Yeah I don't mean it in a bad way, it'd just be more about honesty. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't mind adopting, but if you wanted to have your own kids the natural way (or at least the possibility) then it's definitely something to bring up sooner then later.
I think that's an understandable thing. It's not like i'd toss aside the person like a leper or whatever.
Yeah, that's pefectly ok. Like I said, what I put was the ONLY thing I could take away from that as negative. I assume people would think you wouldn't date a transgendered person simply because they're transgendered.
Would that be a problem?
Depends on who you ask. To me, yeah, that would seem pretty bigoted.
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
Yeah I don't mean it in a bad way, it'd just be more about honesty. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't mind adopting, but if you wanted to have your own kids the natural way (or at least the possibility) then it's definitely something to bring up sooner then later.
I think that's an understandable thing. It's not like i'd toss aside the person like a leper or whatever.
Yeah, that's pefectly ok. Like I said, what I put was the ONLY thing I could take away from that as negative. I assume people would think you wouldn't date a transgendered person simply because they're transgendered.
Would that be a problem?
Depends on who you ask. To me, yeah, that would seem pretty bigoted.
I don't date gay guys. Does that make me a bigot?
EDIT: When it comes to romance, I find it's best to just say "diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks." Nothing you can say will influence who I go out with.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Yeah I don't mean it in a bad way, it'd just be more about honesty. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't mind adopting, but if you wanted to have your own kids the natural way (or at least the possibility) then it's definitely something to bring up sooner then later.
I think that's an understandable thing. It's not like i'd toss aside the person like a leper or whatever.
Yeah, that's pefectly ok. Like I said, what I put was the ONLY thing I could take away from that as negative. I assume people would think you wouldn't date a transgendered person simply because they're transgendered.
Would that be a problem?
Depends on who you ask. To me, yeah, that would seem pretty bigoted.
I think we're painting with some very broad strokes, here.
If someone is absolutely hell-bent on having their own biological children with another person, and they are similarly hell-bent on those children's egress from one of the two parent's vagina, then I suppose it's alright to not be interested in a transgendered person in the context of a monogamous long-term relationship.
But, as I and others have stated, if you're okay with adoption, being childless, or utilizing non-traditional methods of conception, there's no really good reason to be opposed to dating a transgendered person . . . as a practice.
Yeah I don't mean it in a bad way, it'd just be more about honesty. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't mind adopting, but if you wanted to have your own kids the natural way (or at least the possibility) then it's definitely something to bring up sooner then later.
I think that's an understandable thing. It's not like i'd toss aside the person like a leper or whatever.
Yeah, that's pefectly ok. Like I said, what I put was the ONLY thing I could take away from that as negative. I assume people would think you wouldn't date a transgendered person simply because they're transgendered.
Would that be a problem?
Depends on who you ask. To me, yeah, that would seem pretty bigoted.
I think we're painting with some very broad strokes, here.
If someone is absolutely hell-bent on having their own biological children with another person, and they are similarly hell-bent on those children's egress from one of the two parent's vagina, then I suppose it's alright to not be interested in a transgendered person in the context of a monogamous long-term relationship.
But, as I and others have stated, if you're okay with adoption, being childless, or utilizing non-traditional methods of conception, there's no really good reason to be opposed to dating a transgendered person . . . as a practice.
No, you're talking about something completely different. Not dating someone who's transgendered because you want to have your own biological children is very different from not dating someone who's transgendered simply because they're transgendered.
Yeah I don't mean it in a bad way, it'd just be more about honesty. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't mind adopting, but if you wanted to have your own kids the natural way (or at least the possibility) then it's definitely something to bring up sooner then later.
I think that's an understandable thing. It's not like i'd toss aside the person like a leper or whatever.
Yeah, that's pefectly ok. Like I said, what I put was the ONLY thing I could take away from that as negative. I assume people would think you wouldn't date a transgendered person simply because they're transgendered.
Would that be a problem?
Depends on who you ask. To me, yeah, that would seem pretty bigoted.
