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Hi, welcome to [Starcraft 2]; No you'll never be good, you'll just be less bad.

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Posts

  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Darkforce vs RSVP in IPL that finished right now was pretty amazing.

    ZvP with a almost mined out metalopolis, wherein voidray/colossi is soundly destroyed by corruptor/fungal :P.

    Also, amazing nydus play.

    SC2EU/US: Frozenzen.437 Steam: Frozenzen
  • ParadisoParadiso Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    To my Zergbros out there: do you ever feel like you don't actually have a build? Don't get me wrong, I have openings (14/14 speedling expand, 15h-> 2 base muta, etc). But I find they almost always go to hell as soon as I get a glimpse of what my opponent is up to. It decays into a chaotic hodgepodge of making drones and making monsters and smashing them into whatever he has.

    It's only in ZvZ where I actually feel like I have a set build and plan that I follow and don't always turn on its head. I don't operate it on blind faith, but it has an actual structure to it with a vague timing.

    You often hear that Z is the most reactive race, but it sometimes feels like my play gets a little too amorphous. Is this just a fact of life for Zerg? Or have I been doing it way, way wrong?

  • MashimaroMashimaro Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    1st: CONGRATS JOE! :) You've officially made it to the league where, I believe, I saw the absolute most cheese ever. Keep climbing and I want to play you... once I get my new computer.

    2nd: I am finally going to be getting a total back from the warranty people and blah, blah, blah, but it means that I will be back and WAY behind where I should be... On the plus side, I found a multiplayer flash tetris game (on my old computer that can't even run SC2...
    Spoiler:
    ) and I was way too good at it with my 50 apm or so... T.T

    I need my Protoss back.
    Spoiler:

    463084-1.png
  • SaarutoSaaruto Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    PAers in the TL Fantasy GSTL: my team for this week is not in a good spot. Had to trade Fruitdealer for anypro. All protosses except for Nada and Sheth. Anti-team is Check and Maka. Sigh...

    EDIT: Severian, Anzekay, and Dhal, I hope you lose all of those delicious points this week.

    If you can chill, chill.
    Steam ID
  • Zombie MonkeyZombie Monkey Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Paradiso wrote: »
    To my Zergbros out there: do you ever feel like you don't actually have a build? Don't get me wrong, I have openings (14/14 speedling expand, 15h-> 2 base muta, etc). But I find they almost always go to hell as soon as I get a glimpse of what my opponent is up to. It decays into a chaotic hodgepodge of making drones and making monsters and smashing them into whatever he has.

    It's only in ZvZ where I actually feel like I have a set build and plan that I follow and don't always turn on its head. I don't operate it on blind faith, but it has an actual structure to it with a vague timing.

    You often hear that Z is the most reactive race, but it sometimes feels like my play gets a little too amorphous. Is this just a fact of life for Zerg? Or have I been doing it way, way wrong?

    we have some timing attacks but other than that there are no super concrete builds, its all situational reaction most of the time, what is he doing? How do i react? What can i get away with before im forced to react? I.e, how serious is his army? Can i afford lair and mutas or should i stick with....

    But that being said there are ideal solutions to problems, such as how to handle a 2 rax, how to handle hellions that require general timings, but nothing ever concrete.

    League of Legends - Enzo III
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Paradiso wrote: »
    To my Zergbros out there: do you ever feel like you don't actually have a build? Don't get me wrong, I have openings (14/14 speedling expand, 15h-> 2 base muta, etc). But I find they almost always go to hell as soon as I get a glimpse of what my opponent is up to. It decays into a chaotic hodgepodge of making drones and making monsters and smashing them into whatever he has.

    It's only in ZvZ where I actually feel like I have a set build and plan that I follow and don't always turn on its head. I don't operate it on blind faith, but it has an actual structure to it with a vague timing.

    You often hear that Z is the most reactive race, but it sometimes feels like my play gets a little too amorphous. Is this just a fact of life for Zerg? Or have I been doing it way, way wrong?


    I don't really have a "build," per say, other than the initial kick off early game, and even those aren't very well refined.


    This is probably the main reason why I'm not masters though.

    ed: I'm OK with this though, as I highly resist taking this game too seriously, because that's when it stops becoming fun.

