Freelance and Payment

Penguin_Otaku

So I've been doing a bit of freelance here and there as my past threads have indicated.

About a month ago, a friend of mine posted on her Facebook she and the new company she was working for were looking for someone with video editing knowledge/expertise. Being that's what I'm going to school for, I took her up and she got my in contact with them. We met up at their office (which turns out to be the guy's apartment) and sat, got you know each other and talk about what they were looking for and what they wanted.

They told me initially that I would be considered a "consultant" for them instead of a "video editor." I was ok with this, they were going to pay me 10/hr which seemed like a decent enough deal for the workload I would have. I sat there and talked to them for about 3 hours at their apartment and told them I would research what else they needed to make this look professional.

Now I was going to consider telling them to just start from scratch on their equipment and buy a new, professional camera. However, considering they were a startup I put the effort into it to make it affordable to them and save them some money. I got back to them with the information they wanted.

He asked me one more question and then said, "Sorry. We're moving in a different direction. Send us your hours and we'll get you your money." Ok. At least I was going to get paid.

Well, I sent them my hours and they disputed it saying that was way too much. (Six hours was too much for them now..) I reasoned with them and tried to explain what those six hours were (I kept track.) They said they'd give me half. Reluctantly, I agreed and asked them to just mail me a check instead of me driving 30 minutes to pick up the money. That was two weeks ago and I still don't have anything from them.

My friend who got me the gig initially found me at a bar one night and told me her experience was just as sketchy. The lady had hired her for marketing purposes (which she had her degree in.) Initially (as with me) they had simple ideas that seemed manageable. However, as conversations went on they were wanting us to be their creative team to create some viral videos that would shock YouTube and make everyone aware of their companies. Well, both of us knew that was a pretty tall order and we tried to make that apparent to them.

Anyway, I live in Oklahoma and I don't know how to go about this. Yea, it's just $30 but it's the principal of the thing at this point. I feel used especially after he made sure to ask me one more question before canning me.

TychoCelchuuu

You could sue in small claims court? I mean, like you've said, it's $30, and frankly that's a really, really good price for learning to always get a contract signed before doing stuff like this. Consider yourself extremely lucky.

spool32

Once again, if it's not on paper it didn't happen. Consider this your lesson learned... if you don't have a contract, on paper, with a rate, hours, and a schedule of work, and hopefully a scope of work (since you're just consulting)... then it just. didn't. happen.

Next time, get a contract. Even a single sheet of paper with names, signatures, and the hourly rate would work. But you have to have something written down, or else You Have Nothing.

Darkewolfe

Get a contract. Always get that contract. Get a contract.

(This is a video of a speech by Mike Monteiro called "Fuck you pay me." It's a good watch.)

oldsak

spool32 wrote:

Once again, if it's not on paper it didn't happen. Consider this your lesson learned... if you don't have a contract, on paper, with a rate, hours, and a schedule of work, and hopefully a scope of work (since you're just consulting)... then it just. didn't. happen.

Next time, get a contract. Even a single sheet of paper with names, signatures, and the hourly rate would work. But you have to have something written down, or else You Have Nothing.

Did you discuss any of this over email? If you did you could try using those as evidence if you want to go the small claims route.

Edit. Keep in mind that the filing costs for small claims court might be most of your $30.

Have you tried calling them and saying, "Hey it's been 2 weeks and I still haven't gotten my check"?

saltiness

This stuff happens when you do freelance work. As others have said, get things in writing. Be happy they only owe you $30 and not $3,000.

Skoal Cat

Penguin_Otaku wrote:

Now I was going to consider telling them to just start from scratch on their equipment and buy a new, professional camera. However, considering they were a startup I put the effort into it to make it affordable to them and save them some money. I got back to them with the information they wanted.

If they didn't ask you to research used equipment, something which will take longer than not, you can't/shouldn't bill them for that time. You should always give a rough estimate of hours to complete X projects (and then probably double your initial guess).

Suzuka Grey

What if your client is overseas and decides he does not want to pay $1000+ dollars?

Penguin_Otaku

I did email them after I posted this and got a pretty curt email back telling me to drop my "attitude." It was a simple email that said "Hey, haven't heard back from you guys yet."

