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Less than lethal methods of dealing with a bear.

DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
edited June 2011 in Help / Advice Forum
A rather random question that is purely in the realm of hypothesis. I am not actually trapped in a small, isolated cabin with a ravenous bear outside, patiently waiting for me to open the door and serve myself to him.

How effective would a taser be against a bear? Preferably the kind of taser that fires a dart connected to wire, rather than the one you have to be right next to the bear for, although if those carry higher voltages then maybe they would be more effective?

I don't even know if there's studies on the usage of tasers on non-humans, but I figure someone out there has to know.

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Posts

  • CooterTKECooterTKE Registered User
    edited May 2011
    You would just make it mad with a taser and you would probably lose your face.

  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    You might want to look at the studies that the Alaskan Department of Fish and Game are doing. Relevant link here:
    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=450&issue_id=84

    It appears that bears are deterred by tasers if they aren't outright stunned by them.

    Steam ID: Hahnsoo, Steam Name currently: Hahnsopolis | PSN: Hahnsoo | Monster Hunter Tri: Hahnsoo, E8HJCA
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I want to say that it was on the Colbert Report they showcased a taser that was meant to pack enough of a jolt to take down a bear.

    Honestly though, I'd say hope you have bear strength pepper spray. If there's one thing an animal hates, it's persistent following pain. If you could get somewhere where it would have trouble getting you, say lure it near an open window too small for it to get you through, you might have good luck giving it a face full of pepper.

    Origin ID: Null_Cypher
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  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    edited May 2011
    Humans have pretty soft skin. Bears, I suspect, have a tougher hide. I'd guess that the hardest part of success in this situation would be having the prongs penetrate the fur and the skin to deliver the electrons.

    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • CasualCasual Ho Ho Ho Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Hypothetically, you would just piss it off. Tasers are designed with human body mass in mind, bears are several times that. Even stuff like cattle prods aren't designed to incapacitate the cow.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Steps to dealing with a bear:
    1: Know how to avoid them
    2: Know what to do if you meet one

    Ask someone at your nearest state/national park to take you through bear etiquette.

  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Actually, in the case of bears, they will far more often run away when exposed to noxious stimuli. Every major US park with bears have "bear training" where they find the local bears and associate an airhorn with rubber pellets from a shotgun... the bears learn that the ow-ow-ies come when they hear the airhorn, and thus typically run away when hearing an airhorn again. It has to actually hurt/stun them, though, and human-sized tasers have been shown to do that (you'll have to dig around on the internet to read some of the studies, but they are out there).

    Steam ID: Hahnsoo, Steam Name currently: Hahnsopolis | PSN: Hahnsoo | Monster Hunter Tri: Hahnsoo, E8HJCA
  • EWomEWom Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    First it helps to know what type of bear you're dealing with. Black bear, grizzly bear, polar bear? All three of them act differently.

    Bear spray can work well against bears. I wouldn't trust my life to a taser that was meant for a human, as bear protection. If there are special bear tasers, then sure use those. I know a guy who used a road flare against a grizzly bear, and just the fire from the flare scared it off, before it could even get close enough to be touched with it. Downside to that though is if the bear is not afraid of the fire, and knocks you down onto your own flare, then you're dealing with horrible burning and being mauled by a bear.

    Also there will never be a time there is a ravenous bear waiting outside your cabin for you to open your door. But there may be a time when there is a ravenous bear, busting into your cabin. Bears really don't give a shit if you've closed the doors and windows or not.

    Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
  • stormbringerstormbringer Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Bear spray then a .45 to the head in that order. Even then it has to be a extremely good shot, there are accounts of them being hit with major caliber handguns and just running straight to the guy/gal and munching down.

  • vegeta_666vegeta_666 CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Bear spray then a .45 to the head in that order. Even then it has to be a extremely good shot, there are accounts of them being hit with major caliber handguns and just running straight to the guy/gal and munching down.

    I'd say a .45 to the head is slightly lethal.

