[WH40K] Roses are red, violets are blue, I worship chaos, and BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

2868

Gabriel Pitt, dice don't count if they land on the floor dude.

FroThulhu

For real. That kinda thin gets re-rolled

Gabriel_Pitt

Not if _I_ say it doesn't.

Stragint

So running three squads of Thunderwolves, one in each squad and each using a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield was a lot of fun and I was wondering if there is a way to fit them into a 1500 list?

Also, my 2000 point list was kind of a failure I guess. The mission ended up being Seize Ground and Deployment was Pitched Battle. One objective was in the top right corner, middle and bottom left corner. I held the objective at the top right for about three turns before a big CC battle started and I lost it and my other Grey Hunter pack was killed in CC about a turn or two before the second Grey Hunter pack. So yea, two Grey Hunter packs is clearly not enough so I gotta figure out what I need to remove from the list. I also don't like Frag Missiles, 32 hits on a jump pack squad and I only managed to wound and kill 4. How disappointing.

I really need more Razorbacks/Rhinos but I wont be able to afford more until about November.

Slapnuts

If you had fired those ML's as kraks you might have killed more dudes. That's a little trick I learned playing with altmann and Spherick.

At 2k points I always run at least 3 squads of grey hunters.

Did you roll for counter attack in CC? That's always a game changer for me.

mugginns

-Loki- wrote:

Running a Tyranid army these days without Gargoyles should be illegal. For 8 points, you get a flying Termagant with toxin sacs, adrenal glands and almost old rending (auto wound on 6's to hit). The only downside is they can't claim objectives.

If they ever put some variety back in the Nids with a new codex, they really should do an option to have scything talon armed Gargoyles.

My painting oath for my store is 70 gargoyles in August =D

altmann

Stragint,

As a player who uses thunderwolves in all my tourney lists, I can say that you do not want multiple units, but rather, one giant juggernaut. I usually run 5 of them, then attach a lord on mount with 2 fenrisian wargear wolves. This increases their survivability a shit ton. That's 8 models you can allocate wounds to, and if you're smart about it, you can put ap2 and str10 shit on the little wolves and save your big dudes. The thing about Thunderwolves is they are there to die and soak up fire while the rest of your army does it's thing.

JohnnyToxxic

So, I fielded for our Escalation league 2x20 mobs of shoota boyz, a Kan and a big mek with shokk attack gun for 500 pts.

Here's what I learned: even Grey Knights are afraid of that number of boyz. One of my opponents had basically 2 squads of five in Rhinos, an Inquisitor and a Rifleman Dread and I had him running away (rightly so) most of the game. The best part was that on turn two I WAAAGHed got 6 inches on the mob closest to the dread, got the six inch charge, blew up the dread (while losing a boy in the process) and got a 6 inch massacre move.

A thing of beauty.

I also learned that those damned dark eldar are too freaking fast. And that I hate splinter cannons.

altmann

It's funny, but grey knights, for all their insane rules, have not been the huge threat I thought they'd be. Yeah, there's some strong stuff, but it's all relative. Costing that army out can be ridiculous. In fact, I don't think I've lost a game to GK yet. Not that I've played more than 3 or 4 that I can recall. But they were against good players who were using competitive lists. It's also going to take some time to figure out what's good and how to use it. They can still cause some insane rape in the right situation.

angrylinuxgeek

those 2x TLAC with upgraded bullets are nasty. every GK player here uses at least 2 of them.

Halos Nach Tariff

I don't think I've ever beaten GKs with my nids, not anyone with a halfway decent list anyway.

I actually have no idea how I'd go about it.

TheLawinator

I don't like those from a fluff perspective.

edit: those being psyflemen dreads.

mugginns

altmann wrote:

In fact, I don't think I've lost a game to GK yet. Not that I've played more than 3 or 4 that I can recall.

Don't you play IG and SW

mugginns

Halos Nach Tariff wrote:

I don't think I've ever beaten GKs with my nids, not anyone with a halfway decent list anyway.

I actually have no idea how I'd go about it.

Tervigon spam with meelions of gants would give you the best chance of success, I imagine.

altmann

I've played against them with both. Yes, I play IG and wolves. Does it matter? I've used shitty lists against both as well. Ogryn who get forceweaponed instantly and ratlings who fail any morale check you can give them.

It really doesn't matter the army unless you're playing Tau. A good player should be able to put up a decent fight.

mr_mich

2868 wrote:

Gabriel Pitt, dice don't count if they land on the floor dude.

I was definitely thinking about that. It was too poetic for any of us to say anything though. Plus, Gabriel wasn't rolling dice, he was PROPELLING them.

Mazzyx

I have only beat a henchmen list with my orks. And my chaos have tied a single normal grey knights list. I haven't found how to really kill them. Mostly it seems I do the best when I sit back and gunline them as my chaos which I will have to try as my orks. Because I get my face pounded otherwise.

Captain Scurvy

altmann wrote:

I've played against them with both. Yes, I play IG and wolves. Does it matter? I've used shitty lists against both as well. Ogryn who get forceweaponed instantly and ratlings who fail any morale check you can give them.

