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PAX Prime Suggestions Thread

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Posts

  • TangoTango Registered User
    edited September 2011
    Unfortunately, Maradine is no longer an Enforcer. (Nothing controversial; he bowed out to concentrate on his non-PAX life more, after moving away from Seattle.)

    Tango on
  • dyaballikldyaballikl PAX Main Theatre House & Security Manager • PAX Community Cartographer Gold Coast QLD AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Tango wrote:
    Unfortunately, Maradine is no longer an Enforcer. (Nothing controversial; he bowed out to concentrate on his non-PAX life more, after moving away from Seattle.)
    As this got bumped to the next page, it is necessary to note that Tango is talking about Maradine, the Enforcer who organized the Steel Battalion "department" of PAX.

    a.k.a. dya
    "Riding a mongoose reminds me of having sex with a man, which is something I do frequently because I am gay!" -Gabe
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    Yea, I know. I can still hope for a miracle though. Hope everything is going good for the guy.

    notoriusben_zpsa205e831.png
  • WedgeWedge Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Lastly, on a personal request... Maradine... please bring back Steel Battalion MetaCampaign. I will give money to make this happen in 2012.
    Tango wrote:
    Unfortunately, Maradine is no longer an Enforcer. (Nothing controversial; he bowed out to concentrate on his non-PAX life more, after moving away from Seattle.)

    As was mentioned, Maradine retired from enforcing. Nevertheless, there are other people who would be willing to run this, the problem is more the resources and space required (TVs, power, enforcers for every shift, etc.) and this has to compete with all of the other activities going on at PAX, which can make it a pretty tough sale. A metacampaign in exactly the same form as was done is extremely unlikely to happen again in the future though some form of SB freeplay is still on our radar but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

    Wedge on
    Give a man fire and he has fire for a day, set a man on fire and he has fire for the rest of his life.
  • TOGSolidTOGSolid I don my top hat, and adjust my monocle, Like a god damn sir.Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Wedge wrote:
    Lastly, on a personal request... Maradine... please bring back Steel Battalion MetaCampaign. I will give money to make this happen in 2012.
    Tango wrote:
    Unfortunately, Maradine is no longer an Enforcer. (Nothing controversial; he bowed out to concentrate on his non-PAX life more, after moving away from Seattle.)

    As was mentioned, Maradine retired from enforcing. Nevertheless, there are other people who would be willing to run this, the problem is more the resources and space required (TVs, power, enforcers for every shift, etc.) and this has to compete with all of the other activities going on at PAX, which can make it a pretty tough sale. A metacampaign in exactly the same form as was done is extremely unlikely to happen again in the future though some form of SB freeplay is still on our radar but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

    How would it be a tough sale? The campaign room from last year wasn't being used this year at all and the SB campaign/training last year was immensely popular.

    I had found out where Lord General Maradine had gotten off to while I was at PAX and am contemplating if it's feasible for me to take up the reigns and run it next year. The only real hitch, tbh, is my weird work schedule that may make organizing the whole shebang a bit of a bitch. Imma send an email to the PAX Gods and see what our divine overlords have to say about the whole thing and then go from there.

    TOGSolid on
  • whypick1whypick1 [E] ~2' from an LCDRegistered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote:
    ...The campaign room from last year wasn't being used this year at all...

    No, that space was definitely taken up by Expo hall.

    Is it PAX <insert nearest future PAX here> yet?
  • TOGSolidTOGSolid I don my top hat, and adjust my monocle, Like a god damn sir.Registered User regular
    whypick1 wrote:
    TOGSolid wrote:
    ...The campaign room from last year wasn't being used this year at all...

    No, that space was definitely taken up by Expo hall.

    I can't see that picture at work for some peculiar reason. Anyway, I distinctly remember walking by the old SB area and seeing the room separators closed off. I tend to be hungover most of PAX anyways so I'm prolly wrong.

  • jonxpjonxp [E] Alumnus Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    TOGSolid wrote:
    whypick1 wrote:
    TOGSolid wrote:
    ...The campaign room from last year wasn't being used this year at all...

    No, that space was definitely taken up by Expo hall.

    I can't see that picture at work for some peculiar reason. Anyway, I distinctly remember walking by the old SB area and seeing the room separators closed off. I tend to be hungover most of PAX anyways so I'm prolly wrong.

    Depending on the time of day that you walked by, you may have witnessed a closed 6th floor expo hall, and not an unused section of the convention center.

    jonxp on
    Every time you write parallel fifths, Bach kills a kitten.
    3DS Friend Code: 2707-1614-5576
    PAX Prime 2014 Buttoneering!
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Wow, seeing those maps side by side is depressing.

  • zerzhulzerzhul Old General Registered User, Moderator mod
    mcdermott wrote:
    Wow, seeing those maps side by side is depressing.

    It is also indicative of what the maps *should* look like to be useful, with all the interior spaces drawn in. The fancy cute color schemes like on the official maps could even be added in, and we'd have a good map!

  • TangoTango Registered User
    Credit should go to dyaballikl for those maps, by the way.

