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[Airbender] The legend of Korra: I am the solution.

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Posts

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    This is more like removing someone's ability to use technology by rewiring part of their brain, in a world where normal people already have their brains wired that way.

    Amon is the ultimate jock, making sure that everyone is equally unable to use the internet.

    I'd compare it to something like Deus Ex.

    People can literally make guns part of their body. And that's fine. But if they go around shooting people I'm not going to be torn up about removing the gun if it doesn't harm them.

    Sure. But it's not something to be done at all lightly.

    Never said it should be.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    They talk about it in the last episode of TLA. Coupled with what Iroh says about bending, it's not exactly a leap.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Pretty sure Ozai was insane to begin with.

  • The_TuninatorThe_Tuninator Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I haven't read the comics, but from what I understand of them Ozai is still doing swimmingly in the sanity and mental health departments despite having his ability to bend forcibly removed.

    Yes but in their world it's the Avatar's purpose to bring balance, and Aang refused to kill, so he had to do the next best thing. Amon has none of that guidance or authority. And it is still removing (or at the very least blocking, since I have my doubts that Amon is actually energybending) a part of a person's spirit.

    Right, but Aang's purpose has nothing to do with the effects of removing bending from a person, which is what I'm getting at.

    If Ozai, one of the most powerful benders in the world, lost his bending and hasn't suffered any appreciable mental damage as a result, I don't think it can really be equated to lopping off a key part of a person's soul, since they can evidently deal with the loss and move past it.
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    This is more like removing someone's ability to use technology by rewiring part of their brain, in a world where normal people already have their brains wired that way.

    Amon is the ultimate jock, making sure that everyone is equally unable to use the internet.

    I'd compare it to something like Deus Ex.

    People can literally make guns part of their body. And that's fine. But if they go around shooting people I'm not going to be torn up about removing the gun if it doesn't harm them.

    Sure. But it's not something to be done at all lightly.

    Oh, I don't doubt that Amon is going to cross the line, and soon.

    I just have no problem with him taking away the bending of abusive criminals, is all.

    The_Tuninator on
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    The Earth King was not a bender as far as I'm aware, and neither were the higher-ups of the Water Tribes at the time of TLA.

    Thus, it's interesting that the leadership of Republic City seems to have a significant bender contingent.

    What's really interesting is that the governing body of Republic City appears to be comprised entirely of foreign delegates appointed by the various Nations. Republic City doesn't seem to have elective government, which also goes a long way toward explaining non-bender unrest.

    I read Republic City as being a combination UN/Vatican, rather than a true independent sovereign state. Lowish levels of democracy make sense in such an environment.

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    They talk about it in the last episode of TLA. Coupled with what Iroh says about bending, it's not exactly a leap.

    So long as you ignore it's never stated one needs more chi to bend or people like the Guru.

    Given I don't intend to do that I'm hardly going to accept benders lose chi when they lose their bending.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Quid wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    They talk about it in the last episode of TLA. Coupled with what Iroh says about bending, it's not exactly a leap.

    So long as you ignore it's never stated one needs more chi to bend or people like the Guru.

    Given I don't intend to do that I'm hardly going to accept benders lose chi when they lose their bending.

    You don't need more chi, it is an expression of your chi. So when they lose the ability to bend, it's more like they lose a tongue to speak with than losing a hand or something.

    Fencingsax on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Man, if you were a concert pianist would you be really fucking upset if someone magically took away your musical skills? Hell fucking yes. It is a mutilation. It is part of that person and they are removing it.

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  • The_TuninatorThe_Tuninator Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Also, regarding the removal of bending:

    It's important to note that the removal of one's bending ability is presented as the moral option in the series finale. If, in the eyes of the creators, this really does amount to horrible mindrape which leaves the individual better off dead, I imagine they would have had Aang question whether he had the right to do that to a greater degree.

    The_Tuninator on
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    They talk about it in the last episode of TLA. Coupled with what Iroh says about bending, it's not exactly a leap.

    So long as you ignore it's never stated one needs more chi to bend or people like the Guru.

