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[WoW] [Shaman] It's cool, I'll just go out andFROSTSHOCK!!

belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
edited June 2011 in MMO Extravaganza
Shaman!

Thanks to Grobian for actual content.


Elemental
stolen from Elitist Jerks, because I have no idea myself
Spoiler:

Enhancement
Spoiler:
Restoration
Spoiler:











So I dunno what happened to the old thread, but I didn't want to talk about this in the general thread.

So... this guy: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/69139/necromantic-focus/
Necromantic Focus
Heroic
Epic
Binds when picked up
Unique:
Trinket
+433 Intellect
Requires Level 85
Item Level 391
Equip: Grants 48 mastery rating for 10 sec each time you deal periodic spell damage, stacking up to 10 times.
Totally a dps trinket, right? except....
Focused Insight Rank 3

After casting any Shock spell, your next heal's mana cost is reduced by 75% of the cost of the Shock spell, and its healing effectiveness is increased by 30%.

So if you're a FI shaman (maybe with TC, too) This becomes a really good trinket, right? The problem is I can't figure out what it's competing with yet and whatnot.

I'm just laughing at the thought that you could build a spec (With glyphs!) around this one trinket.

belligerent on
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Posts

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I don't really understand why a pve shaman would want focused insight

    even if you decide keeping a flameshock up to proc this trinket is worth it, spending three talent points to make that GCD slightly less of a waste doesn't seem like a great idea.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    if the rapture don't come cousin, then pass the guns
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  • LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I don't really understand why a pve shaman would want focused insight

    even if you decide keeping a flameshock up to proc this trinket is worth it, spending three talent points to make that GCD slightly less of a waste doesn't seem like a great idea.

    Uh, and a bunch of hit so that you don't miss all the time.

    Badass elemental trinket though.

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  • belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    There's a spec for 25-mans where basically you're a shitty dps. you take FI, TC, and EP (so you can't miss). I know that it's incredibly gamey.

    But FI>FS>HR IS good. if you're the aoe raid healer (and some shamans are relegated to this) it's nice. It's a niche market that may have no place in the current tier, but discussion is warranted, I felt.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    You give up an awful lot of efficiency to get a 30% stronger healing rain in that build. I guess there's a couple hard mode fights where maybe it's worth it if 4-5 other healers can pick you up, but I don't think it really makes sense for general raidhealing.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    if the rapture don't come cousin, then pass the guns
    I'll burn'em for the return of my investment funds
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The spec apparently works, so we really don't have to discuss it's merits. Some people like it, some don't. I at least like that it's possible to have different healing specs for the same class. Still, there are real healing trinkets in Firelands and taking a very good caster trinket for a niche healing spec (that won't be used in every fight) doesn't seem like the best idea to me. Of course if you run with only melee in your 25man, then more power to you and grab that trinket.

    other trinkets:
    Eye of Blazing Power
    Heroic
    Binds when picked up
    Unique-Equipped: Eye of Blazing Power (1)
    Trinket
    +433 Intellect
    Requires Level 85
    Item Level 391
    Equip: Your healing spells have a chance to instantly heal the most injured nearby party member for 15810 to 18373.

    Jaws of Defeat
    Heroic
    Binds when picked up
    Unique-Equipped: Jaws of Defeat (1)
    Trinket
    +433 Intellect
    Requires Level 85
    Item Level 391
    Use: Your next 10 spells cast within 20 sec will reduce the cost of your holy and nature spells by 125, stacking up to 10 times. (2 Min Cooldown)

    Fiery Quintessence
    rep reward, so no heroic version
    Binds when picked up
    Unique: Fiery Quintessence (1)
    Trinket
    +383 Spirit
    Requires Level 85
    Item Level 378
    Requires Avengers of Hyjal - Revered
    Use: Increases your Intellect by 1149 for 25 sec. (1 Min Cooldown)

    IBHz8.png1dUCx.png
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The old thread was still alive, btw, but the forum only shows threads with posts in the last 2 weeks by default. We can just use this thread now, the old OP was outdated anyway. Maybe you can edit your first post, belligerent, I made a thing for specs to go off:
    Spoiler:

    IBHz8.png1dUCx.png
  • AriviaArivia Registered User
    edited June 2011
    I like how the name of the proc for Jaws of Defeat is "Snatch Victory." Go Blizzard.

    huntresssig.jpg
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Arivia wrote: »
    I like how the name of the proc for Jaws of Defeat is "Snatch Victory." Go Blizzard.

