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Dungeons of Dredmor: Conquest of the Wizardlands now available!

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Posts

  • VerboseVerbose Registered User regular
    I feel like it hast most definitely been said before, but don't go into a mysterious portal. Man what is up with those? I was going through it cautiously, not having too much trouble with the guys, when all of a sudden one of them does 35 dmg to me (60 health total at the time). I wish there was some sort of way to tell if a guy is blatantly stronger than every other guy near him...

    Regardless, I actually killed that one with a bolt of mass destruction, and made it to the last room with I assume the exit portal. I say I assume because the LAST guy in the room double-hit me and killed me without me having any chance to do anything. So yeah, never doing that again.

    Also: what is the point of it? There was absolutely nothing good in the area. Is there something once you leave?

    Verbose on
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  • Farout FoolioFarout Foolio Registered User
    NNnoooooooooooo! Died to the monster zoo on level six! D:
    I WAS DOING SO WELL! ;-;

    That's it, hardcore mode is getting turned off.

    Farout Foolio on
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  • Dac VinDac Vin SPECIAL DELIVERY Registered User regular
    Latest lesson in deaths: Pumpkinns hits really fucking hard and can cast spells and you have to chase them around arrrgh

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Dac Vin wrote:
    Latest lesson in deaths: Pumpkinns hits really fucking hard and can cast spells and you have to chase them around arrrgh

    Pumpkinns use the caster AI, but have one of the strongest melee attacks for their floor. A way to root them or teleport to or away from them is very helpful for melee characters.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Registered User regular
    A way to teleport (or more specifically, escape from a bad situation) is useful for all characters.

    Steam ID: Hahnsoo, Steam Name currently: Hahnsopolis | PSN: Hahnsoo | Monster Hunter Tri: Hahnsoo, E8HJCA
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    I started up a mage since the recent 1.09 update borked existing saves. Going from a melee player to a mage is a huge change to say the least. Not having a good readout for how much damage my spells do is annoying, but they're clearly getting the job done. The first floor (medium difficulty) was tough at times until I got the wyrmling. I've learned to not hop into every teleport square I see since spawning in the middle of a bunch of melee monsters can hurt. And I'm actually saving wands since they do something for me while cubing mundane bolts.

    Apparently there was some change that made damage effects on the floor more powerful and I burn through enemies easily as a result. I recently wrapped up floor 4 and have been fireballing monsters and psychic shoving them back into the fire with impunity. I went with unarmed combat for the defense bonuses and carry two orbs and hope that not having a real backup option of hitting things later on doesn't come back to bite me.

    Skills are Unarmed, Leyline Walker, Blood Magic, Promethean, Psionics, Mathemagic, and Archaeology.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • APODionysusAPODionysus Registered User regular
    SkutSkut wrote:
    Any good starting builds for a new player? I realize anything would work, but I don't know all (any) of the mechanics for the game as of yet.

    Promethean-Mathemagic-Archeologist-Burglary-MagicTraining-Leylines is pretty good.

    Drop magic training and get Blood magic instead, unless it's been nerfed

    The Post 2012 Summer Sale Backlog Progress
    Games Finished: 34 Games Added: 15 Total Progress: +19

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  • Grey PaladinGrey Paladin Registered User regular
    Between Leylines and Magic Training, I'd pick the latter every time. Magic regen is so slow its useless. if you make good use of Blood Magic you are not going to run out of mana anyhow.

    "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Registered User regular
    SkutSkut wrote:
    Any good starting builds for a new player? I realize anything would work, but I don't know all (any) of the mechanics for the game as of yet.

    Promethean-Mathemagic-Archeologist-Burglary-MagicTraining-Leylines is pretty good.

    Drop magic training and get Blood magic instead, unless it's been nerfed
    Magic Training is excellent now. I'd rather drop Leylines for Blood Magic. And again, I'd rather pick up Golem than Promethean. You don't need AoEs.

    Hahnsoo1 on
    Steam ID: Hahnsoo, Steam Name currently: Hahnsopolis | PSN: Hahnsoo | Monster Hunter Tri: Hahnsoo, E8HJCA
  • Grey PaladinGrey Paladin Registered User regular
    I don't know. The second spell in Prom killed the first 4 floors by itself thanks to blood magic mana regen. AoEs are delicious for zoos.