    Given I don't intend to do that I'm hardly going to accept benders lose chi when they lose their bending.

    You don't need more chi, it is an expression of your chi. So when they lose the ability to bend, it's more like they lose a tongue to speak with than losing a hand or something.

    No their body is still fully there. They just can't use magic to abuse people.

    Stop trying to attach it to body parts to make it sound more vital. It's not.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Also, regarding the removal of bending:

    It's important to note that the removal of one's bending ability is presented as the moral option in the series finale. If, in the eyes of the creators, this really does amount to horrible mindrape which leaves the individual better off dead, I imagine they would have had Aang question whether he had the right to do that to a greater degree.

    It's a moral option as opposed to killing, and the choice is made by a pacifist who refuses to kill, but recognizes that Ozai cannot be left alone. The context of the war is kinda important. Also, as I said Aang is specifically there to balance out the world he inhabits.

    Fencingsax on
  • The_TuninatorThe_Tuninator Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Also, regarding the removal of bending:

    It's important to note that the removal of one's bending ability is presented as the moral option in the series finale. If, in the eyes of the creators, this really does amount to horrible mindrape which leaves the individual better off dead, I imagine they would have had Aang question whether he had the right to do that to a greater degree.

    It's a moral option as opposed to killing, and the choice is made by a pacifist who refuses to kill, but recognizes that Ozai cannot be left alone. The context of the war is kinda important. Also, as I said Aang is specifically there to balance out the world he inhabits.

    Once again, though, the fact that he's there to bring balance has nothing at all to do with what the aftereffects on Ozai are going to be.

    If it's such a base and vile mutilation of the human soul, chi, or what have you, why didn't they address the ramifications of such at all? The whole rest of the episode was comprised of remarkably deep moral questions; it's not like it would've been out of place.

    The_Tuninator on
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Man, if you were a concert pianist would you be really fucking upset if someone magically took away your musical skills? Hell fucking yes. It is a mutilation. It is part of that person and they are removing it.

    If you're a sword master who's dedicated their life to butchering and taking advantage of others I have no problem magicking away your ability.

    You people really need to stop with this false equivalence. A person with magic powers, who used those magic powers to steal from and hurt people, had those magic powers away.

    This was not a man losing a leg. This was not blinding a little girl. This was not needlessly taking away someone's musical ability. The man hurt and more than likely killed people using his powers. There's not issue in taking them away.

    Quid on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Quid wrote: »
    Man, if you were a concert pianist would you be really fucking upset if someone magically took away your musical skills? Hell fucking yes. It is a mutilation. It is part of that person and they are removing it.

    If you're a sword master who's dedicated their life to butchering and taking advantage of others I have no problem magicking away your ability.

    You people really need to stop with this false equivalence. A person with magic powers, who used those magic powers to steal from and hurt people, had those magic powers away.

    This was not a man losing a leg. This was not blinding a little girl. This was needlessly not taking away someone's musical ability. The man hurt and more than likely killed people using his powers. There's not issue in taking them away.

    Ok, so at what point is it over the line? Do they have to actually kill someone? Or should people learning to control it be permanently punished for accidentally hurting someone? Where is the line exactly? And if there isn't one, why does Amon, who clearly has his own agenda, get to decide where it is?

    Fencingsax on
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Also, regarding the removal of bending:

    It's important to note that the removal of one's bending ability is presented as the moral option in the series finale. If, in the eyes of the creators, this really does amount to horrible mindrape which leaves the individual better off dead, I imagine they would have had Aang question whether he had the right to do that to a greater degree.

    It's a moral option as opposed to killing, and the choice is made by a pacifist who refuses to kill, but recognizes that Ozai cannot be left alone. The context of the war is kinda important. Also, as I said Aang is specifically there to balance out the world he inhabits.

    So? What does that being the Avatar's job have to do with what Amon's doing? It's never said only the Avatar is allowed to do it.

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Man, if you were a concert pianist would you be really fucking upset if someone magically took away your musical skills? Hell fucking yes. It is a mutilation. It is part of that person and they are removing it.

    If you're a sword master who's dedicated their life to butchering and taking advantage of others I have no problem magicking away your ability.