    The OP is looking to not actually kill the figurative bear. :P

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    Steam: abunchofdaftpunk | PSN: noautomobilesgo | Lastfm: sjchszeppelin | Backloggery: colincummings | 3DS FC: 1392-6019-0219 |
  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited June 2011
    I once saw a documentary about a guy living among polar bears (you know, the biggest ones) for a year. Apparently running towards a bear screaming and waving around with a stick is not something they expect from their food (well, he had a rifle too, just in case). Oh, and he also had a Husky that went after whole packs of bears alone.

  • Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I once saw a documentary about a guy living among polar bears (you know, the biggest ones) for a year. Apparently running towards a bear screaming and waving around with a stick is not something they expect from their food (well, he had a rifle too, just in case). Oh, and he also had a Husky that went after whole packs of bears alone.

    Brown Bears/Black Bears/Grizzly's are more likely to maul your face off if you give them a challenge like that. If the bear isn't hungry, you're better off curling in to a ball and taking a few hits. If it is hungry... god help you.

    headphones2.jpg
  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited June 2011
    countless internet-videos have made me believe that bears will run away from any wolverine/otter/anything that shows teeth, so I'm inclined to think that bears are secretly just big chubby cowards :P

  • Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    My information is based off of boyscout handbook circa 1998 though...

    headphones2.jpg
  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I once saw a documentary about a guy living among polar bears (you know, the biggest ones) for a year. Apparently running towards a bear screaming and waving around with a stick is not something they expect from their food (well, he had a rifle too, just in case). Oh, and he also had a Husky that went after whole packs of bears alone.

    Brown Bears/Black Bears/Grizzly's are more likely to maul your face off if you give them a challenge like that. If the bear isn't hungry, you're better off curling in to a ball and taking a few hits. If it is hungry... god help you.

    black bears are giant pussies and will run off for the smallest reason....

    ....unless they're a mom with cubs or a male with food nearby (like garbage), then don't mess with em at all.

    in general, if a bear is attacking you defensively (to protect food or young), you're supposed to play dead.

    if a bear is attacking you to eat you, yell scream punch kick and struggle. aim for the eyes and nose like a shark.

    if it wants your cheeseburger, give it the damn cheeseburger.

  • EskimoDaveEskimoDave Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Black bears are unpredictable.
    Polar bears are rather friendly for being the largest killing machines in North America.
    Playing dead makes you easier to kill.

    Best defence is a swan kick to the jaw as they charge.

  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited June 2011
    many victims of bear attacks survived by playing dead (usually cubs are involved though)

  • Psychotic OnePsychotic One Never let an alligator... Do your taxesRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Bear mace for less than lethal option. If you get a Taser I'd make sure its a Air Taser. You do not want to be within arm or bite range of the bear. Drive stunning a bear sounds suicidal.

    For realistic protection I'd say a Mossberg shotgun or a Taurus Judge but I'm not sure on the effectiveness of shot shell ammo vs a bear.

  • FantasmaFantasma Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Bears are wild animals, a taser is actually used on humans.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Treadwell

    Hear my warnings, unbelievers. We have raised altars in this land so that we may sacrifice you to our gods. There is no hope in opposing the inevitable. Put down your arms, unbelievers, and bow before the forces of Chaos!
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 a.k.a. Nubmonger/Antaeus#1352, 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion Oakland, CARegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Just so you guys know, this is what I see in my head when I read posts in this thread:

    dwight_schrute_crying.jpg

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
  • MrOlettaMrOletta Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Bear spray then a .45 to the head in that order. Even then it has to be a extremely good shot, there are accounts of them being hit with major caliber handguns and just running straight to the guy/gal and munching down.

    There was a quote on a gun forum once of a hiker asking if a .45 was adequate bear defense. Someone suggested filing off the front site before you went on your way, that way when the bear takes the gun away and shoves it up your ass it won't hurt as much.

    Really though, bear spray is your perfect solution.

  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2011
    When in the backwoods you should wear bells or something that makes noise when you walk, as well as carry bear-strength pepper spray.

    If you come across signs of bear activity, you can identify the bear type by its droppings. Black bear droppings will be dark and well-formed. Grizzly bear droppings have bells and smell like pepper.

