[DnD+GW 4E Discussion] Distinctly lacks anything to Jenga

Grog

Another thing to note is that grab does not equal immobilise, since the most useful thing about immobilisation is that it can completely lock down enemy melee attacks. With grab it just forces them to attack you (which is why brawling fighters work so well).

Maybe if it was a reach grab or something (so it'd immobilise but they'd have a chance to escape) it would work.

Denada

Well, compare it to something like Grappling Strike, a fighter At-Will. That one targets AC, does 1[W]+Mod damage, no size restriction, the grab ends automatically at the end of your next turn, and if you have the Brawler style, you can use it for an OA.

So for yours:
-Get rid of the size restriction.
-Add primary mod damage to the attack. Less damage is a trade-off for targeting Reflex instead of AC.
-Get rid of the sustain minor line. You need to limit the duration of the grab, and no other At-Will attack in the game has a sustain minor line. Although in practice it would almost never happen, in theory you could grapple an enemy until the end of the encounter, making the resulting Restrained condition and static bonus damage pretty powerful.

As a "defining feature" it's a little underwhelming, unless you do all sorts of interesting things with other attacks to targets that are grabbed. Otherwise, I could use Tyrant Grasp, hopefully hit, do a little bit of damage, then hopefully do a little bit more on my next attack if the target hasn't broken free by then. I would probably just want to use something else for those two turns and do full damage + effects twice.

Thematically it's cool, but mechanically I'm not sold.

Incenjucar

The main thing with grab is that it's sustain minor, so you can keep someone immobilized or hamper their action economy while laying into them with attacks, especially in conjunction with flanking. That said, it's primarily a controller, so this is something of an "off-tank" feature for when you run out of minions to pop with ranged attacks or you need to buy someone time to get the tank back up.

Trying to get this, pretty much: http://images.wikia.com/dragonball/images/0/00/PiccoloEyeLasers.Ep.144.DB.png

Denada

If that's the case, I would make it an encounter or daily and up the power level accordingly. I didn't realize until now that you were just incorporating the basic Grab rules into the power. If you want to basically be "Standard Action Grab plus extra effects" then I would definitely go for an encounter or daily.

Something that might be interesting and goes with the "lock this monster down while the defender stands back up" is to make it a grab, but instead of additional damage on subsequent attacks, give it damage plus a push or slide when the grab ends. It lets you lock down for a round, then send the target back to the proper defender once he's been healed. Definitely would want limited use on that one though.

soxbox

Denada wrote: »

Although in practice it would almost never happen, in theory you could grapple an enemy until the end of the encounter, making the resulting Restrained condition and static bonus damage pretty powerful.

I take it that's just a brain-fart, but grabbed immobilizes, it doesn't restrain.

Incenjucar

I was actually actively trying to see if I could make an at-will thing. The Encounter build-defining action thing is done to death for controllers as it is. But I'll give it some thought, given the feedback. Much appreciated, all of you.

Incenjucar

So. What if it was a free action Encounter power that triggered on a hit with a melee attack, auto-hit, granted a damageless grab against any size creature, auto-ended at the end of your next turn, and granted the damage bonus while grabbed? Torog's Binding Chains seems semi-comparable.

Also, in addition, the build can use their primary stat to grab and gain their enhancement bonus to grab attempts, in case they wanted to focus on grappling tricks (Vicious Advantage + World Serpent's Grasp :winky: ).

Dracomicron

I am gearing up for my Gamma World adventure. So far I have three players, two have rolled their characters, a Temporal Doppelganger and a Pyrokinetic Speedster.

We determined that the Temporal Doppleganger is a time traveller named Dr. Why. He has a doctorate... in journalism! His doppleganged clones are brought from other times and he calls them Dr. How, Dr. What, Dr. Where, and Dr. When. He doesn't have a Dr. Who for some reason.

Haven't determined the backstory on the Pyrokinetic Speedster yet... but looking at the powers, he appears to be a combination of The Flash and The Human Torch.

This game is awesome.

Lord Palington

Welcome, brother.

dresdenphile

It looks like WOTC will be providing an upper-heroic tier 4E adventure, Dead in the Eye, for Free RPG Day 2012 on June 16th.