    You people really need to stop with this false equivalence. A person with magic powers, who used those magic powers to steal from and hurt people, had those magic powers away.

    This was not a man losing a leg. This was not blinding a little girl. This was needlessly not taking away someone's musical ability. The man hurt and more than likely killed people using his powers. There's not issue in taking them away.

    Ok, so at what point is it over the line?

    Not yet. Which is all I've ever said. Period. Full stop. I do not think the action Amon took on that stage were unreasonable. This has nothing to do with any possible future actions he may or may not take. Which, again, I've said.

  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    One thing I find amusing about the TOS is the episode where Toph does scamming. You would think that a lot of these games would have dealt with Earth benders in the past, and be more suspicious when someone mysteriously won.

  • BehemothBehemoth Compulsive Seashell Collector Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Quid wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Man, if you were a concert pianist would you be really fucking upset if someone magically took away your musical skills? Hell fucking yes. It is a mutilation. It is part of that person and they are removing it.

    If you're a sword master who's dedicated their life to butchering and taking advantage of others I have no problem magicking away your ability.

    You people really need to stop with this false equivalence. A person with magic powers, who used those magic powers to steal from and hurt people, had those magic powers away.

    This was not a man losing a leg. This was not blinding a little girl. This was needlessly not taking away someone's musical ability. The man hurt and more than likely killed people using his powers. There's not issue in taking them away.

    Ok, so at what point is it over the line?

    Not yet. Which is all I've ever said. Period. Full stop. I do not think the action Amon took on that stage were unreasonable. This has nothing to do with any possible future actions he may or may not take. Which, again, I've said.

    They're unreasonable because it's mob justice and vigilantism. It's all very well to take away the bending of violent criminals if they're tried in a fair court of law or something. That would actually make a lot of sense for the setting. But just grabbing a bunch of people and beating them up as a demonstration, even if some of them were gangsters, is hardly "reasonable". Really, it comes down to the same arguments that Amon is probably using against benders in general. What gives him the right to decide who should have their bending taken away? He is wielding the same fascistic power over them that they are supposedly wielding over him.

    Whether or not it's the same as being crippled or whatever, you have to agree that it's a harm to have your magic taken away when you've been using and relying on it all your life. Can I go around shooting people so long as I only shoot people who would get the death penalty if they were arrested and tried anyway?

    Go watch the movie M.

    Behemoth on
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  • The_TuninatorThe_Tuninator Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    One thing I find amusing about the TOS is the episode where Toph does scamming. You would think that a lot of these games would have dealt with Earth benders in the past, and be more suspicious when someone mysteriously won.

    That actually doesn't bother me much. They're deep in the heart of the Fire Nation, and considering that the Hundred Years' War has been raging for, well, a hundred years, it's not like Earth Nation tourists are a common sight around those parts.
    Behemoth wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Man, if you were a concert pianist would you be really fucking upset if someone magically took away your musical skills? Hell fucking yes. It is a mutilation. It is part of that person and they are removing it.

    If you're a sword master who's dedicated their life to butchering and taking advantage of others I have no problem magicking away your ability.

    You people really need to stop with this false equivalence. A person with magic powers, who used those magic powers to steal from and hurt people, had those magic powers away.

    This was not a man losing a leg. This was not blinding a little girl. This was needlessly not taking away someone's musical ability. The man hurt and more than likely killed people using his powers. There's not issue in taking them away.

    Ok, so at what point is it over the line?

    Not yet. Which is all I've ever said. Period. Full stop. I do not think the action Amon took on that stage were unreasonable. This has nothing to do with any possible future actions he may or may not take. Which, again, I've said.

    They're unreasonable because it's mob justice and vigilantism. It's all very well to take away the bending of violent criminals if they're tried in a fair court of law or something. That would actually make a lot of sense for the setting. But just grabbing a bunch of people and beating them up as a demonstration, even if some of them were gangsters, is hardly "reasonable". Really, it comes down to the same arguments that Amon is probably using against benders in general. What gives him the right to decide who should have their bending taken away? He is wielding the same fascistic power of them that they are supposedly wielding over him.

