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Concern over step-daughter's new friend (Am I overreacting?)
Romantic Undead
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Hey guys,
So our 17 year old Step-Daughter has announced that she has a new boyfriend. Normally this isn't news, however, thanks to the magic of Facebook, a few facts about this new boyfriend has come to light that have started to worry her mom and I. To whit:
First, it should be noted that this person is a biological female who identifies as a male. Before some of you start yelling bigotry, this is NOT the major issue. Our daughter is discovering her own sexuality and is embarking into this relationship knowing that she has our support. I only bring it up as background.
The REAL concern is as follows:
My sister, who is a big social networker, out of curiosity, checked out this person's profile on Facebook. On his profile, she noticed two things:
1) he seems to vacillate between identfying as male or female interchangeably, expressing crushes on both men and women. This would indicate to me that this person is more than just a biological female expressing their desire to identify as male, but far more confused about their sexuality than that. Am I wrong to think this might mean a bigger issue there, or am I just expressing my ignorance in understand the way a transgendered mind works? Opinions from one of PA's transgendered would be greatly appreciated here.
2) he has a fascination with the Columbine Killers (with pictures of them sporting tags "I love you Dylan, you're so dreamy")
We brought up our concerns with our daughter, and she reacted with predictable outrage, accusing us of violating her and her friend's privacy, etc.
I asked her her feelings on the Columbine guys, and she insists that she understands that what they did was wrong and that she doesn't feel her friend's fascination with them is anything more than superficial.
I tried to reassure her that we love her and are only concerned for her safety.
This person is coming over this weekend, and I thinking about addressing these issues with him directly, but I am concerned about crossing a line.
What is your opinion, H/A? Am I right to be worried? Should I step in here or let things play out? If you do think I should step in, advice on how to proceed delicately would be appreciated.
So our 17 year old Step-Daughter has announced that she has a new boyfriend. Normally this isn't news, however, thanks to the magic of Facebook, a few facts about this new boyfriend has come to light that have started to worry her mom and I. To whit:
First, it should be noted that this person is a biological female who identifies as a male. Before some of you start yelling bigotry, this is NOT the major issue. Our daughter is discovering her own sexuality and is embarking into this relationship knowing that she has our support. I only bring it up as background.
The REAL concern is as follows:
My sister, who is a big social networker, out of curiosity, checked out this person's profile on Facebook. On his profile, she noticed two things:
1) he seems to vacillate between identfying as male or female interchangeably, expressing crushes on both men and women. This would indicate to me that this person is more than just a biological female expressing their desire to identify as male, but far more confused about their sexuality than that. Am I wrong to think this might mean a bigger issue there, or am I just expressing my ignorance in understand the way a transgendered mind works? Opinions from one of PA's transgendered would be greatly appreciated here.
2) he has a fascination with the Columbine Killers (with pictures of them sporting tags "I love you Dylan, you're so dreamy")
We brought up our concerns with our daughter, and she reacted with predictable outrage, accusing us of violating her and her friend's privacy, etc.
I asked her her feelings on the Columbine guys, and she insists that she understands that what they did was wrong and that she doesn't feel her friend's fascination with them is anything more than superficial.
I tried to reassure her that we love her and are only concerned for her safety.
This person is coming over this weekend, and I thinking about addressing these issues with him directly, but I am concerned about crossing a line.
What is your opinion, H/A? Am I right to be worried? Should I step in here or let things play out? If you do think I should step in, advice on how to proceed delicately would be appreciated.
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ninja edit: I erased some of my original post and am more alert so read the rest of the original post. Yeah, Columbine stuff is weird and transgendered school kids is weird.
But was "advice from the transgendered PA community" a joke? Is there such a community? Joke or not, I enjoyed it.
So yeah, yeah...your daughter...step-daughter/whatever...well, she's probably a bit...delicate issue but do you think that your family is perhaps a bit...non-traditional?
2) It's a highschool thing, probably. I had friends who were obsessed with serial killers too. That is a fair thing to ask your daughter about and be concerned about, though.
There is a significant transgendered community on these boards.
Addressing the OP: Man, teenagers, right? :P
The Columbine thing is odd, but for us older folk, we have to remember that it actually happened a long time ago and doesn't mean the same thing to the next generation. If this guy is the same age as your daughter, they were only 5 when it happened, whereas I was in high school. It was a serious issue back then and not something I would ever joke about or make light of. However, we make jokes and make light of Hitler all the time, but a lot of older people who lived through that horrible time probably don't. To them, it carries a different weight, just like Columbine does for us.
