SC2: GO READ THE NEW THREAD!!

MNC Dover

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The Starcraft II discussion thread
(Channel PA on NA)

Mule Dance!


The SC2 thread proudly presents!

1. The Weekly Forum Challenge

(Organizer: MNC Dover)

Spoiler:

-What the hell is the Weekly Forum Challenge (WFC)?

The WFC is a new idea I came up with that will pit one forum member against everyone else in the forum. Basically, you apply to be in the WFC and when your name is called, you take on everyone else in the forum.

-Huh? Why would I want to do that?

Because it's fun, keeps the forum more interactive, and allows you to improve your game by playing a lot of different playstyles.

-OK, who do I play against?

Everyone. It doesn't matter if your Bronze or Master, these games are no ranks barred. Yeah, if you're a Bronze level player you'll probably get splattered, but you will be learning something and have a set of replays from which to study. You could use this opportunity to practice a single build and see how it fares against several other types of builds. Either way, it will be a good learning experience and fun!

-Sounds interesting....what are the rules?

If your name is called, you will take all invites from Sunday to Saturday that week. Opponents can challenge you via forum posts, PM's, or on B.Net. You must try your best to take on every challenge, so be prepared to spend a few hours on b.net during your week.

-I'm only a Bronze leaguer. I'll get squashed so I don't want to enter.

Hold on there a minute, I'm not done yet. Any WFC entrant can request a live-coach regardless of their rank. Yes, any rank. The coach may only give advice during play in ally chat to you and you cannot ask questions. The coach also cannot tell you what the enemy is doing or steer your build to screw over the enemy. Only tips like, watching your supply counts, build more structures, drone up, scout, expo, spend money, etc. The coach can be anyone the WFC wants and can change from game to game. You can talk with your coach before and after games to discuss strats, build orders, and the like.

-Awesome! I think I want to participate. How do I enter?

PM a message to me with "WFC" as the title and the following information:

-Forum name
-B.Net ID with 3 digit code
-Race played (please only use one to reduce headaches)
-Rank
-Do you want a coach?
-Timezone (easy conversions for us lazy Americans please)
-At least three different weeks you want to apply for with your most favorable choice first (example: 03/20-03/26, 03/27- 04/05, and 04/13-04/19)
-Your choice of how you want to play matches, either bo1 or bo3

-Great, I sent out the information and got accepted. Now what?

Now you have to openly accept challenges from the forum. Post the time or times you will make yourself available for matches. Other people can set-up appointments for matches or play however you choose. If you only want to accept appointments great, if not, you can do a first come, first pwned set-up.

-What maps do we play on?

For bo1's, the WFC player gets to choose the map. Sorry folks, that's the advantage of manning up and taking on all comers. For bo3's, the first game is on Shakura's Plateau with the loser choosing the next map from the official Blizzard Ladder pool. Yes this means the maps may change over time. We'll manage.

-What happens when my week is over?

You gather up all your replays, name them "WFC vs (insert enemy name), add them to gamereplays.org (info found in the OP), and then post EVERY SINGLE GAME into a single spoilered post. The thread creator will add your games into the OP and they'll stay there until the next person's turn is over.

-When does all this begin?

How does this Sunday sound? I'm taking applications now!

-I had an emergency mid-week! What do I do?

No biggie, we all understand that real life stuff happens. Let everyone know and I'll do my best to find someone to fill in the spot. No problem at all.

-Anything else?

Glad you asked. I really think this can be fun, especially if we have some of our more charismatic people bring some light-hearted, jaw-jacking to the table. I'd also really like it if some of the lower ranked players step up and give this a go. In reality, it's no different then playing against PA people anyway, but now it will have more of a focus. You can have a target on your back which might change the way you play by adding or removing pressure.

ABOVE ALL, I just want everyone to have fun and play more SC2.

So, who's in?

Our fourteenth WFC player will be MMMig! Here's his info:

Forum name: MMMig
B.Net ID with 3 digit code: MMMig.478
Race played: Zerg
Rank: Diamond
Do you want a coach?: Nope
Timezone: EST
bo3 format

Challenge our player by sending him a PM, post, or b.net message to set up times!