  • SmallLadySmallLady Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Double the cost of the tickets, get a lot more space, and have the top few MAJOR games setup significantly more computers. (The major games are pretty easy to predict even a year in advance, by and large.) Nobody wants to find out a line for playing a game is closed for the whole day 20 minutes after the place opens. (SWTOR on Saturday)

    Seriously, the tickets are just flat-out too cheap right now. Much more space is needed for the top 3-5 games each year. Hell, even triple the ticket cost and help subsidize the cost of having gaming machines available at the booths for playing games on, if that's what it takes. PAX is still an enjoyable experience, but good God, some lessons need to be learned from major theme parks in terms of managing the lines for rides.

    Also, those of you that are just plain cheap, don't tell me you can't afford a higher ticket cost or whatever. $60 for a 3-day pass? Are you kidding me? I can't even go to a fine steakhouse for that, but it gets me 24 hours inside the Expo center over the course of three days? A lot of people fly in from around the country and end up spending a bare minimum of 10 times (and more like 20-40 times) the cost of their ticket on airfare, lodging and food for the event. Doubling or tripling the ticket price has no real impact. I live in Kirkland, just 20 minutes from downtown Seattle, and even I spent more on just food and gas than the cost of the three-day pass.

    Please, bump up the ticket prices significantly and provide a much better experience in terms of line queues at popular games. :) This isn't McDonald's, we don't need a proverbial 99-cent cheeseburger on the menu.

    FYI, there is already a suggestions thread and your post will likely be moved there soon. :)

    Also, just so you know, exhibitors pay for their space at PAX and get to do what they like with it, which is unfortunate for games that are very popular. They just can't accommodate everyone.

    SmallLady on
    "we're just doing what smalllady told us to do" - @Heels
  • Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Moderator mod
    edited September 2011
    Double the cost of the tickets, get a lot more space, and have the top few MAJOR games setup significantly more computers. (The major games are pretty easy to predict even a year in advance, by and large.) Nobody wants to find out a line for playing a game is closed for the whole day 20 minutes after the place opens. (SWTOR on Saturday)

    Seriously, the tickets are just flat-out too cheap right now. Much more space is needed for the top 3-5 games each year. Hell, even triple the ticket cost and help subsidize the cost of having gaming machines available at the booths for playing games on, if that's what it takes. PAX is still an enjoyable experience, but good God, some lessons need to be learned from major theme parks in terms of managing the lines for rides.

    Also, those of you that are just plain cheap, don't tell me you can't afford a higher ticket cost or whatever. $60 for a 3-day pass? Are you kidding me? I can't even go to a fine steakhouse for that, but it gets me 24 hours inside the Expo center over the course of three days? A lot of people fly in from around the country and end up spending a bare minimum of 10 times (and more like 20-40 times) the cost of their ticket on airfare, lodging and food for the event. Doubling or tripling the ticket price has no real impact. I live in Kirkland, just 20 minutes from downtown Seattle, and even I spent more on just food and gas than the cost of the three-day pass.

    Please, bump up the ticket prices significantly and provide a much better experience in terms of line queues at popular games. :) This isn't McDonald's, we don't need a proverbial 99-cent cheeseburger on the menu.

    I'm going to hit these point by point, my responses are in bold:

    Double to cost of tickets: Probably not going to happen

    Get a lot more space: There is no more space to be got, aside from a handful of hotel ballrooms, I don't know where you think more space is coming from, but PAX has just about maxed out the space available to them.

    Have the top few MAJOR games setup significantly more computers: This is a cost issue based on what developers are willing to spend for booth space, demo machines, etc. You can't just tell them "hey have more demo stations." That's not how that works. Exhibitors decide on how much space they are willing to buy and they build a booth for that space. PAX doesn't decide what they put in that space any more than your landlord decides what furniture you buy for your apartment.

    Hell, even triple the ticket cost and help subsidize the cost of having gaming machines available at the booths for playing games on: Again, PAX does not pay for nor do they dictate demo machines. These are provided by the exhibitors and their partners, and paid for by them, not by PAX.

    A lot of people fly in from around the country and end up spending a bare minimum of 10 times (and more like 20-40 times) the cost of their ticket on airfare, lodging and food for the event: PAX prides itself for not being E3 or any other exclusive convention where you have to give your firstborn child just to get into the center. Yes people spend a lot of money to travel to PAX, it doesn't mean they should be required to also spend a lot of money just to get into the convention center.

    Please, bump up the ticket prices significantly and provide a much better experience in terms of line queues at popular games: Again, raising ticket prices does not automatically mean fewer lines and more demo stations.

    Moe Fwacky on
  • tsrblketsrblke Registered User regular
    @Moe Fwacky

    In regards to the top major games, I suppose we could always direct our feedback to the actual companies. (Not sure it'd do much good but at least it'd be pointing the laser blaseter in the right direction)

    That being said, I would support a ticket price increase that at least makes a certain amount of sense. Currently if you plan on going 2 days it's beneficial to buy the 3 day pass even if you don't intend on going at all on the 3rd day. A more practical pricing structure would make the 3rd day discounted, not the second day discounted (and the 3rd day effectively free). This may also free up some more passes from people who bought 3 day passes with no intent of showing up on either friday or Sunday (Travel and such).

