[Fallout] New Vegas: Ultimate Edition is now out on Steam! Now you have no excuse.

The Dude With Herpes

The thing is that as long as it's at the cap (or 30 would make the most sense really, for various reasons), it's not a big deal.

No one is required to take it and it really wouldn't even make much of a difference from a gameplay perspective. It'd just be nice to have all 10's and all 100's for people with OCD like me.

I think it's a bit on the goosery side to say "better than that" like it's beneath them to put in something fun and optional.

Elendil

I guess at the cap it doesn't really change the vast majority of the time spent playing. Still, you can already be a Wasteland Jesus with a Wall's worth of gun's strapped to your back and more perks than God, I really can't understand the fixation with removing one of the few trade-offs you still have to make.

Although now that I think of it, wouldn't it have to be a level 35 or so perk? I find it hard to believe you'd be locked out of a perk unless you've gotten every single DLC.

Gaming-Freak

Continental_Op wrote:

Have we heard anything about Lonesome Road adding any new perks or traits? I want to do a second play through of FNV with a new character, but I don't want to just have to re-roll again once it comes out.

Also, what's the recommended SPECIAL set up for a guns/melee primary character looking to max out everything as fast as possible?

At the very least, they have new upgrades for ED-E that you can find for him. Also, the pics I put out earlier in Page 4 (that everyone seemed to ignore, GRRRR!) Shows a "General's Coat" outfit, and a unique missile launcher of sorts (decorated with the American flag symbol)

RoyallyFlushed

So I started playing New Vegas again recently after a long hiatus, and went through the Dead Money DLC I had long since had. The new environment was a nice change of pace (at first, before all the constant toxins and traps and collar interference) and the companions were interesting, but upon completion it didn't really feel like you got a whole lot in terms of valuable loot or such out of the deal. From glancing at the wiki, it seems Old World Blues has more to offer in that regard than Honest Hearts. Am I right in thinking so?

For what it's worth, my character was built as a sniper (Guns, Stealth, Critical Hit and VATS related perks, etc). But even "only" at lvl 35 I have all my skills rather high, so it's not like I can't wield a good laser rifle or whatnot. Was just curious since I was debating on either nabbing one of the other DLC or perhaps starting a fresh game with a new build.

Elendil

Honest Hearts is probably better for your purposes, loot-wise. An overall great selection of guns, including a fantastic silenceable pistol, as well as a Guns-boosting perk, Crit-chance boosting armor...

OWB does have a good sniper rifle though.

Gaming-Freak

Elendil wrote:

Honest Hearts is probably better for your purposes, loot-wise. An overall great selection of guns, including a fantastic silenceable pistol, as well as a Guns-boosting perk, Crit-chance boosting armor...

OWB does have a good sniper rifle though.

And a cool sneak suit that wants nothing more than to make you happy.... and probably the best dlc, story wise. I did enjoy Honest Hearts quite a bit, though.

Hahnsoo1

Honest Hearts is great for Guns characters. It gives you access to the Grunt perk along with the .45 ammo weapons (which are all near the top of their respective roles) and the Survivalist's Rifle. Old World Blues just gives you Christine's COS Sniper Rifle, which is good, but it's the only thing you'll get out of a Guns build. Well, that and the gag weapon of a Robot Dog that barks bullets. I wish I was joking. Still, in terms of DLC, you are always better off picking up Old World Blues above any of the other DLCs. It is the best DLC of any Fallout DLC so far.

In terms of good loot, I'd personally say that Old World Blues gives you the best loot (a little something something for all builds except Explosives), followed by Honest Hearts (great for Guns characters, mostly, although it has one of the best light armors in the game), and lastly Dead Money (which really is just a vending machine of things you already should have stockpiled and the Holo-Rifle. I guess the highest DT of light armors in the game, if you are into that sort of thing).

I can see Almost Perfect being a level 30 perk. I don't see them putting in perks that require a level higher than the original cap for the game. I honestly don't think it would make that much of a difference, overall, in terms of playing styles... the attributes that benefit the most from the perk would also be the same ones that aren't important to the person's build.

EDIT: I could also see it as being an acquired perk from kicking the ass of Ulysses from here to eternity. Boo yah! You are the (almost) perfect man! Just kidding.

Elendil

Hahnsoo1 wrote:

I can see Almost Perfect being a level 30 perk. I don't see them putting in perks that require a level higher than the original cap for the game. I honestly don't think it would make that much of a difference, overall, in terms of playing styles... the attributes that benefit the most from the perk would also be the same ones that aren't important to the person's build.

Pre-cap Almost Perfect would also make perk requirements a complete non-issue.

