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Why is Apple not a "good" company?

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Posts

  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    enc0re wrote:
    Absolutely. If an IP suit in China prevents Apple from exporting and selling iPads, literally every supply chain manager with operations in China will take note and start exploring alternative production locations. I hear Indonesia has lovely beaches.

    Go Africa or go home. You can't get better supply chain integration than having the conflict minerals you need right on your compenent maker's doorsteps.

    Yeah but Africa doesn't have the 200k people with the very special skills that don't exist in the US that forced Apple to build its stuff in E Asia.


    I mean, what skills do the chinese workers have that workers anywhere else in the world cannot be trained to have?

    tiny Asian fingers?

    What? It's not me saying that, it's Sony
    Spoiler:

    Seriously though it's probably more to do with stability. You know the government won't collapse the next week and the factories won't be taken over by rebels and China will always play ball if you dangle enough money in front of them.

    sig_zpsf0994cbd.jpg
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    That does explain the white President (or was it CEO?). You need big hands lead and smack around the occasional subordinate.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Scott Turow takes a break from writing mass market pap to scribe a rant against the DoJ collusion suit:
    http://www.authorsguild.org/advocacy/articles/letter-from-scott-turow-grim.html

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    Huh... I remember the guy who went to Foxconn was doing a one-man show about it. Wonder if he changed parts of the story to help the narrative and didn't change them back for the TAL story.

  • SenjutsuSenjutsu fiddy too Registered User regular
    They did an hour long piece on the retraction and this guy's lies.

    Its clear that he intentionally mislead their fact checkers so they'd let him on the air.

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    Well that was shitty of him. Way to help those workers, asshole.

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    So, yeah... it turns out the stories about workers working to death on the factory floor, getting poisoned by component exposure, people with mangled hands from equipment used to build the devices? Bullshit.

    Apple is actually doing a better job than most of the companies using Chinese factories, and this guy tried to make a name for himself by attacking a popular product line with a believable story regarding worker exploitation, and This American Life fell for it.

    That sucks, because I like TAL. But I saw this guy on Bill Maher a month or so ago, and I had a very hard time believing a single word coming out of his mouth.

  • BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    So, yeah... it turns out the stories about workers working to death on the factory floor, getting poisoned by component exposure, people with mangled hands from equipment used to build the devices? Bullshit.
    Workers were poisoned by n-hexane, but that was at the Suzhou facility and not the Shenzhen one.

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Barrakketh wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    So, yeah... it turns out the stories about workers working to death on the factory floor, getting poisoned by component exposure, people with mangled hands from equipment used to build the devices? Bullshit.
    Workers were poisoned by n-hexane, but that was at the Suzhou facility and not the Shenzhen one.
    Not a Foxconn facility, and not an Apple run shop at all. That's a Wintek facility that Foxconn receives / received deliveries from for apple's iPhone screens. I am pretty sure they don't use them anymore. Other manufacturers order from them for Nokia and Garmin.

    I am having a very hard time grasping what Apple could have done to rectify this situation... and the guy who trumped up a more horrific version of it for his false version of the situation at Foxconn isn't helping anyone.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    That sucks, because I like TAL. But I saw this guy on Bill Maher a month or so ago, and I had a very hard time believing a single word coming out of his mouth.

    TAL has been extremely classy about this. They sent an email out to all their contributors, put a long explanation up on their website/social media and did an entire show as a retraction. If anything, I think they're coming away from this with their credibility enhanced.

  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    That sucks, because I like TAL. But I saw this guy on Bill Maher a month or so ago, and I had a very hard time believing a single word coming out of his mouth.

    TAL has been extremely classy about this. They sent an email out to all their contributors, put a long explanation up on their website/social media and did an entire show as a retraction. If anything, I think they're coming away from this with their credibility enhanced.

    They also put out a press release to call attention to it. I found the retraction/correction on the front page for the online editions of The New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Chicago Sun-Times the day it came out. You know what you can't find on the front page for the online editions of any of those publications? The retractions or corrections that they have to print for their own content. This American Life takes its retractions and corrections more seriously than every other news media outlet in the nation combined.