I checked the FRPG Day website, but the listing of vendors providing demos seems much smaller than last year. Anyone know of any other demos that are going to be run besides those listed?

Tofystedeth

Yeah, there was only one store offering it in a 100 mile radius of me apparently. On the other hand, that one is actually less than 1 mile from me and is a place we go often. My wife plays encounters there most Wednesdays. So can you bring your own character to this thing? Or are you supposed to make them there or what? The page doesn't say anything at all about it other than what the module is.

Tofystedeth

So for Free RPG day, my wife wanted a wizard. A pyromaniac she said. So I made her one.

Spoiler:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Myrna, level 8
Eladrin, Wizard (Arcanist)
Arcane Implement Mastery Option: Wand of Accuracy
Theme: Cormyrian Battle Mage
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 9, CON 12, DEX 18, INT 20, WIS 14, CHA 10
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 9, CON 12, DEX 15, INT 16, WIS 13, CHA 10
 
 
AC: 21 Fort: 17 Ref: 21 Will: 21
HP: 50 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 12
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +16, History +18, Nature +11, Perception +11, Religion +16
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Athletics +3, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +5, Heal +6, Insight +6, Intimidate +4, Stealth +8, Streetwise +4, Thievery +8
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Cormyrian Battle Mage Utility: Defensive Casting
Eladrin Racial Power: Fey Step
Wand of Accuracy  Power: Wand of Accuracy
Wizard Utility: Light
Wizard Utility: Mage Hand
Wizard Utility: Prestidigitation
Wizard Utility: Chameleon's Mask
Wizard Attack 1: Flaming Sphere
Wizard Attack 1: Erupting Flare
Wizard Attack 1: Scorching Burst
Wizard Attack 1: Burning Hands
Wizard Attack 1: Fountain of Flame
Cormyrian Battle Mage Utility 2: Irregular Dispersal
Wizard Utility 2: Shield
Wizard Attack 3: Fire Shroud
Wizard Attack 5: Fire Mantle
Wizard Attack 5: Fireball
Cormyrian Battle Mage Utility 6: Attuned Wards
Wizard Utility 6: Fire Shield
Wizard Attack 7: Lightning Bolt
 
FEATS
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Burn Everything
Level 2: Coordinated Explosion
Level 4: Eladrin Sword Wizardry
Level 6: War Wizard's Expertise
Level 8: Implement Expertise (Heavy Blade)
 
ITEMS
Spellbook
Tenser's Floating Disk
Silence
Hold Portal
Speak with Nature
Dark Light
Infectious Flame Longsword +2 x1
Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing)
Adventurer's Kit
Wand Implement
Veteran's Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +2 x1
Brooch of Unerring Defense +2 x1
====== End ======

I was thinking for mine, a test dummy research assistant bodyguard, who basically just rounds bunches of dudes up so she can blast them down. I've never really played a defender before. What's a good one for doing that? I was thinking maybe Genasi Swordmage, since they'd get the benefit from the Int, and would have extra fire resist.

Also, I assume the +1 damage from using a longsword in 2 hands does not apply when used as an implement?

Tofystedeth

Huh, so the character builder normally only shows weapons you're proficient with in the marketplace when you have show suggested items checked. But it was showing me superior ones when I was looking at stuff for my swordmage. For a minute I thought I'd be able to get a bastard sword without the feat.

SkyCaptain

Tofystedeth wrote: »

So for Free RPG day, my wife wanted a wizard. A pyromaniac she said. So I made her one.

Spoiler:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Myrna, level 8
Eladrin, Wizard (Arcanist)
Arcane Implement Mastery Option: Wand of Accuracy
Theme: Cormyrian Battle Mage
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 9, CON 12, DEX 18, INT 20, WIS 14, CHA 10
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 9, CON 12, DEX 15, INT 16, WIS 13, CHA 10
 