Hahnsoo1

Elendil wrote:

Hahnsoo1 wrote:

I can see Almost Perfect being a level 30 perk. I don't see them putting in perks that require a level higher than the original cap for the game. I honestly don't think it would make that much of a difference, overall, in terms of playing styles... the attributes that benefit the most from the perk would also be the same ones that aren't important to the person's build.

Pre-cap Almost Perfect would also make perk requirements a complete non-issue.

After level 30, does it really matter, though? I mean, I have a level 30 capped Logan's Loophole character with 100s in every skill except Explosives (caveat: I used to the Skilled glitch to do it, but even without it, that would mean 90s in every skill). I have all of the damage-boosting perks that I want, including Pyromaniac, Cowboy, and Piercing Strike. At that point (after level 30 on a non-Logan's Loophole character), the game only gets harder (at least, in Old World Blues and the other places with level scaling) as the opponents get tougher but your damage potential remains roughly the same. A few more unlocked perks and higher SPECIAL stats would only make a difference for unoptimized builds, ironically... since you didn't make an "almost perfect" character before that point, you need to burn a perk to do so.

Morninglord

That robot dog minigun absolutely destroys enemies and is not a joke gun by any means.

Hahnsoo1

Morninglord wrote:

That robot dog minigun absolutely destroys enemies and is not a joke gun by any means.

Compared to the equivalent options, it either weighs more, has less ROF, has less DPS (unless using custom Hand Loads, in which case it's still not on par with the CZ57 Avenger... assuming you can hit with all the bullets, which you won't be able to at range), smaller magazine, and higher spread than anything but the Automatic Rifle (and everything is pretty much better than the Automatic Rifle). The only thing that really saves the dog guns (other than the novelty) is Hand Load ammunition, but considering you can get cheaper 5mm ammo with higher natural AP (-10 for 5mm, -25 for AP 5mm) in bulk, the Avenger is a better choice all around for the lead sprayer role. The Minigun is more accurate and more likely to deal its full DPS at range and lasts longer with the highest magazine size. The Light Machine Gun has about the same accuracy, but higher clip capacity and ROF as the dog guns. The Automatic Rifle... well, it sucks, and everything is better than the Automatic Rifle.

They are fine weapons (Tier 2, at worst, and definitely near Top Tier when compared to ALL weapons), but they are definitely a bit of a downgrade compared the other weapons designed for that role.

Morninglord

WELL

*blusters*

I got told.

It's got a scope? It's pretty accurate with the scope? Also it's got the cutest little ears oh my gawd such a cutey. You can't put a tier on that. Yeah I got nothing.

Although, the default one does have 2 less strength requirement than the miniguns and is more accurate with hand load ammo than the light machine gun. So it's kind of a middle ground. The poor mans minigun. Wiv it's widdle nose thingy all sniffin out tha enemies awwwwwwwww <3

Hahnsoo1

Morninglord wrote:

It's got a scope? It's pretty accurate with the scope? Also it's got the cutest little ears oh my gawd such a cutey. You can't put a tier on that. Yeah I got nothing.

Indeed, you definitely cannot put a tier on that. Priceless. Who's a good boy? Huh? Who's a good boy? GOOD Boy! (I miss my dog. Even after 10 years)

MuddBudd

The problem with the K-9 minigun is they give it to you in a place where you basically have to use energy weapons if you don't want your face stung off by robots.

-edit- Also it breaks stealth when it makes it's little doggie noises.

override367

Finally installed IWS, it's crashy sometimes but lots of fun, warped to Mccarren and there were multiple units of 8-10 NCR engaging similar numbers of Fiends in a running battle to remove the fiends from existence



Really like it! Mostly because look at all the neat prizes that I found just lying around stuck to dead people

farbekrieg

IWS and medium spawns hates my machine so hard it crashes every hr or so -.-

i just pulled my mad scientist through OWB,

Spoiler:

and he is so disappointed in dr mobius, in fact he wishes he really could have taken mobius's brain and gave it a spin.

so even tho he is now 25 i have a heated saturnite fist and damn i want to change over to a unarmed character... must avoid... altisis (i need one of those xp reducers, i still havent gone inside new vegas, or done any of the other dlc yet).

Anyone else suffering from overleveling due to AWOP, IWS, Monster Mods, etc? Does vanilla also suffer from this problem? Anyone else feeling that pain, or have i once again traveled over into the world of masochism?

I just get so bothered when i can no longer lvl up, it sucks some of the fun right out of it (as does having an insanely high lvl cap, logans loophole maybe next time)

Can anyone recommend a good xp reducing mod?

Morninglord

MuddBudd wrote:

The problem with the K-9 minigun is they give it to you in a place where you basically have to use energy weapons if you don't want your face stung off by robots.

-edit- Also it breaks stealth when it makes it's little doggie noises.

I blew away most of the enemies in that dlc with the cybergun if my stealth ever broke. I immediately broke down its ammo into hand load though so that might have something to do with it.