  • RolandDeschainRolandDeschain Registered User
    edited September 2011
    My replies to your responses are in italics.
    Moe Fwacky wrote:
    I'm going to hit these point by point, my responses are in bold:

    Double to cost of tickets: Probably not going to happen What's a good reason not to? I don't buy the "make it available to as many people as possible" argument if that is indeed part of it, as you're already admitting you can't make it larger and it sells out very quickly.

    Get a lot more space: There is no more space to be got, aside from a handful of hotel ballrooms, I don't know where you think more space is coming from, but PAX has just about maxed out the space available to them. There are only two main floors with huge exhibition halls, but there is a fair amount more space available than was used by PAX when counting the meeting rooms on floors other than 4 & 6. I'm not sure if that space was unavailable because of other people having reserved it first or if it was just deemed not open enough for PAX to bother with or what, but there's definitely more space there; granted, definitely not as good as the open exhibition halls. Also, perhaps selling less badges at a higher cost would be something to consider? How about separating the free play PC area into a different building, or just splitting everything in half? The CenturyLink Events Center has quite a bit of exhibition hall-style open space available, and it's a 1.5 mile walk to there from the Washington State Convention & Trade Center. (WSCTC) The CenturyLink Events Center's west hall is 165,370 square feet of space, the east hall is 90,185 and the concourse is 36,860. This may even provide more total space than the WSCTC. The WSCTC has about 275,000 square feet between levels 4 and 6 including lobbies, and excluding the smaller meeting rooms on the 6th floor. Splitting between the two could work out beautifully, unless you feel a 1.5 mile walk is a deal-breaker. (Us nerds could use the exercise, anyways.)

    Have the top few MAJOR games setup significantly more computers: This is a cost issue based on what developers are willing to spend for booth space, demo machines, etc. You can't just tell them "hey have more demo stations." That's not how that works. Exhibitors decide on how much space they are willing to buy and they build a booth for that space. PAX doesn't decide what they put in that space any more than your landlord decides what furniture you buy for your apartment. Hence, why I suggested a possible subsidy with increased ticket prices. Wireless carriers like Verizon subsidize phones with legal stipulations, why couldn't you and make it completely optional to the companies purchasing booth space? Perhaps say we'll charge you X dollars for the same space you used last year, or buy double that amount of space with a rider in the contract that there be at least 60% more computers, yet you only pay 25% more total cost, rather than double the cost for double the space.

    Hell, even triple the ticket cost and help subsidize the cost of having gaming machines available at the booths for playing games on: Again, PAX does not pay for nor do they dictate demo machines. These are provided by the exhibitors and their partners, and paid for by them, not by PAX. I get that; but again, subsidize in other ways with a rider/clause requiring more machines, and it's completely optional if they want to get the larger, upgraded space.

    A lot of people fly in from around the country and end up spending a bare minimum of 10 times (and more like 20-40 times) the cost of their ticket on airfare, lodging and food for the event: PAX prides itself for not being E3 or any other exclusive convention where you have to give your firstborn child just to get into the center. Yes people spend a lot of money to travel to PAX, it doesn't mean they should be required to also spend a lot of money just to get into the convention center. I don't see the benefit of having such low prices. Is it a marketing thing to try and publicly appeal "to the little man", or what? Everyone I know that went to PAX, when I asked them after it was over if they'd pay double the ticket price to have considerably shorter lines to stand in for playing games, all said they would gladly do it; and most of them don't make good money. I think you guys might be a little off-base in terms of what the majority of your attendees really want in regards to this, though I could definitely be wrong. (Let me repeat that: I may be wrong, I just don't think I am, lol.) Hmmm...spend $120 for a 3-day pass instead of $60, and get to play twice as many games and spend significantly less time in line? Yes, please.

    Please, bump up the ticket prices significantly and provide a much better experience in terms of line queues at popular games: Again, raising ticket prices does not automatically mean fewer lines and more demo stations. Nope, but it could. ;)

    I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, I had a fun time at PAX; but when the lines at the most popular attractions at every theme park in the country pale in comparison to what's at the popular game booths at PAX, I just have to think that's not acceptable. I can't even imagine the frustration many people felt at PAX East, which was way worse for SWTOR than PAX Prime was.

    P.S., I spoke with two guys that flew in from the other side of the country while we were waiting in line and they were there for Saturday only, and wanted to play SWTOR. It was the main reason they came. We were all in line 2 hours and 20 minutes early, and walking as fast as possible straight to the SWTOR booth still resulted in the line being closed for the day. If that were me, I'd be very, very unhappy with that experience. Flying in from the east coast? $300 minimum for a round-trip ticket. One hotel room within reasonable walking distance of the WSCTC for one night? $200 minimum. PAX one-day badge? $25. Price of not being able to do the one thing you went on the whole trip for because of ridiculous lines? Priceless, because one can't put a price on the bad health effects of having your blood pressure go that high. ;)

    Luckily, I got to play SWTOR a couple of times on Friday; but I'm sure there are quite a few people with similar stories as the aforementioned one.

