Video Game Industry Thread: This is the old one, go to the new one

Santa Claustrophobia

There is no end to how far somebody will go to defend a product they like.

chrishallett83

About 3?

UncleSporky

Hm, about this:

Brainiac 8 wrote:

The 3DS is failing right now, more than any other reason, because of smartphones and tablets offering compelling gaming experiences.

I thought we'd all agreed that the point isn't that they offer compelling experiences by any stretch of the imagination, or that at least the volume of these experiences is far smaller than on dedicated platforms.

Their main advantage is being ubiquitous/necessary and the games being cheaper and essentially enough for a wide group of people who don't take their gaming too seriously. A Big Mac instead of steak...or heck, a regular cheeseburger instead of a Big Mac.

Failing because phones offer compelling experiences, though? I think not. The experiences aren't any more compelling than they were throughout the DS and PSP's tenure, it's just that the volume is greater and more and more people own smartphones than before.

Henroid

Brainiac 8 wrote:

Nintendo: consumers do not and will not care about the 3DS. And the iPhone 5, which will likely come with improved components to help deliver even better gameplay to owners, will make that abundantly clear.

The 3DS is failing right now, more than any other reason, because of smartphones and tablets offering compelling gaming experiences. And when the iPhone 5 launches in the next several weeks, you can expect it to officially kill off the 3DS.

Sorry, Nintendo, but if smartphones and tablets already on store shelves are killing the 3DS, the iPhone 5 might just be enough to put the final nail in the device’s coffin.

http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-5-will-officially-kill-off-the-nintendo-3ds-17180647/?

Here we go... :rotate:

I don't think this person understands what "compelling" means.

UnbreakableVow

Henroid wrote:

Brainiac 8 wrote:

Nintendo: consumers do not and will not care about the 3DS. And the iPhone 5, which will likely come with improved components to help deliver even better gameplay to owners, will make that abundantly clear.

The 3DS is failing right now, more than any other reason, because of smartphones and tablets offering compelling gaming experiences. And when the iPhone 5 launches in the next several weeks, you can expect it to officially kill off the 3DS.

Sorry, Nintendo, but if smartphones and tablets already on store shelves are killing the 3DS, the iPhone 5 might just be enough to put the final nail in the device’s coffin.

http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-5-will-officially-kill-off-the-nintendo-3ds-17180647/?

Here we go... :rotate:

I don't think this person understands what "compelling" means.

Infinity Blade, Dungeon Raid and Pac-Man CE are far more compelling than anything currently on the 3DS or even in the pipeline for it, IMO

They cost me a grand total of $8, to boot

Rakai

We know you have terrible tastes. You don't have to keep reminding us.

Automaticzen

It happens. My girlfriend just spent two hours playing Game Dev Story on her phone. Once you get something like the Sims on a tablet, there's a whole bunch of people who will be perfectly fine with that style of gaming.

I'm not saying he's correct. Yes, portable consoles provide a more robust gaming experience, but does the 'blue ocean' really care about a more robust experience?

UnbreakableVow

Yes, clearly it's bullshit to think that a mobile device could have a compelling gaming experience on par with handhelds

But please, throw out the old "Oh Vow has bad opinions olol" thing because it's a lot easier

UncleSporky

Pacman CE is already on 3DS. Also it has buttons.

UnbreakableVow

UncleSporky wrote:

Pacman CE is already on 3DS. Also it has buttons.

When did that happen? Is it 3DS-Ware (whatever that's called)?

Is it a port of the XBLA version or iPhone version? Because the iPhone version is definitely better

Brainiac 8

UnbreakableVow wrote:

Henroid wrote:

Brainiac 8 wrote:

Nintendo: consumers do not and will not care about the 3DS. And the iPhone 5, which will likely come with improved components to help deliver even better gameplay to owners, will make that abundantly clear.

The 3DS is failing right now, more than any other reason, because of smartphones and tablets offering compelling gaming experiences. And when the iPhone 5 launches in the next several weeks, you can expect it to officially kill off the 3DS.

Sorry, Nintendo, but if smartphones and tablets already on store shelves are killing the 3DS, the iPhone 5 might just be enough to put the final nail in the device’s coffin.

http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-5-will-officially-kill-off-the-nintendo-3ds-17180647/?

