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Why not do as Morgan Freeman says?

ShanadeusShanadeus Registered User
edited July 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
Morgan Freeman on Racism

From now on I'm never ever going to describe myself as "white", "black", "brown", or as any other stereotypical race descriptor and I hope you'll do the same.

If you never make an effort on an individual level then society as a whole can never act in accordance with the views of Morgan Freeman.
It's kinda like the voter's dilemma, where people find it easy to just give up with the excuse that "my vote is never going to decide anyway", except they have potential societal consequences of negative nature for daring to do this.

What do you think?
Might it perhaps be possible to convince people to think like this man?
Is education and increased living standards the answer?

Discuss!

Shanadeus on
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Posts

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    He can think that way because he has enough of the color that matters - green.

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  • Delta AssaultDelta Assault Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    I already do as Morgan Freeman says. *nods*

  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited July 2011
    Color blindness is not going to solve racism. We're different. That's an inescapable fact.

    The trick is recognizing that those differences don't make us better or worse than anyone else.

    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • ShanadeusShanadeus Registered User
    edited July 2011
    Recognizing that those differences don't make us any better or worse than anyone else might backfire and instead result in people emphasizing those differences as they recognize them and assign positive/negative value to them.

    Next, subtle to non-subtle racism.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Shanadeus wrote: »
    Recognizing that those differences don't make us any better or worse than anyone else might just as easy result in people emphasizing those differences and assign positive/negative value to them.

    ...I'm not seeing how this sentence makes sense. Could you possibly flesh it out or explain it in a way that elucidates your point a bit further?


    Also, May is Jewish History Month, for anyone that was curious.

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  • JurgJurg In a TeacupRegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Colorblindness can be the cause of racism, though. Some things predominately affect certain races and if we pretend those races don't exist we are missing a key variable in investigating solutions.

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  • Boring7Boring7 Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    The GOP has ignored racism for years.

    Strangely, instead of brilliant post-racial perfection we have, well, this.

    Thanatos wrote: »
    Goldman Sachs may as well be named COBRA.
  • agoajagoaj Hey You Pichu I don't like your girlfriendRegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Color blindness is not going to solve racism. We're different. That's an inescapable fact.

    The trick is recognizing that those differences don't make us better or worse than anyone else.

    But if we don't see if we won't have to deal with the differences and everyone can be happy.

    Now it's hard to avoid contact with different people, but if we were to separate people into groups... wait a minute...

    aqOYSK0.gif
  • DeebaserDeebaser Lead Frog Rammer Fake Board GamerRegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    This only sounds deep because Morgan Freeman is saying it.

    Remember, this man also allowed a giant asteroid to wipe out the eastern seaboard during his administration.

    http://i.imgur.com/SVLUjAW.png
    Vanguard wrote: »
    ...poetry is actually the worst
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited July 2011
    And gave control of all reality to Jim Carrey.

    Thank about that for a few minutes.

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    He also served time at Shawshank.
    During his incarceration he was a well known smuggler who routinely brought illicit and possibly dangerous goods in.

    On the other hand, he did his time, so we shouldn't hold that against him.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Its hard to get that whole point he's talking about from a soundbyte I think. It seemed more like he doesn't like the differentiation and possible separation that comes from things such as Black history month. He seems to be saying that its not right to separate out Black History in America to its own special month and ignore it the rest of the time, as it actually causes African Americans to be viewed as different from other Americans. While this may be true, the difference focused on are largely in a negative sense.

    And while their may be a Jewish history Month of a Hispanic History Month, how many people really know about it? Black History month is popular because of racisl tension, and Morgan Freeman seems to think that by integrating Black history into general American history, it actually helps you see better how African Americans have affected history.

    As well getting rid of monikers of "black" and "white" helps get rid of that seperation, and focuses more on the commonalities of growing up in the United States and the shared experiences that may come from that.

    Edit: doing the Morgan Freeman movie naming, wasn't also the same man who died for his country fighting racist southeners?

    (Might explain how he became God....)

    Spoiler:
  • Delta AssaultDelta Assault Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    He also drove Miss Daisy around, so he's obviously just an Uncle Tom.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    see317 wrote: »
    He also served time at Shawshank.
    During his incarceration he was a well known smuggler who routinely brought illicit and possibly dangerous goods in.

    On the other hand, he did his time, so we shouldn't hold that against him.

    Except that to get to shawshank he murdered his wife and unborn child, so not exactly a nice guy.

