that they're terrible, irredeemable people because of the gender they were born into, you're not going to keep them on board to actually fix things.

    I am, however, somewhat darkly proud of the fact that I only fit three of those criteria; two of which are porn related and the other due to my own understanding of what works for me from a physical attraction standpoint.

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    This just goes to show that crazy women can get as fucked-up a worldview on sex as crazy men can.

    This kind of thing is just meant to stir up shit and to bait angry responses so that she can justify another blog post. This being the internet, I would assume the always-applicable Greater Internet Dickwad Theory will support my claim that a dickwad will go ahead and spout off an angry email to Eve's Daughter and keep providing her with fuel for the fire. This cycle will continue until A) there are no more dickwads or B) people stop responding to her bait and realize she's just trying to stir up crap like fundie religious movements and other groups.

    I understand that today's media leaves a lot to be desired. But calling 95% of men rape supporters isn't the way to go about changing anything.

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  • rockrngerrockrnger Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    In what world would consent not be a defence against rape?

  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Wait, so if I
    discuss the “types” of women he finds sexually appealing and/or attempts to demean women by telling them he does not find them sexually appealing.

    I support rape. Sorry brain, just because you make me more attracted to some women than others. I guess we supprot rape.

    This list is beyond absurd.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 2011
    That is a stupid blog.

    This is a stupid thread.

    I am locking this stupid thread about a stupid blog.

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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited May 2011
    Shanadeus, I am going to ever-so-gently suggest that you choose less fucking retarded starting material for a thread in future. Debate and Discourse threads are for debating and discourse, not for everyone to get their Three Minutes Hate on against the cartoonishly overblown or the mentally ill.

This discussion has been closed.