 
AC: 21 Fort: 17 Ref: 21 Will: 21
HP: 50 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 12
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +16, History +18, Nature +11, Perception +11, Religion +16
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Athletics +3, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +5, Heal +6, Insight +6, Intimidate +4, Stealth +8, Streetwise +4, Thievery +8
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Cormyrian Battle Mage Utility: Defensive Casting
Eladrin Racial Power: Fey Step
Wand of Accuracy  Power: Wand of Accuracy
Wizard Utility: Light
Wizard Utility: Mage Hand
Wizard Utility: Prestidigitation
Wizard Utility: Chameleon's Mask
Wizard Attack 1: Flaming Sphere
Wizard Attack 1: Erupting Flare
Wizard Attack 1: Scorching Burst
Wizard Attack 1: Burning Hands
Wizard Attack 1: Fountain of Flame
Cormyrian Battle Mage Utility 2: Irregular Dispersal
Wizard Utility 2: Shield
Wizard Attack 3: Fire Shroud
Wizard Attack 5: Fire Mantle
Wizard Attack 5: Fireball
Cormyrian Battle Mage Utility 6: Attuned Wards
Wizard Utility 6: Fire Shield
Wizard Attack 7: Lightning Bolt
 
FEATS
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Burn Everything
Level 2: Coordinated Explosion
Level 4: Eladrin Sword Wizardry
Level 6: War Wizard's Expertise
Level 8: Implement Expertise (Heavy Blade)
 
ITEMS
Spellbook
Tenser's Floating Disk
Silence
Hold Portal
Speak with Nature
Dark Light
Infectious Flame Longsword +2 x1
Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing)
Adventurer's Kit
Wand Implement
Veteran's Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +2 x1
Brooch of Unerring Defense +2 x1
====== End ======

I was thinking for mine, a test dummy research assistant bodyguard, who basically just rounds bunches of dudes up so she can blast them down. I've never really played a defender before. What's a good one for doing that? I was thinking maybe Genasi Swordmage, since they'd get the benefit from the Int, and would have extra fire resist.

Also, I assume the +1 damage from using a longsword in 2 hands does not apply when used as an implement?

Warden is a good defender for rounding up monsters. Thorn Strike or something... it pulls the target two squares.

Tofystedeth

Huh.... I gave her the Burn Everything feat which at heroic tier ignores 5 fire resistance. Does that mean it would ignore 5 friendly fire res as well?

Lord Palington

Yep. But she's got War Wizard expertise and I think Cormyr battle mage also tries hard not to hit friends in combat. There's also a background (Arkanul, I think) that gives you +2 to all fire, lightning, and cold resistances, so your guy would have a 7 fire resist, -5 from Burn Everything, so at least you'd have 2.

Tofystedeth

Oh, well, I took the Manifest Resistance feat which gives +5 to whatever resist you get from your manifestation. There's another feat that gives +2 as well. It ended up not being an issue really. She had 2 non-fire attacks (lightning) that she got pretty good use out of, and we managed to get the dudes grouped up in a way she was putting bursts and stuff on the other side of them. It worked out okay. We had some crummy rolls on our side, but people managed to not die. I also took the daily that gives an enemy 5 vuln x and grants everyone with 5 of me 5 resist X. The intent was to use it for fire, but the dude's psychic aura was being a real pain so I used it for that. All the melee strikers were wimping out because of the aura and leaving me up front for the first several rounds so combat took a while.

If equipment has resist on it does it stack with inherent resists? or just take the highest?

Incenjucar

Tofystedeth wrote: »

Oh, well, I took the Manifest Resistance feat which gives +5 to whatever resist you get from your manifestation. There's another feat that gives +2 as well. It ended up not being an issue really. She had 2 non-fire attacks (lightning) that she got pretty good use out of, and we managed to get the dudes grouped up in a way she was putting bursts and stuff on the other side of them. It worked out okay. We had some crummy rolls on our side, but people managed to not die. I also took the daily that gives an enemy 5 vuln x and grants everyone with 5 of me 5 resist X. The intent was to use it for fire, but the dude's psychic aura was being a real pain so I used it for that. All the melee strikers were wimping out because of the aura and leaving me up front for the first several rounds so combat took a while.

If equipment has resist on it does it stack with inherent resists? or just take the highest?

Resist normally doesn't stack, but there are a number of exceptions. Usually when a Paragon Path or Epic Destiny assumes you already have resist.

Weedkiller

Does anyone know of some good sites that give pointers/tips/guides/etc on creating encounters? I'm going to start putting some together soon and I don't have any experience beyond reading that the battlefield itself should be somewhat interesting and don't put in monsters that will take forever to kill.