    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    TannerMS wrote: »
    Joe K wrote: »
    TannerMS wrote: »
    MMMig wrote: »
    You could have summarized it in street.

    "Fuckers have frenzy, and bitches dun be frontin' on frenzy."

    hahah, it's like you start thinking about it and it gets really complicated! I'm got to explain about roots and mind control and why people have infestors in the first place when Ultras are so good

    i don't think i've seen you ever build an ultra...

    I ultralisk rushed you in your WFC! Before people started researching blink they were pretty good :( and I actually still think they're your best hive tech option in ZvZ

    I... uh... don't remember most of my WFC games. I might have to do another WFC run when my ranking settles.

    But best hive tech? I'll argue with you on that. Broods & cracklings are where its at.

  • TannerMSTannerMS Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Joe K wrote: »

    I... uh... don't remember most of my WFC games. I might have to do another WFC run when my ranking settles.

    But best hive tech? I'll argue with you on that. Broods & cracklings are where its at.

    Ew Cracklings, that's a good way to give your opponent the 50 kills achievement on an infestor I guess.

  • walnutmonwalnutmon Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I used to play Zerg almost exclusively...

    What's a build?

    xbox: jmbizzo | ps3: walnutmon | steam: walnutmon | SC2: walnutmon.591
  • TannerMSTannerMS Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Paradiso wrote: »
    To my Zergbros out there: do you ever feel like you don't actually have a build? Don't get me wrong, I have openings (14/14 speedling expand, 15h-> 2 base muta, etc). But I find they almost always go to hell as soon as I get a glimpse of what my opponent is up to. It decays into a chaotic hodgepodge of making drones and making monsters and smashing them into whatever he has.

    It's only in ZvZ where I actually feel like I have a set build and plan that I follow and don't always turn on its head. I don't operate it on blind faith, but it has an actual structure to it with a vague timing.

    You often hear that Z is the most reactive race, but it sometimes feels like my play gets a little too amorphous. Is this just a fact of life for Zerg? Or have I been doing it way, way wrong?

    Sounds like how I play. My gas timings in ZvT and vP are solidly "when I have enough drones or maybe earlier unless I forget"

  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    TannerMS wrote: »
    Joe K wrote: »

    I... uh... don't remember most of my WFC games. I might have to do another WFC run when my ranking settles.

    But best hive tech? I'll argue with you on that. Broods & cracklings are where its at.

    Ew Cracklings, that's a good way to give your opponent the 50 kills achievement on an infestor I guess.

    broods and cracklings... there's more shit thats attacking than they can possibly kill, and you're constantly reinforcing with more lings. christ, target one BL at your festor pile and watch them pop.

    its the ultimate swarm attack. a never ending supply of 3/3 cracklings with bros adding more to the never ending blob of death.

    and yes, you need to clear out the AOE's out before it works.

  • TannerMSTannerMS Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Joe K wrote: »

    broods and cracklings... there's more shit thats attacking than they can possibly kill, and you're constantly reinforcing with more lings. christ, target one BL at your festor pile and watch them pop.

    its the ultimate swarm attack. a never ending supply of 3/3 cracklings with bros adding more to the never ending blob of death.

    and yes, you need to clear out the AOE's out before it works.

    If you have the power to clear banelings and infestors from the field, you probably should've just gone mass roach hydra and washed over him :)

  • BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I like when Tasteless grabs his boob.

  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    TannerMS wrote: »
    Joe K wrote: »

    broods and cracklings... there's more shit thats attacking than they can possibly kill, and you're constantly reinforcing with more lings. christ, target one BL at your festor pile and watch them pop.

    its the ultimate swarm attack. a never ending supply of 3/3 cracklings with bros adding more to the never ending blob of death.

    and yes, you need to clear out the AOE's out before it works.

    If you have the power to clear banelings and infestors from the field, you probably should've just gone mass roach hydra and washed over him :)

    well, there are other matchups besides ZvZ...

    and - i watched you v dhal where you went hydras - what was that strat?

