Trenches comic: Tuesday Aug. 23, 2011

Bogey

Nothing to lose.

08/23/2011 - Anonymous

I was part of a group working on a big QA project and was lucky enough to have a friend working on that same team. On the way to a Halloween party, our boss called him and explained that this big, important title we had been working on for a year had been cancelled and that, unfortunately, he was no longer needed.

I remember at the time thinking this didn’t make a lot of sense given the size of the project, but with this new information in hand, the plan of a mellow, mid-week costume party turned into an all-night bender commiserating with my fellow unemployed friend.

In the morning, blurry eyed, I realized I had left some personal effects in my cubical and decided to head in to get my stuff. When I stumbled into the lab, still aching from the previous night’s debauchery, I found everyone hard at work. Indeed, when I asked “Aren’t we cancelled?” all I got in return were weird looks. The only one missing from the team was my friend.

Oops.

Antimatter

what

the

flying

fuck

Gaslight

Actually being called back to find out you didn't get the job is sort of a foreign concept to me. In my experience it's much more common to simply deduce you didn't get the job from the simple fact you never heard from the company ever again after your interview. I would appreciate the old-world courtesy of being explicitly informed that I'm not wanted.

Kagera

Wow, being lied to about why you were let go is like, being stabbed in the back then having the blade you were stabbed with split in twain by another, bigger blade stabbing you in the back.

Robert Khoo

The best part was that this particular submitter gave us THREE separate stories. This was just the best one.

End

Seems silly to lie about it

Vivixenne

Gaslight wrote:

Actually being called back to find out you didn't get the job is sort of a foreign concept to me. In my experience it's much more common to simply deduce you didn't get the job from the simple fact you never heard from the company ever again after your interview. I would appreciate the old-world courtesy of being explicitly informed that I'm not wanted.

I am with you on this. I find it very poor practice not to call someone back after their interview to let them know their application wasn't successful.

This is not the same as just sending in an application, obviously, but I mean if you took the time to turn up to the interview, it should be a simple courtesy to get a call, E-mail, or letter back saying you didn't get the job.

By and large if a company didn't get back to me I like to think that I'd be pretty glad I didn't get the job anyway since it speaks volumes of their corporate culture.

Bogey

End wrote:

Seems silly to lie about it

Maybe they were afraid he would cause a ruckus, but they didn't want to have security escort him out of the building.

Garthor

Bogey wrote:

End wrote:

Seems silly to lie about it

Maybe they were afraid he would cause a ruckus, but they didn't want to have security escort him out of the building.

I think it's likely that his boss was just a total chickenshit.

Just, unable to say something as simple as "you're fired" and had to make up a story so that he's not to blame.

PwnanObrien

So, if it's a big important title and all did they expect him to not notice when it was released?

nakirush

Vivixenne wrote:

...I am with you on this. I find it very poor practice not to call someone back after their interview to let them know their application wasn't successful....

As a hiring manager for a very large corporation I have to say that sadly this is next to impossible.

For example, when we look for a new hire, I have to sift through over two-thousand applications. From those applications I tend to pull the top two-hundred for round 1 interviews. I spend a week on round 1, cut it down to 100, spend another week on round 2, cut it to 25. At round three I bring in another two managers to narrow it to my top five picks, then interview them all again with my boss. I'll normally hire one, but if somebody really stands out I'll take two. At the end I have two new employees making next to minimum wage that I need to spend a month training.

I don't have time to call two-hundred interviewees to tell them we're not moving forward. All I can do is tell interviewees that if they don't hear from me within 48 hours that we've decided not to continue the process.

Falx

PwnanObrien wrote:

So, if it's a big important title and all did they expect him to not notice when it was released?

Seriously... although I'm pretty sure the person who told the story let his friend know he got screwed, but even if he hadn't... I mean I'd be incredibly pissed, walking past a shelf at a game store and going, "Wait, what?"

darleysam

Robert Khoo wrote:

The best part was that this particular submitter gave us THREE separate stories. This was just the best one.

Where 'best' = 'most horrible'.
These stories depress me, but I just can't look away.

MagnumCT

I'm with the "call me back" folks, but overwhelmed HR guy is inarguably correct, at least for a company of that scale. The fact that they give a definite time of no hope is a step up from many, much smaller places, though.

Also, lima bean shaped boss (Lima Boss?) is funny.