I don't date gay guys. Does that make me a bigot?
EDIT: When it comes to romance, I find it's best to just say "diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks." Nothing you can say will influence who I go out with.
No, it doesn't. Does that have anything to do with the discussion at hand tho?
And you're wrong, I can say "that guy is gay" and you already admitted you wouldn't go out with him. Which is completely fine to do if you aren't also a gay man. Hell, there's HUNDREDS of reasons to not date someone; eye color, hair length, clothes choice, religion etc etc and they're perfectly valid but to not date someone because they used to be a different gender doesn't really work for me.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Yeah I don't mean it in a bad way, it'd just be more about honesty. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't mind adopting, but if you wanted to have your own kids the natural way (or at least the possibility) then it's definitely something to bring up sooner then later.
I think that's an understandable thing. It's not like i'd toss aside the person like a leper or whatever.
Yeah, that's pefectly ok. Like I said, what I put was the ONLY thing I could take away from that as negative. I assume people would think you wouldn't date a transgendered person simply because they're transgendered.
Would that be a problem?
Depends on who you ask. To me, yeah, that would seem pretty bigoted.
I think we're painting with some very broad strokes, here.
If someone is absolutely hell-bent on having their own biological children with another person, and they are similarly hell-bent on those children's egress from one of the two parent's vagina, then I suppose it's alright to not be interested in a transgendered person in the context of a monogamous long-term relationship.
But, as I and others have stated, if you're okay with adoption, being childless, or utilizing non-traditional methods of conception, there's no really good reason to be opposed to dating a transgendered person . . . as a practice.
No, you're talking about something completely different. Not dating someone who's transgendered because you want to have your own biological children is very different from not dating someone who's transgendered simply because they're transgendered.
Agreed. There's not really a good reason to not be romantically involved with someone based on what their genitals used to look like.
Now, if that person is doing a poor job of passing, that's another thing entirely. At one place where I used to work, we had a TG patient who periodically checked in, and it's was really kind of awkward, because she had had reassignment surgery basically without doing anything else (hormone therapy, breast augmentation, hair removal, facial reconstruction). It made it difficult because she wanted to be addressed as "ma'am" and "miss" the whole time looking and sounding like John Candy from Wagons East.
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
And you're wrong, I can say "that guy is gay" and you already admitted you wouldn't go out with him. Which is completely fine to do if you aren't also a gay man. Hell, there's HUNDREDS of reasons to not date someone; eye color, hair length, clothes choice, religion etc etc and they're perfectly valid but to not date someone because they used to be a different gender doesn't really work for me.
Dating is an incredibly personal, necessarily irrational thing. Saying you wouldn't date someone because of X is not the same as saying you don't think someone should have equal rights because of X.
Dating is an incredibly personal, necessarily irrational thing. Saying you wouldn't date someone because of X is not the same as saying you don't think someone should have equal rights because of X.
Not to mention very biological. If the little general doesn't respond to marching orders, it's going to be a pretty key limitation on your relationship. So while you're staying with them because you're not a bad person, you're also staying with them despite having lost much or all of your attraction to them, and you're still a bad person for it.
Hell, you can even place this on honesty. This person hid something very significant, even defining about themselves from you - it's the whole point of the question posed at the start of this discussion. You can say we all do this, but while this isn't as bad as "I used to be in the klan" or "I used to be a Detroit Lions fan" it's still a pretty big lie. And if we all do this, it's because we know the thing we're hiding has a very high chance of killing a relationship outright. And so we do hide it, and when it's revealed, hopefully when we think the other person will be accepting, it's no longer just that THING, but now it's also a lie. One which fundamentally changes the context of the relationship. It doesn't really matter what that THING is, this is a challenge that kills many, many relationships.
I'd be far more likely to enter a relationship with a transexual than to stay in a relationship with somebody who'd hid the fact from me for an extended period.
Dating is an incredibly personal, necessarily irrational thing. Saying you wouldn't date someone because of X is not the same as saying you don't think someone should have equal rights because of X.