  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    that only serves to give him more street cred
    his new album drops soon

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
  • HeatwaveHeatwave I heard you, Hot ShotRegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Street cred which allowed him to manipulate the Loom of Fate.

    In regards to the whole getting rid of Black, white, etc, it simple isn't possible. It's a physical trait just like redhair or being really tall. You can't not notice it. And trying to just makes conversations awkward.

    "S is awesome you should go talk to S."
    "Which one's S?"
    "Oh, y'know, the one with the, uh, pale complexion"
    "Huh?"

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  • override367override367 misogynist/MRA/socially irresponsible Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    I agree with him on the point that we should reinforce, especially in history education, that what is thought of as black history is in fact "American history"

    Then again we need ground up reforms in how American history is taught. I remember learning about how great Andrew Jackson was.

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  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Didn't Andrew Jackson beat a fellow politician with a cane?

    'Cause if he's the one who did that I'm not seeing the problem here, override

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  • AgahnimAgahnim Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    So far as I know I'm getting busy livin'

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  • override367override367 misogynist/MRA/socially irresponsible Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Didn't Andrew Jackson beat a fellow politician with a cane?

    'Cause if he's the one who did that I'm not seeing the problem here, override

    Well he was also the closest thing to Hitler we've ever had in America

    Honestly, he's the only president that godwins realistically apply to

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Andrew Jackson basically pissed in the Supreme Court's Coke and dared them to do something about it.

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  • SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Heatwave wrote: »
    Street cred which allowed him to manipulate the Loom of Fate.

    In regards to the whole getting rid of Black, white, etc, it simple isn't possible. It's a physical trait just like redhair or being really tall. You can't not notice it. And trying to just makes conversations awkward.

    "S is awesome you should go talk to S."
    "Which one's S?"
    "Oh, y'know, the one with the, uh, pale complexion"
    "Huh?"
    Skin colour is a great way to visually distinguish two people you don't already know. Just like height, hair colour, or what shirt they're wearing. So yes, Morgan Freeman's a black man when you're trying to distinguish him from someone else in a crowd and you don't know who Morgan Freeman is.

    The question then is, outside that sort of situation, why is Morgan Freeman a black man? Why should it be part of his identity?

  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    I just remember being taught about how Andrew Jackson was awesome becuase he would regularly challenge people to duels and get in knife fights all time. Busted a wall down in the white house so they could roll in a giant cheese wheel (for him and his buddies party that weekend). He invited the public to his inaugural party, which got so rowdy they put the booze on the lawn to lure people outside. He's the kind of leader you read about in orks from warhammer 40k. Won wars through insanity, then got to judge what was sane. Summarily took that shit to the top afterwards.

    We were basically taught he was a giant redneck, who threatened anyone with violence that said something he didnt like, who loved to party.

    To keep this on topic, he was super racist, even for the time. He's very responsible for pushing indians out of their land.

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  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2011
    Preacher wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    He also served time at Shawshank.
    During his incarceration he was a well known smuggler who routinely brought illicit and possibly dangerous goods in.

    On the other hand, he did his time, so we shouldn't hold that against him.

    Except that to get to shawshank he murdered his wife and unborn child, so not exactly a nice guy.

    I think the lives of two people is worth the god-damn-Batmobile.

  • JeedanJeedan Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Because prejudice is partially unconcious and largely culturally ingrained and you cant stop yourself doing it without recognising that you're doing it.

  • JebusUDJebusUD Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    It's kind of hard to have rascism without a concept of race. That said, I think it is a little late to put this cat back in the bag.

    How does a culture unconcept something?

    You haven't given me a reason to steer clear of you!
  • JeedanJeedan Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Ok everybody, theres no such thing race anymore now, everyone just talk, dress, and act "normal". Everybody choose their religion, oppertunities and socioeconomic class for themselves like a "normal" person.

  • taoist drunktaoist drunk Registered User
    edited July 2011
    Whether Morgan Freeman is behind it or not, adopting an attitude of color-blindness is a bad move. I think there's merit to the argument that there shouldn't be a Black History Month because black history is American history, and confining the conversation about racism in America and black history to February keeps it out of context, out of sight, and out of mind. But color-blindness erases both the history of structural racism in America and the way that structural racism affected and continues to affect black people. De facto segregation, while declining, still exists residentially (another link), in churches, and commercially. Suggesting that "blackness" and "whiteness" are outdated concepts ignores these structural issues.

