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[DnD+GW 4E Discussion] Distinctly lacks anything to Jenga

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Posts

  • AnialosAnialos RPG MPD patient #1 Registered User regular
    Brings a whole new meaning to throwing punches.

    Dichotomy wrote: »
    I play a lot of video games but I wouldn't call myself a "gamer" because "gamer" has become a pretty fucking disgusting label

    like "skinhead" or "republican"
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    holy shit they finally added themes to the compendium! When did that happen?

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  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    Huh, looks recent. They've had the powers from them in a while but the full Theme description ala paragon paths looks new.

    More importantly, they already have the Elemental book stuff in the Compendium that was released just 3 days ago.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Yeah, they don't have the elemental themes in the CB yet, which is why looked on the off chance. It only took 2 years...

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Weird. They are in the CB, but for not if you select an Encounters character. If you do the home setting you can see them.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus IT'S DARE! Registered User regular
    Anialos wrote: »
    Brings a whole new meaning to throwing punches.

    I'd say they're more like hadoukens.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus IT'S DARE! Registered User regular
    BTW I've been reading through the flavor fluff in Heroes of the Elemental Chaos and it's great. So much info on primordials and various races' interactions with the plane of Elemental Chaos. The themes are damn nice, too.

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    The Water Shaper level 1 passive seems pretty crazy compared to the rest.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus IT'S DARE! Registered User regular
    Well, if you think you're going to be playing in a lot of oceans and seas, maybe.

    Ironwrought theme is instantly on my Dwarf Battlemind, let me tell you.

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Yeah, that Ironwrought one is pretty rad as well. Now all my Darksun themes want passives. :(

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  • SJSJ Registered User regular
    The Ironwrought theme is literally Dwarf: The Themening.

  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    The Water Shaper level 1 passive seems pretty crazy compared to the rest.

    All of its benefits (outside speaking Primordial) is actually what the Aquatic keyword trait already gives creatures. It just rarely comes up because most campaigns don't run with aquatic combat and most races aren't Aquatic. Is very useful if you figure you'll be on the Elemental Plane of Water though!

  • HenslerHensler Registered User regular
    Just signed up for the new Encounters season. I missed Session 0 with my group, but it was just character building, so I should be good. It's going to be my first experience with 4th Edition. I really wanted to try Pathfinder, but gotta do what the group wants and the Encounters program looks good :). I'm glad I didn't invest too heavily in 4th edition materials now, though since I'm already seeing 5E threads popping up on here.

  • bssbss BIBIBABIBABIBUBIII Madison, WIRegistered User regular
    The main 5e thread is primarily some of us taking the piss out of what we've seen so far. How you feel about that will depend heavily on how much you end up liking 4e.

    I have never played an Encounters session (other than the Neverwinter intro at Gen Con) because I am a hermit and can't be bothered to go to a gaming store on a weeknight, but I've heard good things.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus IT'S DARE! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    SJ wrote: »
    The Ironwrought theme is literally Dwarf: The Themening.

    Well, so is the Earthforger. The Level 10 passive benefit is literally the Dwarf racial power that reduces forced movement by 1 square. Of course if a Dwarf takes the theme, that means they will reduce it by 2 squares.

    DarkPrimus on
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  • SJSJ Registered User regular
    Err, whoops. Now that I look at it again Earthforger is the one that I was thinking about. But either one really, yeah.

  • LeztaLezta Registered User regular
    Quick question on Inherent Bonuses - you don't get the item bonuses (AC, Ref, to hit etc) right? So why is the CB doing that even when the the IB box is ticked?

    Or have I just completely misunderstood how it works?

  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    Inherent bonuses give you an enhancement bonus to your attacks/damage/defenses based upon your level.

  • LeztaLezta Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote:
    Inherent bonuses give you an enhancement bonus to your attacks/damage/defenses based upon your level.

    Uh huh. But this is instead of the bonus any items you do get will give you, right?

  • SJSJ Registered User regular
  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    Lezta wrote: »
    Aegis wrote:
    Inherent bonuses give you an enhancement bonus to your attacks/damage/defenses based upon your level.

    Uh huh. But this is instead of the bonus any items you do get will give you, right?

    No, if your items have a higher enhancement bonus than what you'd normally have from inherent bonuses then the higher bonus would apply like normal as same typed bonuses never stack.

    Item/Power/Racial/Feat/etc. bonuses to stats are still unaffected by inherent bonuses as the only thing it does is give you scaling enhancement to flatten weapon/armour progression that otherwise might lag.

  • LeztaLezta Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote:
    Lezta wrote: »
    Aegis wrote:
    Inherent bonuses give you an enhancement bonus to your attacks/damage/defenses based upon your level.