    Not that I disagree with the base principle of what you're getting at here, but is it really that unreasonable for citizens to take justice into their own hands if the police are, by all evidence, unable or unwilling to suppress a widespread and serious gang problem?

    That's not to address the morals behind it, of course, but I think the non-bender reaction to endemic bender gang violence and extortion in Republic City is pretty understandable.

    The_Tuninator on
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    One thing I find amusing about the TOS is the episode where Toph does scamming. You would think that a lot of these games would have dealt with Earth benders in the past, and be more suspicious when someone mysteriously won.

    That actually doesn't bother me much. They're deep in the heart of the Fire Nation, and considering that the Hundred Years' War has been raging for, well, a hundred years, it's not like Earth Nation tourists are a common sight around those parts.
    Behemoth wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Man, if you were a concert pianist would you be really fucking upset if someone magically took away your musical skills? Hell fucking yes. It is a mutilation. It is part of that person and they are removing it.

    If you're a sword master who's dedicated their life to butchering and taking advantage of others I have no problem magicking away your ability.

    You people really need to stop with this false equivalence. A person with magic powers, who used those magic powers to steal from and hurt people, had those magic powers away.

    This was not a man losing a leg. This was not blinding a little girl. This was needlessly not taking away someone's musical ability. The man hurt and more than likely killed people using his powers. There's not issue in taking them away.

    Ok, so at what point is it over the line?

    Not yet. Which is all I've ever said. Period. Full stop. I do not think the action Amon took on that stage were unreasonable. This has nothing to do with any possible future actions he may or may not take. Which, again, I've said.

    They're unreasonable because it's mob justice and vigilantism. It's all very well to take away the bending of violent criminals if they're tried in a fair court of law or something. That would actually make a lot of sense for the setting. But just grabbing a bunch of people and beating them up as a demonstration, even if some of them were gangsters, is hardly "reasonable". Really, it comes down to the same arguments that Amon is probably using against benders in general. What gives him the right to decide who should have their bending taken away? He is wielding the same fascistic power of them that they are supposedly wielding over him.

    Not that I disagree with the base principle of what you're getting at here, but is it really that unreasonable for citizens to take justice into their own hands if the police are, by all evidence, unable or unwilling to suppress a widespread and serious gang problem?

    Ding ding ding ding!

    Vigilantism in general is bad. But sometimes it's the only choice a person or people have when the system in place to protect them continually fails.

    Oh and this:
    Can I go around shooting people so long as I only shoot people who would get the death penalty if they were arrested and tried anyway?

    Nope! So it's a good thing that's not at all what happened huh?!

  • BehemothBehemoth Compulsive Seashell Collector Registered User regular
    One thing I find amusing about the TOS is the episode where Toph does scamming. You would think that a lot of these games would have dealt with Earth benders in the past, and be more suspicious when someone mysteriously won.

    That actually doesn't bother me much. They're deep in the heart of the Fire Nation, and considering that the Hundred Years' War has been raging for, well, a hundred years, it's not like Earth Nation tourists are a common sight around those parts.
    Behemoth wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Man, if you were a concert pianist would you be really fucking upset if someone magically took away your musical skills? Hell fucking yes. It is a mutilation. It is part of that person and they are removing it.

    If you're a sword master who's dedicated their life to butchering and taking advantage of others I have no problem magicking away your ability.

    You people really need to stop with this false equivalence. A person with magic powers, who used those magic powers to steal from and hurt people, had those magic powers away.

    This was not a man losing a leg. This was not blinding a little girl. This was needlessly not taking away someone's musical ability. The man hurt and more than likely killed people using his powers. There's not issue in taking them away.

    Ok, so at what point is it over the line?

    Not yet. Which is all I've ever said. Period. Full stop. I do not think the action Amon took on that stage were unreasonable. This has nothing to do with any possible future actions he may or may not take. Which, again, I've said.