Here we go... :rotate:

I don't think this person understands what "compelling" means.

Infinity Blade, Dungeon Raid and Pac-Man CE are far more compelling than anything currently on the 3DS or even in the pipeline for it, IMO

They cost me a grand total of $8, to boot

But the 3DS has Pac-Man CE.

Seriously though, this is all in the eye of the beholder. Other than one or two games, nothing on the smartphones interests me at all. Wiiware/XBLA both have much more compelling experiences to me for maybe a fraction more than a game on a smart phone. That's not including the packaged games you can get also, which are (in most cases) much more robust and full experiences than anything on the other platform. (this is all my opinion though)

Then again, your thoughts on this don't surprise me, as even though I wouldn't go so far as to say your tastes are terrible, I know that most of what Nintendo makes don't interest you, so in effect your opinion is a bit biased toward the tablet/phone gaming, just as my disdain for phone gaming has my opinion biased the other way.

Hahnsoo1

Automaticzen wrote:

It happens. My girlfriend just spent two hours playing Game Dev Story on her phone. Once you get something like the Sims on a tablet, there's a whole bunch of people who will be perfectly fine with that style of gaming.

My girlfriend is about to play Killing Floor with me in about 20 minutes. So I think I win. To be fair, though, her favorite game is The Sims franchise.

Peewi

UnbreakableVow wrote:

UncleSporky wrote:

Pacman CE is already on 3DS. Also it has buttons.

When did that happen? Is it 3DS-Ware (whatever that's called)?

Is it a port of the XBLA version or iPhone version? Because the iPhone version is definitely better

Pac-Man & Galaga Dimensions contains it (and a bunch of other stuff no one cares about).

Dritz

How do you play Pacman on a touch screen? I can barely play it with a dpad.

UnbreakableVow

Dritz wrote:

How do you play Pacman on a touch screen? I can barely play it with a dpad.

They have a few control methods available, I go with swipe

So if I'm going to the right and, say, there's a path coming up that I want to go down on, you just swipe your finger down and Pac-Man starts "grinding" (like he would if you were holding down the stick in a certain direction to go around corners). An onscreen joystick is there but it's only to let you know which way Pac-Man is set to go

It's really, really intuitive and nice, and the iPhone version has a bunch of missions that aren't in the XBLA/PSP version

Automaticzen

UncleSporky wrote:

Pacman CE is already on 3DS. Also it has buttons.

You mean this? Cause it's not on the eShop.

Now put yourself in the shoes of the average consumer, who doesn't care about buttons, they just want to play Pac-Man. And their choices are a $30 cartridge or a $5 download. what do they go with?

Brainiac 8 wrote:

Seriously though, this is all in the eye of the beholder.

Well of course. The problem is we're the smaller beholder. 'We' being the enthusiast game players.

I get people. I want that deeper game. But the mainstream crowd the Nintendo had with the Wii and DS, the people they want to sell to again? Those people generally do not care.

The Nintendo DS was the defacto portable system for a long while, but now it's launching into a space where phone gaming is now 'a thing'. And since most people own cell phones, Nintendo has to draw them toward the 3DS away from the platform they already own and carry with them everywhere they go.

Doom? No. But I doubt the 3DS will sell as well as the DS, and it's clear Nintendo wants it to. It has less to do with the system itself than the market the system is being launched into.

Then again, your thoughts on this don't surprise me, as even though I wouldn't go so far as to say your tastes are terrible, I know that most of what Nintendo makes don't interest you, so in effect your opinion is a bit biased toward the tablet/phone gaming, just as my disdain for phone gaming has my opinion biased the other way.

I own both (3DS & iOS/Android) and play on all platforms on a regular basis.

Hahnsoo1 wrote:

My girlfriend is about to play Killing Floor with me in about 20 minutes. So I think I win. To be fair, though, her favorite game is The Sims franchise.

Not my thing. She's an avid fighting game player (which fits with me), RPG fiend, and Rogue-like lover (neither of which are my thing).

Henroid

UnbreakableVow wrote:

Yes, clearly it's bullshit to think that a mobile device could have a compelling gaming experience on par with handhelds

But please, throw out the old "Oh Vow has bad opinions olol" thing because it's a lot easier

Well, you're definitely often the odd-man out. But I've come to like it, and it's kinda necessary because we easily slip into hive-mind around here.

