I don't even know why they bothered with a texas history textbook, all you have to do is drive down the road and find a bronze plaque where someone 'important' took a shit
I found one of those signs once. I dug a hole but didn't find any feces. I didn't want the next person to share my sadness, so I took a dump there and buried it.
I don't think they're particularly embellished, it's more that the ones that are put on the front page are chosen because they're the more outlandish ones.
However it does raise an interesting point about QA in general, even software QA.
While yes, an easy work-around could be put in place to avoid the immediate issue, such as disabling user-input at that point, the problem is that the defect is still there. They just happen to have found one permutation of it.
The fault in the code still exists. So that means it can still happen elsewhere, and they just haven't found it yet. This is why QA is so much more than "does it work?".
Well yes, it works under these parameters, I can verify that yes it does what was designed.
However under ALL THESE parameters, I can't verify. As my team can only test so much, and when a fix goes in, guess what? You start over. QA's job is never, ever done. What may take a developer 15 minutes to fix, can take QA 3 weeks to verify.
When they decide to ship has no bearing on whether QA is done. Because we'll never be done. Ever.
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HunterChemist with a heart of AuRegistered Userregular
That story is pretty much SOP for many industries. Game companies just have a cycle of development to launch that comes and goes with launching of titles. After launch, fire all the extra people to get back to a lean running crew until you need that much game testing again for a different product nearing launch. Hire back up. Lather rinse repeat.
Many companies build up employees near crunch times or during busy seasons. The minerals industry gets lots of orders for the spring and summer (construction season) so they need a lot of operators and people in the processing or bagging end, and then at the end of fall through winter people are laid off by the droves.
I heard a story very similar to this when I worked as a tester at Microsoft. The guy in that story got fired primarily for bricking two devkits, not so much finding the issue (which I understand got patched out later).
It's one of those things that becomes legend over time.
My wondering mind is entertaining thoughts of shady suits for AAA software companies ordering hits on hapless testers who have discovered these flaws and must be silenced AT ALL COST.
I guess the thing I don't understand, and maybe I'm just missing something, is why not contract these extra testers? I mean, that way you're not actually firing them, you're hiring them to test/QA a certain project, and when that project is done, well, their contract is over. People who do a particularly good job (like this guy, imo) get prioritized for future projects, since he obviously found a pretty major bug and, had he found it early enough, he could have actually been a huge benefit to have.
My wondering mind is entertaining thoughts of shady suits for AAA software companies ordering hits on hapless testers who have discovered these flaws and must be silenced AT ALL COST.
imagine anyone who quits a job at blizzard and knew about diablo3 or starcraft2 prior to their announcements
I guess the thing I don't understand, and maybe I'm just missing something, is why not contract these extra testers? I mean, that way you're not actually firing them, you're hiring them to test/QA a certain project, and when that project is done, well, their contract is over. People who do a particularly good job (like this guy, imo) get prioritized for future projects, since he obviously found a pretty major bug and, had he found it early enough, he could have actually been a huge benefit to have.
...or is that sort of how it works already?
a contract ending doesn't have the same kind of soul-crushing impact that being fired does, and really that's what head office is looking for
I guess the thing I don't understand, and maybe I'm just missing something, is why not contract these extra testers? I mean, that way you're not actually firing them, you're hiring them to test/QA a certain project, and when that project is done, well, their contract is over. People who do a particularly good job (like this guy, imo) get prioritized for future projects, since he obviously found a pretty major bug and, had he found it early enough, he could have actually been a huge benefit to have.
...or is that sort of how it works already?
I would guess that's how a lot of QA positions work, and them being "fired" just means they weren't kept on/moved to another project
I know at our office we don't have nearly enough work to keep a full-time test staff, so all of our testers are project-based and we make that crystal clear when we do the hiring.
I guess the thing I don't understand, and maybe I'm just missing something, is why not contract these extra testers? I mean, that way you're not actually firing them, you're hiring them to test/QA a certain project, and when that project is done, well, their contract is over. People who do a particularly good job (like this guy, imo) get prioritized for future projects, since he obviously found a pretty major bug and, had he found it early enough, he could have actually been a huge benefit to have.
...or is that sort of how it works already?
That's exactly how it works.
Him saying he was "fired" is just the standard amount of bitterness and jaded view from anyone who has been laid off after giving 110% and getting dumped.
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HunterChemist with a heart of AuRegistered Userregular
edited August 2011
Also, not to burst anyone's bubble and you are all truly special snowflakes, but companies always say "we're going to keep the best and if you work hard well then, be prepared to buy a new truck to haul your hard earned cash money out of here".