  • EWomEWom Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    .45 acp is not a round you want to use on bears. .45's have very low penetration and are meant to be used against humans. Grizzly bear skulls can and have deflected .30-06 rounds, which makes the .45 look like a cap gun. You never want to aim for the head on a bear. Heart & lungs only.

    When I was really big into backpacking I solo'd deep into grizzly territory many, many, times, as well as slept out in the open rather than a tent. Tents make bears curious.

    I always carried bear bells, bear spray, and a .357 mag minimum with me. The best defense against a bear is to not surprise one. Make noise constantly, and let the bears know you're coming. More often than not you'll never see the bear, because it will choose to let you by with out incident.

    Last year my cousin was elk hunting, and had to give up his elk to a grizzly. He hunts with a .308, which can kill a grizzly. But decided that leaving the elk to the bear, and him leaving unharmed was a better choice than not killing the grizzly instantly and instead facing off against an enraged bear.

    Some parks use 12ga shotguns loaded with bean-bag or rubber slugs and shoot them at bears delivering quite a sting whenever they get too close to "human" areas, such as parking lots and picnic grounds.

    Less than lethal shotgun rounds are hard to find, but have the potential of working.j

    Of course if you come between a bear and it's cubs, nothing you do is going to stop it, until one of the two of you is dead. Which is why people always say to play dead.

    I've come across many black bears in my adventures and have had an incident yet. That' doesn't mean when I see a black bear, I should assume there will be no incident.

    It's also very important to be able to identify what type of bear you're coming across.

    Take the online test here, it only takes a couple of minutes.

    http://fwp.mt.gov/education/hunter/bearID/default.html

    Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
  • AnonyMoose7AnonyMoose7 Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Anyone thought of how to deal with a moose? Like what if I charge you and you dun wanna kill me, eh?

  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Taser for wildlife management. Though I'd prefer to just try to not be in these situations rather than see if a taser is going to put down a bear.

  • EWomEWom Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Anyone thought of how to deal with a moose? Like what if I charge you and you dun wanna kill me, eh?

    The best way to deal with moose is to climb a tree. I've been charged and treed by moose plenty of times. Bulls in rutt, or cows with calves are unpredictable and dangerous.

    I was charged by a bull moose in some swampy ground with no trees around to climb once when I was out hiking, I just stood there and watched, assuming that I was going to die, because there was no other option for me. He stopped about 10ft away from me, turned and walked off. It was probably the most exciting thing I've been through.

    Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
  • DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Are we talking about a bear roaming outside of your house? Pick up the phone and call the cops. Or animal control I guess?

    If you're wandering around in the wilderness without a real weapon, it's your own damn fault for being killed. The bear wouldn't hesitate to kill you for one second if you threatened it. Why should you?

  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I read that black bears are most unlikely to respond aggressively if startled (hence the youtube videos of black bears being run out of peoples yards by cats and such). However, in the rare instances where black bears attack humans out of hunger-inspired desperation they have proven that they can absolutely kill you and eat you with little difficulty. Grizzly bears are much more likely to respond with initial aggression if suddenly happened upon or startled, but an extremely loud noise (gun shot, bear bomb) or other noxious stimuli can deter them if they are still within the initial decision-making stage of the encounter. If a grizzly bear is actively angry and attacking you, yeah, pretty much you're fucked unless you can fool it by playing dead (but that won't work if it's hungry). Polar bears can be quite docile when they are not hungry. The problem is that since they live at the top of their food chain, their reaction is always based on whether they are hungry or not. If they are hungry and they see something moving, as far as they are concerned it's food. If they are not hungry, they are likely to just ignore it or possibly investigate it briefly before ignoring it. Black and grizzly bears on the other hand, only rarely regard humans as food. Polar bears always regard us as food.