I would not bring this up to him in person when you meet. That would be crossing a line, I think, and it would likely embarrass your daughter a lot. Make sure to keep the lines of communication open with your daughter though, and that you are always there for her if she needs help/information (though it sounds like you are already doing this, good on you).
Normally I'd agree with you, except for the fact that he doesn't solely identify as male, he changes his self-identity all over the place.
My concern stems from the fact that, as a person struggling with their sexual identity, it's possible he's been subjected to a certain level of cruelty from his peers. That being the case, he may look to the Columbine killers as role models and perhaps has a deep-seated desire to emulate them.
If that's the case, then my step-daughter, and those around her, could be in very real danger.
Edit to Killgrimage: Thanks, I won't worry about the sexual identity stuff too much. I am shamefully underinformed when it comes to understanding the internal struggle of those who are uncertain about their sexuality.
These previous sentiments where people say "born a girl, bisexual, obsessed with Columbine...what's wrong with that?". Maybe I'm grossly out of touch. But to me...that all sounds like a big deal. If I had a daughter dating a transgendered bisexual girl/boy obsessed with school shootings, I'd be alarmed. Maybe I'm just not as hip and "tolerant" as the previous posters.
But your post is weird in other ways as well. You really sat her down and asked about her boy/girlfriend and views on Columbine? And then reassured her that you loved her?
That's like some lost Leave it Beaver episode where Wally starts dressing as a girl, banging Eddie and talking about how much the bullies make him really angry so he started to bring guns to school. Then Ward sits Wally down for a serious heart to heart talk and it all ends in hugs and fatherly roughhousing (e.g. punching his arm and noogies).
So what's up with you? Something. The whole situation is crazy. You really have to go to a forum to ask if this is crazy or not? You don't immediately recognise it as crazy? That in itself is crazy. This whole thing is totally mental and I don't apologise for this.
Sitting down and talking with your child about a concern is not "crazy" in the least. Nor is a teenager exploring their sexuality. There's nothing "crazy" about this situation at all. In fact, it's pretty damn mundane.
OP, wait and meet the boyfriend before you pass any more judgement or talk to anyone about the situation. You can't really get a clear view of someone via their Facebook. If after meeting the boyfriend, you're not comfortable with them dating, then tell her that and tell her to end it. You're the parent, that's your job and your call. She'll be 18 soon enough.
Also keep in mind that LearnedHand is certifiably crazy. I'm going to go ahead and side with Esh on this one: if what people posted on the Internet was the best way to find out who they were, I'd probably have gone Columbine a long time ago too. One of my friends often posts jokes about Hitler/the Holocaust on Facebook, and if that were my only contact with him, I'd have him pegged as a member of the Aryan Brotherhood or something, but if my daughter actually brought him home one day, I'd find out that he's an observant Orthodox Jew who is on his way to med school or something and then I'd probably start dropping hints about marriage.
That being said, most of this sounds like it falls under "kids will be kids." A lot of kids go through phases like this when they're young, being obsessed with serial killers or whatever. And a lot of teenagers struggle with sexuality and gender identity when they're young. I don't think it's worth embarrassing the poor guy, who is probably nervous enough as it is.
The Colombine thing is a bit more worrying. Part of me thinks that this might be a general teenage latching onto what is perceived to be shockingly rebellious or misanthropic imagery, the way that a lot of teenagers obsess over black metal. It could be more than that. From the sounds of things, your daughter is at least aware that this is something that worries you.
If you're going to meet them anyway, you'll at least get a chance to form some kind of impression first hand.
Agreed.
And you should be able to tell if there really are significant issues when you meet him. Odds are he will just be a (particularly) awkward teenager who really wants you to accept him.
To the OP. It sounds like you have a very mature and open relationship with your daughter - which is awesome. I would take a bit of a wait and see approach to the weekend. I don't think you should go in with a plan to interrogate this guy. Just try to get a feel for him and take it from there.
Take some time, try and keep an open mind, and get a feel for the person he is when he shows up. The face to face meeting is going to tell you more than any judgments you might make based on a facebook page. It's certainly a good thing to be aware of things that might be potential issues, but I wouldn't leap to any conclusions without more evidence.
Also, now is maybe the time to have the "Nothing on the internet is private/it never gets deleted" talk with your step-daughter. That she considers a Facebook page to be private without having it incredibly locked down is very naive, and should maybe be looked to.