    ... welp.

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  • belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    All I need are shoulders to complete my 4 piece.

    Damn you blizzard!!

    also, thank you for not making 5 cloaks. Who needs spirit, amirite?

    Fucking thrall.

  • DibbyDibby Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Grobian wrote: »
    The spec apparently works, so we really don't have to discuss it's merits. Some people like it, some don't. I at least like that it's possible to have different healing specs for the same class. Still, there are real healing trinkets in Firelands and taking a very good caster trinket for a niche healing spec (that won't be used in every fight) doesn't seem like the best idea to me. Of course if you run with only melee in your 25man, then more power to you and grab that trinket.

    other trinkets:
    Eye of Blazing Power
    Heroic
    Binds when picked up
    Unique-Equipped: Eye of Blazing Power (1)
    Trinket
    +433 Intellect
    Requires Level 85
    Item Level 391
    Equip: Your healing spells have a chance to instantly heal the most injured nearby party member for 15810 to 18373.

    Jaws of Defeat
    Heroic
    Binds when picked up
    Unique-Equipped: Jaws of Defeat (1)
    Trinket
    +433 Intellect
    Requires Level 85
    Item Level 391
    Use: Your next 10 spells cast within 20 sec will reduce the cost of your holy and nature spells by 125, stacking up to 10 times. (2 Min Cooldown)

    Fiery Quintessence
    rep reward, so no heroic version
    Binds when picked up
    Unique: Fiery Quintessence (1)
    Trinket
    +383 Spirit
    Requires Level 85
    Item Level 378
    Requires Avengers of Hyjal - Revered
    Use: Increases your Intellect by 1149 for 25 sec. (1 Min Cooldown)

    Actually, there's a boss drop in Heroic modes (Crystallized Firestone or something) that can be used to upgrade vendor items and trash drops to heroic quality loot. So Fiery Quintessence could most certainly be an option at that gear level. Though personally I don't particularly like on use trinkets.

  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    MMOC said you can only upgrade Valor point stuff and trash drops. So it wouldn't work for the Fiery Q. But you're right, it's a weird trinket anyway. 1 min CD basically means you have to macro it to something you press regularly.

    IBHz8.png1dUCx.png
  • belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I thought I read that it's 90 seconds now. Not sure. Too much stuff to keep up with right now.

  • DibbyDibby Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Grobian wrote: »
    MMOC said you can only upgrade Valor point stuff and trash drops. So it wouldn't work for the Fiery Q. But you're right, it's a weird trinket anyway. 1 min CD basically means you have to macro it to something you press regularly.

    Yeah, I recall seeing that too.. But the Heroic version of the trinket is in the database... So who knows!

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The upgrade vendor has ranged slot items, as well. I don't think it has the rep stuff though.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    if the rapture don't come cousin, then pass the guns
    I'll burn'em for the return of my investment funds
  • belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    has anyone had any experience with shaman's in firelands yet?

    I'm worried about the nerf to MTT. I know we were buffed in other ways, but I don't have any experience yet.

  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    New Priority List for Enhancement in 4.2 is supposed to be:

    Basic Priority List: Searing totem -> Stormstrike -> Lava Lash -> MW5 Lightning Bolt -> Unleash Elements -> Flame Shock (when Unleash Flame is active) -> Earth Shock -> LB filler with 2-4 MW stacks

    IBHz8.png1dUCx.png
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    So, anyone want to whine about the first kill of Ragnaros heroic that had no Shaman whatsoever? I think it's funny that they had a lone mage, who was probably there to provide Bloodlust. Even that job has been taken from us. ;-)


    In an unrelated topic, this is my new Arena spec for 3s (kitty cleave) http://www.wowhead.com/talent#hZf0MbZMGbGsdfosz:dbsdrc I specced out of FI and into Soothing Rains. I'm still having a hard time deciding between the WS and EL glyph, but it's probably not that important.