Now for the sake of argument, against the three titles you listed for your mobile device, can you (or anyone else who has a 3DS and - more importantly - likes it) pit up three games currently available for the 3DS that would count toward being 'compelling,' whether they actually are or are said to be? I just want to see what the playing field is like.

Automaticzen

Henroid wrote:

Now for the sake of argument, against the three titles you listed for your mobile device, can you (or anyone else who has a 3DS and - more importantly - likes it) pit up three games currently available for the 3DS that would count toward being 'compelling,' whether they actually are or are said to be? I just want to see what the playing field is like.

For 3DS I currently have: Ocarina 3D, SSFIV 3D, and Ghost Recon. For Android, I have Angry Birds, Zenonia 3, Game Dev Story, and Star Traders. For iOS, Katamari, Dig Dug, Final Fantasy Tactics (I buy it for everything), Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy II, Secret of Mana, Mega Mall Story and Infinity Blade. I've pondered getting Chaos Rings, which looks great, but I have an issue with paying more than $5-6 for a mobile title since I own portable systems.

I'll probably get Chrono Trigger when it hits Android. And I'm not working with an iPad or other tablet yet, otherwise I would've picked up Monkey Island and other Telltale titles. For 3DS, I've already played Mario Land 3D and Mario Kart 7, so I'll probably pick those up, but the 3DS only comes out for longer trips. At home, I stick to consoles, and smartphone games are for when I'm waiting (at the store, oil change, car wash, etc.).

BigJoeM

Counting only games in my collection

Completely 3DS exclusive (no remakes/rereleases/DSi)
Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars
Dead or Alive: Dimensions
Resident Evil The Mercenaries 3D

counting remakes/rereleases
Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars
The Legend of Zelda: OOT 3D
Devil Survivor Overclocked
Dead or Alive: Dimensions
Resident Evil The Mercenaries 3D
StarFox 3D

But i would say that smartphones do offer some compelling experiences (Chaos Rings, War For Eustrath) but they don't light up the charts like the bite size games.

My problem with phones is i much prefer playing games on dedicated devices and i haven't seen any iOS games i would consider compelling get ported to a dedicated handheld especially KOFi.

Spoit

Great. Moar list warz :rotate:

UnbreakableVow

Henroid wrote:

UnbreakableVow wrote:

Yes, clearly it's bullshit to think that a mobile device could have a compelling gaming experience on par with handhelds

But please, throw out the old "Oh Vow has bad opinions olol" thing because it's a lot easier

Well, you're definitely often the odd-man out. But I've come to like it, and it's kinda necessary because we easily slip into hive-mind around here.

Now for the sake of argument, against the three titles you listed for your mobile device, can you (or anyone else who has a 3DS and - more importantly - likes it) pit up three games currently available for the 3DS that would count toward being 'compelling,' whether they actually are or are said to be? I just want to see what the playing field is like.

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Super Street Fighter IV 3D

I've played quite a few 3DS games but these are the only two I've enjoyed. And they're both ports, one upgraded and one downgraded. I could throw Pac-Man CE up there since, no matter which version it is, I can almost guarantee it's totally boss. But then, like Automaticzen points out, it's then going to be a point of "This is $5" versus "That is $30"

There's plenty coming in the pipeline for the stalwart Nintendo fan, Super Mario 3D Land, Mario Kart 7, Paper Mario, Mario Tennis, Mario Mario, Luigi Mario, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, etc. Personally I am interested in absolutely none of those.

I'm not going to argue that there's not a ton of dogshit on mobile devices, but at least when something quality comes along it surprises me, which is nice, compared to "Here is another Mario Kart and now it is in 3D."

Henroid

Spoit wrote:

Great. Moar list warz :rotate:

Shit, that wasn't my intention!

Henroid

UnbreakableVow wrote:

I'm not going to argue that there's not a ton of dogshit on mobile devices, but at least when something quality comes along it surprises me, which is nice, compared to "Here is another Mario Kart and now it is in 3D."

Would it be safe to generalize your sentiment as there being actual new content (or, content with a new face) on mobiles, and that's what makes them attractive? Because I can sorta agree with that. Problem is the few and far between issue, which you said you wouldn't argue against but it's still there.