Tomanta

If I interview, I expect to be notified if I did not get the job. I don't need a call specifically, an email is fine these days. In a case like the HR guy above I'd find that acceptable since I at least have a timeframe.

Not being notified is one of the reasons I have chosen not to re-apply to my company's network operations department. In that case it was even more annoying since I'm an employee of the company (The fact that the particular person hired instead of me was more than unqualified made it even worse).

jackal

I never been called back when I didn't get the job. Although one time I got called back six months later saying I got the job. That one was a head scratcher.

MagnumCT

In my state at least, schools will send you a letter when they don't hire you as a teacher, which is nice. However, usually the letter comes so late, it's at best a formality of something you long since already knew, and at worst it's a bitter reminder of something you've kinda-sorta come to terms with. These degrees of suck come down to how desperate you are, of course.

Balefuego

PwnanObrien wrote:

So, if it's a big important title and all did they expect him to not notice when it was released?

at that point what does it matter?

Maigaard

Recycling sprites? Come on Kurtz, you're better than that.
And that story is just awful. What a terrible way to get fired.

kingworks

Not being called back sucks, but is somewhat understandable if there are a lot of applicants for a small number of positions. But being called up and lied to, instead of simply being told "we're going in another direction?" That's weak sauce.

Not a testing story, but in the sorta in the same vein (ie: released from a sucky job):

I worked at Books-a-Million whilst pursuing my second Bachelor's degree. After I graduated, I didn't really care to be there any more, but hadn't moved on yet. I got written up for drawing at the front counter and when asked to sign the write up report, I added in the comments section "I could not care less" (classy, I know). Anyway, I come back from X-mas vacation and I'm not on the schedule - only no one bothered to tell me this until I called in to ask what my hours were for the week. The general manager was flat out avoiding me. No one ever said to me "you're fired" or "we don't want you here anymore" or "we're letting you go," they just took my name off the schedule and hoped I'd get the hint.

In retrospect, it was probably a good thing - I've since moved on to make way more than they would ever pay - but at the time, it just felt really lame.

Sticks

I imagine firing someone feels pretty awful, but find some cajones and do the job right. Don't shirk your responsibility in order to avoid confrontation.

DiannaoChong

kingworks wrote:

Not being called back sucks, but is somewhat understandable if there are a lot of applicants for a small number of positions. But being called up and lied to, instead of simply being told "we're going in another direction?" That's weak sauce.

Not a testing story, but in the sorta in the same vein (ie: released from a sucky job):

I worked at Books-a-Million whilst pursuing my second Bachelor's degree. After I graduated, I didn't really care to be there any more, but hadn't moved on yet. I got written up for drawing at the front counter and when asked to sign the write up report, I added in the comments section "I could not care less" (classy, I know). Anyway, I come back from X-mas vacation and I'm not on the schedule - only no one bothered to tell me this until I called in to ask what my hours were for the week. The general manager was flat out avoiding me. No one ever said to me "you're fired" or "we don't want you here anymore" or "we're letting you go," they just took my name off the schedule and hoped I'd get the hint.

In retrospect, it was probably a good thing - I've since moved on to make way more than they would ever pay - but at the time, it just felt really lame.

When this happens, show back up and clock in. what are they going to do? fire you? They might of been doing this so they could write down you quit instead of having to offer services for firing you. You probably could of made out better if you were a dick about it.

Not getting called back does indeed suck, but I get it... like someone said they did 200 interviews for phase 1. I wait a day, send my "thanks for interviewing me" correspondence, and move on.

Framling

I'm going to go ahead and say that at this point, I don't think it'd be that hard to send out an automated "We're not moving forward with you on this. Your resume will be kept on file for 6 months" sort of email to everyone.

I can understand why no one does; there's basically no incentive whatsoever to do it. But by no means whatsoever is it technically infeasible.

Tox

DiannaoChong wrote:

kingworks wrote:

Not being called back sucks, but is somewhat understandable if there are a lot of applicants for a small number of positions. But being called up and lied to, instead of simply being told "we're going in another direction?" That's weak sauce.

Not a testing story, but in the sorta in the same vein (ie: released from a sucky job):

I worked at Books-a-Million whilst pursuing my second Bachelor's degree. After I graduated, I didn't really care to be there any more, but hadn't moved on yet. I got written up for drawing at the front counter and when asked to sign the write up report, I added in the comments section "I could not care less" (classy, I know). Anyway, I come back from X-mas vacation and I'm not on the schedule - only no one bothered to tell me this until I called in to ask what my hours were for the week. The general manager was flat out avoiding me. No one ever said to me "you're fired" or "we don't want you here anymore" or "we're letting you go," they just took my name off the schedule and hoped I'd get the hint.