Here are the replays of the WFC prior:

Spoiler:

2. PA showmatch series #2 & #3

(Organizer: Enigma435)

Admiral Adama wrote:

When you step on this deck, you be ready to fight, or you dishonor the reason why we're here. Now remember this: When you fight a man, he's not your friend.

Watch PAers engage in friendly (most of the time) combat for your entertainment!


3. Replay(s) of the day! (6/27)

(Organizer: whoever created this thread)

A random replay of the day donated by our forum-goers. Make sure to upload your replay submissions to submit your replay using gamereplays.org. And be a pal and mark your replay as ROTD material in your post so they're easier to find.

Start here to better craft some stars.

Spoiler:

The SC2 thread goes a million miles per hour and will leave you in the dust if you aren't prepared. All things are open to discussion here from build orders, practice partners, race match-ups, tournament talk, and general bizarre Korean stuff (usually brought to you by the letter S and the number 86). In order to keep up, I highly recommend you check out the following resources:

• General
  • Team Liquid. Team Liquid is the biggest Starcraft related fan site out on the Internet today. They follow everything Starcraft related including the pro scene. Many great articles, forums, and information can be found here. A must bookmark for any Starcraft fan.
  • Wellplayed.org. Starcraft 2 aggregation site from the SCReddit group.
• Talk shows
  • State of the Game podcast. The pillars of the starcraft 2 community --- JP, EGIncontrol, Liquid`Tyler, and Day[9] --- talk (mostly) about current events in the starcraft community every Tuesday.
• Educational
  • Help guides for new players painstakingly created by fellow forum goers. Please read these first before asking questions.
  • The Day[9] Daily Live Stream. Sean "Day9" Plott is an 11 year Starcraft veteran, so he knows his shit. He does a live stream Sunday through Thursday that airs 7pm PST/10pm EST. If you miss a stream, you can watch it, and every other streams he's ever done, in his archives. BOOKMARK HIS SITES! You will not be disappointed.
  • Starcraft II Liquipedia. Team Liquid has created a wikipedia site for everything SC2 related. This will be updated as time goes on and all information found here should be legit as possible.
  • Learn from the Pros with Mr. B Mr. Bitter aka Flabulous gets lessons from pros about how to play Starcraft and streams the whole thing for our learnings. He started with 12 weeks of zerg goodness and is now moving onto terran and protoss.
  • Common timings and when they hit. Exactly what it sounds like.
  • CecilSunkure's guide to improving efficiently at 1v1. A very good read if you find yourself in a rut with your improvement in 1v1 or if you don't know where to begin improving your game.

OK that's all cool, but I want to play with some PA people.

Spoiler:

1) Log into Battle.net and join channel PA (on the NA realm). We all hang out there. Chat, 1v1 lobbies, and team shenanigans are always going on!

2) Sign up for a replay site such as gamereplays.org or drop.sc. This is a site where you can upload your replays. The perfect way to share your replays with the thread and get advice on how to get better. Gamereplays lets you post the cool banner that you frequently see on the internets and drop.sc lets you upload replays without having to create a new account.

3) Register with the PA SC2 1v1 Ranking site. Sign up for this awesome site to see where you stand amongst fellow PA members. Remember, this is important in the nurturing and expanding of your e-peen. Add yourself by clicking on [Manage Characters] on the top right side.

4) Sign up for the PA mumble page. Sign up if you want to chat with fellow PA users during games or watching tournaments. Thanks to Exoplasm for hosting the service and providing the step-by-step process for installing mumble.

JK. I like watching Starcraft instead. Where can I watch some good games?

Spoiler:

Major tournaments. Starcraft is e-sports. Follow these major tournaments and you will not be disappoint.