    "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Registered User regular
    I don't know. The second spell in Prom killed the first 4 floors by itself thanks to blood magic mana regen. AoEs are delicious for zoos.
    And is useless for the last 5 floors. Mathemagic scales all the way down all 10 floors (due to the Zen buff), while you need multiple castings of Prom magic to take out basic targets. Golem allows you to summon walls, which allows you to kill zoos safer and easier. If you need AoEs, pick up some AoE bolts along the way. They fill the same function. Different types also stack (you can stack a Poison cloud from a bolt with a Poison cloud from a throwable with an acid cloud from a bolt, etc.).

    Steam ID: Hahnsoo, Steam Name currently: Hahnsopolis | PSN: Hahnsoo | Monster Hunter Tri: Hahnsoo, E8HJCA
  • Farout FoolioFarout Foolio Registered User
    By Krom as my witness, I *AM* going to beat this game as a viking! >:0
    Sword/Axe/Dual/Armor/Viking/Berserk/Smith

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  • Grey PaladinGrey Paladin Registered User regular
    The robot in Golemancy eventually becomes useless as well, while the rest of the spells in Prom scale up just fine with the floors. I usually pick Math along with Prom simply for the self-buff and the port - the Prom spells are better for actual offense most of the time.
    If you have enough AoE bolts to last you through every big fight I am not sure you even need magic.

    "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Registered User regular
    The robot in Golemancy eventually becomes useless as well, while the rest of the spells in Prom scale up just fine with the floors. I usually pick Math along with Prom simply for the self-buff and the port - the Prom spells are better for actual offense most of the time.
    If you have enough AoE bolts to last you through every big fight I am not sure you even need magic.
    The Robot in Golem tanks all the way up to floor 7. While it indeed is useless for Floors 8-10, it tanks Lord Dredmor for around 3 hits total, making the final fight trivially easy. Every time it dies, you just summon a new one. Dredmor's AI goes after the Robot preferentially. By that point, you should have enough Mana Potions to chain cast anything for a while, but it shouldn't take more than 3 robot castings even on GR to kill him with Recursive Curse.

    Recursive Curse kills a single target in a single casting all the way up to floor 10. You can't say the same with Prom spells. It does it for less mana, too, because of the way spellpower scales for it. It's "cast, walk away, and the enemy dies in a couple turns", all for a pittance.

    The utility in Golem is not only in Mustache (good until floor 3, and only 1 point invested, low mana cost per kill) or Robot (good until floor 7, works a bit in floor 8, tanks Lord Dredmor). It's the Living Wall (which can't be taken down) and Thaumite Swarm (which is a multiplying zoo killer), not to mention the Digging Ray (which is a convenient shortcut and "arena" creator for picking and choosing fights... by the time you get it, you should be a walking juggernaut of Recursive Curse, though).

    Hahnsoo1 on
    Steam ID: Hahnsoo, Steam Name currently: Hahnsopolis | PSN: Hahnsoo | Monster Hunter Tri: Hahnsoo, E8HJCA
  • Grey PaladinGrey Paladin Registered User regular
    I am not sure I ever died fighting a single enemy (well.. not true. My warrior got critted once). HP doesn't seems to scale quickly enough for anything not to die in a few more additional castings, and unless you build a tanky warrior big groups usually pose a greater threat than any single creature in the game beside perhaps Dredmor himelf. If you make sure you fight a lot of monsters at once (this is good for you if you base your strategy on AoEs) you can actually earn mana from casting spells since you get more mana from what you kill than it costs you to cast the spell.

    Recursive is great when you face a few enemies (eventually, when it gets ridic cheap - early on its only good against bosses), but it might actually take you more actions to cast it on every monster you face than casting a few AoE spells that, while they individually deal less damage to each target, deal the damage to every target and so can kill them in fewer castings if you face a sufficient number of monsters.

    If you kill monsters before they get to you, you do not need a tank. Very few enemies in the game have significant ranged offense. I am not saying your strategy is not valid, but I would not call it superior.