    They're unreasonable because it's mob justice and vigilantism. It's all very well to take away the bending of violent criminals if they're tried in a fair court of law or something. That would actually make a lot of sense for the setting. But just grabbing a bunch of people and beating them up as a demonstration, even if some of them were gangsters, is hardly "reasonable". Really, it comes down to the same arguments that Amon is probably using against benders in general. What gives him the right to decide who should have their bending taken away? He is wielding the same fascistic power of them that they are supposedly wielding over him.

    Not that I disagree with the base principle of what you're getting at here, but is it really that unreasonable for citizens to take justice into their own hands if the police are, by all evidence, unable or unwilling to suppress a widespread and serious gang problem?

    That's not to address the morals behind it, of course, but I think the non-bender reaction to endemic bender gang violence and extortion in Republic City is pretty understandable.

    Oh, it's completely understandable. It's super cathartic and crowd-pleasing. It's just not reasonable, nor should it be considered morally acceptable. Vigilante/mob justice is never the answer.

    Seriously, guys. Watch M.

    iQbUbQsZXyt8I.png
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    I'm well aware of the problems that can arise from vigilantism. That does not, however, make it wrong in every single instance ever.

    Also you must be a real downer to see any super hero movie with.

  • The_TuninatorThe_Tuninator Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Behemoth wrote: »
    One thing I find amusing about the TOS is the episode where Toph does scamming. You would think that a lot of these games would have dealt with Earth benders in the past, and be more suspicious when someone mysteriously won.

    That actually doesn't bother me much. They're deep in the heart of the Fire Nation, and considering that the Hundred Years' War has been raging for, well, a hundred years, it's not like Earth Nation tourists are a common sight around those parts.
    Behemoth wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Man, if you were a concert pianist would you be really fucking upset if someone magically took away your musical skills? Hell fucking yes. It is a mutilation. It is part of that person and they are removing it.

    If you're a sword master who's dedicated their life to butchering and taking advantage of others I have no problem magicking away your ability.

    You people really need to stop with this false equivalence. A person with magic powers, who used those magic powers to steal from and hurt people, had those magic powers away.

    This was not a man losing a leg. This was not blinding a little girl. This was needlessly not taking away someone's musical ability. The man hurt and more than likely killed people using his powers. There's not issue in taking them away.

    Ok, so at what point is it over the line?

    Not yet. Which is all I've ever said. Period. Full stop. I do not think the action Amon took on that stage were unreasonable. This has nothing to do with any possible future actions he may or may not take. Which, again, I've said.

    They're unreasonable because it's mob justice and vigilantism. It's all very well to take away the bending of violent criminals if they're tried in a fair court of law or something. That would actually make a lot of sense for the setting. But just grabbing a bunch of people and beating them up as a demonstration, even if some of them were gangsters, is hardly "reasonable". Really, it comes down to the same arguments that Amon is probably using against benders in general. What gives him the right to decide who should have their bending taken away? He is wielding the same fascistic power of them that they are supposedly wielding over him.

    Not that I disagree with the base principle of what you're getting at here, but is it really that unreasonable for citizens to take justice into their own hands if the police are, by all evidence, unable or unwilling to suppress a widespread and serious gang problem?

    That's not to address the morals behind it, of course, but I think the non-bender reaction to endemic bender gang violence and extortion in Republic City is pretty understandable.

    Oh, it's completely understandable. It's super cathartic and crowd-pleasing. It's just not reasonable, nor should it be considered morally acceptable. Vigilante/mob justice is never the answer.

    Seriously, guys. Watch M.



    If it's not the answer in this situation, what is? Waiting for the police to help?

    The police apparently
    can conduct brutal raids on Equalist training facilities but can't be bothered to take a jaunt by the Triple-Threat Triad's headquarters or have boots on the ground to keep gangsters from extorting local citizens.

    Hell, the original series often employs notions of vigilante justice; the Aang Gang follows this practice more than once.

    Also, can we all appreciate how awesome it is that a show which is ostensibly a kid's cartoon has pushed its notions of relative morality this far? Absolutely fantastic.

    The_Tuninator on
  • BehemothBehemoth Compulsive Seashell Collector Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Quid wrote: »
    I'm well aware of the problems that can arise from vigilantism. That does not, however, make it wrong in every single instance ever.