  • Erich ZahnErich Zahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    wrong thread.

    Erich Zahn on
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  • LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    Well, out of a list of 145 most ethical companies Apple didn't make the list.

    http://www.ethisphere.com/wme/

    Seems like some good support why Apple is not as "good" as other companies.

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    Lion Server is reason enough to throw Apple under the bus. 10.7.6 is so full of insanity I question whether the team who designed it has ever seen Active Directory.

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    Well, out of a list of 145 most ethical companies Apple didn't make the list.

    http://www.ethisphere.com/wme/

    Seems like some good support why Apple is not as "good" as other companies.
    Seriously, NYSE/Euronext made this list?

    The list is bullshit.

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    What is unethical about NYSE/Euronext? The last time stock brokers were killing themselves en masse over working conditions was in 1929.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Given Foxconn was a huge manufacturer that subcontracting out to a large number of companies, including Apple, and made no secret of it...not too surprising it turns out to be less than totally factual.

    There was still some debate as to whether or not comparative commercial success in a given market could determine whether a large company was "good", or at least "successful good" in a given region, but in any case, Samsung's market share in China, expected to be the largest smartphone market eventually, is three times that of Apple. Apparently, limited availability is part of the issue, which speaks a lot more to poor decisions in the long run than the more desirable "there just aren't enough of them everywhere!"

    Of course, Samsung has garnered more than its share of animosity as well, but there it is. But by this time, the usually "Oh, knock offs are sucking away all our sales" excuse doesn't cut it--Samsung and every other company has to deal with the same issue.

    Still dominating the tablet scene, I'd wager.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • PatboyXPatboyX Registered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Lion Server is reason enough to throw Apple under the bus. 10.7.6 is so full of insanity I question whether the team who designed it has ever seen Active Directory.
    I honestly question if they have ever seen Open Directory.
    It's time we accept that Enterprise doesn't mean a damn thing to Apple any longer.
    And why should it? They are making money by the boat-load. The OS is getting closer to the mobile OS and management of Lion clients with a Lion server hinges on tricking the system into using 10.6 server tools. I can't imagine that 10.8 will be an improvement.

    "lenny bruce is not afraid..."
    brush1rt1.jpg
  • YogoYogo Registered User regular
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    EDIT: NVM, got my OS Xs confused.

    enc0re on
  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    syndalis wrote: »
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    Well, out of a list of 145 most ethical companies Apple didn't make the list.

    http://www.ethisphere.com/wme/

    Seems like some good support why Apple is not as "good" as other companies.
    Seriously, NYSE/Euronext made this list?

    The list is bullshit.

    Well, the group of applicants is self-selected (you must be "nominated" and then choose to respond) and the ratings are based on self-provided information subject to "verification" and is weighted heavily towards "management's attitudes" and "reputation" and "written programs" as opposed to actual results.

    So, basically, it's nonsense.

    Maybe there's more to it, but it's not easily available on their website.

    adytum on
    etxvv5.jpg
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    PatboyX wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Lion Server is reason enough to throw Apple under the bus. 10.7.6 is so full of insanity I question whether the team who designed it has ever seen Active Directory.
    I honestly question if they have ever seen Open Directory.
    It's time we accept that Enterprise doesn't mean a damn thing to Apple any longer.
    And why should it? They are making money by the boat-load. The OS is getting closer to the mobile OS and management of Lion clients with a Lion server hinges on tricking the system into using 10.6 server tools. I can't imagine that 10.8 will be an improvement.

    So long as graphic designers and marketing people exist there is going to be some awful patchwork system to support their device choices.

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    SammyF wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    That sucks, because I like TAL. But I saw this guy on Bill Maher a month or so ago, and I had a very hard time believing a single word coming out of his mouth.

    TAL has been extremely classy about this. They sent an email out to all their contributors, put a long explanation up on their website/social media and did an entire show as a retraction. If anything, I think they're coming away from this with their credibility enhanced.