  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited June 2011
    everyone watch hwangsin

    enjoyable english like cella, but from a #66 GM in Korea! he also apparently took the latest TLOpen?

    cool stuff

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • TannerMSTannerMS Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Joe K wrote: »
    TannerMS wrote: »
    Joe K wrote: »

    broods and cracklings... there's more shit thats attacking than they can possibly kill, and you're constantly reinforcing with more lings. christ, target one BL at your festor pile and watch them pop.

    its the ultimate swarm attack. a never ending supply of 3/3 cracklings with bros adding more to the never ending blob of death.

    and yes, you need to clear out the AOE's out before it works.

    If you have the power to clear banelings and infestors from the field, you probably should've just gone mass roach hydra and washed over him :)

    well, there are other matchups besides ZvZ...

    and - i watched you v dhal where you went hydras - what was that strat?

    If you're thinking of the same game I am, Hydraling with +1 melee armor and range is pretty strong against any 2 base play that isn't a 6 gate.

  • chuckleberryfinnchuckleberryfinn Ireland Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Pf rush game...

    repimg-33-218585.jpg

    No Protoss players were underpowered during this post.
  • ParadisoParadiso Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    It's good to know I'm not the only one that rolls that way with Zerg though it makes me want to nerd out and build a god damn flowchart of responses depending upon what I see.

  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    TannerMS wrote: »
    Joe K wrote: »
    TannerMS wrote: »
    Joe K wrote: »

    broods and cracklings... there's more shit thats attacking than they can possibly kill, and you're constantly reinforcing with more lings. christ, target one BL at your festor pile and watch them pop.

    its the ultimate swarm attack. a never ending supply of 3/3 cracklings with bros adding more to the never ending blob of death.

    and yes, you need to clear out the AOE's out before it works.

    If you have the power to clear banelings and infestors from the field, you probably should've just gone mass roach hydra and washed over him :)

    well, there are other matchups besides ZvZ...

    and - i watched you v dhal where you went hydras - what was that strat?

    If you're thinking of the same game I am, Hydraling with +1 melee armor and range is pretty strong against any 2 base play that isn't a 6 gate.

    (not on my home computer, or i'd check)

    did you use 2 evos to get that out, or manage it on one?

  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Paradiso wrote: »
    It's good to know I'm not the only one that rolls that way with Zerg though it makes me want to nerd out and build a god damn flowchart of responses depending upon what I see.

    it would definitely be lengthier than Terran's....

    Make Marines

  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    ok, so people are confused by my various names

    so if you see any of these

    Huggles
    Zombie Monkey
    ZM
    Hill
    Erik
    Ares
    Cel
    Shoe
    Hat
    Sylem

    Then the likelihood is that it is me!

    Embrace it, love it

    wait.... what?

    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    explaining starcraft from scratch, explaining why you like it and explaining why its so challenging makes you garner an appreciation for just how much stuff you have to keep track of in this game

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Streaming some league made of wood and wood-like products.

    Feel free to basque in the flood of ... lé fromage

    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2011
    Everyone wants to be like me.

    533570-1.png
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    TannerMS wrote: »
    Paradiso wrote: »
    To my Zergbros out there: do you ever feel like you don't actually have a build? Don't get me wrong, I have openings (14/14 speedling expand, 15h-> 2 base muta, etc). But I find they almost always go to hell as soon as I get a glimpse of what my opponent is up to. It decays into a chaotic hodgepodge of making drones and making monsters and smashing them into whatever he has.

    It's only in ZvZ where I actually feel like I have a set build and plan that I follow and don't always turn on its head. I don't operate it on blind faith, but it has an actual structure to it with a vague timing.

    You often hear that Z is the most reactive race, but it sometimes feels like my play gets a little too amorphous. Is this just a fact of life for Zerg? Or have I been doing it way, way wrong?

    Sounds like how I play. My gas timings in ZvT and vP are solidly "when I have enough drones or maybe earlier unless I forget"

    hey thats how i play Z!
    why i not so good as u

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • badger2dbadger2d San FranciscoRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I do not like Blizzard's idea of stealth mechanics. I didn't like it back in the days of Gnomish Submarines in Warcraft 2, and they've never changed the way they work it one bit since then.

    Your marines stand there a-herpin' and a-derpin' while a solitary DT cuts them in two one by one. Not a single marine will ever think that maybe it would be a good idea to shoot in that direction where all those swishing psi-blade noises keep occurring as his buddies spontaneously fall apart. Then your magical detector comes along! And suddenly they can all shoot again.

