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Bioware romances - what have I missed?

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Posts

  • -Tal-Tal $399 No DRMRegistered User regular
    -Tal wrote:
    Yeah, one other criticism I have of Bioware romances is that they are too dramatic and focused on "fixing" people. This is where the Sonic/Amy romance actually stands out. Just two well-adjusted characters that care for each other.

    Please be ironic, please be ironic

    Sonic Chronicles is a decent game and while I wouldn't really call the Amy romance "well-written", the tone it takes is refreshing when most Bioware romances are super-serious and feel the need to shoehorn in issues.

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  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    It's interesting that Anders in DA2 apparently hits on the male MC aggressively, eventually cornering you into a tree where the only options are "dude no" and "eh why not".

    I don't see what's necessarily false about the X map location; in most games you get to a part of the narrative arc where people are vulnerable, or you reach a point of no return where characters might open up. Tie it in to your actions up to that point (and have characters with strong personalities and convictions like Sten, otherwise it doesn't work) and it can feel genuine.

  • RandomshotRandomshot Registered User
    daveNYC wrote:
    Vi Monks wrote:
    -Tal wrote:
    Putting the pace in control of the player is the problem, because it ends up feeling very one-sided.

    Yeah, any character depth that might have come out of a romance is made impossible when you can jump right to the finish line like that. Felt extremely video gamey.

    Although they did make "Nice shoes, lets fuck." a workable strategy. So that counts. For something.

    The romance system in DAO was indeed horrible. I started to feel like I was running some kind of harem by force and bribery, then when I went to talk to Morrigan one time after NOT trying to romance her she told me she'd never had a relationship with a guy who didn't want to bang her before. Her mind was blown.

    So was I.

  • -Tal-Tal $399 No DRMRegistered User regular
    Anders doesn't really hit on you so much as automatically assume you are interested, and the cornering you're talking about is after he goes on some emo rant about how he doesn't want to burden you with his problems. The "dude no" option is more like "yeah sure whatever" and he takes a little offense for some reason? Fuck Anders, man.

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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote:
    Yeah, one other criticism I have of Bioware romances is that they are too dramatic and focused on "fixing" people. This is where the Sonic/Amy romance actually stands out. Just two well-adjusted characters that care for each other.

    Please be ironic, please be ironic
    It's not just the romances, really. You "fix" pretty much all of your other companions in bioware games too. Heck, the ones you don't romance usually end up getting less character development because of that. Really, this obsession in poorly handled romances is half the reason I'm getting so disillusioned with bioware

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  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    Shen wrote:
    It's interesting that Anders in DA2 apparently hits on the male MC aggressively, eventually cornering you into a tree where the only options are "dude no" and "eh why not".

    I don't see what's necessarily false about the X map location; in most games you get to a part of the narrative arc where people are vulnerable, or you reach a point of no return where characters might open up. Tie it in to your actions up to that point (and have characters with strong personalities and convictions like Sten, otherwise it doesn't work) and it can feel genuine.

    This ties in better with games set up like DA2, and Jade Empire, but can't work if they're structured like ME1, ME2, DAO or KoTOR. By giving you the standard '4 hubs in any order-> endgame' you are dramatically limited in what you can write based on what the player has experienced because its going to be different for everybody. Its honesty why I prefer more linear games, because going through a hub that needs to make sense if you play it first or last is aggravating and cuts out so many potential options and character stuff for the sake of the illusion of choice.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote:
    -Tal wrote:
    Putting the pace in control of the player is the problem, because it ends up feeling very one-sided.

    This makes me curious as to what the solution would be. Either the romance can't progress until X map location is reached and "completed" which feels false, or the pace is in the hands of the player, meaning you can 'win' the romance instantly which also feels false. Is there a third option?

    Have romance_target_x be really interested in orphans (for whatever reason), and then have one of the areas that you go to be an orphanarium. Then the relationship with that character can change based on the player's actions there. Similar to the ME2 loyalty missions, but not quite as obvious. In DA:O, the various party members' opinion of you changed based on what you did in the various 'getting the band back together' missions, but the gift giving really outweighed it.

  • RandomshotRandomshot Registered User
    I wish they would bring back stuff like the hardening system in DAO and keep all that crap out of the romances. I don't need to hear crying in bed.

    The best scene in DAO was when hardened Alistair confronts you if you try to spare Loghain's life.
    Spoiler:

  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    -Tal wrote:
    -Tal wrote:
    Yeah, one other criticism I have of Bioware romances is that they are too dramatic and focused on "fixing" people. This is where the Sonic/Amy romance actually stands out. Just two well-adjusted characters that care for each other.

    Please be ironic, please be ironic

    Sonic Chronicles is a decent game and while I wouldn't really call the Amy romance "well-written", the tone it takes is refreshing when most Bioware romances are super-serious and feel the need to shoehorn in issues.

    The one thing I don't like about the story portions of Bioware's recent games are the romance options. I've suffered through them for my achievements like a good whore, but the extent to which they're there now just really makes it feel like I'm playing through somebody's horrid shipping fanfic.

    Also, there were "romance" options in a Sonic game? Seriously? ._.

    tastydonuts on
    "a good leader can make an okay group great..."
  • CygnusZCygnusZ Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote:
    Cambiata wrote:
    -Tal wrote:
    Putting the pace in control of the player is the problem, because it ends up feeling very one-sided.