    RolandDeschain on
  • Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Moderator mod
    I hate to be that guy, but flying across the country for a chance to play one game is doing PAX wrong. PAX is about so much more than AAA games at expo and there's so much more to enjoy than just those games.

    Those games will get tons of media coverage and have more gameplay videos and interviews and who knows what else. Personally, I don't need to play the big AAA games at PAX to know if I'm going to buy them or not, and I can wait for release before doing so. I'm sorry those two guys spent all that time and money coming out to PAX to do one thing and weren't able to do it. Personally, there's so much going on at PAX that I can't imagine only doing one thing, and if there is one thing I absolutely am super-excited about seeing and I miss it, I don't stress it, because there's still ALL OF PAX to experience.

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Moe Fwacky wrote:
    Double the cost of the tickets, get a lot more space, and have the top few MAJOR games setup significantly more computers. (The major games are pretty easy to predict even a year in advance, by and large.) Nobody wants to find out a line for playing a game is closed for the whole day 20 minutes after the place opens. (SWTOR on Saturday)

    Seriously, the tickets are just flat-out too cheap right now. Much more space is needed for the top 3-5 games each year. Hell, even triple the ticket cost and help subsidize the cost of having gaming machines available at the booths for playing games on, if that's what it takes. PAX is still an enjoyable experience, but good God, some lessons need to be learned from major theme parks in terms of managing the lines for rides.

    Also, those of you that are just plain cheap, don't tell me you can't afford a higher ticket cost or whatever. $60 for a 3-day pass? Are you kidding me? I can't even go to a fine steakhouse for that, but it gets me 24 hours inside the Expo center over the course of three days? A lot of people fly in from around the country and end up spending a bare minimum of 10 times (and more like 20-40 times) the cost of their ticket on airfare, lodging and food for the event. Doubling or tripling the ticket price has no real impact. I live in Kirkland, just 20 minutes from downtown Seattle, and even I spent more on just food and gas than the cost of the three-day pass.

    Please, bump up the ticket prices significantly and provide a much better experience in terms of line queues at popular games. :) This isn't McDonald's, we don't need a proverbial 99-cent cheeseburger on the menu.

    ...

    Have the top few MAJOR games setup significantly more computers: This is a cost issue based on what developers are willing to spend for booth space, demo machines, etc. You can't just tell them "hey have more demo stations." That's not how that works. Exhibitors decide on how much space they are willing to buy and they build a booth for that space. PAX doesn't decide what they put in that space any more than your landlord decides what furniture you buy for your apartment.

    Moe, this is the only part I have to disagree with. I don't think it's worthwhile for PAX to micromanage booths to nearly this extent, but to my knowledge (and correct me if I'm wrong) PAX gets the space from the convention center, and the exhibitors get their space from PAX. There's no real reason they can't dictate the number of demo machines that a given booth would be required to have, other than the fact that it would piss the exhibitor off.

    But then you have to ask who benefits more, the exhibitor or PAX. I wonder if certain exhibitors who have had repeated problems with this (Valve comes to mind first for me, but they're not alone) would take their ball and go home if you required them to provide the capacity to move X number of people through demos in Y time (whether through expanding number of machines, or limiting length of demos).

    I still don't think it's worth it, but it's not like it couldn't be done. And unlike an apartment, where the landlord has no real incentive to force you to buy a couch if you don't want to (it's not like it hurts your neighbors any), at PAX your furniture-buying decisions can affect everybody else's experience. There is some incentive to exert some level of control over what vendors do with their booths.

    Probably still best left at restrictions, rather than positive requirements (for instance, the no-booth-babe policy...and a no-closed-booth policy would fit nicely under this). You'll have a lot more luck with a limited list of what a vendor can't do rather than trying to actually require them to actively provide/do anything.

  • Steel FireSteel Fire Gunboat Diplomat PAI MarketingRegistered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Double to cost of tickets: Probably not going to happen What's a good reason not to? I don't buy the "make it available to as many people as possible" argument if that is indeed part of it, as you're already admitting you can't make it larger and it sells out very quickly.[/i]

    Higher ticket prices makes PAX non-inclusive, which is going against what PAX is about. Sure, maybe you and I wouldn't blink too hard at $120-$130 for a 3-day pass (actually I would but PAX is my vacation so I splurge a little) but what about the families that go? Three or four 3-day badges at $120 each is going to break the deal for them, especially if they have to travel. What about the folks who can only afford to go because the badge is cheap, they scrape together barely enough for a plane ticket and they room up with 3-5 other people to split the hotel cost? Yes, they do exist; should we tell them to take a hike now because you don't want to stand in line as long?
    Have the top few MAJOR games setup significantly more computers: This is a cost issue based on what developers are willing to spend for booth space, demo machines, etc. You can't just tell them "hey have more demo stations." That's not how that works. Exhibitors decide on how much space they are willing to buy and they build a booth for that space. PAX doesn't decide what they put in that space any more than your landlord decides what furniture you buy for your apartment. Hence, why I suggested a possible subsidy with increased ticket prices. Wireless carriers like Verizon subsidize phones with legal stipulations, why couldn't you and make it completely optional to the companies purchasing booth space? Perhaps say we'll charge you X dollars for the same space you used last year, or buy double that amount of space with a rider in the contract that there be at least 60% more, yet you only pay 25% more total cost, rather than double the cost for double the space.