    Grey Paladin on
    "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Registered User regular
    If you kill monsters before they get to you, you do not need a tank. Very few enemies in the game have significant ranged offense. I am not saying your strategy is not valid, but I would not call it superior.
    The "few" enemies that have ranged offense are among the ones that people complain about. Genies, Octopuses, Pumpkins, Drakes, etc. They are all over the place, too. But all magic skills take care of ranged easily, so I'm not sure why you bring this point up.

    Prom used to be the go-to magic skill, back when Obvious Fireball was castable through walls. It has since been nerfed to merely average. The best magic skill is Mathemagics, currently, due to the self-buff, the teleport, and the power of Recursive Curse. You are absolutely correct that if you kill monsters before they get to you, you don't need a tank. But the most efficient way to do this in most situations is simply casting a single Recursive Curse on them.

    With Golem, you can clear the first 3 floors with only a single point expenditure. This is huge for a mage. My only difficulty on GR/PD is getting that first level and first point. After that, I know I have enough breathing room to level up a bit and set up my build, letting the Mustache be my vanguard. It's a nice luxury, and I prefer it over Prom, which takes several points to get going. The glyph can't kill in one hit, and costs too much mana. At the early stages, you don't have multiple points in Blood Magic to make AoEs efficient.

    Steam ID: Hahnsoo, Steam Name currently: Hahnsopolis | PSN: Hahnsoo | Monster Hunter Tri: Hahnsoo, E8HJCA
  • Squidget0Squidget0 Registered User regular
    Have you guys played Mathemagic in the latest patch? I went through with a Mathemagic/Promethean guy in the latest patch and it felt like Recursive Curse was nerfed a lot. It generally didn't do much more damage than Obvious Fireball to most monsters past floor 6 or so. I ended up ignoring it entirely in favor of Fireball and Chemical Explosion spam later on. I'm not sure if it's because the spell is worse or because monsters have more resists, but Mathematic is nowhere near as good as it was before the DLC patch.

    I don't know why anyone considers Promethean useless later. It takes a few castings to kill something, but that's no problem if you have proper mana regen. You definitely need both Blood Magic and to get your mana regen up to 1 per turn to sustain casting it though. My most recent winning build was Prom/Mathemancy/Emomancy/Blood Magic/Leylines/Burglary/Alchemy. The three spell trees gave me a variety of damage types and utility in the teleport and heal/cleanse. Blood Magic is amazing later on when it's giving ~20 mana per kill, while Leylines gets you to that all-important 1 mana per turn breakpoint much sooner. Burglary is all-around good, and Alchemy means you'll have stacks of potions later in the game.

  • SavantSavant Registered User regular
    Monsters resisting causes weird stuff to happen with recursive curse. They'll usually resist one of the many parts of it, but it seems like it blocks you from casting it again for full effect until the main debuff would have worn off normally, so you want some sort of backup to use when it doesn't work. Be it fire or thaumites or whatever.

    Also, blood magic is almost OP in the latest couple of patches, because it scales with your magic power in how much mana you get back per kill, and seems to work as long as you get a killing blow on anything (as opposed to a pet). Leylines has a nice active regen skill, but I was using it back when the buff resist bug wasn't fixed yet which hurt it quite a bit.

  • TIFunkaliciousTIFunkalicious Kicking back in NebraskaRegistered User regular
    oh my god the werediggle animations are ADORABLE

    Box Live: TIFunkalicious
    LoL: Nerf Love
    Steam: TIFunk
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    oh my god the werediggle animations are ADORABLE

    Nom! ^_^

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  • SmoogySmoogy Registered User regular
    How much does the DLC add and is it worth it? I know it's only $1.50...but...yeah I'm cheap. Haha there are so many games that $1.50 could be used for!

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  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    Smoogy wrote:
    How much does the DLC add and is it worth it? I know it's only $1.50...but...yeah I'm cheap. Haha there are so many games that $1.50 could be used for!

    Lots and yes.

  • BroncbusterBroncbuster Registered User regular
    So, reading further about stuff, got a basic handle on the game: I see you guys are taking Archaeology on your mages. I'm probably missing the point. Can you explain what makes it a good skill?

