[Chat], and the world [chats] with you; [Brainstorm], and you [brainstorm] alone.

squidbunny

Oh you guys.

Quoth wrote:

I'm using Gimp now. Must find good texture... is the background one okay, or should I replace that as well?

The background's pretty inoffensive. For textures you can always just search dA and find someone with permissive usage rules.

ruzkin

Quoth, just google 'free paper textures'. Lay over the top of everything with either a multiply or overlay function, reduce opacity so it's real subtle, victory is achieved.

TheBigEasy

MKR wrote:

squidbunny wrote:

(I never post here but I am now

Quoth wrote:

Thanks @squidbunny !

I thought the circles looked too bare without some kind of texture, but I guess I have to figure out a different way to do it. Maybe I can find a picture of the moon or something and use that? Currently it's a coffee stain filter.

I'd apply an actual paper texture vs. using a filter. Filters look like filters every time. I'm not sure how to do this, though, in Sumopaint (I think you said?); it's simple in Photoshop and probably GIMP, which I also don't really know very well.

MKR wrote:

!

You've lured her into TWB. Finish her!

...

I mean

Hello

Heh. I think about taking up with you folks often; I'm far fonder of writing prose than I am of drawing/comics, honestly, but I don't put enough serious time into anything to bother soliciting feedback. I never finish anything.

But hi!

If writing regularly were a prerequisite for posting in the chat thread this place never would have gotten off the ground. TWB is what it is because of the slackers.

Well ... I should feel right at home then ... "slacking off" is me middle name. Actually its "procrastination", but who's counting anyway ...

ElJeffe

Gah, I really hate world-building. I don't want to have to establish why things work the way they work in my world, I want to the reader to know so that I can tell him a story wherein interesting things happen.

...

You're all going to kick me out of TWB club, aren't you? This is like going to a wine tasting and going, "Bah, fucking grapes, stupid little goddamn pointless fruits, am I right?" isn't it?

chiasaur11

ElJeffe wrote:

Gah, I really hate world-building. I don't want to have to establish why things work the way they work in my world, I want to the reader to know so that I can tell him a story wherein interesting things happen.

...

You're all going to kick me out of TWB club, aren't you? This is like going to a wine tasting and going, "Bah, fucking grapes, stupid little goddamn pointless fruits, am I right?" isn't it?

Not really.

tapeslinger

ElJeffe wrote:

Gah, I really hate world-building. I don't want to have to establish why things work the way they work in my world, I want to the reader to know so that I can tell him a story wherein interesting things happen.

...

You're all going to kick me out of TWB club, aren't you? This is like going to a wine tasting and going, "Bah, fucking grapes, stupid little goddamn pointless fruits, am I right?" isn't it?

I go through this a bit, too. I think it does not help that the world I'm envisioning is somewhere between a David Lynch movie and something from an HR Giger illustration... ha

Quoth

Do you HAVE to establish the stuff you're establishing or can the reader figure it out from context?

geardrops

Quoth wrote:

Do you HAVE to establish the stuff you're establishing or can the reader figure it out from context?

This. IMHO it's better to let the world emerge organically as you're going along. Infodumps -- if that's what you're talking about -- are no bueno.

ElJeffe

I don't have to establish much, really. The setting is sort of a maybe-80s-ish crime-ridden city (mostly so I can eliminate plot-inconvenient technology like cell-phones and i-everythings), so most of that can just be communicated through context. But the city also has a relevant history and the world has a sort of unique mythology to it.

An example of the sort of thing that annoys me: A character is researching some old books. I am showing him doing this. But you can't just go, "So he pulls out the book he wants and turns to the right page and BAM! There's what he needs!" So I have to pause and come up with the details of what else he's finding, which requires me to come up with the sort of things that might actually exist in old texts in this world. Subsequently, the character is talking to someone who knows about this sort of thing. Some of the information given is crucial to the plot and will come up later. But it has to be dressed up as the random meanderings of some old coot, or else it may as well be written in twenty-point font with an arrow pointing at it that says "THIS IS ACTUALLY MEANINGFUL!" And since the coot is discussing the world's mythology, I need to make sure what he's talking about is consistent with the world's mythology as established elsewhere.

It's mostly just that I get on a good roll and then suddenly I grind to a halt while I figure out how this part of my world actually works, because to the extent I do world-building at all beforehand, it's just a bunch of loose concepts and wouldn't-it-be-neats floating in my head. And it all amounts to maybe a paragraph of text, which takes me thirty minutes to write because I am paranoid about thematic inconsistency.

ElJeffe

Also, that Onion article is funny. The way the geography of my setting is created is thus:

I have a big sheet of paper. This is my city. When I mention a new place, I put it in a random location on the map. Then if I need someone to go from A to B, I know how far away it is and in what direction and I don't have to worry about streets magically changing locations. It's easy and I can do it on the fly.

geardrops

@ElJeffe -- Well, I don't know your method, but if I were in your shoes, I'd just write the thing out, and then go back and fix whatever needed fixing in edits. If you add too much info at the start, you can go back and delete it, and if there's missing information, you can always add it in later.

Unless you're already at that stage, in which case, I got nothin'

chiasaur11

Yeah, just write something. Come back and worldbuild later.