Didn't find any snark/attitude within, but I guess he did. So.. who knows. But yea, I have a friend who does video work for a minor league hockey team and they're still paying him for a contract that was supposed to be paid off in May.

Thanks for the advice guys.

Jasconius

Your first mistake was accepting any "freelance" job for 10 dollars an hour.

You do understand that after "taxes" and all of the absent benefits from being what is basically an under-the-table employee that you're almost definitely working for below minimum wage.

Move on with your life. You got screwed by people who were looking for technical labor for slave wage. Learn from the experience and make better decisions next time.

I wouldn't have paid you 60 dollars either. You sat in someones living room and chit-chatted, then surfed the web for a bit to research a camera for them.

You are lucky they even called you back.

You are a dope if you litigate this.

*edit*

Unless you want to take it to Judge Judy for a two hundred dollar appearance fee, which is the only way you're going to see any money out of this.

Penguin_Otaku

Nah, I don't plan on litigating - it's not worth the trouble. But I was curious for future reference what I might do.

They told me to count the entire time I was there, so I did.

Angel_of_Bacon

$30 is a cheap price to pay for learning that offering to take paltry sums of money for non-contracted freelance work from random yahoos with no professional experience or financial backing is not a very smart way to conduct yourself as a professional freelancer. I can say this because I lost $1000+ learning the same thing on my first freelance gig.

Getting up in arms over the cost of a Blu-ray seems unbelievably petty on both sides. It's Nickelodeon Kids Court territory. Go get another gig with a legitimate enterprise that knows what the standard work rate is and therefore doesn't flinch at paying it (I cannot imagine video editors in general get by on less than they could make (after taxes) working at McDonald's), earn that $30 in an hour or two instead of 6, and forget about this BS.

Dhalphir

Already said, but to make sure you realise the importance. If you are going to do freelance work, have everything written down. Everything. No exceptions.

Jasconius

And don't "meet" in an apartment.

As an aside, you should not even pick up the phone for freelance work for less than $15/hr no matter how inexperienced you are.

Blake T

Suzuka Grey wrote:

What if your client is overseas and decides he does not want to pay $1000+ dollars?

If your client is overseas and is outside legal jurisdiction then you get money up front.

If a client is new you demand CoD. You do not give them your results until they have paid.

bowen

You shouldn't give a client anything until they've paid, no matter who they are. I've seen local businesses (big to the local area) fuck people over this way too even though they've got money to spare. Half up front and half when the project is finished is usually my stipulations. This way I don't get fucked if you decide to screw the pooch (as bad) and it keeps people honest.

If they don't want to pay up front chances are they didn't want to pay you at all. "But you're a freelance!"

Suzuka Grey

And even if you sign a contract what if a client doesn't honor it?

bowen

Suzuka Grey wrote:

And even if you sign a contract what if a client doesn't honor it?

If they're local you can go to court and sue them.

If they're out of the country, you should've gotten payment before delivery so you don't have to deal with it.

So long as you upheld your end of the bargain, it's pretty much a formality to go to court. The key here is documentation. The only way it wouldn't work is if you delivered them some subpar product. Even if they don't use it, they still have to pay you for it.

spool32

You guys really should watch that video Darkewolfe linked to. It has answered every question in the thread, in clearer and better ways than we have.

In fact, that video ought to be stickied as the default answer to all "I did freelance and $bad_thing, what do I do?"

bowen

spool32 wrote:

You guys really should watch that video Darkewolfe linked to. It has answered every question in the thread, in clearer and better ways than we have.

In fact, that video ought to be stickied as the default answer to all "I did freelance and $bad_thing, what do I do?"

Lime.

RadicalTurnip

I agree with what everyone has said...but, that being said...there really is no reason you should just "drop it". I mean, send a few more emails, make a phone call or two. You probably will never see this $30, but there's no reason not to try a little harder to get it.

bowen

Also if you want to be a righteous ... dick I guess would be the word. Take them to small claims court. Pay the money to file. This way there's a record of them being a jerk for nonpayment. Who knows, you might even be able to wring court costs from them. If it's cut and dry and you have a record of email correspondence of some sort for your expertise and have a witness.

Best case, you get like $30+($30-60 court costs) for your trouble. Worst case you lose a bit more to file. If you have absolutely nothing but word of mouth and no witnesses though, you're fucked.