It really doesn't matter the army unless you're playing Tau. A good player should be able to put up a decent fight.

Altmann is right here i think, They are a solid army but they arent the new world beaters. That being said, i wont even try and lie and say they dont rape nids outright. Can a nid least beat them, yes, but they are starting at a disadvantage out of the gate. Ive been about 50/50 with my GK army so far, and its an almost pure GK force.

altmann

I'm 99% more afraid of a good Dark Eldar list. They make gunline IG look like a bunch of amateurs. Don't be surprised if you see DE topping tourneys for the next few months.

Captain Scurvy

ironically enough nids are the only thing ive seen beat them because you can always make more bugs :\

mugginns

altmann wrote:

I've played against them with both. Yes, I play IG and wolves. Does it matter? I've used shitty lists against both as well. Ogryn who get forceweaponed instantly and ratlings who fail any morale check you can give them.

Welcome to the "multi-wound models who suck" party

I was just saying, you have a different point of view using the best two armies in the game. I'd agree that GK aren't that great, probably 4th or 5th best. Not nearly as solid as BA or the best, like SW and IG.

Mystery.Shadow

Halos Nach Tariff wrote:

I don't think I've ever beaten GKs with my nids, not anyone with a halfway decent list anyway.
I actually have no idea how I'd go about it.

Genestealers are great against Grey Knights. Also, SuperGargoyles and SuperGaunts. Take some Shadow-In-the-Warp to ruin Grey Knight days. Best not get your SitW guys into combat with them, for their Force Weapons will ruin yours. Just stand by to babysit your Gaunts and tarpit those Greys!

Not many Armies can win a battle of attrition with Tyranids!

altmann

I think nids did get shit on a little, but I'm hoping 6th ed will rectify a lot of problems for them and other armies like tau etc.

I was hoping Sisters might be cool, but the leaked dex is so far unappealing. I wouldn't put it past them to make sisters cheap as fuck to make them into a mini-horde army and sell $$$$ minis.

Dr_Keenbean

mr_mich wrote:

2868 wrote:

Gabriel Pitt, dice don't count if they land on the floor dude.

I was definitely thinking about that. It was too poetic for any of us to say anything though. Plus, Gabriel wasn't rolling dice, he was PROPELLING them.

Also I kind of bartered my soul for that die coming up 1.

Gabriel_Pitt

mr_mich wrote:

2868 wrote:

Gabriel Pitt, dice don't count if they land on the floor dude.

I was definitely thinking about that. It was too poetic for any of us to say anything though. Plus, Gabriel wasn't rolling dice, he was PROPELLING them.

I was rolling with vigorous intent, hoping to get that last roll to spin on corner for twenty seconds, just to add to the drama. I mean, Keenbean was down on his knees praying to god for me to fail that save, it would've been churlish not to do what I could to add to the spectacle.

mr_mich

True. When KeenBean prays to Christ and the die comes up 1, re-rolling it is like slapping Jesus in the face with your junk. It's just disrespectful.

Mazzyx

I like the changes on the acts of faith on the leaked sisters codex. They seem pretty cool. The 6++ a lot of units have is kind of cool as well. I am kind of happy they are just using White Dwarf for something useful. Maybe they will starting adding units through it again.

Gabriel_Pitt

I'm ecstatic that Sisters are getting a 6+ inv save. Mich and Keenbean can tell you why.

Echo

MaxMini makes a mycetic spore thingie

2868

JohnnyToxxic wrote:

So, I fielded for our Escalation league 2x20 mobs of shoota boyz, a Kan and a big mek with shokk attack gun for 500 pts.

Here's what I learned: even Grey Knights are afraid of that number of boyz. One of my opponents had basically 2 squads of five in Rhinos, an Inquisitor and a Rifleman Dread and I had him running away (rightly so) most of the game. The best part was that on turn two I WAAAGHed got 6 inches on the mob closest to the dread, got the six inch charge, blew up the dread (while losing a boy in the process) and got a 6 inch massacre move.

A thing of beauty.

I also learned that those damned dark eldar are too freaking fast. And that I hate splinter cannons.

Purifiers ain't scared of those boys.

Yesterday my two purifiers with halberds charged 10 grey hunters. I won combat. He killed one model. I killed 8. (To be fair he rolled a 1 on his PF to hit chance, which is why you ALWAYS bring a wolf guard pack leader...)

Halos Nach Tariff

Mystery.Shadow wrote:

Halos Nach Tariff wrote:

I don't think I've ever beaten GKs with my nids, not anyone with a halfway decent list anyway.
I actually have no idea how I'd go about it.

Genestealers are great against Grey Knights. Also, SuperGargoyles and SuperGaunts. Take some Shadow-In-the-Warp to ruin Grey Knight days. Best not get your SitW guys into combat with them, for their Force Weapons will ruin yours. Just stand by to babysit your Gaunts and tarpit those Greys!

Not many Armies can win a battle of attrition with Tyranids!