    Also, with this build, what would you level first, I'm still new to magic entirely. had golem on one guy:
    Golem-Mathemagic-Archeologist-Burglary-MagicTraining-blood magic

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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Registered User regular
    So, reading further about stuff, got a basic handle on the game: I see you guys are taking Archaeology on your mages. I'm probably missing the point. Can you explain what makes it a good skill?

    Also, with this build, what would you level first, I'm still new to magic entirely. had golem on one guy:
    Golem-Mathemagic-Archeologist-Burglary-MagicTraining-blood magic
    1 point in Golem to get the Mustache first. Let the Mustache tank for most battles on the first and second floor (possibly 3rd as well, but you should have leveled Mathemagics by then). I'd either level Mathemagics all the way after that (for Recursive Curse and Zen), or level Golem enough to get Unliving Wall and Thaumite Swarm (dangerous, but this combo will clear zoos with minimal effort and mana spent).

    I actually no longer take Archeology on most of my characters anymore, since they nerfed The Translation is All Wrong, but a lot of people take Archeology to reroll Krong altars (potentially more magical properties). It is a solid skill choice, though, to deal with traps and give you a few other benefits. Most builds contain some way of dealing with traps.

    I generally go for Alchemy on my mage characters for a big supply of strong booze and Mana Potions, as well as crafting orbs/staves.

    Steam ID: Hahnsoo, Steam Name currently: Hahnsopolis | PSN: Hahnsoo | Monster Hunter Tri: Hahnsoo, E8HJCA
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    I found a Bolt of Mass Destruction on level 1. I'm actually afraid to try that thing out just in case it ends up blowing me up, and it would sell for 6000 gold in a shop, which would be very helpful early on.

    To wiki it, or not to wiki it?

  • BroncbusterBroncbuster Registered User regular
    So Burglary would cover me instead of archaeology then? for traps and such.

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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Registered User regular
    jothki wrote:
    I found a Bolt of Mass Destruction on level 1. I'm actually afraid to try that thing out just in case it ends up blowing me up, and it would sell for 6000 gold in a shop, which would be very helpful early on.

    To wiki it, or not to wiki it?
    I'd personally keep it, but that's just me (emergency "panic button" items are always good to have on hand). 6000 zorkmids is pretty tempting. If there are specific items in a shop that you need (as in, Brax is selling it to you RIGHT NOW), then I'd say go for it.
    So Burglary would cover me instead of archaeology then? for traps and such.
    Experiment with the two skills. See which one you like better. But yeah, in general, you shouldn't need more than one of the trapper skills.

    Hahnsoo1 on
    Steam ID: Hahnsoo, Steam Name currently: Hahnsopolis | PSN: Hahnsoo | Monster Hunter Tri: Hahnsoo, E8HJCA
  • BroncbusterBroncbuster Registered User regular
    Thanks. Got gameplay somewhat learned, still have nuances to finger out, skills, items etc...

    Broncbuster on
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  • ShadeShade Registered User regular
    missed out on the dlc :(

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    So apparently either Muscle Diggles have some sort of ability to see invisible enemies, or invisibility potions don't do shit in melee range.

    I really need to stop walking through portals. I had been hoping that clearing level 3 would be enough to survive a level 2 portal, but apparently it wasn't.

  • übergeekübergeek Registered User regular
    Well, I'm working my way through my backlog and I figure this would be good as my next game.

    How I Dredmore?

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  • BroncbusterBroncbuster Registered User regular
    my experience since the winter sale, make mans, go beat on monsters, die honorably* and try again.


    *may or may not be actually honorably

    Check the last page, I asked some newb questions on page 23 or 24

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  • übergeekübergeek Registered User regular
    Hmm...Math, Leylines, Alch, Smithing, Staves....Promethean? Figure something with a pet and the wiki says the Dragon is better than the golem.

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  • übergeekübergeek Registered User regular
    Woo double post.

    übergeek on
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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    I really wish the crafting menu told you more information about the end product, or at least how many stacks it'll produce. I held off on grating all my cheese for the first few games before realizing how absurdly well it works.