You're dismissing a person from your dating pool because you're not attracted to that type. Magic Pink's standards aren't shared by many; people date for pleasure.
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
edited May 2012
I don't date redheads. I know that's not something they can control, but I don't care; they're the agents of Satan.
In the future we are likely to perfect reassignment surgery so that a trans-person would be indistinguishable from a natural born person of the same sex, maybe even up to the point of being able to biologically mother/father children. Would the people saying they would not date someone who had transitioned maintain that policy ?
In the future we are likely to perfect reassignment surgery so that a trans-person would be indistinguishable from a natural born person of the same sex, maybe even up to the point of being able to biologically mother/father children. Would the people saying they would not date someone who had transitioned maintain that policy ?
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck. If the surgery is as perfect as you say, why would a trans person ever need to reveal the gender they left behind to the persons they're dating? See Nikki Araguz.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
In the future we are likely to perfect reassignment surgery so that a trans-person would be indistinguishable from a natural born person of the same sex, maybe even up to the point of being able to biologically mother/father children. Would the people saying they would not date someone who had transitioned maintain that policy ?
I don't know that we'll ever get to the point where a TG person can produce genetic material of the opposite sex (i.e., eggs or sperm), but it's more likely that a TG woman could gestate and possibly carry a baby to term.
Still, there will one day be a point where the distinction is virtually meaningless.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
So wait, it makes me a bigot to not date transgendered people simply because they are transgendered? Not because I hate transgendered people, or whatever, simply because it's not my attraction point? That makes me a bigot?
So I guess I am a bigot because I won't date blondes either, because I am more attracted to brunettes?
Arguably being trans is a larger, shall we say, component of your being... If you won't date someone because they have dark skin rather than dark hair, then you might find more people calling you a bigot. But, again, as was pointed out, dating is such a personal thing. If you wouldn't hire someone for having dark skin, society has a problem. Whereas you not dating them doesn't really deprive anyone of anything, now does it? You're still a bigot, but it's nothing to lose sleep over, for anyone.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
So basically making any life determination about someone based on physical anything makes you a bigot. Every human ever is just a bigot, because we won't date whoever comes down the pipe. We actually require some attraction, which tends to have some physical component.
AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Man, some people just like feeling high and mighty.
For clarity, you're not a fucking bigot if you're not attracted to transgendered people. Now, if you're chatting up someone and then you find out they're transgendered, that might be a different story.
So basically making any life determination about someone based on physical anything makes you a bigot. Every human ever is just a bigot, because we won't date whoever comes down the pipe. We actually require some attraction, which tends to have some physical component.
So basically making any life determination about someone based on physical anything makes you a bigot. Every human ever is just a bigot, because we won't date whoever comes down the pipe. We actually require some attraction, which tends to have some physical component.
Glad we've cleared that up.
Magic Pink is off his bean but that's not what he said at all.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Or, stop being so hung up on who you want to bang.
As long as its consensual and above the age of consent, have fun.
So basically making any life determination about someone based on physical anything makes you a bigot. Every human ever is just a bigot, because we won't date whoever comes down the pipe. We actually require some attraction, which tends to have some physical component.
So basically making any life determination about someone based on physical anything makes you a bigot. Every human ever is just a bigot, because we won't date whoever comes down the pipe. We actually require some attraction, which tends to have some physical component.
Glad we've cleared that up.
Could you point out the specific physical features that enable you to determine that someone is transgender ? because unless you give everyone you meet a full physical before you allow yourself to judge their attractiveness then in all probability you have found a transperson attractive at some point in your life.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
So wait, it makes me a bigot to not date transgendered people simply because they are transgendered? Not because I hate transgendered people, or whatever, simply because it's not my attraction point? That makes me a bigot?
So I guess I am a bigot because I won't date blondes either, because I am more attracted to brunettes?
Before we go on a wharblegarbl, I think the unstated implication was, "If you found yourself attracted to a transgendered person, is it wrong to not act on your attraction due to their status?"