SkyCaptain

If you just want faster combat, cut monster HP in half and give the monsters a slight damage bonus. I don't agree with simply doubling their damage output as some have suggested. As for the encounters themselves, it is mostly how well the monsters work together and with the terrain. A gnoll spellcaster that can create damaging zones on the ground and another gnoll that pushes or slides with their attacks would make for an interesting encounter. It's just synergy mostly.

Grog

This blog of holding post gives a great system for faster combat. There's a little math to do, but it's definitely outweighed by it's effect.

Nullzone

Tofystedeth wrote: »

Huh, so the character builder normally only shows weapons you're proficient with in the marketplace when you have show suggested items checked. But it was showing me superior ones when I was looking at stuff for my swordmage. For a minute I thought I'd be able to get a bastard sword without the feat.

Swordmage has had this bug since day f-ing one, it bugs the crap out of me that they haven't fixed it yet



As to speeding up combat, 13th Age (the new thing that Rob Heinsoo and Jonathan Tweet are working on) has a remarkably elegant solution for this: the "Escalation Die"

The die starts at 0 and goes up 1 at the end of every round. The value on this die is a global bonus to die rolls for the PCs only.

13th Age gets fancier with it by including monster/battlefield mechanics that use or manipulate the die, but at it's very basic level that seems like a great way to accelerate the fight towards conclusion.

GrimmyTOA

With the escalation die solution, how much do you have to boost the encounter difficulty to ensure a challenge? It seems like you'd just run into a situation where you'd have encounters taking a long time anyway, because you have to add extra monsters to make up for the pcs damage output jumping up.

Mikey CTS

If I understand the mechanic correctly, it also works for the monsters. So as the PC's damage goes up and they gain access to new powers, so do the monsters. Or something... this is just based on what I read. I haven't seen any playtest material for this game.

Weedkiller

I'm only creating the encounters. I'm not making the world or the adventure and I'm not running the encounters (which should be interesting, since I am playing them). As little experience as I have making encounters, I still know more about the workings of 4E than the person taking up the DM mantle, though he has much more experience running games all the way back to Empire of the Petal Throne.

I guess it would also be useful if I could find some program that will help me with creating monster stat blocks. I don't know if WotC has some online tool, but that's moot as I don't have a sub. All I really need is some template that I can fill in.

Nullzone

Weedkiller wrote: »

I'm only creating the encounters. I'm not making the world or the adventure and I'm not running the encounters (which should be interesting, since I am playing them). As little experience as I have making encounters, I still know more about the workings of 4E than the person taking up the DM mantle, though he has much more experience running games all the way back to Empire of the Petal Throne.

I guess it would also be useful if I could find some program that will help me with creating monster stat blocks. I don't know if WotC has some online tool, but that's moot as I don't have a sub. All I really need is some template that I can fill in.

http://www.power2ool.com

Denada

The whole point of the escalation die is to speed up combat, so compensating for it to slow it back down kind of defeats the purpose. From what I understand, 13th Age monsters have effects and powers that trigger off of the size of the escalation die to ensure that a level of challenge is maintained.

This would be pretty easy to work into 4E monsters. Powers could automatically recharge when the escalation die hits a certain size, or damage output could go up, aura sizes could change, or auras could activate or deactivate, stuff like that. The possibilities are pretty wide open.

tastydonuts

Denada wrote: »

The whole point of the escalation die is to speed up combat, so compensating for it to slow it back down kind of defeats the purpose. From what I understand, 13th Age monsters have effects and powers that trigger off of the size of the escalation die to ensure that a level of challenge is maintained.

This would be pretty easy to work into 4E monsters. Powers could automatically recharge when the escalation die hits a certain size, or damage output could go up, aura sizes could change, or auras could activate or deactivate, stuff like that. The possibilities are pretty wide open.

I thought about doing something like this before and all projections ended in the demise of the players.

Weedkiller

Nullzone wrote: »

Weedkiller wrote: »

I'm only creating the encounters. I'm not making the world or the adventure and I'm not running the encounters (which should be interesting, since I am playing them). As little experience as I have making encounters, I still know more about the workings of 4E than the person taking up the DM mantle, though he has much more experience running games all the way back to Empire of the Petal Throne.