    IBHz8.png1dUCx.png
  • SkankPlayaSkankPlaya Registered User regular
    I wonder if Bliz looks at WoL in determining class balance. Looking at the top 10 for Healing in the 7 fights in Firelands you can count on 1 hand the shaman ranking there, and there are just about as many DPS Shaman ranking that high. I don't dps that often so I can't really comment on why we're under preforming there, but as for healing just another glance at the WoL top 10 ranking gives you a pretty good idea of why: Resto Druids! They pretty much nullify our mastery in that fewer targets will be significantly lower in health if they constantly have wild growth on them. Further, the Firelands fights are tuned almost so there's an even split between single target healing and aoe/raid healing. If I have to rely on Healing rain and to a lesser extent Spirit Link Totem to keep my HPS competitive then that's only going to happen half the time. Ragnaros is mostly a single target healing fight with only a few instances of grouping up. You wouldn't really want to cast Healing rain (our best HPS spell) for 80-90% of the fight as you'd only be able to get 2-3 people in it in 25 man and it's too expensive to waste on that. In single target fights, healers with a lot of haste are likely to prevail as they're going to be more effective at getting specific targets to higher health faster. We've only been keeping our haste at 916 ish, so Druids and Holy Priests who have a significant amount of haste are going to be a lot more effective.

  • Dronus86Dronus86 Now with cheese!Registered User regular
    I'm loving playing my Resto/ele shaman, but I feel uninspired by the number of shaman NOT in top 10 DPS, or world firsts. The other day I went through WoL and looked at the top 10 dps for every 10/25 heroic/nonheroic kills in Cataclysm, and there were a grand total of 3 shaman present. And they were all enhancement. Even as resto, it always feels like I have less mana, less HPS, less everything than my HPal and RDruid associates, despite having the lowest overhealing on every pull.

    Anyone else feeling lackluster by comparison, or am I just over-analyzing it?

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  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    There is certainly something up with Shaman dps, but I would not really count myself as an expert on the subject.

    With regards to Elemental, I want to say Blizz really having no idea of what to do with our AoE in this expansion (needing a flame shock up on a target to cause a totem pulse seems clunky at best), is partly to blame.

    With regards to single target dps, it could just be a matter of bumping up Mastery to be more effective (I'm sure I read blue posts saying this is what they would do if Elemental fell behind).

    Enhancement; I've no idea on.

    Resto shaman compared to other healers? Maybe once you start getting the 4 piece set, things start to change? Are both priest healing specs performing well, or is one doing alot worse than the other?

    2193478FpRzm.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    SkankPlaya wrote:
    In single target fights, healers with a lot of haste are likely to prevail as they're going to be more effective at getting specific targets to higher health faster. We've only been keeping our haste at 916 ish, so Druids and Holy Priests who have a significant amount of haste are going to be a lot more effective.
    A couple things, here. That kind of healing really isn't where druids shine. Also, someone having 1k more haste rating seems like kind of a non-issue when a shaman should have 30% hasted GHWs ready to go most the time.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
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  • SkankPlayaSkankPlaya Registered User regular
    forty wrote:
    SkankPlaya wrote:
    In single target fights, healers with a lot of haste are likely to prevail as they're going to be more effective at getting specific targets to higher health faster. We've only been keeping our haste at 916 ish, so Druids and Holy Priests who have a significant amount of haste are going to be a lot more effective.
    A couple things, here. That kind of healing really isn't where druids shine. Also, someone having 1k more haste rating seems like kind of a non-issue when a shaman should have 30% hasted GHWs ready to go most the time.

    I don't overlook Tidal Waves buffed GHWs but you don't get them all of the time and they're only as good as the Big Heal other classes get and they have already stacked the haste for better throughput. GHW is pretty good, don't get me wrong, but in order for it to be great you've first got to have Tidal Waves up, then you've got to buff it with Unleash Elements, then get the GHW off on the tank with your ES while they're at low health. That's a lot of things to have in place that other healers can all but ignore to just pour heals into that same target and move on.