    This concept of invisibility equalling total invincibility, enemies absolutely unable to fight back in the slightest even when you are standing right next to them, or firing missiles with obvious muzzle flashes, or whatever...it's gimmicky and silly, and it's unfortunate they haven't thought of a single way to improve it in 15 years.

    The whole detectors vs cloakers just feels like a shallow minigame unnecessarily shoehorned into a great strategy game.

    Blizzard: Symphony #1704
    Steam: badger2d
  • SpaffySpaffy Sweet Sassy Molassy! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Need some good VoDs with commentary to watch guys. Help a brother out.

    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
    Steam: adamjnet
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2011
    badger2d wrote: »
    I do not like Blizzard's idea of stealth mechanics. I didn't like it back in the days of Gnomish Submarines in Warcraft 2, and they've never changed the way they work it one bit since then.

    Your marines stand there a-herpin' and a-derpin' while a solitary DT cuts them in two one by one. Not a single marine will ever think that maybe it would be a good idea to shoot in that direction where all those swishing psi-blade noises keep occurring as his buddies spontaneously fall apart. Then your magical detector comes along! And suddenly they can all shoot again.

    This concept of invisibility equalling total invincibility, enemies absolutely unable to fight back in the slightest even when you are standing right next to them, or firing missiles with obvious muzzle flashes, or whatever...it's gimmicky and silly, and it's unfortunate they haven't thought of a single way to improve it in 15 years.

    The whole detectors vs cloakers just feels like a shallow minigame unnecessarily shoehorned into a great strategy game.
    It isn't a gimmick, it is a gameplay element that is incredibly complex and ingrained into this game.

    533570-1.png
  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited June 2011
    it's literally not a big deal, scan

    dt's aren't that bad, especially compared to bw

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • badger2dbadger2d San FranciscoRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    it's literally not a big deal, scan

    dt's aren't that bad, especially compared to bw

    Oh I'm not making any sort of imba argument. I've been beaten by DTs, I've beaten people with DTs, I've beaten people who tried to use DTs. I just don't like it. It feels silly. It feels like a distraction from the "real" game.

    Blizzard: Symphony #1704
    Steam: badger2d
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    badger2d wrote: »
    I do not like Blizzard's idea of stealth mechanics. I didn't like it back in the days of Gnomish Submarines in Warcraft 2, and they've never changed the way they work it one bit since then.

    Your marines stand there a-herpin' and a-derpin' while a solitary DT cuts them in two one by one. Not a single marine will ever think that maybe it would be a good idea to shoot in that direction where all those swishing psi-blade noises keep occurring as his buddies spontaneously fall apart. Then your magical detector comes along! And suddenly they can all shoot again.

    This concept of invisibility equalling total invincibility, enemies absolutely unable to fight back in the slightest even when you are standing right next to them, or firing missiles with obvious muzzle flashes, or whatever...it's gimmicky and silly, and it's unfortunate they haven't thought of a single way to improve it in 15 years.

    The whole detectors vs cloakers just feels like a shallow minigame unnecessarily shoehorned into a great strategy game.

    what is your idea to improve it without making detectors unnecessary

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • chuckleberryfinnchuckleberryfinn Ireland Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    MMMig wrote: »
    Streaming some league made of wood and wood-like products.

    Feel free to basque in the flood of ... lé fromage

    This

    No Protoss players were underpowered during this post.
  • KambingKambing Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Paradiso wrote: »
    To my Zergbros out there: do you ever feel like you don't actually have a build? Don't get me wrong, I have openings (14/14 speedling expand, 15h-> 2 base muta, etc). But I find they almost always go to hell as soon as I get a glimpse of what my opponent is up to. It decays into a chaotic hodgepodge of making drones and making monsters and smashing them into whatever he has.

    It's only in ZvZ where I actually feel like I have a set build and plan that I follow and don't always turn on its head. I don't operate it on blind faith, but it has an actual structure to it with a vague timing.

    You often hear that Z is the most reactive race, but it sometimes feels like my play gets a little too amorphous. Is this just a fact of life for Zerg? Or have I been doing it way, way wrong?