    This isn't just about cost either, most developers don't just build those booths for PAX and therefore PAX isn't their only consideration. Another thing PAX prides itself on is being able to offer up such a variety of exhibitors and vendors to suit the desires of all of us. If you want someone to have more demo stations then they need more space for the stations and for the people to use them. As we all know the space is all used up now, so which developers and vendors do you propose we tell to buzz off, which segment of gamers do you propose to alienate?
    P.S., I spoke with two guys that flew in from the other side of the country while we were waiting in line and they were there for Saturday only, and wanted to play SWTOR. It was the main reason they came. We were all in line 2 hours and 20 minutes early, and walking as fast as possible straight to the SWTOR booth still resulted in the line being closed for the day. If that were me, I'd be very, very unhappy with that experience. Flying in from the east coast? $300 minimum for a round-trip ticket. One hotel room within reasonable walking distance of the WSCTC for one night? $200 minimum. PAX one-day badge? $25. Price of not being able to do the one thing you went on the whole trip for because of ridiculous lines? Priceless, because one can't put a price on the bad health effects of having your blood pressure go that high. ;)

    Sucks to be them but if they flew into PAX for one day to see one thing then they are doing it wrong. PAX is about variety, so much variety in fact that we are all forced to make tough decisions on what we can fit in and what we must sacrifice. This is truth. This is known. They chose to make the investment to fly cross-country for the busiest day of PAX specifically to see what was destined to be one of the most popular games so that was a risk they decided to take.



    Steel Fire on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Moe Fwacky wrote:
    Sucks to be them but if they flew into PAX for one day to see one thing then they are doing it wrong. PAX is about variety, so much variety in fact that we are all forced to make tough decisions on what we can fit in and what we must sacrifice. This is truth. This is known. They chose to make the investment to fly cross-country for the busiest day of PAX specifically to see what was destined to be one of the most popular games so that was a risk they decided to take.

    At the same time, they did decide what they could fit in, and what they must sacrifice. They were willing to sacrifice everything else in order to see one thing. That they were unable to do so is a little messed up.

    Flying across country to see a single AAA booth is silly, and is doing PAX "wrong," but the fact that an attendee who wants nothing more than to get into a single booth can be excluded from that is a bit disheartening. That's a sign that that booth isn't pushing people through fast enough, and is thus screwing over the attendees.

  • RolandDeschainRolandDeschain Registered User
    SWTOR isn't the ONLY thing they went there for, it was just more important than everything else they did go there for, combined. Everyone has their own opinions as to what PAX should be for them, I don't think you can flat-out say "You're doing it wrong." because you disagree with someone's personal reasons for attending...

    That being said, @Steel Fire, come on; look at the total cost of a family of 4 going to PAX for the weekend, even doubling the ticket prices is a SERIOUS minority of the total they are spending if they're coming in from out of state. If they're local and driving there each day, alright, but big deal; give a discount for the kids and charge the higher prices. Everyone knows when PAX is. Save up a little farther in advance.

    In regards to people that can barely scrape the $ together for a planet ticket, hotel and PAX tickets? Again...save a little farther out...You've got a year to save for it, if it's that important.

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    SWTOR isn't the ONLY thing they went there for, it was just more important than everything else they did go there for, combined. Everyone has their own opinions as to what PAX should be for them, I don't think you can flat-out say "You're doing it wrong." because you disagree with someone's personal reasons for attending...

    That being said, @Steel Fire, come on; look at the total cost of a family of 4 going to PAX for the weekend, even doubling the ticket prices is a SERIOUS minority of the total they are spending if they're coming in from out of state. If they're local and driving there each day, alright, but big deal; give a discount for the kids and charge the higher prices. Everyone knows when PAX is. Save up a little farther in advance.

    How would you do a kid's pass? Different color? How would you verify age before sending them out? Or would you have Enforcers checking ID at the door, and around the con?

    Plus, you've just made the badge non-transferable, or at least not transferable to another adult. Makes buying them a pretty large commitment.
    In regards to people that can barely scrape the $ together for a planet ticket, hotel and PAX tickets? Again...save a little farther out...You've got a year to save for it, if it's that important.

    Saving up a grand, even over the course of a year, can be pretty tough for some people. Might want to consider that.

  • EmpharaEmphara Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    In regards to people that can barely scrape the $ together for a planet ticket, hotel and PAX tickets? Again...save a little farther out...You've got a year to save for it, if it's that important.

    Some of us are teenagers/young adults with part time minimum wage jobs. And full time students. It's not just a matter of starting saving earlier. If you're paying for everything and you don't have a ton of savings then it's going to be hard enough to save for PAX even without a 2x or 3x higher ticket price. And that's with sharing a room and gas money with at least 3-4 people. Plus, raising the price of the tickets doesn't guarantee shorter lines. It just means that people with lower incomes won't be able to go and that people with higher incomes and more recourses will be able to go. I'm sure tickets will still sell out and that PAX will still be just as crowded. You will just have weeded out students, younger people, and people with lower incomes.