    Keeping 3 stacks of rejuv on a target while filling in with quick nourish/healing touch does pretty well for tank healing and single target healing fights. Especially considering that those single target heals now procs their really really great mastery allowing their buffed wild growth spam (which can account for 30+% of Druid healing) to blanket the raid.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    I'm curious what you think a resto druid does to top up random spike damage targets so quickly. Nourish is only quick if you've got 3 other rejuvs up, and Healing Touch is never quick.

    Edit: Err, you're just talking about tank healing now? Or what? If you're getting sniped on tank healing, then it sounds like your raid has some assignment issues to work out.

    forty on
    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • KainyKainy Registered User regular
    has anyone had any experience with shaman's in firelands yet?

    I'm worried about the nerf to MTT. I know we were buffed in other ways, but I don't have any experience yet.

    Our Resto shaman does fine, and our Elemental shaman (me!) also does fine.

    When I get my 2pc I'll probably move up a rank or 2 in DPS, but honestly all our casters are so close it's hard to be sad that I'm dead last usually. Also I have a 359 main hand, so when I get some Branch of Nordrassil my DPS will go up by quite a bit too. I'm usually last, but not by much.

    As far as how the healing meters look exactly, I couldn't tell you. All I know is that all 3 of our healers are definitely pulling their weight.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Elemental shamans were buffed in a hotfix yesterday(?) apparently, so that's pretty cool. At least it would be if our raid any ele shamans.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • Grape ApeGrape Ape Registered User regular
    forty wrote:
    Elemental shamans were buffed in a hotfix yesterday(?) apparently, so that's pretty cool. At least it would be if our raid any ele shamans.

    Wish the tooltip reflected the hotfix. I mean, I feel mightier, but I want reassurance!

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  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    So, anyone doing Elemental PvP? @Redcoat-13 maybe?

    It looks like my rated BG group is finally taking off (playing once a week) and we seem to have too many healers and not enough caster dps (Blood DK flag carriers are insane against us). And since I have the full Honor set for Enhancement now, I will start collecting Ele gear, there's nothing else to do with the points anyway.

    The problem is that I have never played an Elemental Shaman. My Shaman is even my main, but he was always Enhancement and/or Resto. I'm looking at this spec right now (only PvP and no arena): http://www.wowhead.com/talent#hbGhMRfkdGobhMZ0h:0rcsrq
    Specific questions: Earthquake is good for the flag zergs in Gilneas/Arathi, right? Elemental Warding vs. Reverberation? Totemic Reach vs. Spark of Life? Also glyphs: EM vs. Hex and is Fire Elemental worth it over one of the dps glyphs (LB/FS)?

    IBHz8.png1dUCx.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I would think Reverberation would be a must to let you Wind Shear more often.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    I thought so too, at first, but I armoried some Elemental Shamans (from AJ and some guys I know from ingame) and no-one seems to have it.

    What would you skip for it?

    IBHz8.png1dUCx.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I don't know, but it surprises the shit out of me that high ranked arena shamans don't have it. It's the most overpowered interrupt in the game. Why wouldn't you want to make it even better!?

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    So, I checked the RBG ladder and you're right, people have Reverberation. I probably got a weird sample before. They mostly skip Feedback or Elemental Warding for it.

    IBHz8.png1dUCx.png
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    A notable exception in the information-free thread about PvP was this nugget:
    Based on my recent conversation with GC, he did mention in particular that a Resto shaman tweak needs to be made. In particular, he's prepared to get his nasty claws on Windshear.

    Yeah, I don't see how they would swing a Windshear nerf as only for Resto. And I also don't agree that Wind Shear is the biggest issue with Shaman healers.

    IBHz8.png1dUCx.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Well, Wind Shear is overpowered (not to say that a bunch of other stuff that a lot of classes have isn't), but I don't see why they'd nerf it for Elemental since it's still not great other than in BGs where you can utilize Thundershock cheese nor Enhancement since it's not that good outside of the 30-seconds of dog doom. Why do you think they wouldn't only hit resto's use of it?

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Grobian wrote:
    So, anyone doing Elemental PvP? @Redcoat-13 maybe?

    It looks like my rated BG group is finally taking off (playing once a week) and we seem to have too many healers and not enough caster dps (Blood DK flag carriers are insane against us). And since I have the full Honor set for Enhancement now, I will start collecting Ele gear, there's nothing else to do with the points anyway.