    Don't be fooled into thinking that playing "the reactive race" means that you don't have a plan. You should always have a plan (in particular, a strong mid-game goal in mind). Unlike the other races, it means that you should have several plans in place to deal with what you opponent throws at you.

    @TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
  • badger2dbadger2d San FranciscoRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    badger2d wrote: »
    I do not like Blizzard's idea of stealth mechanics. I didn't like it back in the days of Gnomish Submarines in Warcraft 2, and they've never changed the way they work it one bit since then.

    Your marines stand there a-herpin' and a-derpin' while a solitary DT cuts them in two one by one. Not a single marine will ever think that maybe it would be a good idea to shoot in that direction where all those swishing psi-blade noises keep occurring as his buddies spontaneously fall apart. Then your magical detector comes along! And suddenly they can all shoot again.

    This concept of invisibility equalling total invincibility, enemies absolutely unable to fight back in the slightest even when you are standing right next to them, or firing missiles with obvious muzzle flashes, or whatever...it's gimmicky and silly, and it's unfortunate they haven't thought of a single way to improve it in 15 years.

    The whole detectors vs cloakers just feels like a shallow minigame unnecessarily shoehorned into a great strategy game.

    what is your idea to improve it without making detectors unnecessary

    A grab-bag of ideas:

    1. Cloaked units reveal themselves momentarily whenever they attack. Half a second, or something. I would combine this with removing the wavy distortion you see when cloaked units are moving where you're looking, but you don't have a detector. You can gain a positioning advantage in a fight with the stealth power, but no longer have the "I am invincible unless he has a detector" power.

    2. Cloaked units can be fired at without a detector around, but in that case they take massively reduced damage. (An "accuracy" penalty, so to speak.)

    3. Cloaked units are targetable without a detector present but only manually (i.e. your units will not auto-attack something invisible).

    4. 2+3 would be best in combination I think, 3 is not much on its own. But I wanted to separate them for clarity's sake.

    Blizzard: Symphony #1704
    Steam: badger2d
  • chuckleberryfinnchuckleberryfinn Ireland Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Kambing wrote: »

    Don't be fooled into thinking that playing "the reactive race" means that you don't have a plan. You should always have a plan (in particular, a strong mid-game goal in mind). Unlike the other races, it means that you should have several plans in place to deal with what you opponent throws at you.

    Speed ling/bling, muta(infestor), ultra/brood.
    What am I missing?

    Zerg isn't a religion you know...

    No Protoss players were underpowered during this post.
  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Saaruto wrote: »
    PAers in the TL Fantasy GSTL: my team for this week is not in a good spot. Had to trade Fruitdealer for anypro. All protosses except for Nada and Sheth. Anti-team is Check and Maka. Sigh...

    EDIT: Severian, Anzekay, and Dhal, I hope you lose all of those delicious points this week.
    I probably won't gain many, at least. My team was kinda front-loaded for the first week.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    badger2d wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    badger2d wrote: »
    I do not like Blizzard's idea of stealth mechanics. I didn't like it back in the days of Gnomish Submarines in Warcraft 2, and they've never changed the way they work it one bit since then.

    Your marines stand there a-herpin' and a-derpin' while a solitary DT cuts them in two one by one. Not a single marine will ever think that maybe it would be a good idea to shoot in that direction where all those swishing psi-blade noises keep occurring as his buddies spontaneously fall apart. Then your magical detector comes along! And suddenly they can all shoot again.

    This concept of invisibility equalling total invincibility, enemies absolutely unable to fight back in the slightest even when you are standing right next to them, or firing missiles with obvious muzzle flashes, or whatever...it's gimmicky and silly, and it's unfortunate they haven't thought of a single way to improve it in 15 years.

    The whole detectors vs cloakers just feels like a shallow minigame unnecessarily shoehorned into a great strategy game.

    what is your idea to improve it without making detectors unnecessary

    A grab-bag of ideas:

    1. Cloaked units reveal themselves momentarily whenever they attack. Half a second, or something. I would combine this with removing the wavy distortion you see when cloaked units are moving where you're looking, but you don't have a detector. You can gain a positioning advantage in a fight with the stealth power, but no longer have the "I am invincible unless he has a detector" power.