It's a lie. Not all the time. Only like 98% of the time. You could cure cancer with net code or I could solve world hunger with calcium carbonate, and that would be great...but uh, we need to trim expenses and you're skill set is no longer needed.
because there will always be someone smarter, willing to work for less.
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HunterChemist with a heart of AuRegistered Userregular
edited August 2011
The worst is when you see or hear about the people they did keep as you're packing up your shit and heading out the door. Usually the dumbest fucks possible or the ones who kissed more ass than did actual work.
The whole time with some asshole mid-manager or goon security fuck watching you like a goddamn felon just in case you try to take that company stapler or accidentally put 2 dollars worth of top notch pens in your little box of resentment.
Suppose you found a bug in a game that rendered a console unplayable? Suppose it was something akin to the original Myth II Uninstall problem where it basically formatted your hard drive, only worse?
There was a game that was released in the last 10 years that had a peculiar issue toward the end where you could crash the title just before one of the end bosses by doing a manual save just as it was autosaving.
If you did, it caused the console kernel to overwrite itself, rendering the entire unit non-functional.
After causing this to happen once, I was asked to replicate the issue in front of people who made a lot more money than I did. After sixteen hours of play, I, again, saved while the game was autosaving, and watched with everyone else in the room as the screen turned black and the console shut down. Attempting to boot it up didn’t even result in an error screen, it would just power on and then shut back down.
(To me) “You can do this every time?”
“If I want to, yeah.”
(To a marketing guy) “How long until we’re supposed to ship?”
“We’re supposed to go gold in a week.”
(To a developer) “How long would this take to fix?”
“We’ll have to rewrite the entire file structure. Weeks, at least. Probably months.”
The game shipped.
I got fired.
jesus
I've worked in games testing and this happens all the time.
EDIT: And they get away with it by making you sign a NDA.
Gametesting is probably the best way to get your foot in the door if you have zero professional experience and don't mind sacrificing a few years bouncing from contract to contract.
Then you might, if you're lucky and really really good, move on to a permanent QA position.
After a while there as a Test Lead, you can navigate to the lowest rung of Producer or Development.
QA is not, never has been, and never will be a fast track to a damn thing other then more QA.
Video games QA can vary between being fucking awesome and absolutely horrible. Examples:
Absolutely horrible:
I had to play one of those Japanese text adventure games (no not porn get your mind out of the gutter). It was completely in Japanese. Which i don't speak. I had to get all the endings (there were 6 or 7 if i remember). What they were, fuck if i know but to this day if i have the phrase "ONI-CHAN" burned into my mind.
Fucking awesome:
Halo 3 multi-player had to be fully tested (as in games/round had to be played to completion) before it went gold. I spent a month playing Halo 3 multi-player and it ruled.
Edit: the only downside of the above is that I could see all the discussions about Halo 3 on the PA forums and i knew all the answers. I wanted to tell you bro's but the man wouldn't let me. I say the man, but the NDA i signed was so good, they could have sued me to death.
Karl on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Gametesting is probably the best way to get your foot in the door if you have zero professional experience and don't mind sacrificing a few years bouncing from contract to contract.
Then you might, if you're lucky and really really good, move on to a permanent QA position.
After a while there as a Test Lead, you can navigate to the lowest rung of Producer or Development.
QA is not, never has been, and never will be a fast track to a damn thing other then more QA.
This is not necessarily the case outside of game QA. I've seen a number of people move between dev, test, and pm here. Of course, we take testing more seriously than a lot of other places.
But by and large, game testing will get you more game testing.
you're = you are
your = belonging to you
their = belonging to them
there = not here
they're = they are
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
After seeing hearing enough stories like this over the years, this is why I don't really give a shit when game companies cry over second hand sales. When they can decide it's better to ship a game instead of fixing a console breaking bug because it suits their bottom line, or forcing overtime immediately followed by mass layoffs as soon as the title ships, they don't really have much wiggle room to expect goodwill.
So the product is good enough to buy, just not good enough to pay them money for it.
Having more funds allows companies to avoid resorting to shortcuts like that. Bioware and Blizzard can afford to put a lot of time into QA and "Ship when it's ready" because they consistently sell. Not every company will use their profits to reinvest in quality products, but at least they have the option.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Somehow I doubt it's an issue of funds, since it's the larger publishers that are the most infamous for doing it in the first place.
If they basically have carte blanche to do whatever they want to cut costs within the confines of the law, then I'm not going to hesitate when I find a way to save money myself.
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
edited August 2011
I can't even believe that buying new is an issue to games. It is the only industry that his happens.