    Emphara on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Emphara wrote:
    I'm sure tickets will still sell out and that PAX will still be just as crowded. You will just have weeded out students, younger people, and people with lower incomes.

    Well, if you charge a higher price you can have less attendees. It's an option.

    But then we're back to the "completely goes against everything PAX is about" argument.

  • burnttoast45burnttoast45 Registered User regular
    That being said, @Steel Fire, come on; look at the total cost of a family of 4 going to PAX for the weekend, even doubling the ticket prices is a SERIOUS minority of the total they are spending if they're coming in from out of state. If they're local and driving there each day, alright, but big deal; give a discount for the kids and charge the higher prices. Everyone knows when PAX is. Save up a little farther in advance.

    In regards to people that can barely scrape the $ together for a planet ticket, hotel and PAX tickets? Again...save a little farther out...You've got a year to save for it, if it's that important.

    But what if you're already saving up a year's budget for pax? Sure we do see minute increases due to rising costs, but either way you cut it, as the price goes up so does exclusion. As a wise man once said, "Compared to the rest of the universe, we're the good guys."

  • DangeresquetooDangeresquetoo Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    "Compared to the rest of the universe, we're the good guys."


    NEVER FORGET!!!!!!!!

    Dangeresquetoo on
  • chupamiubrechupamiubre Registered User regular
    That being said, @Steel Fire, come on; look at the total cost of a family of 4 going to PAX for the weekend, even doubling the ticket prices is a SERIOUS minority of the total they are spending if they're coming in from out of state. If they're local and driving there each day, alright, but big deal; give a discount for the kids and charge the higher prices. Everyone knows when PAX is. Save up a little farther in advance.

    In regards to people that can barely scrape the $ together for a planet ticket, hotel and PAX tickets? Again...save a little farther out...You've got a year to save for it, if it's that important.

    But what if you're already saving up a year's budget for pax? Sure we do see minute increases due to rising costs, but either way you cut it, as the price goes up so does exclusion. As a wise man once said, "Compared to the rest of the universe, we're the good guys."

    NEVER FORGET

    <ZeroHourHero> I have a tiny penis
    <Qs23> I just need to get my dicks in a row
    <prox> i work for dicks
    #paforums_pax, all about the dicks.
  • EmpharaEmphara Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote:
    Emphara wrote:
    I'm sure tickets will still sell out and that PAX will still be just as crowded. You will just have weeded out students, younger people, and people with lower incomes.

    Well, if you charge a higher price you can have less attendees. It's an option.

    But then we're back to the "completely goes against everything PAX is about" argument.

    I don't know what the average income for a PAX goer is (although I'd be willing to be there's a decent range) but you probably have a better idea of whether people would still buy them out or not. (Me being 18 and not really having an idea what the average adult can afford for a vacation). I just know that personally if ticket prices went up that much I don't think I'd be able to afford to go and obvously I'd be pretty bummed out. I know that all the people I'm planning on going with wouldn't be able to afford it either. I know Moe said that a price increase like that is unlikely, but I just wanted to voice my concern that doing so would probably make it so a lot of students and younger people wouldn't be able to attend. I can't speak for all the families or adults, but I think a lot of students wouldn't be able to afford to go if the ticket prices went up that much. Obviously something needs to be done to alleviate some of the crowding, but I don't think doubling or tripling the price of tickets would be the right way to go about it.

  • whypick1whypick1 [E] ~2' from an LCDRegistered User regular
    My replies to your responses are in italics.
    Moe Fwacky wrote:
    Get a lot more space: There is no more space to be got, aside from a handful of hotel ballrooms, I don't know where you think more space is coming from, but PAX has just about maxed out the space available to them. There are only two main floors with huge exhibition halls, but there is a fair amount more space available than was used by PAX when counting the meeting rooms on floors other than 4 & 6. I'm not sure if that space was unavailable because of other people having reserved it first or if it was just deemed not open enough for PAX to bother with or what, but there's definitely more space there; granted, definitely not as good as the open exhibition halls. Also, perhaps selling less badges at a higher cost would be something to consider? How about separating the free play PC area into a different building, or just splitting everything in half? The CenturyLink Events Center has quite a bit of exhibition hall-style open space available, and it's a 1.5 mile walk to there from the Washington State Convention & Trade Center. (WSCTC) The CenturyLink Events Center's west hall is 165,370 square feet of space, the east hall is 90,185 and the concourse is 36,860. This may even provide more total space than the WSCTC. The WSCTC has about 275,000 square feet between levels 4 and 6 including lobbies, and excluding the smaller meeting rooms on the 6th floor. Splitting between the two could work out beautifully, unless you feel a 1.5 mile walk is a deal-breaker. (Us nerds could use the exercise, anyways.)