    Also you must be a real downer to see any super hero movie with.

    Superheroes generally incapacitate people and leave them to the police, if possible. Batman doesn't imprison criminals. Not exactly the same thing. You keep trying to isolate the specific incident of de-bending a gang lord, but try to see the whole event in context. He's inciting violent retribution against all benders and holding up a ganglord as an example. The only thing worse than vigilante justice done in a back alley is vigilante justice done in front of a screaming crowd urging it on.

    Behemoth on
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  • The_TuninatorThe_Tuninator Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Behemoth wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    I'm well aware of the problems that can arise from vigilantism. That does not, however, make it wrong in every single instance ever.

    Also you must be a real downer to see any super hero movie with.

    Superheroes generally incapacitate people and leave them to the police, if possible. Batman doesn't imprison criminals. Not exactly the same thing. You keep trying to isolate the specific incident of de-bending a gang lord, but try to see the whole event in context. He's inciting violent retribution against all benders and holding up a ganglord as an example. The only thing worse than vigilante justice done in a back alley is vigilante justice done in front of a screaming crowd urging it on.

    Leaving them for the police doesn't mean that it's not vigilante justice.

    I'm not arguing that Amon isn't crossing the line by urging retaliation against all benders, by the way. For all his moral relativity, the man is still obviously the villain. I just do not think that the specific act of depowering a notorious gang lord was uncalled for. Everything else, I am not behind.

    The_Tuninator on
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    No but see Tun if you're okay with that then how can you be against things that are actually terrible?!

    Like, you know, a guy killing people and extorting them for money. Oh and let's not forget those people's children that'll be going hungry.

    You've got to have principles, man. Just wait for the police who don't care to show up.

    You know, while the kids starve.

  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Quid wrote: »
    If we lived in a world where everyone had one leg and you were born with two, is cutting off that second leg any less crippling to you?
    They have an ability.
    Forcibly removing that ability, whether it puts them on par with everyone else or not, is crippling.

    Wowza. So anyone who's not a bender is crippled.

    Edit: I will also add it's kind of insulting to say someone who has full use of their body is now crippled.

    "Cripple" is a relative term that depends on one's appendages and abilities. A bird that is crippled cannot fly. You are not crippled because you cannot fly. A person who is a brilliant mathematician can be crippled by a stroke, even if it just makes him as capable as a normal person. You are not crippled because you are bad at math.

    Impairing a person or a thing is crippling that person or thing.

    This isn't to say whether it's wrong to cripple people or not, and you might have your own understanding of "cripple" that doesn't jive with more common understandings, but perhaps you shouldn't say it's "kind of insulting to say someone who has full use of their body is now crippled" given the popular understanding.

    Loren Michael on
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  • BehemothBehemoth Compulsive Seashell Collector Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    No but see Tun if you're okay with that then how can you be against things that are actually terrible?!

    Like, you know, a guy killing people and extorting them for money. Oh and let's not forget those people's children that'll be going hungry.

    You've got to have principles, man. Just wait for the police who don't care to show up.

    You know, while the kids starve.

    *sigh*

    Yeah, okay.

    Go Amon! Get rid of all those terrible, oppressive benders! Throw out the corrupt city government and replace the police with your private paramilitary group!

    Wooooooo!

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Y'all been arguing about this all night! :O

    Lets look at it this way; we can assume Zolt needed his firebending to become a crime lord. When a guy's capable of generating lightning, seems like that's all he'd need to get where he was. So we can further assume that he doesn't have anything else going for him, he gets by on his power and respect. Removing his bending leaves him with nothing, he's over.

    In real life, we'd find proof of him doing something illegal and put him in prison. What Amon did is the equivalent of cutting a thief's hand off, to make sure he never stole again (yeah, some o' ya think there's a huge distinction between losing spirit and losing physical mass, but eh - same thing imo) The morally good thing to do would have been to chi block him, then take him to a fireproof prison.