UncleSporky

Hahnsoo1 wrote:

For SPECIAL, I'd recommend a minimum of a 5 Perception (+1 from Implant will give you the 6 you need for Better Criticals), a 7 Endurance (if you are using vanilla non-modded implants... you want all 7 SPECIAL Implants), a 1 Charisma (seriously, no need for this stat at all), a minimum of 4 Intelligence (for Comprehension and Educated), and a minimum of 5 Luck (+1 from Implant will give you 6 Luck, needed for Better Criticals... I generally roll with an 8 Luck on all my characters, which gives a 9 Luck with Implant and +5 to all skills). The rest of the SPECIAL distribution will be influenced highly by what perks you plan on getting. Are you going to be VATS-heavy? Are you never going to use VATS? Do you pick up the "Pack Rat"-type perks?

I think 7 endurance is a good idea, but not for the 7 SPECIAL implants - instead you forgo charisma (why bother getting a 2 in charisma?) and endurance (why get it to 8 when that doesn't even let you gain another implant?) and buy the two more expensive implants for DR and regeneration.

I love having 10 luck and think it's totally worth it, but maybe that's one to start at 8 at most and spend Intense Training on. I value skills but they're so easy to max now that I think starting at 7 int and implanting to 8 is the most you need to consider.

Just_Bri_Thanks

Min-maxing never appealed to me...

UncleSporky

Just_Bri_Thanks wrote:

Min-maxing never appealed to me...

I'm sure you do it all the time, though. You minimize undesired traits and maximize the ones that are important to you...after all, why would you choose a perk or put points into a skill that didn't appeal to you?

Essentially the only way not to min-max is to put points into things completely at random or intentionally raise everything equally, just to spite the act of min-maxing.

Dr. Phibbs McAthey

I'll just point out that there's a difference between picking what you like and extreme optimization, which is what these 'reduce [stat] to [low number] because you'll never need it, increase [other stats] so that you can later get [this other thing] that you wouldn't otherwise have been able to get' builds are.
To each their own, I say, especially when you're not affecting anyone else's fun, but I think that's what JBT was getting at.

UncleSporky

In that case I'm not talking about min-maxing either - I'm not putting int at 10, only putting it at a reasonable level like 7. The only thing I really would emphatically min is charisma.

Dr. Phibbs McAthey

Dr. Phibbs McAthey wrote:

I'll just point out that there's a difference between picking what you like and extreme optimization, which is what these 'reduce [stat] to [low number] because you'll never need it, increase [other stats] so that you can later get [this other thing] that you wouldn't otherwise have been able to get' builds are.
To each their own, I say, especially when you're not affecting anyone else's fun, but I think that's what JBT was getting at.

Gaming-Freak

So the Skilled Trait is really fucking awesome. I'm talking "Oh man, why couldn't this be in the vanilla game!?" But OWB is awesome like that, I guess. Plus simply choosing one rank of Swift Learner almost completely nullifies the negative effect (you notice a 1% decrease in over-all XP, which is so minor it's laughable).

I think I'm going with my new character until Lonesome Road is available. Then I'll pull out my level 42 character and finish this stuff up.

UncleSporky

Perhaps a more appropriate complaint from Bri would be the act of metagaming, making decisions based on stats and percentages rather than role playing. It's not exactly the same thing as min-maxing; you can take a perk because it sounds like it will increase your damage output without knowing if it's a truly optimal choice, and also not because you think it's something your character would do.

Dr. Phibbs McAthey

Gaming-Freak wrote:

So the Skilled Trait is really fucking awesome. I'm talking "Oh man, why couldn't this be in the vanilla game!?" But OWB is awesome like that, I guess. Plus simply choosing one rank of Swift Learner almost completely nullifies the negative effect (you notice a 1% decrease in over-all XP, which is so minor it's laughable).

I think I'm going with my new character until Lonesome Road is available. Then I'll pull out my level 42 character and finish this stuff up.

I really like Skilled too. The character I started yesterday has it, and I don't plan on picking up Swift Learn because I actually like the (admittedly only slightly) slower level-ups. I went into HH at 15 and immediately went into OWB, and came out at level 32. Which means that Vanilla is so easy as to be laughable, one-shot facepunching Deathclaws with the superheated saturnite fist.

Just_Bri_Thanks

UncleSporky wrote:

Perhaps a more appropriate complaint from Bri would be the act of metagaming, making decisions based on stats and percentages rather than role playing. It's not exactly the same thing as min-maxing; you can take a perk because it sounds like it will increase your damage output without knowing if it's a truly optimal choice, and also not because you think it's something your character would do.

You say to-may-toe and I say to-mah-toe

Elderlycrawfish

Maybe it's just me, but I found the regen implant to be less than worthless. if you're talking about bang for your buck, you're better off buying any other implant and picking up a few stimpaks with the spare change.