    They also put out a press release to call attention to it. I found the retraction/correction on the front page for the online editions of The New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Chicago Sun-Times the day it came out. You know what you can't find on the front page for the online editions of any of those publications? The retractions or corrections that they have to print for their own content. This American Life takes its retractions and corrections more seriously than every other news media outlet in the nation combined.

    The retraction didn't even make it into my NYTimes RSS. This is literally the first I am hearing about this. That is shameful on the part of the NYTimes, since it ran a full series of articles on this issue.

  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    SammyF wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    That sucks, because I like TAL. But I saw this guy on Bill Maher a month or so ago, and I had a very hard time believing a single word coming out of his mouth.

    TAL has been extremely classy about this. They sent an email out to all their contributors, put a long explanation up on their website/social media and did an entire show as a retraction. If anything, I think they're coming away from this with their credibility enhanced.

    They also put out a press release to call attention to it. I found the retraction/correction on the front page for the online editions of The New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Chicago Sun-Times the day it came out. You know what you can't find on the front page for the online editions of any of those publications? The retractions or corrections that they have to print for their own content. This American Life takes its retractions and corrections more seriously than every other news media outlet in the nation combined.

    The retraction didn't even make it into my NYTimes RSS. This is literally the first I am hearing about this. That is shameful on the part of the NYTimes, since it ran a full series of articles on this issue.

    I don't think the NYT based their stories on this guys testimony, though. I think they did their own work.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    SammyF wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    That sucks, because I like TAL. But I saw this guy on Bill Maher a month or so ago, and I had a very hard time believing a single word coming out of his mouth.

    TAL has been extremely classy about this. They sent an email out to all their contributors, put a long explanation up on their website/social media and did an entire show as a retraction. If anything, I think they're coming away from this with their credibility enhanced.

    They also put out a press release to call attention to it. I found the retraction/correction on the front page for the online editions of The New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Chicago Sun-Times the day it came out. You know what you can't find on the front page for the online editions of any of those publications? The retractions or corrections that they have to print for their own content. This American Life takes its retractions and corrections more seriously than every other news media outlet in the nation combined.

    Well, to be fair, TAL runs a either a single or a handful of stories per week, compared to who knows how many a major newspaper runs. Plus the Apple story was the most popular one in TAL's history.

    KalTorak on
  • PatboyXPatboyX Registered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    PatboyX wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Lion Server is reason enough to throw Apple under the bus. 10.7.6 is so full of insanity I question whether the team who designed it has ever seen Active Directory.
    I honestly question if they have ever seen Open Directory.
    It's time we accept that Enterprise doesn't mean a damn thing to Apple any longer.
    And why should it? They are making money by the boat-load. The OS is getting closer to the mobile OS and management of Lion clients with a Lion server hinges on tricking the system into using 10.6 server tools. I can't imagine that 10.8 will be an improvement.

    So long as graphic designers and marketing people exist there is going to be some awful patchwork system to support their device choices.

    I just preferred when the awful patchwork system was being produced by Apple.
    Even if they allowed virtualization on non-Apple hardware, I'd be more than halfway to a decent solution.

    "lenny bruce is not afraid..."
    brush1rt1.jpg
  • FencingsaxFencingsax Registered User regular
    a5ehren wrote: »
    SammyF wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    That sucks, because I like TAL. But I saw this guy on Bill Maher a month or so ago, and I had a very hard time believing a single word coming out of his mouth.

    TAL has been extremely classy about this. They sent an email out to all their contributors, put a long explanation up on their website/social media and did an entire show as a retraction. If anything, I think they're coming away from this with their credibility enhanced.

    They also put out a press release to call attention to it. I found the retraction/correction on the front page for the online editions of The New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Chicago Sun-Times the day it came out. You know what you can't find on the front page for the online editions of any of those publications? The retractions or corrections that they have to print for their own content. This American Life takes its retractions and corrections more seriously than every other news media outlet in the nation combined.