• The GSL. The premiere korean starcraft 2 league. Where the best go to play. Casted by Tastetosis, the casting archon.
• The TSL. Team Liquid's major tournament where foreigners stomp koreans and everyone attributes it to lag.
• Major League Gaming. North American e-sports powerhouse now features Starcraft 2 (as long as their stream is online). "tahts halo dont worry".
• North American Star League. The upstart league headed by fan-favorites Incontrol and Gretorp. $400k up for grabs in the first season alone.
• IGN Pro League. Everyone's getting into e-sports, even IGN! 16 of the top players from North America duking it out for fabulous prizes.
  

And those are only the major ones! Follow the Team Liquid Tournament Tracker for more competitive goodness.

Streams. Perhaps you prefer something more intimate. Maybe watching starcraft 2 like it's Being John Malkovich? Thanks to the power of the Internet, there are infinity streams available for your voyeuristic pleasure. Here are our favorites.

• General commentary
  • Seguer. Aussie protoss currently casting the Taiwan Clan League.
  • The Wood League Allstars. A bunch of PA people streaming for your enjoyment.
  • The Day[9] Daily Live Stream.
  • HD Starcraft.
  • HuskyStarcraft.
  • TotalBiscuit.
• Terran
  • Liquid`TLO
  • Trump
  • Hashe
  • ROOTDrewbie
  • Liquid`Jinro
• Protoss
  • Lemming
  • Hill (Zombie Monkey)
  • EGIncontrol
  • Grubby
  • Liquid`Tyler
  • Liquid`HuK
• Zerg
  • EGIdra
  • ROOTDestiny
  • MrBitter
  • Spanishiwa
  • Sheth

Want more streams? Check out Teamliquid's live video stream page for more goodness.

undeinPirat

but seriously kiante is restreaming savior! how was this not brought to my attention sooner!

kedinik

10-ish pool is pretty good in ZvP.

Kills blind cheese, kills greed, forces defensive contortions, still transitions fairly well to a macro game.

Jutranjo

kedinik wrote: »

10-ish pool is pretty good in ZvP.

Kills blind cheese, kills greed, forces defensive contortions, still transitions fairly well to a macro game.

How good is it on large 4 player maps where you have yet to find the P? I don't think you'd want to be drone scouting with a 10 pool

Zombie Monkey

Gareth streaming on the wood league now

mastman

Yann wrote: »

Joe K wrote: »

mastman wrote: »

addicted to 10 OL, extractor trick for 11 pool 15 queen 18 hatch in all matchups. ZvZ I throw in extractor at 15 though for banelings or roaches or watevs

I like it because it crushes all cheese and proxy rax/cannons, and you get your queen and second hatch out still super fast with no econ hit

interesting... do you have a replay?

10 OL? That makes no sense. I have been going 11 overpool in all match-ups a lot, but I build the overlord after the extractor trick.

It mines slightly less minerals than a 14pool, but gives you more larva to play with.

But yeah, I love how safe it makes you, and if you skip some early drones you can even punish greedy P's.

You might wanna delay the hatch until 20-21 supply as well.

yes I have lots of replays at home I will try to post later. Sometimes I do delay hatch to 20/21. Its not a big deal

undeinPirat

grabbing from the old thread

His Corkiness wrote: »

I doubt that anyone in this thread has "good enough" macro.

literally the truest thing that is ignored constantly

GarethMagis

A random replay of the play donated by our forum-goers. Make sure to upload your replay submissions to submit your replay using gamereplays.org. And be a pal and mark your replay as ROTD material in your post so they're easier to find.

MNC Dover

GarethMagis wrote: »

A random replay of the play donated by our forum-goers. Make sure to upload your replay submissions to submit your replay using gamereplays.org. And be a pal and mark your replay as ROTD material in your post so they're easier to find.

Fixed that literally as you were typing it. Stream hack!

Spaffy

So when I get 6 pooled, is the guy gonna be droning behind it, or expanding, or what? Kinda confused as to whether I should cut probes when I scout it or try and hold it off while I continue to macro.

stimtokolos

Someone in a stream chat tried to tell me there used to be beers with 100%+ alcohol.
That isn't how percentages work.

stimtokolos

Joe K wrote: »

stimtokolos wrote: »

Well at least for the past few days why he is in bronze.