    1. PAX took up the entire WSCC and the Annex. Floors 2 and 3 were taken up almost entirely by tabletop and the rest to Jamspace and handheld. The only usable space on Floor 1 was again taken by tabletop. For all intents and purposes, floor 5 doesn't exist. And there still needs to be some non-public space for storage (those consoles and PCs up on the 6th floor don't just magically appear/disappear when the show's over). On the plus side, we should have all of the Annex back since there won't be a HaloFest next year.
    2. Did you see the amount of bitching last year about how Benaroya was so far away? And that was only a half mile. Separating large chunks of PAX just makes each part feel more isolated than if it's all under one building (ok, PAX is already techinically split up between 4, but at most you only have to walk two blocks from the WSCC front doors). Even shuttle services wouldn't help because...
    3. ...traffic traffic traffic. The Mariners, Seahawks, Sounders and Huskies could all potentially be using CLink/Safeco that weekend (probably just Mariners and 1 of the other 3 though, due to field conversion). Auto traffic in that area will be an absolute nightmare. Asking people to hoof it a mile and a half and fight those crowds seems like a surefire to get people to never want to come back.

    I'd be amazed if any part of PAX moved down there in the near future, if ever.

    Is it PAX <insert nearest future PAX here> yet?
  • LigerLiger Registered User regular
    If PAX was split between the Clink and the WSCC, I'd probably never go to the Clink. Why hoof it when I can still fill up all of my PAX time downtown?

    5932306549_6b4d957b56.jpg CUSTOM LANYARDS FOR PAX
  • dyaballikldyaballikl PAX Main Theatre House & Security Manager • PAX Community Cartographer Gold Coast QLD AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Liger wrote:
    If PAX was split between the Clink and the WSCC, I'd probably never go to the Clink. Why hoof it when I can still fill up all of my PAX time downtown?
    That was my story for 2010. I never made it to the Benaroya, regardless of how nice it may have been or how much was going on there.

    a.k.a. dya
    "Riding a mongoose reminds me of having sex with a man, which is something I do frequently because I am gay!" -Gabe
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    dyaballikl wrote:
    Liger wrote:
    If PAX was split between the Clink and the WSCC, I'd probably never go to the Clink. Why hoof it when I can still fill up all of my PAX time downtown?
    That was my story for 2010. I never made it to the Benaroya, regardless of how nice it may have been or how much was going on there.

    I made it one night for the concerts, but only because I was done at the WSCC for the night. It was too far.
    I don't know what the average income for a PAX goer is (although I'd be willing to be there's a decent range) but you probably have a better idea of whether people would still buy them out or not. (Me being 18 and not really having an idea what the average adult can afford for a vacation). I just know that personally if ticket prices went up that much I don't think I'd be able to afford to go and obvously I'd be pretty bummed out. I know that all the people I'm planning on going with wouldn't be able to afford it either. I know Moe said that a price increase like that is unlikely, but I just wanted to voice my concern that doing so would probably make it so a lot of students and younger people wouldn't be able to attend. I can't speak for all the families or adults, but I think a lot of students wouldn't be able to afford to go if the ticket prices went up that much. Obviously something needs to be done to alleviate some of the crowding, but I don't think doubling or tripling the price of tickets would be the right way to go about it.

    There's a decent range, but if the tickets went up it'd still sell out. The number of people willing to buy 3 one-day passes once three-day passes sell out (so $115 for a "three" day pass) suggests that you could raise the price considerably and still move the tickets. Easily. I imagine you could straight-up double the prices and still sell out, though it would take quite a bit longer.

  • BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    RolandDeschain: praytell, what space on 6th floor was unused? Pretty sure every single room there was being used for something (either freeplay, theaters, or expo)

    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
  • jonxpjonxp [E] Alumnus Registered User regular
    BigRed wrote:
    RolandDeschain: praytell, what space on 6th floor was unused? Pretty sure every single room there was being used for something (either freeplay, theaters, or expo)

    I think he said there was unused space in places other than the 4th and 6th floor.

    Every time you write parallel fifths, Bach kills a kitten.
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  • BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 2011
    jonxp wrote:
    BigRed wrote:
    RolandDeschain: praytell, what space on 6th floor was unused? Pretty sure every single room there was being used for something (either freeplay, theaters, or expo)

    I think he said there was unused space in places other than the 4th and 6th floor.

    Yeah... that other space is only tabletop :P

    BigRed on
    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
  • jonxpjonxp [E] Alumnus Registered User regular
    BigRed wrote:
    jonxp wrote:
    BigRed wrote:
    RolandDeschain: praytell, what space on 6th floor was unused? Pretty sure every single room there was being used for something (either freeplay, theaters, or expo)

    I think he said there was unused space in places other than the 4th and 6th floor.

    Yeah... that other space is only tabletop :P

    Seriously. I thought PAX was about *games*, not playing cards and dice. Total waste of space.

    Every time you write parallel fifths, Bach kills a kitten.
    3DS Friend Code: 2707-1614-5576
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  • tsrblketsrblke Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    jonxp wrote:
    BigRed wrote:
    jonxp wrote:
    BigRed wrote:
    RolandDeschain: praytell, what space on 6th floor was unused? Pretty sure every single room there was being used for something (either freeplay, theaters, or expo)

    I think he said there was unused space in places other than the 4th and 6th floor.

    Yeah... that other space is only tabletop :P

    Seriously. I thought PAX was about *games*, not playing cards and dice. Total waste of space.