    Color consciousness (as opposed to color blindness) effectively puts the blame on people who have been historically oppressed and is closely related to a "bootstraps" mentality. If whiteness and blackness don't exist, then why are black people so poor (of course there are exceptions, but on the whole black family and individual wealth is far less than that of white families and individuals)? Is it that they don't work hard enough? All of a sudden, you're falling back into the old racist stereotypes while trying to get rid of racism through the color blindness technique.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Suggesting that "blackness" and "whiteness" are outdated concepts ignores these structural issues.

    To be fair, I don't think that's actually what Freeman said.

    He said that people should be known primarily by their unique identifiers, and not first by their most primarily identifiable racial type. I don't think he was saying "nobody should ever say x is black or y is white", but that you shouldn't be using that as an identifier.

    I think.

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  • taoist drunktaoist drunk Registered User
    edited July 2011
    Suggesting that "blackness" and "whiteness" are outdated concepts ignores these structural issues.

    To be fair, I don't think that's actually what Freeman said.

    He said that people should be known primarily by their unique identifiers, and not first by their most primarily identifiable racial type. I don't think he was saying "nobody should ever say x is black or y is white", but that you shouldn't be using that as an identifier.

    I think.

    I think you're right, I should have been clear that I was referring to the OP exhorting everyone to stop using the words "white" "black" and "brown" to describe themselves ever. While I identify primarily as taoistdrunk, I will continue to acknowledge that my whiteness shapes my life experience in conversations where it's relevant.

  • ShanadeusShanadeus Registered User
    edited July 2011
    Whether Morgan Freeman is behind it or not, adopting an attitude of color-blindness is a bad move. I think there's merit to the argument that there shouldn't be a Black History Month because black history is American history, and confining the conversation about racism in America and black history to February keeps it out of context, out of sight, and out of mind. But color-blindness erases both the history of structural racism in America and the way that structural racism affected and continues to affect black people. De facto segregation, while declining, still exists residentially (another link), in churches, and commercially. Suggesting that "blackness" and "whiteness" are outdated concepts ignores these structural issues.

    Color consciousness (as opposed to color blindness) effectively puts the blame on people who have been historically oppressed and is closely related to a "bootstraps" mentality. If whiteness and blackness don't exist, then why are black people so poor (of course there are exceptions, but on the whole black family and individual wealth is far less than that of white families and individuals)? Is it that they don't work hard enough? All of a sudden, you're falling back into the old racist stereotypes while trying to get rid of racism through the color blindness technique.
    I guess I don't really propose colour blindness then, but more like a form of colour irrelevance instead of colour consciousness.

    The black family that is poor is poor because they are poor - and should be helped from their poorness by directly helping them and fighting the conditions that made them poor in the first place.
    If those conditions are other people looking at the black family with colour consciousness that take shape in the form of racism then sure, acknowledge that other people's view of this particular family as black is the problem - that it's racism that's at fault.

    Guess that's kinda what surrealitycheck said.

    So yeah, I still won't call you black person or white person when speaking of, or to, you but I will recognize that you are particular appearance might cause other to treat you in an unjust manner.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Andrew Jackson basically pissed in the Supreme Court's Coke and dared them to do something about it.

    He also beat the crap out of a would-be assassin, after both the killer's guns misfired. Aides had to pull Jackson off the dude.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    JebusUD wrote: »
    It's kind of hard to have rascism without a concept of race. That said, I think it is a little late to put this cat back in the bag.

    How does a culture unconcept something?

    How do you not have a concept of race?

    No matter how much you wanna pretend, Morgan Freeman's skin is still an extremely noticeably different colour then mine.

    Race, or really just differences between groups, is a concept you cannot eliminate. What you have to do is teach people how to handle it.

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    shryke wrote: »
    How do you not have a concept of race?

    No matter how much you wanna pretend, Morgan Freeman's skin is still an extremely noticeably different colour then mine.

    Race, or really just differences between groups, is a concept you cannot eliminate. What you have to do is teach people how to handle it.
    Thing is, though, the concept of race is so reductive it becomes ridiculous. Yes, Morgan Freeman's skin is darker than yours - but I recently watched Monster's Ball, and in effect Billy Bob Thornton's skin isn't much lighter than Halle Berry's, yet the latter is deemed 'black'. Race is at least as much about cultural pigeon holes as it is about biological facts, and the problem is that the two are rarely distinguished from one another in discussion.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Unfortunately, we're never going to be able to forget race until these folks do: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14018798

    Not to mention tribalistic garbage which is race-by-surname.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Color blindness is not going to solve racism. We're different. That's an inescapable fact.

    The trick is recognizing that those differences don't make us better or worse than anyone else.