I mean, not saying it's the best method, but it's what the advice in "On Writing" says to do.

And it keeps up the pace, which is good.

TheBigEasy

I'll second ... or third ... the "do it later". I love world building, but I have also found that getting hung up on it or any additional information just slows down writing. Just put a tag in <research left-spinning yoghurt cultures later> and move on.

ElJeffe

geardrops wrote:

@ElJeffe -- Well, I don't know your method, but if I were in your shoes, I'd just write the thing out, and then go back and fix whatever needed fixing in edits. If you add too much info at the start, you can go back and delete it, and if there's missing information, you can always add it in later.

Unless you're already at that stage, in which case, I got nothin'

When reviewing the first draft I do a fine-tooth comb check over consistency of setting and background and such. But I generally try to avoid putting in <fuck it, I'll figure this out later> tags because I find that it makes it harder to maintain an organic and natural feel to the writing. It's harder for me to insert segues after the fact than to just plow through it in the first place.

It's less a "here is a problem that needs solving" and more a "this is a part of writing that annoys me," which is why I don't see myself writing Tolkien-esque epics or hard sci-fi any time soon.

Mostly I just like to bitch about things, I think.

Quoth

The only solution is to create an extensive world-building wiki prior to beginning each story.

ElJeffe

Of course! Why didn't I think of that!

Edcrab

Wordbuilding is a nasty itchy little practise that normally crops up during a story and the reader can do their best to not fall over it

Quoth

That is why I only write short fiction. It's like a roller coaster: fast, confusing, and over before you know what happened.

MKR

I refuse to take your bait.

Quoth

But it's delicious?

Spoiler:

What bait

MKR

What is the polite way to tell someone "Your post makes you sound pretentious and boring, and it'll hurt your writing if you keep it up. Try writing like you speak, and edit for clarity."?

MKR

Quoth wrote:

But it's delicious?

Spoiler:

What bait

fast, confusing, and over before you know what happened.

Quoth

Oh, so you mean like

Quoth wrote:

That is why I only write short fiction. It's like sex with your mom: fast, confusing, and over before you know what happened.

Quoth

MKR wrote:

What is the polite way to tell someone "Your post makes you sound pretentious and boring, and it'll hurt your writing if you keep it up. Try writing like you speak, and edit for clarity."?

"Try writing like you speak, and edit for clarity. Your current tone isn't working well."

MKR

Quoth wrote:

MKR wrote:

What is the polite way to tell someone "Your post makes you sound pretentious and boring, and it'll hurt your writing if you keep it up. Try writing like you speak, and edit for clarity."?

"Try writing like you speak, and edit for clarity. Your current tone isn't working well."

You are a gentlelady and a scholar

Quoth

Ok, so... did the cover two ways with the suggested changes, because I wasn't sure where to overlay the paper texture.

http://candleinsunshine.com/asthemoonclimbs/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/adastracover131.png

http://candleinsunshine.com/asthemoonclimbs/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/adastracover131top.png

Thoughts?

Magell

I like the first one better with the cleaner look.

geardrops

Agree, I like the first one better Plus, I don't know how well the distressed look will scale, it's pretty subtle...

MKR

The second looks like a cheap PS filter. The first looks like a nice texture overlay. It looks professionally designed now. :rotate:

tapeslinger

definitely prefer the first. And it looks fantastic, Quoth!

chiasaur11

Jumping on the bandwagon with the first. Looks nice.

ruzkin

Yeah, the first one, definitely. The texture is very small and obviously tiled so when you sit it on top of the image of the bee it starts to look like, as people have said, a cheap filter.

TheBigEasy

I'll say "first one" as well ... looks better and cleaner.

Quoth

The texture is actually two giant overlaid textures, one of a kind of rice paper and the other a canvas. I don't think either is tiled, but maybe I suck at googling? But if it looks tiled, then it's a moot point.

Going to see if the folks in AC can further refine, now that you guys are pretty satisfied. Thanks for all the help! You dudes rule.

ElJeffe

I like the second. The first is poop.



(I actually like the first one but I was trying to make my late contribution somehow relevant.)

One thing that actually struck me about the first is how odd it looks when you zoom in. At full size, the paper texture is very obviously low-res (or just very coarse), while the detail on, for example, the bee is very fine. The difference in scales is fairly disconcerting. This probably doesn't matter so much since the cover will probably be scaled down to the point where the bee's detail is largely obscured, but maybe something to keep in mind?

ruzkin

Huh, you're right. They aren't tiled, but the ricepaper has a repeating pattern that makes it LOOK tiled, which puts me in mind of a photoshop filter.

Quoth

Yeah, tiled or not, if it looks bad then it has to go. Hopefully I can work on it tomorrow. It's weird because I still feel like it needs something more to make it look like a real book cover, but damned if I know what.

Quoth

Double posts are lame
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BEAST!

For what it's worth, Quoth, I would totes buy your book just based on that book cover and i don't even LIKE you.

Quoth

Aw, thanks Beast. I think.

In other news, OPINIONS: http://candleinsunshine.com/asthemoonclimbs/on-writing/excuses-excuses-how-to-stay-a-bad-writer/