So basically making any life determination about someone based on physical anything makes you a bigot. Every human ever is just a bigot, because we won't date whoever comes down the pipe. We actually require some attraction, which tends to have some physical component.
Glad we've cleared that up.
I don't see why you'd be so hung up about being a bigot if, as you say, virtually everyone is one... Of course the quality of the, hm, merchandise might be less with trans people, so you could have a quantitative argument about your reasons, but other than that, yeah, it's bigotry. Society simply finds some forms of it more acceptable; preferring blondes over brunettes is a guy thing, not hiring blacks or gays no longer is.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
So basically making any life determination about someone based on physical anything makes you a bigot. Every human ever is just a bigot, because we won't date whoever comes down the pipe. We actually require some attraction, which tends to have some physical component.
Glad we've cleared that up.
I don't see why you'd be so hung up about being a bigot if, as you say, virtually everyone is one... Of course the quality of the, hm, merchandise might be less with trans people, so you could have a quantitative argument about your reasons, but other than that, yeah, it's bigotry. Society simply finds some forms of it more acceptable; preferring blondes over brunettes is a guy thing, not hiring blacks or gays no longer is.
This hilariously cheapens the term "bigot" and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of human sexual attraction.
Here's an example:
Say a guy is out at the bar, he sees a woman and they start chatting. Things go well and they head back somewhere more private. Turns out the woman is trans and still has male genitals.
Now, the guy is not homosexual and has no physical attraction to the human penis.
Is this person a bigot for not pursuing this woman any farther?
AManFromEarth on
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
So basically making any life determination about someone based on physical anything makes you a bigot. Every human ever is just a bigot, because we won't date whoever comes down the pipe. We actually require some attraction, which tends to have some physical component.
Glad we've cleared that up.
Could you point out the specific physical features that enable you to determine that someone is transgender ? because unless you give everyone you meet a full physical before you allow yourself to judge their attractiveness then in all probability you have found a transperson attractive at some point in your life.
I have no doubt that I have. And it doesn't "bother" me that I have. I don't feel creepy about it, or like oh god maybe I might have looked at a transgender and found them attractive.
Here's the deal: I like vagina's. They are kind of my "thing" sexually. If I was dating a transgender who had this mythical perfect surgery, and I couldn't tell? Fine, then who am I to judge this person? But if I am dating a transgender, and I don't find out they have a penis until the act is about to go down, that is going to be off putting to me for two reasons: One, I am not attracted to penises, and two, I am going to feel a bit misled.
I'm not even saying I would break the relationship off, but I think I would be WELL within my rights as a heterosexual male to feel misled and a bit confused. Maybe I'd learn to like penises, I don't know, I've never been in the position...but I think to assume someone is a bigot because they get sexual pleasure out of traditionally female anatomy is just...silly as fuck, and seems to fly in the face of sexual equality.
Say a guy is out at the bar, he sees a woman and they start chatting. Things go well and they head back somewhere more private. Turns out the woman is trans and still has male genitals.
Now, the guy is not homosexual and has no physical attraction to the human penis.
Is this person a bigot for not pursuing this woman any farther?
So this guy in your example is saying, "I don't want to have sex with you. We had some good chemistry in the bar but I'm done talking to you now. Goodbye."
What an asshole.
Your example doesn't sound much different from a couple who met online and fell in love in a chat room. When they meet for their first real date, the guy sees the woman is overweight and walks out the door right there.
Say a guy is out at the bar, he sees a woman and they start chatting. Things go well and they head back somewhere more private. Turns out the woman is trans and still has male genitals.
Now, the guy is not homosexual and has no physical attraction to the human penis.
Is this person a bigot for not pursuing this woman any farther?
So this guy in your example is saying, "I don't want to have sex with you. We had some good chemistry in the bar but I'm done talking to you now. Goodbye."
What an asshole.