    The problem is that I have never played an Elemental Shaman. My Shaman is even my main, but he was always Enhancement and/or Resto. I'm looking at this spec right now (only PvP and no arena): http://www.wowhead.com/talent#hbGhMRfkdGobhMZ0h:0rcsrq
    Specific questions: Earthquake is good for the flag zergs in Gilneas/Arathi, right? Elemental Warding vs. Reverberation? Totemic Reach vs. Spark of Life? Also glyphs: EM vs. Hex and is Fire Elemental worth it over one of the dps glyphs (LB/FS)?

    I would class myself as a decent elemental shaman (so while it is nice that you ask, there's better people out there). As in, I can interrupt, try my best to help out healers, cc, not tunnel a target that evidently is getting healed.

    Elemental shaman in this patch are certainly better than they were (the unleashed lightning glyph has helped tremendously, although whether a glyph should have such a dramatic effect should probably be questioned). When things start proc'ing, things start taking big hits. It's a question of whether people will let you.

    The problems Elementals have, are the same as all casters really, in that every melee seems to have +1 gap-closers to the number of ways you've got to get some distance (a side product to the arms race with frost mages really), and there's loads of interrupts out there so that when they eventually close the distance, you're in trouble.

    The main "problems" I have, are Ferals and DK's. Ferals for having that interrupt (skull bash) which seems to lock down my spells for ages (made worse by the fact they are doing some big hits on me), and DK's once they get close and activate AMS (which again means you're not able to do much).

    Earthquake; I've not found a pvp use beyond casting it in the entrance of a base in TB, when a zerg is about to hit. The long casting time, dodgy proc, relatively small area and it being linked to your Nature school are just a few problems.


    2193478FpRzm.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited August 2011
    Skull Bash actually interrupts for less time than Kick. It's tied with most the other melee interrupts (Pummel, Mind Freeze, Rebuke). The problem is that 4 seconds is ages in WoW PvP. Especially when there is something else to stop your next cast just waiting in the wings.

    forty on
    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    Thanks for that, redcoat. RBGs are entirely different from any other form of PvP, imo. For one there is basically never a 1vs1 situation so weaknesses against specific classes don't have a big impact.

    If you don't use Earthquake much (understandable), then you probably don't know how it works for interrupting flag caps. I guess it's the same as Consecration, so only the first tick interrupts. But at least the knockdown proc should also interrupt, that could make it usable in the flag zergs.

    IBHz8.png1dUCx.png
  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Grobian wrote:
    Thanks for that, redcoat. RBGs are entirely different from any other form of PvP, imo. For one there is basically never a 1vs1 situation so weaknesses against specific classes don't have a big impact.

    If you don't use Earthquake much (understandable), then you probably don't know how it works for interrupting flag caps. I guess it's the same as Consecration, so only the first tick interrupts. But at least the knockdown proc should also interrupt, that could make it usable in the flag zergs.

    I've generally gotten better results casting a chain lightening, or running in and doing a Thunderstorm, or dropping a magma totem, if I arrive at a flag point and it's in the process of being capped. I've ironically found myself getting the spell off more in the larger BG's truth be told where I can hide myself a bit better.

    I suppose if I had better support, I'd feel more confident in getting the spell off, but BG's seem to be full of melee that cling to you, so the opportunity to get a spell off doesn't really come along for me.

    Anyway, I tend to just spec resto in random BG's, mainly because I look around the room and see there aren't enough Healers.

    It wouldn't surprise me to see at some point something happening to EQ in 4.3 (like I can see the stun part of it being removed).

    2193478FpRzm.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    The first tick of consecration interrupts capping?

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    So I'm told. It's been a long time since I last played a Paladin.

    IBHz8.png1dUCx.png
  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    forty wrote:
    The first tick of consecration interrupts capping?

    When the paladin first casts it, that used to (and to the best of my knowledge still does) interupt a flag being capped. Consequent ticks don't. I've always taken it as granted that any AOE that you don't channel works like this (i.e. any aoes that you leave after casting).

    2193478FpRzm.png
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