    The retraction didn't even make it into my NYTimes RSS. This is literally the first I am hearing about this. That is shameful on the part of the NYTimes, since it ran a full series of articles on this issue.

    I don't think the NYT based their stories on this guys testimony, though. I think they did their own work.

    The TAL retraction episode actually talked about that.

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    SammyF wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    That sucks, because I like TAL. But I saw this guy on Bill Maher a month or so ago, and I had a very hard time believing a single word coming out of his mouth.

    TAL has been extremely classy about this. They sent an email out to all their contributors, put a long explanation up on their website/social media and did an entire show as a retraction. If anything, I think they're coming away from this with their credibility enhanced.

    They also put out a press release to call attention to it. I found the retraction/correction on the front page for the online editions of The New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Chicago Sun-Times the day it came out. You know what you can't find on the front page for the online editions of any of those publications? The retractions or corrections that they have to print for their own content. This American Life takes its retractions and corrections more seriously than every other news media outlet in the nation combined.

    The retraction didn't even make it into my NYTimes RSS. This is literally the first I am hearing about this. That is shameful on the part of the NYTimes, since it ran a full series of articles on this issue.

    I don't think the NYT based their stories on this guys testimony, though. I think they did their own work.

    The TAL retraction episode actually talked about that.

    Ah. Haven't heard it - was I right? :P

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • ElkiElki hegemon globalSuper Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    3 of the 5 publishers included in the suit have agreed to settle.

    And reading comments about this on the internet is pretty entertaining. People have no idea what price fixing is.

  • AtomikaAtomika Hypercritical Queen Bitch of Cinema Registered User regular
    Not really totally related to the issue at hand, but I was thinking today,

    "As great as the iPad is, shouldn't it be, you know, better?"


    My knowledge of such things isn't strong, but I'm just thinking form-factor wise that if the iPad is virtually indistinguishable internally from the iPhone or iPod, with four times the size in real estate, shouldn't the iPad be more awesomer?

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Elki wrote: »
    3 of the 5 publishers included in the suit have agreed to settle.

    And reading comments about this on the internet is pretty entertaining. People have no idea what price fixing is.

    If they settle, they pay out, what, 10% of what they made off the extra cash from price fixing? Then they pretend to fix the problem, but reinstate it in a different way as soon as possible?

    Darkewolfe on
    "Well, look at this. Appears we got here just in the nick of time. What's that make us?"
    "Big Damn Heroes, Sir."
    "Ain't we just."
  • templewulftemplewulf Registered User regular
    Not really totally related to the issue at hand, but I was thinking today,

    "As great as the iPad is, shouldn't it be, you know, better?"


    My knowledge of such things isn't strong, but I'm just thinking form-factor wise that if the iPad is virtually indistinguishable internally from the iPhone or iPod, with four times the size in real estate, shouldn't the iPad be more awesomer?

    Nothing infuriates Apple dedicates more than referring to an iPad as just a giant iPod Touch. Except for calling it the iTouch.

    In all honesty, I don't really care about how bad of a company Apple is, because they seem to be about as depraved as any other major manufacturer. The part that bothers me is how weird the cult gets in white knighting for them.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    templewulf wrote: »
    Not really totally related to the issue at hand, but I was thinking today,

    "As great as the iPad is, shouldn't it be, you know, better?"


    My knowledge of such things isn't strong, but I'm just thinking form-factor wise that if the iPad is virtually indistinguishable internally from the iPhone or iPod, with four times the size in real estate, shouldn't the iPad be more awesomer?

    Nothing infuriates Apple dedicates more than referring to an iPad as just a giant iPod Touch. Except for calling it the iTouch.

    In all honesty, I don't really care about how bad of a company Apple is, because they seem to be about as depraved as any other major manufacturer. The part that bothers me is how weird the cult gets in white knighting for them.

    That's probably because Apple relies so much on brand identity.