Your example doesn't sound much different from a couple who met online and fell in love in a chat room. When they meet for their first real date, the guy sees the woman is overweight and walks out the door right there.
What? I imagine that a normal person wouldn't be a complete dick about it. But why should he pursue someone he is not physically attracted to in a romantic way. There's nothing saying they can't have a platonic relationship.
Physical attraction is a thing, you can't have a good relationship without it.
You're not a bigot for not being attracted to certain shaped genitals. To suggest you are is fucking stupid.
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
Dating is an incredibly personal, necessarily irrational thing. Saying you wouldn't date someone because of X is not the same as saying you don't think someone should have equal rights because of X.
Debating the politics of dating accomplishes nothing.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
and has no physical attraction to the human penis.
This makes it sound like there are other, different kinds of penis he might be attracted to.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Dating is an incredibly personal, necessarily irrational thing. Saying you wouldn't date someone because of X is not the same as saying you don't think someone should have equal rights because of X.
Debating the politics of dating accomplishes nothing.
That's sort of the point I was trying to make. I've been following the thread and wanting to smack some people in here for the high horse bullshit they're shoveling out.
Posts
Depends on who you ask. To me, yeah, that would seem pretty bigoted.
I don't date gay guys. Does that make me a bigot?
EDIT: When it comes to romance, I find it's best to just say "diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks." Nothing you can say will influence who I go out with.
I think we're painting with some very broad strokes, here.
If someone is absolutely hell-bent on having their own biological children with another person, and they are similarly hell-bent on those children's egress from one of the two parent's vagina, then I suppose it's alright to not be interested in a transgendered person in the context of a monogamous long-term relationship.
But, as I and others have stated, if you're okay with adoption, being childless, or utilizing non-traditional methods of conception, there's no really good reason to be opposed to dating a transgendered person . . . as a practice.
No, you're talking about something completely different. Not dating someone who's transgendered because you want to have your own biological children is very different from not dating someone who's transgendered simply because they're transgendered.
No, it doesn't. Does that have anything to do with the discussion at hand tho?
And you're wrong, I can say "that guy is gay" and you already admitted you wouldn't go out with him. Which is completely fine to do if you aren't also a gay man. Hell, there's HUNDREDS of reasons to not date someone; eye color, hair length, clothes choice, religion etc etc and they're perfectly valid but to not date someone because they used to be a different gender doesn't really work for me.
Agreed. There's not really a good reason to not be romantically involved with someone based on what their genitals used to look like.
Now, if that person is doing a poor job of passing, that's another thing entirely. At one place where I used to work, we had a TG patient who periodically checked in, and it's was really kind of awkward, because she had had reassignment surgery basically without doing anything else (hormone therapy, breast augmentation, hair removal, facial reconstruction). It made it difficult because she wanted to be addressed as "ma'am" and "miss" the whole time looking and sounding like John Candy from Wagons East.
To each his own.
Not admitting that "Big Trouble in Little China" is one of the finest examples of filmmaking to date.
Not to mention very biological. If the little general doesn't respond to marching orders, it's going to be a pretty key limitation on your relationship. So while you're staying with them because you're not a bad person, you're also staying with them despite having lost much or all of your attraction to them, and you're still a bad person for it.
Hell, you can even place this on honesty. This person hid something very significant, even defining about themselves from you - it's the whole point of the question posed at the start of this discussion. You can say we all do this, but while this isn't as bad as "I used to be in the klan" or "I used to be a Detroit Lions fan" it's still a pretty big lie. And if we all do this, it's because we know the thing we're hiding has a very high chance of killing a relationship outright. And so we do hide it, and when it's revealed, hopefully when we think the other person will be accepting, it's no longer just that THING, but now it's also a lie. One which fundamentally changes the context of the relationship. It doesn't really matter what that THING is, this is a challenge that kills many, many relationships.
I'd be far more likely to enter a relationship with a transexual than to stay in a relationship with somebody who'd hid the fact from me for an extended period.
You're dismissing a person from your dating pool because you're not attracted to that type. Magic Pink's standards aren't shared by many; people date for pleasure.