If only the ladder system wasn't bullshit and maybe replays recorded some data about the players (their MMR / points / whatever) at the time of them being played, that would be cool beans.

Replays do have current league and points embedded in them for both players. sc2gears is your friend. I really just want a transparent ELO system that can be used as a reliable benchmark for your progress, and give you goals to shoot for in an easily measureable way. The crap that I have to do with sc2gears to understand how i'm playing and trending is ridiculous, although, props to the author of sc2gears, because I *can* do these analysis.

Well, the ladder system is constantly giving me "even" matchups with top8 golds, and I'm winning them more than I'm losing. A couple weeks ago I finally crossed the 50% wlr for the season (i keep all my games, and sc2gears makes it trivial to get the stats), and within any reasonable "moving window", I'm playing over 65% right now.

I had an absolutely horrific start to this season, which I'm blaming on tilting for weeks from the results of the "placement match". season 1 ended with me at #1 bronze in my div by over 1200 (meaningless) points. I kindof thought that the placement match, if won, would place me at least it silver. Nope, win Placement, get placed 72 in bronze, and get mentally thrown off the horse for a while.

However, after getting over the bizarreness that is the matchmaking system, I forced myself to sit down and learn the proper macro dance steps, finally. Yes, still needs improvement, so does everyone else's. I should sit down and try to figure out the week that my macro was good enough that i could build just about anything against anyone *at this level* and still win. The game became fun for me again. Maybe the first time I've truly had fun with multiplayer instead of frustration. Well photon-light-cycles is pretty fun, too...

At that point, I started hitting people up here to start looking at the rest of my game. Again, to everyone who's been helping, thank you, its really showing returns for me.

I will say this: once you get "good enough" macro, and it's time to start looking at other portions of your game, you'll wish that you could go back to just working on your macro. turns out that macro'ing is the easy part...

I should probably look more carefully at the replay analysis options in SC2Gears. I didn't find it with a glance.

His Corkiness

undeinPirat wrote: »

grabbing from the old thread

His Corkiness wrote: »

I doubt that anyone in this thread has "good enough" macro.

literally the truest thing that is ignored constantly

Goddamnit, I knew this thread had started but didn't realise Joe's post was in the old one. >_<

Spaffy

stimtokolos wrote: »

Someone in a stream chat tried to tell me there used to be beers with 100%+ alcohol.
That isn't how percentages work.

Sometimes, in booze, it used to be.

Joe K

His Corkiness wrote: »

undeinPirat wrote: »

grabbing from the old thread

His Corkiness wrote: »

I doubt that anyone in this thread has "good enough" macro.

literally the truest thing that is ignored constantly

Goddamnit, I knew this thread had started but didn't realise Joe's post was in the old one. >_<

entire post spoilerd

Spoiler:

stimtokolos wrote: »

Well at least for the past few days why he is in bronze.

If only the ladder system wasn't bullshit and maybe replays recorded some data about the players (their MMR / points / whatever) at the time of them being played, that would be cool beans.

Replays do have current league and points embedded in them for both players. sc2gears is your friend. I really just want a transparent ELO system that can be used as a reliable benchmark for your progress, and give you goals to shoot for in an easily measureable way. The crap that I have to do with sc2gears to understand how i'm playing and trending is ridiculous, although, props to the author of sc2gears, because I *can* do these analysis.

Well, the ladder system is constantly giving me "even" matchups with top8 golds, and I'm winning them more than I'm losing. A couple weeks ago I finally crossed the 50% wlr for the season (i keep all my games, and sc2gears makes it trivial to get the stats), and within any reasonable "moving window", I'm playing over 65% right now.

I had an absolutely horrific start to this season, which I'm blaming on tilting for weeks from the results of the "placement match". season 1 ended with me at #1 bronze in my div by over 1200 (meaningless) points. I kindof thought that the placement match, if won, would place me at least it silver. Nope, win Placement, get placed 72 in bronze, and get mentally thrown off the horse for a while.