I guess it would also be useful if I could find some program that will help me with creating monster stat blocks. I don't know if WotC has some online tool, but that's moot as I don't have a sub. All I really need is some template that I can fill in.

http://www.power2ool.com

Thanks! That looks like it may be just what I'm looking for.

Denada

tastydonuts wrote: »

Denada wrote: »

The whole point of the escalation die is to speed up combat, so compensating for it to slow it back down kind of defeats the purpose. From what I understand, 13th Age monsters have effects and powers that trigger off of the size of the escalation die to ensure that a level of challenge is maintained.

This would be pretty easy to work into 4E monsters. Powers could automatically recharge when the escalation die hits a certain size, or damage output could go up, aura sizes could change, or auras could activate or deactivate, stuff like that. The possibilities are pretty wide open.

I thought about doing something like this before and all projections ended in the demise of the players.

Yeah all your triggers should be "at a d8 escalation die the monsters put down their weapons and surrender" or "at d6 the hideous creatures permanently transform into gentle, harmless forest animals."

Anialos

Mikey CTS wrote: »

If I understand the mechanic correctly, it also works for the monsters. So as the PC's damage goes up and they gain access to new powers, so do the monsters. Or something... this is just based on what I read. I haven't seen any playtest material for this game.

I've been playtesting 13th Age and the escalation die doesn't add to your damage. It just makes it easier to hit and perform other skill checks. Also it caps at 6, so it doesn't get to the point where you hit on everything but a 1. Our DM has had no problems making combat challenging with this in place, darn near killed half the party last session.

Mikey CTS

Anialos wrote: »

Mikey CTS wrote: »

If I understand the mechanic correctly, it also works for the monsters. So as the PC's damage goes up and they gain access to new powers, so do the monsters. Or something... this is just based on what I read. I haven't seen any playtest material for this game.

I've been playtesting 13th Age and the escalation die doesn't add to your damage. It just makes it easier to hit and perform other skill checks. Also it caps at 6, so it doesn't get to the point where you hit on everything but a 1. Our DM has had no problems making combat challenging with this in place, darn near killed half the party last session.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm curious to see how the math works as characters advance.

Tofystedeth

Anialos, did you just change avatars or did I only just now notice you are Cat?

Anialos

Tofystedeth wrote: »

Anialos, did you just change avatars or did I only just now notice you are Cat?

My avatar has been a closeup of my cat for awhile. Just changed it temporarily for a Phalla that should be starting soon. Still has a bunch of room!

Tofystedeth

Anialos wrote: »

Tofystedeth wrote: »

Anialos, did you just change avatars or did I only just now notice you are Cat?

My avatar has been a closeup of my cat for awhile. Just changed it temporarily for a Phalla that should be starting soon. Still has a bunch of room!

So, in a sense, it hasn't changed at all! This song is for you, Danny John-Jules.


On topic. You know what is a great power? Bloodbath. I don't mind having it only do 1[W] as a level 5 daily since it can potentially give 19 ongoing. Combine with stuff that gives save penalties and it's gravy.
When I used it I was like "Sooo looks like that will do 7 damage.... plus..."
"What didn't you just use a daily? 7 damage?"
:twisted:

dresdenphile

Arise, thread!

I just got an email "thanking me for my support and enthusiasm for the D&D Virtual Table and VT Beta, but sadly, WOTC just couldn't generate enough support to launch a full tool to the public so it's being euthanized on July 30th. Also, feel free to take screenshots of your crap, but don't even dream of exporting our propriety stuff into third-party tools."

Oh, WOTC, you so crazy!

Infidel

:^:

Tofystedeth

god fucking damnit wotc.

Mikey CTS

How very not surprising.

Weedkiller

I need some help: I wear glasses, which makes it really hard to facepalm. Either I keep them on and it looks awkward, or I take them off first which kind of looks tryhard. Any advice from other glasses-wearers?

Because this announcement makes me want to facepalm so hard.

Edit: Apparently they're letting the company who have been making the VT take over it completely, including hosting, at least according to this post. Why they wouldn't put this in the letter they sent out if this is true, I don't know.