    Uh huh. But this is instead of the bonus any items you do get will give you, right?

    No, if your items have a higher enhancement bonus than what you'd normally have from inherent bonuses then the higher bonus would apply like normal as same typed bonuses never stack.

    Item/Power/Racial/Feat/etc. bonuses to stats are still unaffected by inherent bonuses as the only thing it does is give you scaling enhancement to flatten weapon/armour progression that otherwise might lag.

    Ahhh, I get it now. Thanks, it was causing a bit confusion at the table!

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    So I've decided to just kill the whole feat tax magic item progression stuff outright in my game.

    Everyone gets the Expertise +1/tier to hit in everything they do (they still have to buy the feat to get the other stuff), even non-weapon and non-implement attacks. In addition to the usual inherent bonus rules, everyone's magic items scale with their inherent bonus level. If I want to give them a real power boost I'll do it by upgrading their uncommon gear into rare gear.

    This way, they can focus on making the character they want, and I can focus on INTERESTING items instead of slight upgrades. I am in love with things like Folding Boats and Hedge Wizard's Gloves and Restful Bedrolls.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus IT'S DARE! Registered User regular
    Hedge Mage Gloves are the shit.

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  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Hmm, wonder if there's a potentially unintended side effect of Tome Expertise's static:
    In addition, enemies adjacent to your conjurations or summoned creatures grant combat advantage. An enemy that is immune to fear is immune to this effect.

    Mage Hand (wizard cantrip, also available through Hedge Mage Gloves) is a conjuration. Congrats, you now have a minor action level 1 cantrip that, while previously an arguably completely non-combat spell, now is available for use to grant combat advantage all day every day. I would guess they might errata this somehow.

    Aegis on
  • MMAgChMMAgCh remember tomorrow. Registered User regular
    "My Mage Hand tickles the orc."

    Good catch, though. There are probably some more interactions like these that arguably weren't intended. It'll be curious to see which of them get errata'd out of existence.

  • HenslerHensler Registered User regular
    bss wrote: »
    The main 5e thread is primarily some of us taking the piss out of what we've seen so far. How you feel about that will depend heavily on how much you end up liking 4e.

    I have never played an Encounters session (other than the Neverwinter intro at Gen Con) because I am a hermit and can't be bothered to go to a gaming store on a weeknight, but I've heard good things.

    I just made an archer ranger for my Encounters game - I can't think of a character that would be simpler to play for seeing how I feel about 4E. If I stick with these rules, I'll branch out to something more fun :). And it seems like every single game group I've found in my area meets on Wednesday nights for some reason, not just the Encounters groups.

  • hippofanthippofant Registered User regular
    MMAgCh wrote:
    "My Mage Hand tickles the orc."

    Good catch, though. There are probably some more interactions like these that arguably weren't intended. It'll be curious to see which of them get errata'd out of existence.

    Well, it says "An enemy that is immune to fear is immune to this effect." So it's more like, the orc going, "Oh shit, that mage hand is about to tickle me!!!! AHHHHH!!!"

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    MMAgCh wrote:
    "My Mage Hand tickles the orc."

    Good catch, though. There are probably some more interactions like these that arguably weren't intended. It'll be curious to see which of them get errata'd out of existence.

    Well, it says "An enemy that is immune to fear is immune to this effect." So it's more like, the orc going, "Oh shit, that mage hand is about to tickle me!!!! AHHHHH!!!"

    Less mage hand, more "mage spiked taser gauntlet of doom."

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  • RedDawnRedDawn Registered User regular
    So my friends and I just started playing 4e. There are 6 of us total with me being the DM. We are having a good time, but I don't feel like I'm challenging them enough. I don't want them to feel like they are always struggling, but even in boss fights they don't have to worry that much. They players are level 2 right now.

    For example, the Rogue/Thief can bloody if not kill most anything on his first hit with combat advantage. I'm not sure if we are adding everything up wrong, or if they are supposed to do that much damage. We are using the online character builder for creation so they are updated with the latest rules.

    So when he flanks he is getting 1d6 plus 2d8 plus 5 against people. (He took the backstabber talent.)

    If he back stabs he gets 2d6 plus 2d8 plus 5.

    Does that add up or is that too much damage?

  • dresdenphiledresdenphile Watch out for snakes!Registered User regular
    Just an FYI, if people are interested, I'm recruiting for a 4e PbP.

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  • NealnealNealneal Registered User regular
    Lets say he has 18 Dex since I don't know.

    On a hit Sneak Attack/Backstab with a Short Sword-

    1d6 (Short Sword)+4 (Dex)+2 (Weapon Finesse)+2d8 (Sneak Attack)+1d6 (Backstab).