In retrospect, it was probably a good thing - I've since moved on to make way more than they would ever pay - but at the time, it just felt really lame.

When this happens, show back up and clock in. what are they going to do? fire you? They might of been doing this so they could write down you quit instead of having to offer services for firing you. You probably could of made out better if you were a dick about it.

Not getting called back does indeed suck, but I get it... like someone said they did 200 interviews for phase 1. I wait a day, send my "thanks for interviewing me" correspondence, and move on.

No. When this happens, you look for another job. You don't show back up and clock in, because you will get in trouble. You're not on the schedule to work that day, you're not working. Period. Strictly speaking, he wasn't fired. This is an easy trick that retail/food service use (we did it ALL THE TIME at Papa John's) to fire someone without actually "firing" them, so that they had no recourse for unemployment and the like.

Robert Khoo

I dunno. We send letters letting people know if they didn't get past round X each and every round. Don't get me wrong, it is a TON of work, but they spent hours putting together a resume. I can spend an hour or two culling email addresses into a mailing list.

Fyndir

Tox wrote:

You don't show back up and clock in, because you will get in trouble.

What trouble will you get in?

What trouble can you get in, if you've already been, for all intents and purposes, fired?

Echo

Tox wrote:

This is an easy trick that retail/food service use (we did it ALL THE TIME at Papa John's) to fire someone without actually "firing" them, so that they had no recourse for unemployment and the like.

I'm glad that this is outrageously illegal over here.

Framling

Tox wrote:

DiannaoChong wrote:

kingworks wrote:

Not being called back sucks, but is somewhat understandable if there are a lot of applicants for a small number of positions. But being called up and lied to, instead of simply being told "we're going in another direction?" That's weak sauce.

Not a testing story, but in the sorta in the same vein (ie: released from a sucky job):

I worked at Books-a-Million whilst pursuing my second Bachelor's degree. After I graduated, I didn't really care to be there any more, but hadn't moved on yet. I got written up for drawing at the front counter and when asked to sign the write up report, I added in the comments section "I could not care less" (classy, I know). Anyway, I come back from X-mas vacation and I'm not on the schedule - only no one bothered to tell me this until I called in to ask what my hours were for the week. The general manager was flat out avoiding me. No one ever said to me "you're fired" or "we don't want you here anymore" or "we're letting you go," they just took my name off the schedule and hoped I'd get the hint.

In retrospect, it was probably a good thing - I've since moved on to make way more than they would ever pay - but at the time, it just felt really lame.

When this happens, show back up and clock in. what are they going to do? fire you? They might of been doing this so they could write down you quit instead of having to offer services for firing you. You probably could of made out better if you were a dick about it.

Not getting called back does indeed suck, but I get it... like someone said they did 200 interviews for phase 1. I wait a day, send my "thanks for interviewing me" correspondence, and move on.

No. When this happens, you look for another job. You don't show back up and clock in, because you will get in trouble. You're not on the schedule to work that day, you're not working. Period. Strictly speaking, he wasn't fired. This is an easy trick that retail/food service use (we did it ALL THE TIME at Papa John's) to fire someone without actually "firing" them, so that they had no recourse for unemployment and the like.

I'm pretty sure that in Washington at least, you can qualify for unemployment by just not getting enough hours.

ArbitraryDescriptor

Framling wrote:

I'm going to go ahead and say that at this point, I don't think it'd be that hard to send out an automated "We're not moving forward with you on this. Your resume will be kept on file for 6 months" sort of email to everyone.

I can understand why no one does; there's basically no incentive whatsoever to do it. But by no means whatsoever is it technically infeasible.

All my applicants send me emails, and they go in a contact list. When we fill the position, I remove the people we hired and send a form letter to the rest with my condolences.

I prepare a second form letter noting why the candidates were chosen, if the applicants politely inquire as to how they might improve their chances in the future.

I wait a week and then I bulk mail that one to any who asked.

It is easy and it takes like 20 minutes to write both letters.

[e]Did not see this:

Robert Khoo wrote:

I dunno. We send letters letting people know if they didn't get past round X each and every round. Don't get me wrong, it is a TON of work, but they spent hours putting together a resume. I can spend an hour or two culling email addresses into a mailing list.