BigJoeM

My intention isn't list warz either

I just think there's a place for dedicated handhelds even if smartphones have taken a significant chunk of their user base.

Although cartridges dropping back to the $20 level would be for the best

Automaticzen

BigJoeM wrote:

I just think there's a place for dedicated handhelds even if smartphones have taken a significant chunk of their user base.

I agree there's still a place for dedicated handhelds, but they need to realize that the second part of that sentence is coming to pass. Not because smartphones are better, but because everyone already has a smartphone for everyday use. Hell, pre-teens and teenagers have them so their parents can keep track of them. iPods as well.

So everyone here talks about the fact that games for dedicated portables are deeper experiences, but a lot of the time, that's not what people want. That isn't even what they really wanted on the Wii or DS if you look at the top ten best-selling titles. Nintendo makes excellent games, but I argue that Mario and Zelda sold well because everyone knew Mario and Zelda already, not necessarily because a user needed a Mario or Zelda title. Bravely Default looks great, but that's not going to be the title that draws the average person to the 3DS.

And yes, for a pragmatic point of view, parents and others we ask that question that we bring up occasionally: why should I pay for $30 for one title on 3DS (a system I may not own already), when I can pay $5 to get it on the phone I already have? Even with a mobile strong title like Plants vs. Zombies, why am I paying $7.99 for it on 3DS, when its $2.99 on itunes?

And sadly, ladies and gentlemen, 'buttons' is not a compelling answer to most people.

Following that idea, I think Nintendo and Sony need to realize they have a smaller pie to work with than they're classicly used to, but there's been no indication that either company is cognizant of this fact. Is Nintendo's 3DS doomed? No. Will it sell as well as the DS? No. It's launched into a different market than its predecessor.

Ziggymon

Its funny how many of these skeptics reports are stating that Nintendo should make games for iOS and Android. In fact I heard it off a few customers in a games store today saying it. All I can say about it though if Nintendo did move to iOS do you think Mario Kart iOS would cost anything less than $30? or any nintendo game for that matter?

SightTDW

There will definitely be some interesting splits. I'll always want my Marios and Zeldas and what have you on my dedicated devices, but if I could have gotten Picross 3D on my phone? Well sign me right on up.

Automaticzen

Ziggymon wrote:

Its funny how many of these skeptics reports are stating that Nintendo should make games for iOS and Android.

That'd be the admission of failure by Nintendo. I can't see it ever happening, because they haven't failed yet.

In fact I heard it off a few customers in a games store today saying it. All I can say about it though if Nintendo did move to iOS do you think Mario Kart iOS would cost anything less than $30? or any nintendo game for that matter?

But if they did go this route, then $30 would ensure weak sales for their titles.

UnbreakableVow

SightTDW wrote:

if I could have gotten Picross 3D on my phone? Well sign me right on up.

I know you can't see it, but I just had like five orgasms

Henroid wrote:

UnbreakableVow wrote:

I'm not going to argue that there's not a ton of dogshit on mobile devices, but at least when something quality comes along it surprises me, which is nice, compared to "Here is another Mario Kart and now it is in 3D."

Would it be safe to generalize your sentiment as there being actual new content (or, content with a new face) on mobiles, and that's what makes them attractive? Because I can sorta agree with that. Problem is the few and far between issue, which you said you wouldn't argue against but it's still there.

Yes, this, but also combined with the creativity of some indie stuff I've seen (like the aforementioned Dungeon Raid). And it's not just a problem with the 3DS, but the Vita as well. Vita actually has franchises and games I want (like Uncharted), but all I'll really do is pine for it, because as attractive as a $250 price point is for the Vita considering its capabilities, yo, that's still two-hundred-and-fifty dollars. Plus expensive games and, apparently, memory storage.

But my original argument was against the notion that mobile gaming can't be equally or even more compelling. Would I like a new Uncharted? Sure. But I don't $290 want it (I'm conservatively estimating Vita games will be $40), and for $6 on my phone that I already have and need, Epic popped out a Punch-Out!-inspired fantasy RPG that kept me playing for hours or end, considerably longer than most "true" game experiences would.

Spoit

I tried some of the picross clones on my ipod touch. They didn't control well at all

fragglefart

I don't understand why the 'smartphones are competing with handhelds' argument is so divisive.