However, after getting over the bizarreness that is the matchmaking system, I forced myself to sit down and learn the proper macro dance steps, finally. Yes, still needs improvement, so does everyone else's. I should sit down and try to figure out the week that my macro was good enough that i could build just about anything against anyone *at this level* and still win. The game became fun for me again. Maybe the first time I've truly had fun with multiplayer instead of frustration. Well photon-light-cycles is pretty fun, too...

At that point, I started hitting people up here to start looking at the rest of my game. Again, to everyone who's been helping, thank you, its really showing returns for me.

I will say this: once you get "good enough" macro, and it's time to start looking at other portions of your game, you'll wish that you could go back to just working on your macro. turns out that macro'ing is the easy part...

the "good enough" comment should be taken in the context it was given: everyone's always needs work, and you should always be trying to improve it. your macro can be good enough that it isn't the factor holding you back from improving your game, and concentrating on another part of the game will benefit you much more than exclusive macro-focus would.

Then you'll iron those wrinkles out, and macro will again become your limiting factor, until you've improved it enough that it isn't the bottleneck, and you need to look at another part. rinse and repeat.

MNC Dover

Gareth, don't forget your Chrono boost!

Edit: Also, when you had that big advantage after the fail, you could have taken two expos and made mass gates.

Demerdar

blue dot.

also, i am slowly getting better (and have been facing some downright terrible opponents.. like.. just awful).

Joe K

stimtokolos wrote: »

I should probably look more carefully at the replay analysis options in SC2Gears. I didn't find it with a glance.

The multi-replay analysis is amazing. You can tell what your matchup breakdown %'s have been, which maps, maps per matchup, trend analysis, and much, much more. sc2gears can really hi-lite something that needs work that you wouldn't notice without it.

GarethMagis

Back to streaming in case anyone wants to see me fail as toss, also you should log into either mumble or Jtv so that you can talk to me and tell me why i suck at life XD

http://www.justin.tv/thewoodleagueallstars

PantsB

So Day9, and Tastosis are doing the Live NASL finals.

Spaffy wrote: »

So when I get 6 pooled, is the guy gonna be droning behind it, or expanding, or what? Kinda confused as to whether I should cut probes when I scout it or try and hold it off while I continue to macro.

Almost never. Its almost all or nothing. I've had it faked, and the Z is so behind on economy you could build like 3 cannons before core and still be well ahead.

ed
This is with a 6 pool though. Not just any early pool.

MNC Dover

Watch the game (only 1 minute long), then read the spoiler.

Spoiler:

I think I might have to introduce a new feature, "Fail of the Week". It would be the sister of replay of the day.

His Corkiness

6-2 plus a disconnect-that-would've-been-a-win today.

*phew*, that might be the most games I've ever played in a single day.

jdmichal

I had figured it as (IPA).

Muriden

I have nothing new to add.
Other than this.

Yann

mastman wrote: »

Yann wrote: »

Joe K wrote: »

mastman wrote: »

addicted to 10 OL, extractor trick for 11 pool 15 queen 18 hatch in all matchups. ZvZ I throw in extractor at 15 though for banelings or roaches or watevs

I like it because it crushes all cheese and proxy rax/cannons, and you get your queen and second hatch out still super fast with no econ hit

interesting... do you have a replay?

10 OL? That makes no sense. I have been going 11 overpool in all match-ups a lot, but I build the overlord after the extractor trick.

It mines slightly less minerals than a 14pool, but gives you more larva to play with.

But yeah, I love how safe it makes you, and if you skip some early drones you can even punish greedy P's.

You might wanna delay the hatch until 20-21 supply as well.

yes I have lots of replays at home I will try to post later. Sometimes I do delay hatch to 20/21. Its not a big deal

Coolio. An 11 overlord is probably always better though, so you might wanna try that!

Joe K

His Corkiness wrote: »

6-2 plus a disconnect-that-would've-been-a-win today.

*phew*, that might be the most games I've ever played in a single day.

lightweight.

His Corkiness

I know. It's more of a motivational exhaustion than anything else.