That's because you're good people.

Take note, future managers, and remember what Khoo would do.

Aistan

Yeah lima-bean boss doesn't seem like a good manager. He's too honest right there.

Maybe he works for the actual company though. I've only had experiences with contract agency managers when it comes to product testing.

mogdemon

Haha I just noticed that the secretary has a banana on her laptop.

I wish all the shitty firing stories weren't so true, but it just happened to me yesterday. Pretty much exactly what happened to @kingworks, except I can't think of anything I might have done to dissatisfy my supervisors. It's too bad so many employers come up with lies and excuses instead of being upfront and honest.

Tox

Being upfront and honest is a general no-no in the corporate environment.

See also: Jargon, Corporate

Tofystedeth

mogdemon wrote:

Haha I just noticed that the secretary has a banana on her laptop.

It should be partially peeled.

Framling

ArbitraryDescriptor wrote:

Framling wrote:

I'm going to go ahead and say that at this point, I don't think it'd be that hard to send out an automated "We're not moving forward with you on this. Your resume will be kept on file for 6 months" sort of email to everyone.

I can understand why no one does; there's basically no incentive whatsoever to do it. But by no means whatsoever is it technically infeasible.

All my applicants send me emails, and they go in a contact list. When we fill the position, I remove the people we hired and send a form letter to the rest with my condolences.

I prepare a second form letter noting why the candidates were chosen, if the applicants politely inquire as to how they might improve their chances in the future.

I wait a week and then I bulk mail that one to any who asked.

It is easy and it takes like 20 minutes to write both letters.

On behalf of people who look for jobs, thank you. Double thank you, for the second email.

You too, Mr. Khoo.

MagnumCT

kingworks wrote:

Not being called back sucks, but is somewhat understandable if there are a lot of applicants for a small number of positions. But being called up and lied to, instead of simply being told "we're going in another direction?" That's weak sauce.

Not a testing story, but in the sorta in the same vein (ie: released from a sucky job):

I worked at Books-a-Million whilst pursuing my second Bachelor's degree. After I graduated, I didn't really care to be there any more, but hadn't moved on yet. I got written up for drawing at the front counter and when asked to sign the write up report, I added in the comments section "I could not care less" (classy, I know). Anyway, I come back from X-mas vacation and I'm not on the schedule - only no one bothered to tell me this until I called in to ask what my hours were for the week. The general manager was flat out avoiding me. No one ever said to me "you're fired" or "we don't want you here anymore" or "we're letting you go," they just took my name off the schedule and hoped I'd get the hint.

In retrospect, it was probably a good thing - I've since moved on to make way more than they would ever pay - but at the time, it just felt really lame.

That is likely BAM's corporate policy, as that happened to a bloke when I worked there during college.

Henroid

Robert Khoo wrote:

I dunno. We send letters letting people know if they didn't get past round X each and every round. Don't get me wrong, it is a TON of work, but they spent hours putting together a resume. I can spend an hour or two culling email addresses into a mailing list.

That makes you outstanding. And while it should be the example all businesses follow, it isn't. And it sucks that it isn't. But for now, that adds onto the awesomeness that is Khoo.

In the meanwhile, I stick with the usual plan of calling the places I apply to once in a while.

jwalk

PwnanObrien wrote:

So, if it's a big important title and all did they expect him to not notice when it was released?

or that he wouldn't talk to any of his friends/co-workers?

"bummer about our project gettin cancelled huh"

".... what?"

jwalk

If you just FAXed an application/resume from an ad on their web site etc, and never heard anything back, that's pretty normal... they get a lot of applications.

If you go in for an actual interview and don't get hired, most places will send an email or postcard back I think..

For me lately the "interview" is all but a formality, since if I reach that point I've pretty much already got the job.

redfenix

Robert Khoo wrote:

I dunno. We send letters letting people know if they didn't get past round X each and every round. Don't get me wrong, it is a TON of work, but they spent hours putting together a resume. I can spend an hour or two culling email addresses into a mailing list.

I can vouch for this firsthand.. regarding the Child's Play position.
(thanks... kinda!)

Jars

My mother was telling me she had 100 people apply for a position opening when I was looking for a job. that's a lot of people to send rejections

Framling

Jars wrote:

My mother was telling me she had 100 people apply for a position opening when I was looking for a job. that's a lot of people to send rejections

This isn't 1887. You don't have to hand write each letter.