    2. Cloaked units can be fired at without a detector around, but in that case they take massively reduced damage. (An "accuracy" penalty, so to speak.)

    3. Cloaked units are targetable without a detector present but only manually (i.e. your units will not auto-attack something invisible).

    4. 2+3 would be best in combination I think, 3 is not much on its own. But I wanted to separate them for clarity's sake.

    that pretty much makes detectors unnecessary

    getting the tech for cloaked units is already a huge investment, a much bigger investment than getting detection is for any race

    you SHOULD auto-lose if you know your opponent is teching and don't prepare for detection just in case

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    badger2d wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    badger2d wrote: »
    I do not like Blizzard's idea of stealth mechanics. I didn't like it back in the days of Gnomish Submarines in Warcraft 2, and they've never changed the way they work it one bit since then.

    Your marines stand there a-herpin' and a-derpin' while a solitary DT cuts them in two one by one. Not a single marine will ever think that maybe it would be a good idea to shoot in that direction where all those swishing psi-blade noises keep occurring as his buddies spontaneously fall apart. Then your magical detector comes along! And suddenly they can all shoot again.

    This concept of invisibility equalling total invincibility, enemies absolutely unable to fight back in the slightest even when you are standing right next to them, or firing missiles with obvious muzzle flashes, or whatever...it's gimmicky and silly, and it's unfortunate they haven't thought of a single way to improve it in 15 years.

    The whole detectors vs cloakers just feels like a shallow minigame unnecessarily shoehorned into a great strategy game.

    what is your idea to improve it without making detectors unnecessary

    A grab-bag of ideas:

    1. Cloaked units reveal themselves momentarily whenever they attack. Half a second, or something. I would combine this with removing the wavy distortion you see when cloaked units are moving where you're looking, but you don't have a detector. You can gain a positioning advantage in a fight with the stealth power, but no longer have the "I am invincible unless he has a detector" power.

    2. Cloaked units can be fired at without a detector around, but in that case they take massively reduced damage. (An "accuracy" penalty, so to speak.)

    3. Cloaked units are targetable without a detector present but only manually (i.e. your units will not auto-attack something invisible).

    4. 2+3 would be best in combination I think, 3 is not much on its own. But I wanted to separate them for clarity's sake.

    that pretty much makes detectors unnecessary

    getting the tech for cloaked units is already a huge investment, a much bigger investment than getting detection is for any race

    you SHOULD auto-lose if you know your opponent is teching and don't prepare for detection just in case

    Yeah, I don't see how this is different from losing because you let Zerg double expand and get like 15 mutas and weren't prepared.

    Actually, I think mutas are worse. At least the cloaked units are super easy to kill once you have detection.

    ChaosHat.com - Twitter - Twitch Stream - Steam: ChaosHat - 3DS: 5215-0009-1949
    SC2: ChaosHat.444 ggtracker
  • KambingKambing Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Kambing wrote: »

    Don't be fooled into thinking that playing "the reactive race" means that you don't have a plan. You should always have a plan (in particular, a strong mid-game goal in mind). Unlike the other races, it means that you should have several plans in place to deal with what you opponent throws at you.

    Speed ling/bling, muta(infestor), ultra/brood.
    What am I missing?

    Zerg isn't a religion you know...

    A lot of things. Good play in general requires that you know what your responses to certain situations are and how they influence your goals. Zerg in particular needs these kinds of considerations because they can't control the tempo of the game until the mid-game where their production kicks in.

    Assume that your mid-game goal is ling/bling/muta. A simple question is how you deal with blue flame hellions:

    1) Do you drop a roach warren in response? If so, do you amend you mid-game goal to include roaches or do you stick with ling/bling/muta? Do you instead drop your bling nest earlier in response?
    2) If you see BFHs, how does this affect your spire/bling speed timing? Do you prioritize a fast spire to gain map control? Do you prioritize bling speed to stop an early tank/marine follow-up?
    3) When do you take your third? Do you wait until your spire is up before you go for it? Do you risk dropping the third even without map control if they commit to BFHs?

    And all of this pivots on the amount of BFHs you see, the rest of the tech you scout, and the map, among other things. A good zerg will have responses in place for these sorts of possibilities.

    @TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
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