  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Registered User regular
    übergeek wrote:
    Hmm...Math, Leylines, Alch, Smithing, Staves....Promethean? Figure something with a pet and the wiki says the Dragon is better than the golem.
    Erm. I wouldn't suggest Smithing with a starter build or a mage build. I'm not sure where you are getting that. Also, while the Wyrmling is better than the Mustache, it also takes more points before you get to it (the Mustache only requires a single point). Golem also has another pet along the line (Mortal Machine) which is a level 16 Fighter and can tank even Lord Dreadmor for 2 or 3 hits.

    For a starter build, go with the fighter suggestions, so you can get used to the game. Magic has a lot of hassles, many of which will lead to a quick death. Less health, low Mana Regen, sucky spells, etc. You might get away with it on Elvishly Easy, but a Fighter build will get you used to the game a lot faster and with a lot less hassle.

    A better newbie build would be:
    Any two Melee Weapon skills (due to the free weapon you get for each), Dual Wield, Assassination, Berserker Rage, Burglary, and Archeology. Two trapper skills gives you plenty of points for disarming traps, free weapons and Dual Wield will ensure success on the initial floors, and Assassination and Berserker Rage adds damage icing on the cake. It's a terrible build for finishing the game (it can be done, however), but it will rock most of the upper floors.

    Steam ID: Hahnsoo, Steam Name currently: Hahnsopolis | PSN: Hahnsoo | Monster Hunter Tri: Hahnsoo, E8HJCA
  • BroncbusterBroncbuster Registered User regular
    bah nm, sorting wierd at work vs home.

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    I don't see why free weapons would matter, at least for Dwarven. You find more easily enough.

    I've had good luck with Astrology in a starter melee build. The first skill is a pretty decent buff, it wears off when you're hit but can be easily recast as necessary since you don't need to maintain it and has a chance to AoE all nearby enemies when you're hit by an attack. You have a mana bar, so you might as well get some use out of it.

    I would suggest trying out Blacksmithing as well, it's fun to play with and putting a single point in it will let you perfectly disarm everything on the first level.

  • übergeekübergeek Registered User regular
    I tried that build I mentioned and made blood magic my last slot, was doing very well on the first floor Going Rogue (was using the smaller map option just to try it out). I got 2/3 of the maps cleared when I made a stupid mistake and died. =) I managed to get 2 levels, 1 in Leylines and in Blood Magic. Just cast the Fire wave spell a few times, whack them with the staff to finish them or port away and let the burning do it's job. Full or nearly full mana at the end.

    For not knowing what I was doing, that was pretty fun. Won't do it with permadeath until I can kill Dredmore on hard though. Is there anything especially awesome you can do? Like you pick up an item that gives off a fire aura, or items that if you cast a spell it freezes them, so I can cast the fire wall and freeze them (freezerburn, ha ha!). Those sorts of things. I only ask since my sprite's appearance doesn't change with equipment, it would be nice to do awesome things since I can't look awesome doing things.

    übergeek on
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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Registered User regular
    übergeek wrote:
    I tried that build I mentioned and made blood magic my last slot, was doing very well on the first floor Going Rogue (was using the smaller map option just to try it out). I got 2/3 of the maps cleared when I made a stupid mistake and died. =) I managed to get 2 levels, 1 in Leylines and in Blood Magic. Just cast the Fire wave spell a few times, whack them with the staff to finish them or port away and let the burning do it's job. Full or nearly full mana at the end.

    For not knowing what I was doing, that was pretty fun. Won't do it with permadeath until I can kill Dredmore on hard though. Is there anything especially awesome you can do? Like you pick up an item that gives off a fire aura, or items that if you cast a spell it freezes them, so I can cast the fire wall and freeze them (freezerburn, ha ha!). Those sorts of things. I only ask since my sprite's appearance doesn't change with equipment, it would be nice to do awesome things since I can't look awesome doing things.
    It's a roguelike. In most roguelikes, you look like a @ symbol. :-P

    Why are you doing "Going Rogue"? You should start out on Elvishly Easy or Dwarven Moderation. Unless you WANT to die on floor 1 or 2 repeatedly, or you are an expert at roguelikes, of course.

    Steam ID: Hahnsoo, Steam Name currently: Hahnsopolis | PSN: Hahnsoo | Monster Hunter Tri: Hahnsoo, E8HJCA
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