Ah now don't think I haven't tried this. Assuming there's a Librarian nearby it just doesn't work; if you try to furious charge and match their halberds in I they just throw out a Santuary and knock you down to I1. Next turn when your natural high I comes back they can just cast Quicksilver and beat you down again. Everything has a power weapon and can get to str5/6 with hammerhands to kill the bugs on 2s. Everypoint you lose the combat by just means your losing more to No Retreat.

Even without a Libby I6 halberds decimate gaunts and stealers, psyrifle dreds smush most SitW and force weapons destroy the rest.

Don't even get me started on Draigo/Paladins...

Ah well, perhaps next time.

Stragint

Slapnuts wrote:

If you had fired those ML's as kraks you might have killed more dudes. That's a little trick I learned playing with altmann and Spherick.

At 2k points I always run at least 3 squads of grey hunters.

Did you roll for counter attack in CC? That's always a game changer for me.

That is actually what I was thinking afterwards while I was getting drunk beyond reason with some friends. Krak Missiles into Dante and his small squad would have been more effective. I also always used Counter-Attack in CC. I always roll really bad with my Wulfen though. I'm definitely not running anything less than three Grey Hunter packs though. I really didn't like having two.

altmann wrote:

Stragint,

As a player who uses thunderwolves in all my tourney lists, I can say that you do not want multiple units, but rather, one giant juggernaut. I usually run 5 of them, then attach a lord on mount with 2 fenrisian wargear wolves. This increases their survivability a shit ton. That's 8 models you can allocate wounds to, and if you're smart about it, you can put ap2 and str10 shit on the little wolves and save your big dudes. The thing about Thunderwolves is they are there to die and soak up fire while the rest of your army does it's thing.

But if I put them into a big squad like that I can only get one special weapon. I'm not sure how I would even fit that many in if I had that many. Right now I only have three regular mrdandy thunderwolves and one Canis.

FroThulhu

@Echo Nice. I bookmarked that link.

Slapnuts

If they die they aren't going to use those special weapons anyway. Just sayin'. Always safety in numbers in this game.

2868

Stragint wrote:

Slapnuts wrote:

If you had fired those ML's as kraks you might have killed more dudes. That's a little trick I learned playing with altmann and Spherick.

At 2k points I always run at least 3 squads of grey hunters.

Did you roll for counter attack in CC? That's always a game changer for me.

That is actually what I was thinking afterwards while I was getting drunk beyond reason with some friends. Krak Missiles into Dante and his small squad would have been more effective. I also always used Counter-Attack in CC. I always roll really bad with my Wulfen though. I'm definitely not running anything less than three Grey Hunter packs though. I really didn't like having two.

altmann wrote:

Stragint,

As a player who uses thunderwolves in all my tourney lists, I can say that you do not want multiple units, but rather, one giant juggernaut. I usually run 5 of them, then attach a lord on mount with 2 fenrisian wargear wolves. This increases their survivability a shit ton. That's 8 models you can allocate wounds to, and if you're smart about it, you can put ap2 and str10 shit on the little wolves and save your big dudes. The thing about Thunderwolves is they are there to die and soak up fire while the rest of your army does it's thing.

But if I put them into a big squad like that I can only get one special weapon. I'm not sure how I would even fit that many in if I had that many. Right now I only have three regular mrdandy thunderwolves and one Canis.

Three and Canis is plenty (Don't use Canis as Canis first of all). Hell you can make them all wolf lords and load em all down with special weapons runic armor and storm shields. Then fill the rest of your list with wolf guard pack leaders and grey hunters.

Stragint

Yea, I wasn't planning on using Canis as Canis. I made a new list, I actually have two that I'm looking at right now. One uses a Land Raider for my Terminators while the other uses a Drop Pod. I'm not a big fan of Drop Pods since I have to drop one turn one and so far I haven't played anyone who put anything but tanks down during deployment.

Mr_Rose

Echo wrote:

MaxMini makes a mycetic spore thingie

Well damn, I think we have a winner.

altmann

On the charge, you'll be getting 5 special weapon attacks with a thunderwolf. That's 5 thunderhammer attacks. I don't know what you're worried about that is going to survive 5 hammer attacks. that's AFTER you rolled a few rends that make them str 11-13 (5+6+D3) so even against walkers you can rape shit at I4 with rending.

I've tried multiple units, small units, and straight up 5 man vanillas, but the all-time winner has been as many as you can fit in the squad.

Raslin

altmann wrote:

That's 5 thunderhammer attacks. I don't know what you're worried about that is going to survive 5 hammer attacks.

Death Company Dreadnoughts.

Salvation122

Mystery.Shadow wrote:

Genestealers are great against Grey Knights.

Genestealers will never get in combat against a competent GK opponent. They will get blown the fuck up from across the board with Psybolt Rifleman Dreads and Psybolt HB Razorbacks, and you won't be able to stop him because you're not bringing Hive Guard if you're bringing Stealers and Nids are otherwise pretty much incapable of destroying something with an AV.