As for all the min-max/optimum build stuff, I figure its pretty moot when the DLCs will have added 20 levels more. Getting skills all up is pretty much a given, and unless you got some really weird SPECIAL allocations, that's not going to be an issue either.

Skilled is an awesome trait, even if you don't exploit it. The exp loss seemed so neglible to me that I wouldn't even consider taking swift learner. YMMV I guess.

Oh, and Gaming-Freak, we weren't really discussing the sweet LR pics you posted on the previous page because, well, we were already gushing about them in the last Fallout thread. It's some pretty awesome stuff though that a bunch of us are excited about.

UncleSporky

Elderlycrawfish wrote:

Maybe it's just me, but I found the regen implant to be less than worthless. if you're talking about bang for your buck, you're better off buying any other implant and picking up a few stimpaks with the spare change.

Well again maybe this is just me, but I wander around enough that it's nice to know that despite being half health now I'll be back to full by the time I'm to the point where I get hurt again.

I guess it's not useful for hardcore players because they have to sleep regularly anyway, probably make a habit of sleeping every time they're hurt just to stay topped off.

Machismo

Honest Hearts is so amazing. What a great map. It looks fantastic.
I hope this DLC is as good as it starts.

I climbed a mountain and just looked off to my far-away destination. It felt good, knowing that it was going to be a long, exciting walk. What a view, too!

Dr. Phibbs McAthey

You don't recover HP from sleeping in Hardcore. Unless it's an owned bed.

UncleSporky

Dr. Phibbs McAthey wrote:

You don't recover HP from sleeping in Hardcore. Unless it's an owned bed.

Right. People just warp to their owned beds, I assume.

Dr. Phibbs McAthey

I guess they could. You don't have an owned bed until Novac (unless you mod in a home before that). I think I've slept in an owned bed once, otherwise I just keep food and hydra (or healing poultices, Post-Honest Hearts) for heals.

UncleSporky

You can't buy the implant until long after you've had the opportunity for one or two owned beds, I guess I thought people would be taking advantage of that in hardcore. If not, then maybe that implant is just all the more useful for hardcore. Did you pick it up?

Elderlycrawfish

I just shrug it off and spit the bullets out after my body expels them.

Nah, I just, you know, bring food and supplies to heal with. I do tend to take Them's Good Eatin nowadays, so I've got a near constant source of healing material/cash cow just from fighting anything living. While it doesn't count as food, it's pretty strong healing stuff with relatively low weight and high resale value.

edit: I've picked up the regen implant on one of my hardcore runs once. Wasn't really worth it, compared to just bringing some decent food/healing powder/stimpak along instead. That's why it's pretty much a waste of implant/cash to me.

Orca

I get it, because why the fuck not? But healing really isn't much of an issue, beyond the very early game.

MuddBudd

Machismo wrote:

Honest Hearts is so amazing. What a great map. It looks fantastic.
I hope this DLC is as good as it starts.

I climbed a mountain and just looked off to my far-away destination. It felt good, knowing that it was going to be a long, exciting walk. What a view, too!

"Oh look, a bridge"

*5 spawns at once

Hahnsoo1

I typically get the Charisma implant, even though Charisma is "worthless", only because it gives me 2 more points in Barter and Speech, and I need those points more than I need the regen implant. I also typically get 8 Endurance, because I like wearing Light Armor and so I end up picking up the Subdermal Armor on top of the SPECIAL implants. You get so much DT by the time you are all kitted out, though, that unless you are up against a Deathclaw, it doesn't matter if you are wearing a full Light Armor kit or a Heavy Armor kit.

On Hardcore, the gradual regen isn't really all that worth it, ironically. You are stuffing your face with food and water all the time, which gives you all the healing that you need in between fights. There really is an abundance of healing in the game.

For me, calculating the optimal loadouts and stats for a particular build is part of the joy of playing the "game" portion of a roleplaying game, especially if it's something particularly difficult like trying to get all skills to 100 in a Logan's Loophole build. If the game portion didn't matter, I'd just be screwing around in Garry's Mod or Second Life instead of playing Fallout. But it does matter, and it's part of why I play RPGs, both on the computer screen and at the tabletop.

Dr. Phibbs McAthey

To be honest I've actually never gotten an implant. I'm ridiculously stingy when it comes to caps and I always got along fine without them.

Hahnsoo1

Dr. Phibbs McAthey wrote:

To be honest I've actually never gotten an implant. I'm ridiculously stingy when it comes to caps and I always got along fine without them.

My typical response is "What else are you going to spend them on?" The only two things that I can think of are the occasional weapon purchase and ammunition. Unless you guys have a REALLY bad prostitute and drug habit.