    Racism isnt caused just because we are different. I'm white but im different from every other white guy out there.

    Its racism because you point to the skin color as an excuse to dislike someone.

    I put it to you, is it possible in todays Politically correct world for a white man to hate a black man for a reason other then racism? What if that black man was rich and the white man was poor, and the black man forclosed on his house? What if the black man was just an asshole to the white man?

    I'm completely against racism. However the simple truth is that too many people believe playing the race card is the ONLY response that explains negative actions.

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  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Suggesting that "blackness" and "whiteness" are outdated concepts ignores these structural issues.

    To be fair, I don't think that's actually what Freeman said.

    He said that people should be known primarily by their unique identifiers, and not first by their most primarily identifiable racial type. I don't think he was saying "nobody should ever say x is black or y is white", but that you shouldn't be using that as an identifier.

    I think.

    Morgan freeman is my favorite voiced actor.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    azith28 wrote: »
    Color blindness is not going to solve racism. We're different. That's an inescapable fact.

    The trick is recognizing that those differences don't make us better or worse than anyone else.

    Racism isnt caused just because we are different. I'm white but im different from every other white guy out there.

    Its racism because you point to the skin color as an excuse to dislike someone.

    I put it to you, is it possible in todays Politically correct world for a white man to hate a black man for a reason other then racism? What if that black man was rich and the white man was poor, and the black man forclosed on his house? What if the black man was just an asshole to the white man?

    I'm completely against racism. However the simple truth is that too many people believe playing the race card is the ONLY response that explains negative actions.

    I take it you have missed the discussions of the many professional and personal failings of Clarence Thomas (a conservative who is where he is only through conservative affirmative action and use of the race card.)

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Shanadeus wrote: »
    Whether Morgan Freeman is behind it or not, adopting an attitude of color-blindness is a bad move. I think there's merit to the argument that there shouldn't be a Black History Month because black history is American history, and confining the conversation about racism in America and black history to February keeps it out of context, out of sight, and out of mind. But color-blindness erases both the history of structural racism in America and the way that structural racism affected and continues to affect black people. De facto segregation, while declining, still exists residentially (another link), in churches, and commercially. Suggesting that "blackness" and "whiteness" are outdated concepts ignores these structural issues.

    Color consciousness (as opposed to color blindness) effectively puts the blame on people who have been historically oppressed and is closely related to a "bootstraps" mentality. If whiteness and blackness don't exist, then why are black people so poor (of course there are exceptions, but on the whole black family and individual wealth is far less than that of white families and individuals)? Is it that they don't work hard enough? All of a sudden, you're falling back into the old racist stereotypes while trying to get rid of racism through the color blindness technique.
    I guess I don't really propose colour blindness then, but more like a form of colour irrelevance instead of colour consciousness.

    The black family that is poor is poor because they are poor - and should be helped from their poorness by directly helping them and fighting the conditions that made them poor in the first place.
    If those conditions are other people looking at the black family with colour consciousness that take shape in the form of racism then sure, acknowledge that other people's view of this particular family as black is the problem - that it's racism that's at fault.

    Guess that's kinda what surrealitycheck said.

    So yeah, I still won't call you black person or white person when speaking of, or to, you but I will recognize that you are particular appearance might cause other to treat you in an unjust manner.

    This strikes me as simultaneously ignoring historical context and present issues of differing forms of privilege all while not really being able to scale at all to attempt to address societal issues at the societal level. You can't write policy for 300,000,000 individuals. It also somewhat ignores how people today who are in no sense racist can still fuck over racial minorities writ large due not to other present day racists, but solely to past injustices that have negatively impacted transgenerational wealth transfer or access to various means of self improvement. You can try to shift things from a more racial lens to a more classist lens, but it won't necessarily work for all of the innumerable problems driven by race and racism.

    And this is still staying at the cultural level, let alone physiological issues in medicine. The commencement speaker at my graduation is doing some groundbreaking work in treating breast cancer in women of primarily african descent because their bodies respond differently to different approaches in comparison to those of european descent. Maybe one day we can get to genetic medicine where everything will be fully individualized, but we sure as hell aren't there yet. Issues of race are way more pernicious than any one individual's reaction to people. Even if everyone stopped thinking racist thoughts today there would still be massive issues to overcome. Not that you as an individual should just say fuck it and be a bigot, that would be bad, but it's so much bigger than that.

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  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Sounds like a Colbert punchline. "I don't see race. Listen, people tell me I'm white and I believe them because police call me sir"

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    Spoiler:
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