MikeMan

so apparently the NASL does not want me to watch this idra vs zenio game

ads every minute, on the minute

interrupting the action, making it impossible to watch the game

what the fuck is going on

is this a warp prism glitch?

Joe K

His Corkiness wrote: »

I know. It's more of a motivational exhaustion than anything else.

I know what you mean. There are days where I can crank out 20 ladders in a row, without moving or taking a break, and then there are days where i stare at the big orange button and just can't get myself to press it again.

TannerMS

My 14th game today, it was cheesy as fuck

Keamien

I had a guy fail a proxy gateway rush, then still beat me in the macro game.

It was so sad.

Then later I had someone kill a PF with 5 DTs. Not, kill the missile turrets. No. He killed the fucking PF.

Demerdar

I got canon rushed as Terran the other day.

How the fuck do I counter that? I guess I should just wall off in TvP too.

Joe K

Demerdar wrote: »

I got canon rushed as Terran the other day.

How the fuck do I counter that? I guess I should just wall off in TvP too.

scout your base with an SCV.

I'm also pretty sure that there isn't much of a downside to walling off in PvT, although that won't necesarily stop a canon rush, as he could slip probe #7 in before you finish the wall.

tuxkamen

I had a really amusing game this morning on Metal where a quick hellion drop took me down to 5 probes.

I still won. \o/ The other guy went one-base 2-port raven/banshee.

Heartlash

Wrote a little thingy about Destiny and how cool mass bro-festors are: http://gosu.com/2011/06/how-destiny-is-breaking-the-meta-game/

MadCaddy

I wall off against Toss standardly, and I usually do a 2x joint depot wall, instead of the 1/rax/1 wall... You need to be careful about getting it stalker sniped, but it really isn't as big a dilema as it used to be right after launch (depots seem to take a few more hits than they used to..)

Cannon rush, just do 12 rax, and if you see a pylon, or scout a forge, make a 2nd before OC, and start pumping marines while getting gas to make a factory with siege.. I'll usually use an off rax to make the tech lab if they get multiple cannons online before my factory is done, and my marine count is high.. Also, bunker!

I saw some raging over the ELO and league system, and I know the feeling.. I got rapid demoted when I started playing again to Silver, and have played over 60 games since with an 80% w/l ratio, and haven't been bumped up.. Gonna try to make top seed in my division today, so maybe I can get the bump in gold that way..

If anyone is in need of a terran practice partner, or to practice against certain builds, PM me on b.net, or here, and I'll be able to help for most of today.. Gonna try and figure out why my flash isn't working now...

Joe K wrote: »

Demerdar wrote: »

I got canon rushed as Terran the other day.

How the fuck do I counter that? I guess I should just wall off in TvP too.

scout your base with an SCV.

I'm also pretty sure that there isn't much of a downside to walling off in PvT, although that won't necesarily stop a canon rush, as he could slip probe #7 in before you finish the wall.

Frozenzen

So I come home to do some laddering and streaming... And justin.tv is down.

Terrible.

Zombie Monkey

:[ gareth was actually streaming all the way through it

Heartlash

Yeah, apparently the NASL was right in the middle of it's Europe stream, too.

It looks like someone exposed a huge vulnerability in JTV's login recovery system and they have to address it right away.

badger2d

TB has apparently been stressing over SC2 too much lately

http://youtu.be/fDzQRiEQSJo

edit: I have no idea how to imbed a link properly.

MNC Dover

I played two odd games today.

First game was a TvR (Terran). My opponent goes x2 Reaper, transitions to Ghost, expo, transitions to BC. WTF?

Second game was a TvT. I went the usual opening (12 rax, gas, 15 oc) and I scouted him going 2 Rax FE. My scout couldn't get in from the wall, so I kept him out in his natural. Once my first Tank popped, I took my army and contained him. Two to three tanks later, his natural was under assault. Took more bases and eventually starved him to death while dealing with his drops.

So, for the second game, was that the right mindset? Press my tech advantage to punish his greedy style or would that have been rolled over by his superior Marine count had he saw what I was doing?