    So in total (2d6+ 2d8+ 6) would be his once per encounter Backstab damage.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic I've Done Worse Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    RedDawn wrote: »
    So my friends and I just started playing 4e. There are 6 of us total with me being the DM. We are having a good time, but I don't feel like I'm challenging them enough. I don't want them to feel like they are always struggling, but even in boss fights they don't have to worry that much. They players are level 2 right now.

    For example, the Rogue/Thief can bloody if not kill most anything on his first hit with combat advantage. I'm not sure if we are adding everything up wrong, or if they are supposed to do that much damage. We are using the online character builder for creation so they are updated with the latest rules.

    So when he flanks he is getting 1d6 plus 2d8 plus 5 against people. (He took the backstabber talent.)

    If he back stabs he gets 2d6 plus 2d8 plus 5.

    Does that add up or is that too much damage?

    It's his thing. Damage is all a striker offers so they'd better be noticeably better at it then other people. That level damage is on the high end of striker starting but it is not out of line.

    Do remember that encounters need to take into account the number of players. I think the standard is still 4? Really not sure of that though.

    Edit: I suppose the natural counter to a striker always shining is the minion but I wouldn't advise really trying to "counter" players without lots more reason.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
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  • RedDawnRedDawn Registered User regular
    Thanks for the reply, so we are adding it up correctly.

    I need to figure out a way to challenge them a bit more. I'll look for more npcs that can shift the players around and knock them prone.

  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    That striker is all about damage frontloading, so you want to counter usually by map control. Something that makes it difficult for them to spend all their action budget on blendering your mans.

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  • RedDawnRedDawn Registered User regular
    I just want to clarify that I'm not trying to torture my players or single anyone one out in particular. If they can walk through all of the encounters without any worries, what is the point of playing? I want them to have fun, but still have to pay attention to what they are doing.

  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    What kind of monsters are you using? This may be an issue of encounter design.

    With 1d6+2d8+5 damage coming regularly that's an average of ~17 damage a hit, with max damage of 27. A level 2 soldier with 10 CON (low CON here) has an hp total of 34. He shouldn't be killing anything in one hit, barring critical hits with a good magic weapon and including party buffs to damage. He should, now and again with good rolls, be bloodying such enemies particularly if he uses his encounter but he shouldn't be outright killing things unless you're using unusually weak enemies.

  • AbbalahAbbalah Registered User regular
    RedDawn wrote: »
    I just want to clarify that I'm not trying to torture my players or single anyone one out in particular. If they can walk through all of the encounters without any worries, what is the point of playing? I want them to have fun, but still have to pay attention to what they are doing.

    As DevoutlyApathetic mentioned, make sure you're budgeting your encounters for 5 players instead of the default assumption of 4.

    Usually include either at least one controller or a couple of skirmishers in an encounter to get some tactical flexibility for Team Monster.

    Don't go out of your way to shut down the striker unless it's at the point where the other players don't feel like they're contributing - if your party is becoming Rockstar Thief and His Backup Dancers then you've got some options for that (use some Brutes to limit his ability to 1 or 2 shot the monsters, look into monsters with Immediate Interrupts that trigger when an enemy moves into a flanking position (Copper Dragons have a really nice alternate power in one of the Draconomicons that you can use as a template, although if you're not putting it on a solo you'll want to make it an encounter power), etc. There's a power some demons get that death frenzies them -the first time they would die, they instead go to 1 hp, gain an AP, and gain DR 15 until the start of their turn. Occasional monsters with powers like that go a long way towards stopping the "I hit you one time, for a billion damage" striker builds from dominating.)

    If, however, the problem is more that the PARTY is doing extremely well, and the thief's damage is just one aspect of that, then don't go out of your way to limit the thief player - you'd be better served by just upping the encounter levels a notch or two.

  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    Yea, use Brutes for more HP soak and damage or just start using +1 levelled monsters more often for the increase in HP and defenses compared to the party. Throw in a few terrain features and/or controllers or the odd minion wave to fish out OAs if the party wants to rush the main enemies to one-shot and you should be able to construct encounters which cause the party to think tactically about where they're going and where to use resources.

  • RedDawnRedDawn Registered User regular
    I guess it is more they whole party is doing well. I brought up the thief to make sure we were doing his damage correctly.

    I believe I have the encounters scaled correctly, but I will double check. I think some of the problem is me to be quite honest. I need to figure out how to control the NPC's better. I know that I have missed damage and special affects that would have helped break some of their combat advantage.

    I appreciate the tips, thanks for the feedback.

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