I say that as someone who can't really justify (or be bothered) buyng a handheld since I can happily game on my phone when I need to kill a few minutes...

Maddoc

fragglefart wrote:

I don't understand why the 'smartphones are competing with handhelds' argument is so divisive.

I say that as someone who can't really justify (or be bothered) buyng a handheld since I can happily game on my phone when I need to kill a few minutes...

Generally speaking, the games released on handhelds aren't made for "killing a few minutes", with a few exceptions here and there like WarioWare.

You're basically doing more to suggest that they're not competing directly to phrase it like that, actually.

fragglefart

Maddoc wrote:

fragglefart wrote:

I don't understand why the 'smartphones are competing with handhelds' argument is so divisive.

I say that as someone who can't really justify (or be bothered) buyng a handheld since I can happily game on my phone when I need to kill a few minutes...

Generally speaking, the games released on handhelds aren't made for "killing a few minutes", with a few exceptions here and there like WarioWare.

You're basically doing more to suggest that they're not competing directly to phrase it like that, actually.

I see. Then again, I can't really fathom wanting to play deep, long games on a tiny portable system so...

Either way, playing games on my phone means I'm less likely to be interested in a dedicated portable console.

PMAvers

Part of me ever wonders what the DSi/3DS-shop would look like if they stopped half-assing it. Give it a real UI, give out the dev software for free, etc.

The Wolfman

This is what I've been noticing and saying for a while now. The traditional handheld experience has been slowly becoming more and more indistinguishable from the console experience.

I highly suspect that sometime in the future, the two will just morph together, and we won't have separate handhelds and consoles. Just the one device that's an amalgamation of both.

Santa Claustrophobia

fragglefart wrote:

Maddoc wrote:

fragglefart wrote:

I don't understand why the 'smartphones are competing with handhelds' argument is so divisive.

I say that as someone who can't really justify (or be bothered) buyng a handheld since I can happily game on my phone when I need to kill a few minutes...

Generally speaking, the games released on handhelds aren't made for "killing a few minutes", with a few exceptions here and there like WarioWare.

You're basically doing more to suggest that they're not competing directly to phrase it like that, actually.

I see. Then again, I can't really fathom wanting to play deep, long games on a tiny portable system so...

Either way, playing games on my phone means I'm less likely to be interested in a dedicated portable console.

Also, think about the way that people reflexively defend PC gaming from the 'onslaught' of consoles. Or one particular console against some other console.

The idea that something new, or probably more accurately 'something else', might be better makes people act funny.

The reality is that if it plays a game, to many it is a direct competition. Even if you know deep down that the experiences between two different platforms can be wildly different. People will still feel an almost uncontrollable urge to leap to the defense of their favoured thing.

Smartphones are competing with handhelds. But really only superficially. I think people are jumping on the Doom Bus because they want to be on the leading edge of what they presume to be a safe prediction. As if a single setback for Nintendo (in the case of the 3DS crap) means they've irrevocably harmed themselves for generations to come.

Spoit

I don't know, dealing with console warriors are one thing, dealing with the cult of apple though, is a completely different thing. Especially in terms of "media" coverage

UnbreakableVow

The Wolfman wrote:

This is what I've been noticing and saying for a while now. The traditional handheld experience has been slowly becoming more and more indistinguishable from the console experience.

I highly suspect that sometime in the future, the two will just morph together, and we won't have separate handhelds and consoles. Just the one device that's an amalgamation of both.

If you own a PS3 already and are purchasing a Vita, this is kind of already a thing that's happening

Ruin
Metal Gear Solid Collection
Zone of the Enders Collection
Final Fantasy X HD

All of those titles have the ability to play them on one, transfer your save, and continue on another. Plus the new Wipeout has cross-system play, which is kind of insane for a console and a handheld.

SightTDW

I know that Kojima games are transferable, don't know anything about Ruin. It sounded like FF X was just getting a PS3 and Vita release to me though.

SmokeStacks

Spoit wrote:

I don't know, dealing with console warriors are one thing, dealing with the cult of apple though, is a completely different thing. Especially in terms of "media" coverage

I'll take console warriors over "Master Race" pc diehards any day of the week.

I think dedicated handhelds will always have their place in the world, because there will always be people who will want a mobile gaming experience that is more compelling than "Tetris" or "Shoot birds at pigs".