AV receivers and HDMI pass through

JihadJesus

So my crappy surround sound receiver finally bit the dust and I'm looking at replacing it. It looks like receivers these days all take HDMI signals and essentially act as HDMI switchers for video signals as well; this is pretty cool, but I need a bit more info on how the pass through works. Even the basic models I'm looking at seem to allow the HDMI signal to be passed along to the TV bypassing the sound system with the unit in standby. What I'm wondering is if this will also allow me to pass through the video signal while also using the sound system for another source, i.e. running the 360 through to the TV but also listening to NPR via the tuner on the speakers or whatever.

I'm looking at basic models like the Denon AVR-1312 and Onkyo TX-SR309 but I can tell if I'd need another HDMI switch prior to running the 360 signal into the receiver to be able to do this. I actually use this a LOT, so I'd like to know if I'll need another switch so I can figure it into the cost if I need to.

Skoal Cat

Not to my understanding, no. I did this years ago and the only way I pulled it off was by running video inputs directly to the TV and audio through the receiver.

JihadJesus

Hmm, that's too bad. With the old setup I just split the audio out and ran one to the receiver and one to the TV along with the video, or used multiple out (optical and standard etc) from the source. It looks like HDMI splitters do exist, but they cost like a goo dbit more than I would have expected and from the reviews they don't seem to actually, you know, work.

Hmm. Not too jazzed about spending money on a new receiver to lose a feature I need.

Skoal Cat

The problem is that HDMI is a video and audio signal. I suppose if you used DVI+audio you could do something like this.

edit: http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=hdmi+splitter&x=0&y=0

JihadJesus

I think there are some powered splitters out there, and they seem to have much better reviews but it's still hit and miss. I guess I might just hit up ebay for an ancient, cheap receiver instead of upgrading which kind of sucks.

[edit]
Thinking about it more, I don't really need a splitter - I never need to send the signal to both the receiver and the TV at the same time. What I need is more like a 1 input to 2 output mechanical switch that replicates unplugging the cable and moving it to the other destination. For some reason that also seems to be hard to get.

I guess I could replicate it with a labelled pair of couplers with one tied to HDMI cable to the receiver and the other to the TV and just plug into whichever one I need, but that seems pretty ridiculous.

Handgimp

So I have the Onkyo TX-SR307. If I understand correctly, you want to have the 360 signal always pass video to TV, and sometimes have the audio be 360, sometimes radio? You can put your 360 in HDMI 1, and variably assign HDMI 1 to have a digital input from another source that's not the 360. This would require your other audio source to be either optical or coax. You'd do the switching with the remote - it's about three button presses.

JihadJesus

Well, that was an example,. Really what I want to do is have the option of running the full HDMI signal from the 360 either to the TV directly or through the AV receiver so basically like a 2-1 switch in reverse.

I thought it would be fairly simple but it's been harder to find than I thought.

Skoal Cat

I'm not sure the audio signal can be split from the video signal though, at least with out something fuck all complicated. You want to do something uncommon, so its going to take an uncommon approach. Your best options as far as I can see is to run the audio and video on separate cables or buy a radio.

Joe K

Skoal Cat wrote:

I'm not sure the audio signal can be split from the video signal though, at least with out something fuck all complicated. You want to do something uncommon, so its going to take an uncommon approach. Your best options as far as I can see is to run the audio and video on separate cables or buy a radio.

You actually can split the audio from video, and they sell splitters for fairly cheap. The audio is actually unencrypted and easy to pull off.

What I think that you want is not a splitter, but an aggregator, one that takes 4 HDMI inputs into the receiver, and puts 1 HDMI signal (the active one) out to the TV.

JihadJesus

Well, the receiver does that anyway. But I don't need a splitter; the entire signal (audio & visual) runs to either one or the other.

Let's say I run two HDMI cables, one from the 360 to the receiver and one to the TV. I can do what I want to by just switching the cables depending on what I want to use, but that's a pain. Apparently a switch doesn't exist for this though, which seems crazy to me.

Handgimp

Would just using the optical out from the 360 to your receiver, while running the HDMI to TV and turning off the TV's speakers work for what you want? Then if you want the 360's audio you select that digital input on your receiver, else whichever other audio you want. I feel stupid because I can't understand what you're trying to accomplish.

JihadJesus

It probably would, except that my 360 doesn't have an optical out. I did some digging, and from poking around AV forums (which have entire subforums devoted entirely to HDMI fuckmuppetry) it looks like making a switch like this is actually against the HDMI standards intended to foil piracy. That's fucking insane - it's literally the same thing as just moving the fucking cable manually.

I think what I'll end up doing it purchasing a short M-F HDMI for the lead from the 360, two separate standard cables to the TV and receiver, and then just swapping the connection when I need to. That won't be too bad since I won't have to get behind the unit, but I do have to do that instead of just buying a $5 switch because OMG PIRATES!!!

I wonder how hard it would be to just modify a simple, cheap mechanical 1-2 splitter to reverse the functionality.

Quantux

I do this a lot with my setup, but it only works with the non-digital sources. As in I tune the receiver to the hdmi source for the 360, then to the "TV" source for analog input (headphone to red/white RCA) to listen to music/radio from my phone while I get shot in the face for thinking it was a good idea to go into "The Room" on sword base... For reference, I'm using this system, which is simple and cheap (but perfect for apartments). I would think that higher end stuff would be better, but with all the "protected path" nonsense it may not be...

Handgimp

http://www.amazon.com/Hdmi-Cable-Adapter-Xbox-360/dp/B001S5CCF2

JihadJesus

That looks like it just splits the audio out of the HDMI and move optical, right? so you'd have audio only running to the receiver and the full HDMI to the TV using that, if I'm understanding it right. That'd work for me. I guess it's cheap enough I could get that and the M/F HDMI and just try it out to see what works.

useless4

Do you want both sounds on at the same time? (like npr on the reciever and the xbox sound on the tv)?
If so you want a HDMI Matrix switch.

Run the xbox to it, then run one out to the stereo and one out to the tv.
At this point you can run the xbox thru the stereo AND/OR the TV at the same time.

Then take the stereo and plug it into the other tv input (or to twist your mind slightly back to the matrix switch - treat the stereo as the input and output)

This will allow you to quickly send the output of the stereo (what ever it is) to the tv as well.

Oooooh I might have to try this setup.

bigwah

If you want to just play the xbox while listening to the radio, you dont need anything but to plug the crap in.

deltakiwi

On the same topic kinda.
I just got a sound system and I wana run my 360 through it so i get decent sound.
Can I use a HDMI splitter for that or do I have to run my audio through the sound system or what are my options?

Skoal Cat

360 to receiver, receiver to speakers/TV

Unless by sound system you mean stand alone speakers?

deltakiwi

sweet as thanks