    Last I checked those are games. Unless your being sarcastic, in which case I beg you to use sarcasm tags.

    Now then on to this
    A lot of people fly in from around the country and end up spending a bare minimum of 10 times (and more like 20-40 times) the cost of their ticket on airfare, lodging and food for the event: PAX prides itself for not being E3 or any other exclusive convention where you have to give your firstborn child just to get into the center. Yes people spend a lot of money to travel to PAX, it doesn't mean they should be required to also spend a lot of money just to get into the convention center. I don't see the benefit of having such low prices. Is it a marketing thing to try and publicly appeal "to the little man", or what? Everyone I know that went to PAX, when I asked them after it was over if they'd pay double the ticket price to have considerably shorter lines to stand in for playing games, all said they would gladly do it; and most of them don't make good money. I think you guys might be a little off-base in terms of what the majority of your attendees really want in regards to this, though I could definitely be wrong. (Let me repeat that: I may be wrong, I just don't think I am, lol.) Hmmm...spend $120 for a 3-day pass instead of $60, and get to play twice as many games and spend significantly less time in line? Yes, please.

    Well yeah when you present it like that everyone will agree, I'd paid double for "considerably shorter lines" but that presupposes you'd get "Considerably shorter lines." We know that people were willing to pay $100 or more for passes now, on the black market. Doubling the cost and they'd still sell out (most likely). Now I see your point is "Let's just sell half the passes then." Two major problems with that line of thought: 1) Why take away half the people in the first place? PAX should grow not shrink. 2)Exhibitors might be less willing to cart their crap there to get half the eyeball sets they get now. And you still haven't definitely shortened the lines. Let's face it, there were maybe 10 play booths at each station, playing 25 minute demos or so. So 20 people/hour (We'll be generous and more than double that to 50 people per hour. Which covers either 20 or so playing stations or a 12 minute demo) So in a total 8 hour expo hall day, you can get 400 people max (using my 50 people/hour metric) through the demo. Even if you cut PAX in half, that's still about than 15k people per day. If only 2.6% of those people line up each day, the lines will be just as long. (Even if you get it to 10k people per day it'd only take 4% it make the lines full.) The wait did cause some people (such as myself) not to even bother with the lines, if you shorten it, those people may jump back into the lines (figuratively speaking).

    tsrblke on
  • zerzhulzerzhul Old General Registered User, Moderator mod
  • RolandDeschainRolandDeschain Registered User
    If you can barely afford it after a year of saving, frankly, I only have one thing to say: stop working only 20 hours/week at Burger King.

    If you're trying to let the poorest people in the nation still attend PAX, Christ, you might as well subsidize flights from Ethiopia, too. It just doesn't make sense to me to essentially make some parts of PAX miserable for a lot of attendees simply to allow greater numbers of people to attend, so you can say "Yeah, those dudes that make $4,000/year can attend, too." *rolls eyes*

    I guess if the guys in charge of PAX want to follow the Blizzard "appeal to the most common denominator" methodology, there's nothing that's going to cause a philosophical change to make the experience better for the people that do attend. You guys might as well sell another 10-20k badges since the quality of the experience is a lower priority than number of badges sold.

    You claim to be proud of allowing a ridiculous number of people into PAX via low badge prices; but what about the people that want to be able to actually experience everything at PAX, not just most things excluding the most popular?

  • tsrblketsrblke Registered User regular
    zerzhul wrote:
    yes he was being sarcastic

    Sorry, bad week. My sarcasm meter is totally broken. (And that's not sarcasm). I rescind my comments there-abouts. And apologize for my gut reaction (seriously, really bad freaken week).

    Now then to @rolanddeschain, there is of course the philosophical change going on that PAX needs to work really freaken hard to stop the counterfiters, that alone will probably reduce attedence size from this year more than merely doubling the passes.
    There is of course a contradiction in your logic. If doubling the prices is "merely a drop in teh bucket" then it won't affect those who are buying the passes anyway, ergo, it won't lower attendence.
    Again, I can only assume your doubling price to reduce attendence by some number close to half just based on the number of passes sold. To wit, I have already pointed out the biggest problem with that, namely that if you reduce the attendence by that much, the big name companies (not located in seattle) may just either a) Not show up or b) bring less stuff anyway (putting us right back where we were in the first place.) Companies write this shit off as advertising, and inorder to justify it as Advertising, they need to hit X number of Eyeballs per dollar. A 50% size PAX doesn't draw nearly as much for the companies (I think e3 proved this when they got more restrictive and suddenly the big names stopped unveiling the coolest shit there. It got so bad, in 2k9, E3 reverted back to their old format.)

  • BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    but what about the people that want to be able to actually experience everything at PAX, not just most things excluding the most popular?

    That hasn't been possible since 2006... even then it was a stretch.

    This is the way PAX is going to be... and no amount of rage by someone online about it will change it :P... PAX cant grow much just cause of space limitations. Its certainly not going to shrink. If you are trying to do /everything/ at PAX and you are getting upset that you cant then you are getting upset for no reason. You cant do/see everything at PAX... its too big so its not possible.

    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
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