Posts
While yes, an easy work-around could be put in place to avoid the immediate issue, such as disabling user-input at that point, the problem is that the defect is still there. They just happen to have found one permutation of it.
The fault in the code still exists. So that means it can still happen elsewhere, and they just haven't found it yet. This is why QA is so much more than "does it work?".
Well yes, it works under these parameters, I can verify that yes it does what was designed.
However under ALL THESE parameters, I can't verify. As my team can only test so much, and when a fix goes in, guess what? You start over. QA's job is never, ever done. What may take a developer 15 minutes to fix, can take QA 3 weeks to verify.
When they decide to ship has no bearing on whether QA is done. Because we'll never be done. Ever.
Many companies build up employees near crunch times or during busy seasons. The minerals industry gets lots of orders for the spring and summer (construction season) so they need a lot of operators and people in the processing or bagging end, and then at the end of fall through winter people are laid off by the droves.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
It's one of those things that becomes legend over time.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
I was going to off-load it on craigslist but then I realized that hey.... those serials are probably traceable you dumbass.
sell it to north korea for nuclear missile guidance system money
kingworkscreative.com
kingworkscreative.blogspot.com
...or is that sort of how it works already?
imagine anyone who quits a job at blizzard and knew about diablo3 or starcraft2 prior to their announcements
a contract ending doesn't have the same kind of soul-crushing impact that being fired does, and really that's what head office is looking for
I would guess that's how a lot of QA positions work, and them being "fired" just means they weren't kept on/moved to another project
I know at our office we don't have nearly enough work to keep a full-time test staff, so all of our testers are project-based and we make that crystal clear when we do the hiring.
kingworkscreative.com
kingworkscreative.blogspot.com
That does it, I'm going to start submitting stories from working on Perfect Dark Zero.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
That's exactly how it works.
Him saying he was "fired" is just the standard amount of bitterness and jaded view from anyone who has been laid off after giving 110% and getting dumped.
It's a lie. Not all the time. Only like 98% of the time. You could cure cancer with net code or I could solve world hunger with calcium carbonate, and that would be great...but uh, we need to trim expenses and you're skill set is no longer needed.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
because there will always be someone smarter, willing to work for less.
The whole time with some asshole mid-manager or goon security fuck watching you like a goddamn felon just in case you try to take that company stapler or accidentally put 2 dollars worth of top notch pens in your little box of resentment.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
Just handing shit out, "you want some games? take em. take em all." or "You want some soda? take home this pallet of coke zero."
I thought you said he was pretty cool, but he was trying to pawn off diet soda on you? It's either one of the other, man.
You're a book by L. Ron Hubbard?
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
Ding ding ding!
This was kind of what I was getting at.
You force people to urinate more?
I've worked in games testing and this happens all the time.
EDIT: And they get away with it by making you sign a NDA.
QA is not a way to get your foot in the door.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Then you might, if you're lucky and really really good, move on to a permanent QA position.
After a while there as a Test Lead, you can navigate to the lowest rung of Producer or Development.
QA is not, never has been, and never will be a fast track to a damn thing other then more QA.
Absolutely horrible:
I had to play one of those Japanese text adventure games (no not porn get your mind out of the gutter). It was completely in Japanese. Which i don't speak. I had to get all the endings (there were 6 or 7 if i remember). What they were, fuck if i know but to this day if i have the phrase "ONI-CHAN" burned into my mind.
Fucking awesome:
Halo 3 multi-player had to be fully tested (as in games/round had to be played to completion) before it went gold. I spent a month playing Halo 3 multi-player and it ruled.
Edit: the only downside of the above is that I could see all the discussions about Halo 3 on the PA forums and i knew all the answers. I wanted to tell you bro's but the man wouldn't let me. I say the man, but the NDA i signed was so good, they could have sued me to death.
What Taramoor said.
Realistically, your best "foot in the door" is to just build up a regular resume and a portfolio of work related to what you want to do.
Or know someone in the place. That's that!
This is not necessarily the case outside of game QA. I've seen a number of people move between dev, test, and pm here. Of course, we take testing more seriously than a lot of other places.
But by and large, game testing will get you more game testing.
your = belonging to you
their = belonging to them
there = not here
they're = they are
So the product is good enough to buy, just not good enough to pay them money for it.
Having more funds allows companies to avoid resorting to shortcuts like that. Bioware and Blizzard can afford to put a lot of time into QA and "Ship when it's ready" because they consistently sell. Not every company will use their profits to reinvest in quality products, but at least they have the option.
If they basically have carte blanche to do whatever they want to cut costs within the confines of the law, then I'm not going to hesitate when I find a way to save money myself.
Satans..... hints.....