Also, being bisexual and transgendered is not strange. Gender and sexuality are different things and completely separate, and they are in no way related to mental health. You should be talking to your step-daughter instead about her sexuality, and re-assuring you that you love her no matter what gender her partner is. That seems like it would be the most important thing, not what the boyfriend identifies as
Unless your step daughter's boyfriend is CLEARLY weird and creepy when you meet him I wouldn't really worry. And if he is weird and creepy I wouldn't tell him that. Talk to your step daughter and your wife about it instead. If/when you voice concerns about it, your daughter is going to outraged and totally mad. Its really hard to see what your parents problems are sometimes (even if the concerns are totally legit)
EDIT: learnedhand is totally nuts, its not really fair to judge someone before you've even met them
anyone who has issued with transgendered community can go fuck themselves. my pro bono practice 50% working with tg asylum seekers. they're people just like anybody else.
A lot of people are very gender and sexuality fluid, and even though they may be masculine identified they can still use both male and female pronouns. If you're worried, ask him or your daughter what pronouns he prefers. Really, it doesn't ever hurt to ask someone what pronouns they prefer you use. But overall, that is not odd, and it is not an issue that is worth raising concern over. And gender and sexuality are still separate and both are incredibly fluid.
As for the worries of he might flip out because of bullying? I think that's something you could say about prettymuch any kid in highschool of any sexual and gender identity. Get a feel for him when you meet him but it's not really worth bringing up without prompting. Prettymuch what Flowerhoney and SatanIsMyMotor and Thanatos said. Just try to be accepting. And communication with your daughter and wife are so important.
You have actually been really awesome about all of this and gender and sexuality issues are a hard thing to understand, so super bravo to you for asking us! You seem like a great step dad.
And as for breaking them up if you get bad vibes- just remember that if you do try that, those damn kids tend to try even harder to stick together.
I understand why you're feeling worried, but I think you should just let this play out. It sounds like you have a great relationship with your daughter; all you need to do is make sure the lines of communication stay open. Just encourage her to talk to you about how things are going in the relationship, and if you want to learn more about the boyfriend, just keep inviting him over so you get to know him better.
Secondly, the fascination for the Columbine guys isn't great, but it's not really as uncommon as you might think. Outsiders especially identify with them to some extent, and it's not really hard to see why. High school is fucking brutal, even without being a transgendered youth. It's not necessarily indicative of anything sinister.
You have every right to be concerned, naturally, but I would judge this person on their face to face interactions and not on a dredging up of their facebook page. That is not very indicative of who they are. And if you trust your step-daughter and value her opinions, this person probably has something of value for her to be interested. That may not be the case, but you won't really know until you've met them.
A couple tidbits from the internet does not an entire person make.
The Columbine thing? Yea, different generation and just reeks of general teenage anti-society nonsense. Harmless on the surface, as are most weird teenage things. Get to know the guy!
You didn't really violate this kid's privacy...if he's putting all of this shit on Facebook. I'm not saying that so you can have a "gotcha" against your step-daughter, but it's a really good opportunity to point out the consequences of being so connected with Facebook.
Make it clear that even if this kid takes this stuff down tomorrow, it's out there. Likewise, her association with him is out there. I'm not saying that the FBI's going to kick down his door for being a transgender, killer-sympathizer. But to think that for the next X years, or the rest of her life, that sort of shit will be out there on the internet. And while she might not mind dating someone so brazen, or be so brazen herself online, a lot can change in a few years and it's something most adults don't have the foresight to consider (nevermind teenagers).
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Human beings very rarely think "in the grand scheme of things."
12 years is forever for a 17-year-old.
I think the concerns are that gender seems to be something people "just know," so that sort of fluidity might indicate mental instability, and that he'll wake up one day and decide she's a chick or that he's gay now, adding identity shift on top of being "stolen" as risks of breakup.
What are you talking about?
What the hell dude? Gender is a spectrum and there are many, possibly shifting points upon which a person can identify - one's gender identity can absolutely be fluid and that in no way relates to one's mental condition.
I'm not a psychiatrist though and it's pretty impossible for me to judge the situation from my side of the monitor. All you can do is the usual parenting stand by, keep a close eye on the situation but don't be obvious about it.
Thanks!
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The Columbine thing? Well, I think that's a bit of a red flag, but we're all into some weird shit from time to time.
I think the overall point to take away is that this is a very vulnerable period in your relationship with your step-daughter. It sounds like you genuinely care for her safety and welfare which is commendable, but if you go overboard on this you could do serious damage to the relationship later on down the road.
As difficult as it may be, the best thing is for you to be open minded, supportive, and respectful of your daughter's decisions. Let her make her own choices and support them and I think you'll find that your relationship will become even stronger.
I imagine that you could hear any number of stories of people on these boards who were not treated justly by their parents at that age and the kind of damage that it did.
If he treats your stepdaughter well, doesn't try to bring her into any trouble he might make, and doesn't commit crimes on your property, he's instantly better than probably 70% of the people in her age range that she could have brought home.