  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2011
    I read that black bears are most unlikely to respond aggressively if startled (hence the youtube videos of black bears being run out of peoples yards by cats and such). However, in the rare instances where black bears attack humans out of hunger-inspired desperation they have proven that they can absolutely kill you and eat you with little difficulty. Grizzly bears are much more likely to respond with initial aggression if suddenly happened upon or startled, but an extremely loud noise (gun shot, bear bomb) or other noxious stimuli can deter them if they are still within the initial decision-making stage of the encounter. If a grizzly bear is actively angry and attacking you, yeah, pretty much you're fucked unless you can fool it by playing dead (but that won't work if it's hungry). Polar bears can be quite docile when they are not hungry. The problem is that since they live at the top of their food chain, their reaction is always based on whether they are hungry or not. If they are hungry and they see something moving, as far as they are concerned it's food. If they are not hungry, they are likely to just ignore it or possibly investigate it briefly before ignoring it. Black and grizzly bears on the other hand, only rarely regard humans as food. Polar bears always regard us as food.

    You seem to know a lot about bears.

  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Polar bears always regard us as food.

    too bad we can't be dogs then :-(

    also, cracker shells

  • moocowmoocow Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    If you live/stay in bear country, make sure your garbage is locked up tight or put in a place they can't reach. If they get used to dining at your garbage can, they're a lot more likely to cross paths with you.

    imttnk.png
  • Niceguy MyeyeNiceguy Myeye Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I always got a kick out of this.
    Spoiler:

  • UnderwhelmingUnderwhelming myMomIsTheJam July 13, 2013 Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    countless internet-videos have made me believe that bears will run away from any wolverine/otter/anything that shows teeth, so I'm inclined to think that bears are secretly just big chubby cowards :P

    Street Fighter-style showdown. Watch out for that bear roundhouse kick.

  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2011
    countless internet-videos have made me believe that bears will run away from any wolverine/otter/anything that shows teeth, so I'm inclined to think that bears are secretly just big chubby cowards :P

    Street Fighter-style showdown. Watch out for that bear roundhouse kick.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUePVgajXs0

    Sagat is overpowered.

  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    As mentioned, black bears are cowards. My father used to, as a child, separate black bears from their cubs, tree the cubs, and play a game where he'd throw rocks and use a stick to keep the mother bear away from the tree.

    Yeah, as far as bears were concerned, my father was kind of a dick.

    But short of starving, a black bear probably isn't going to bother you. Yell at it, throw stones at it, smack it with a stick, chase it. It'll run off. They really are cowards. So if you just live near black bears, you don't really have to worry about it unless bears in the area are acclimatized to humans (like trash raiders.) I dunno what the policy is in the US, but in Canada there aren't a lot of bears that wander into town --the first time a bear does, it's tagged and returned to the wild, and the second time it does, it's shot. At least that's policy in my province.

    So for black bears, at most I'd carry around a shampoo bottle filled with ammonia or some bear spray.

    If you're around grizzlies, they're worth a bit of worry, as they can be real dangerous. But I'd be a lot more focused about knowing what body language to present to them than about having a gun or bear spray on hand to deal with them. Stand up straight, do not run away (grizzlies are creepily fast in a way that you can't really imagine until you see it,) but definitely don't be aggressive. Face and watch the grizzly continually, and hold your ground. A grizzly will usually leave, or bluff a few charges at you (do not retreat when they do, or it's not going to be a bluff anymore) and then turn around and leave. And you probably should too. For whatever reason, bears find bipeds a bit confounding. Actually, deer do too. Moose don't seem to care: in rut or as a sow with calves, moose are a lot more dangerous than grizzlies.

    A big exception is if you're unlucky enough to come across some carrion before you smell it. Bears, even black bears, react badly to people stumbling across their carrion. If you ever see carrion in the mountains, just turn around and leave. Immediately. Always. A cougar isn't going to fight you over carrion, but a bear sure will. So just back off and go home.

    I was always taught that the best way to deal with a charging (not just bluffing) grizzly was to shoot it in the face with shot, then dodge to the right (because apparently most grizzlies are left handed, and will veer to the right when blinded) and then finish them off with a proper gun. I've never had occasion to test this, thankfully. My grandfather was the last person in my family who ever had to kill a grizzly.

    If you had to kill a grizzly with a pistol, a .44 magnum would probably be your best choice.

    Erik
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