    And I don't know why Apple hasn't settled, because this is about as open and shut a case as it gets.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    templewulf wrote: »
    Not really totally related to the issue at hand, but I was thinking today,

    "As great as the iPad is, shouldn't it be, you know, better?"


    My knowledge of such things isn't strong, but I'm just thinking form-factor wise that if the iPad is virtually indistinguishable internally from the iPhone or iPod, with four times the size in real estate, shouldn't the iPad be more awesomer?

    Nothing infuriates Apple dedicates more than referring to an iPad as just a giant iPod Touch. Except for calling it the iTouch.

    In all honesty, I don't really care about how bad of a company Apple is, because they seem to be about as depraved as any other major manufacturer. The part that bothers me is how weird the cult gets in white knighting for them.

    as a 'casual' apple user who just owns an iphone and a macbook, without the lifestyle to support being a total apple devotee... never before have i owned a product where people would give me shit for it. i mean, calling apple fans smug- with that being the entirety of your presentation- seems a little weird. that smugness that (i admit) some of the fanbase possesses is largely interlinked with the existence of a huge number of angry, self-satisfied torvaldsdian neckbeards who give me shit for liking the products this one company makes. i like my guitar just as much as i like my macbook but since no one lords how customizable and 'for power users' their guitar is, and talks about how i'm a sucker for paying this much for my shiny, 'hamstrung' guitar... i never have arguments about my guitar!

    which is to say there are lots of idiots who fuel one another's idiocy. one serves as a counterpoint to the other.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • AtomikaAtomika Hypercritical Queen Bitch of Cinema Registered User regular
    I mean, don't get me wrong, I think the iPad is a great device. But I also own an iPod Touch, and other than pixel density and display size, I have no idea what the iPad is doing that the iPod can't.

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    templewulf wrote: »
    Not really totally related to the issue at hand, but I was thinking today,

    "As great as the iPad is, shouldn't it be, you know, better?"


    My knowledge of such things isn't strong, but I'm just thinking form-factor wise that if the iPad is virtually indistinguishable internally from the iPhone or iPod, with four times the size in real estate, shouldn't the iPad be more awesomer?

    Nothing infuriates Apple dedicates more than referring to an iPad as just a giant iPod Touch. Except for calling it the iTouch.

    In all honesty, I don't really care about how bad of a company Apple is, because they seem to be about as depraved as any other major manufacturer. The part that bothers me is how weird the cult gets in white knighting for them.

    Apple is the only company I know where customers treat the company's record-setting profits as if it's some sort of victory for them as customers.

    Whenever I go to the gas station, I don't hear a single person saying "OMG, it's so awesome that Exxon made $JUPITER last year! I know $4.50 a gallon adds up, but it's worth it if it means that Exxon has a bigger market cap than other energy companies. Suck it, solar power!"

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    I mean, don't get me wrong, I think the iPad is a great device. But I also own an iPod Touch, and other than pixel density and display size, I have no idea what the iPad is doing that the iPod can't.

    Form factor is married to functionality.

    If you had a wristwatch with all the power of your desktop, you probably aren't going to play WoW on it, even if it had the muscle.

    The split panel interface, and larger data entry apps, and content creation apps... and definitely some games (Like Sword and Sworcery and the upcoming Baldur's Gate Re-Release). These things demand more screen than even a 4" phone could provide.

  • AtomikaAtomika Hypercritical Queen Bitch of Cinema Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    I mean, don't get me wrong, I think the iPad is a great device. But I also own an iPod Touch, and other than pixel density and display size, I have no idea what the iPad is doing that the iPod can't.

    Form factor is married to functionality.

    If you had a wristwatch with all the power of your desktop, you probably aren't going to play WoW on it, even if it had the muscle.

    The split panel interface, and larger data entry apps, and content creation apps... and definitely some games (Like Sword and Sworcery and the upcoming Baldur's Gate Re-Release). These things demand more screen than even a 4" phone could provide.

    True, so I guess my issue is just size disparity. Something four times the size of something else should be X more times powerful/whatever, right?

This discussion has been closed.