    I am absolutely all for chi blocking though - make it mandatory, all non-benders should learn it at school while the bender are off learning their thang. Make chi blocking legal, and give every non-bender the same opportunity that bender's get to learn it, then that puts everyone on an even ground. There's always gonna be outliers, sure - people like Ty Lee who could stop an army of benders, or people like Iroh and Azula who could level a city, but they're the masters, it's not fair to judge what they could do to a normal person, because a normal bender (as far as I know :P) is about on par with those bending thugs we saw in the first ep. That is to say, no big threat at all.

    Dark Raven X on
    Oh brilliant
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Also, regarding the removal of bending:

    It's important to note that the removal of one's bending ability is presented as the moral option in the series finale. If, in the eyes of the creators, this really does amount to horrible mindrape which leaves the individual better off dead, I imagine they would have had Aang question whether he had the right to do that to a greater degree.
    The other option was to outright kill him. It wasn't even presented as a moral choice. Aang simply had code he lived by which stated that he shouldn't kill, and he was trying to find a way around that, but even his past lives were telling him "Sometimes killing is necessary".

  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    So about the movie. Out of the storylines to include from season 1, why the prison scene? Even if you ignore how bad that scene was, it still doesn't seem like an effective use of time.

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    I'm well aware of the problems that can arise from vigilantism. That does not, however, make it wrong in every single instance ever.

    Also you must be a real downer to see any super hero movie with.

    "Batman took away Mr. Freeze's freeze gun? That's terrible! Freezing is a large part of that man's essence of being. How dare Batman take away Mr. Freeze's ability to freeze - I want a refund on this movie ticket!"

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    I'm well aware of the problems that can arise from vigilantism. That does not, however, make it wrong in every single instance ever.

    Also you must be a real downer to see any super hero movie with.

    "Batman took away Mr. Freeze's freeze gun? That's terrible! Freezing is a large part of that man's essence of being. How dare Batman take away Mr. Freeze's ability to freeze - I want a refund on this movie ticket!"

    Your analogy won't work with super-villains reliant on technology for powers. Green Goblin, Magneto or Voldemort are better examples.

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    And guess what? A common plot device for containing supervillains in prisons in comic book movies is some sort of, gasp, power blocker. Often it is in the shape of a collar.

  • EvilOtakuEvilOtaku Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    And guess what? A common plot device for containing supervillains in prisons in comic book movies is some sort of, gasp, power blocker. Often it is in the shape of a collar.

    But only after the due process of the law

  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    Does anyone know when Korra is replayed other than again on Saturday? Nick's website sucks and doesn't just have a schedule as far as I can tell.

  • The_TuninatorThe_Tuninator Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Also, regarding the removal of bending:

    It's important to note that the removal of one's bending ability is presented as the moral option in the series finale. If, in the eyes of the creators, this really does amount to horrible mindrape which leaves the individual better off dead, I imagine they would have had Aang question whether he had the right to do that to a greater degree.
    The other option was to outright kill him. It wasn't even presented as a moral choice. Aang simply had code he lived by which stated that he shouldn't kill, and he was trying to find a way around that, but even his past lives were telling him "Sometimes killing is necessary".

    Again, though, if removing someone's ability to bend is a base and vile mutilation of their spirit, why wasn't this discussed? The rest of Sozin's Comet was jam-packed with moral contemplation; it would hardly have been out of place.

    The_Tuninator on
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    It was given to him by a Lion Turtle, and that's the only thing he interacted with re: energy bending. It is entirely possible that Lion Turtles ain't give a shit about moral relativism. ;D

    Oh brilliant
  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Are people actually arguing about the efficiency of the police that got to the scene of a crime literally five seconds after it occurred?

    We know nothing about the Republic police except some of them ride in blimps. Its stupid to say they're corrupt and inefficient based on the available information.

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Okay Quid, I can see what you're saying, I think. I think my problem with it is that I was assuming you were arguing with the knowledge that it's not always going to be bender crimebosses on that stage. Because scapegoating like this never stops there. Now, I disagree with you in whether Amon is in the right to do what he did to Zolt, but I can at least see that where you stand is somewhat reasonable.

This discussion has been closed.