What about if they've dyed their hair brown?
Subterfuge! The devil's hands are full of tricks, make no mistake.
Like Obama?
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck. If the surgery is as perfect as you say, why would a trans person ever need to reveal the gender they left behind to the persons they're dating? See Nikki Araguz.
I don't know that we'll ever get to the point where a TG person can produce genetic material of the opposite sex (i.e., eggs or sperm), but it's more likely that a TG woman could gestate and possibly carry a baby to term.
Still, there will one day be a point where the distinction is virtually meaningless.
So I guess I am a bigot because I won't date blondes either, because I am more attracted to brunettes?
Glad we've cleared that up.
For clarity, you're not a fucking bigot if you're not attracted to transgendered people. Now, if you're chatting up someone and then you find out they're transgendered, that might be a different story.
Seriously people, stop being geese.
Also, gays are sexist.
Magic Pink is off his bean but that's not what he said at all.
As long as its consensual and above the age of consent, have fun.
You reminded me of something.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Don't judge me!
Could you point out the specific physical features that enable you to determine that someone is transgender ? because unless you give everyone you meet a full physical before you allow yourself to judge their attractiveness then in all probability you have found a transperson attractive at some point in your life.
Before we go on a wharblegarbl, I think the unstated implication was, "If you found yourself attracted to a transgendered person, is it wrong to not act on your attraction due to their status?"
I don't see why you'd be so hung up about being a bigot if, as you say, virtually everyone is one... Of course the quality of the, hm, merchandise might be less with trans people, so you could have a quantitative argument about your reasons, but other than that, yeah, it's bigotry. Society simply finds some forms of it more acceptable; preferring blondes over brunettes is a guy thing, not hiring blacks or gays no longer is.
This hilariously cheapens the term "bigot" and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of human sexual attraction.
Here's an example:
Say a guy is out at the bar, he sees a woman and they start chatting. Things go well and they head back somewhere more private. Turns out the woman is trans and still has male genitals.
Now, the guy is not homosexual and has no physical attraction to the human penis.
Is this person a bigot for not pursuing this woman any farther?
I have no doubt that I have. And it doesn't "bother" me that I have. I don't feel creepy about it, or like oh god maybe I might have looked at a transgender and found them attractive.
Here's the deal: I like vagina's. They are kind of my "thing" sexually. If I was dating a transgender who had this mythical perfect surgery, and I couldn't tell? Fine, then who am I to judge this person? But if I am dating a transgender, and I don't find out they have a penis until the act is about to go down, that is going to be off putting to me for two reasons: One, I am not attracted to penises, and two, I am going to feel a bit misled.
I'm not even saying I would break the relationship off, but I think I would be WELL within my rights as a heterosexual male to feel misled and a bit confused. Maybe I'd learn to like penises, I don't know, I've never been in the position...but I think to assume someone is a bigot because they get sexual pleasure out of traditionally female anatomy is just...silly as fuck, and seems to fly in the face of sexual equality.
So this guy in your example is saying, "I don't want to have sex with you. We had some good chemistry in the bar but I'm done talking to you now. Goodbye."
What an asshole.
Your example doesn't sound much different from a couple who met online and fell in love in a chat room. When they meet for their first real date, the guy sees the woman is overweight and walks out the door right there.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
What? I imagine that a normal person wouldn't be a complete dick about it. But why should he pursue someone he is not physically attracted to in a romantic way. There's nothing saying they can't have a platonic relationship.
Physical attraction is a thing, you can't have a good relationship without it.
You're not a bigot for not being attracted to certain shaped genitals. To suggest you are is fucking stupid.
Debating the politics of dating accomplishes nothing.
This makes it sound like there are other, different kinds of penis he might be attracted to.
:winky:
Maybe there are. Maybe I like baboon penises. It's the color.
That's sort of the point I was trying to make. I've been following the thread and wanting to smack some people in here for the high horse bullshit they're shoveling out.