    This makes me curious as to what the solution would be. Either the romance can't progress until X map location is reached and "completed" which feels false, or the pace is in the hands of the player, meaning you can 'win' the romance instantly which also feels false. Is there a third option?

    Have romance_target_x be really interested in orphans (for whatever reason), and then have one of the areas that you go to be an orphanarium. Then the relationship with that character can change based on the player's actions there. Similar to the ME2 loyalty missions, but not quite as obvious. In DA:O, the various party members' opinion of you changed based on what you did in the various 'getting the band back together' missions, but the gift giving really outweighed it.

    Sakura Taisen handles this by having the ending sequence be different depending on which female character has the highest affinity for the protagonist. For example, what if your romantic options don't make a difference until the end (let's say with 3-4 hours left in the game), at which point all your companions desert your EXCEPT for the one you have the highest relationship with?

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Registered User regular
    Randomshot wrote:
    daveNYC wrote:
    Vi Monks wrote:
    -Tal wrote:
    Putting the pace in control of the player is the problem, because it ends up feeling very one-sided.

    Yeah, any character depth that might have come out of a romance is made impossible when you can jump right to the finish line like that. Felt extremely video gamey.

    Although they did make "Nice shoes, lets fuck." a workable strategy. So that counts. For something.

    The romance system in DAO was indeed horrible. I started to feel like I was running some kind of harem by force and bribery, then when I went to talk to Morrigan one time after NOT trying to romance her she told me she'd never had a relationship with a guy who didn't want to bang her before. Her mind was blown.

    So was I.

    My character ended up with Morrigan, but solely due to the power of Claudia Black's accent. Bioware, next time give the sexy voice to the non-sociopath?

    It's funny that Bioware would probably put a romantic interest in a Tetris game, but the new FO games are almost completely romance free.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    I too generally find the Bioware romances... well, what's a gentler word than "excruciating?"

    I would highly recommend KOTOR 2 and the Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer expansion. I recall both games having compelling romance subplots that I could actually stand. You'll notice that neither of those are actually Bioware games, but uhh... yeah.

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  • -Tal-Tal $399 No DRMRegistered User regular
    Also, there were "romance" options in a Sonic game? Seriously? ._.

    Now calm down, the game is rated E. Not even E10+. The romance is very innocent and nowhere near the "hey let's fuck" of Bioware's other games.

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  • KeysierKeysier Registered User regular
    Well one of the problem in Bioware games is that your main character is the person that fixes everything.

    Conceivably if I had someone around that always fixed all the problems and that person wanted to bang me? Why wouldn't I tell them my problems - obviously we'd work them out because they fix everything!

    There really isn't that "dude I am just trying to live my life" kind of thing going on. Especially since you most likely are doing the side quests like a cocaine addict asking everyone if they have a problem so you can fix it.

    The Witcher is a lot better writing in this area. The Witcher 1 was ridiculously sex filled. Witcher 2 is a lot more relaxed. I liked the writing of the Witcher 2 immensely

  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote:
    Also, there were "romance" options in a Sonic game? Seriously? ._.

    Now calm down, the game is rated E. Not even E10+. The romance is very innocent and nowhere near the "hey let's fuck" of Bioware's other games.

    Yar I know the game is rated E, hence my use of quotes when using romance. It doesn't change the why is this even necessary feeling I have about it.

    "a good leader can make an okay group great..."
  • reVersereVerse Registered User regular
    Is there a gay romance in the Sonic game?

  • SkexisSkexis Tongue Firmly in CheekRegistered User regular
    Keysier wrote:
    Well one of the problem in Bioware games is that your main character is the person that fixes everything.

    Conceivably if I had someone around that always fixed all the problems and that person wanted to bang me? Why wouldn't I tell them my problems - obviously we'd work them out because they fix everything!

    There really isn't that "dude I am just trying to live my life" kind of thing going on. Especially since you most likely are doing the side quests like a cocaine addict asking everyone if they have a problem so you can fix it.

    The Witcher is a lot better writing in this area. The Witcher 1 was ridiculously sex filled. Witcher 2 is a lot more relaxed. I liked the writing of the Witcher 2 immensely

    That's actually why I liked the Rogue/comedy conversation options for DA2, and why I like Merrill as a romance as well. It's much more natural sounding to have someone who solves problems because he has friends in trouble or because he needs money or because his aging mom needs to be taken care of. There's a point when the default Garrett talks to Anders and basically says "I just keep getting sucked into these things, don't I?"

    That being said, DA2 is also the first Bioware game where I didn't feel like I had to 100% paragon/olive branch, so I feel like they did something right, flaws aside.

  • EnderEnder Registered User regular
    I thought the Kelly Chambers "romance" (even less of a romance than the others) in ME2 was handled pretty well.

    The flirting was reminiscent of an actual relationship. Well, okay, almost. Maybe.

    Then again, you did offer to molest her if you took her up on the offer of a trust fall. And she was okay with it.

    Hmm.

    eahenryii wrote: »

    i've resorted to reading your posts in William Shatner's voice.

    I am now using the Christopher Walken voice.
  • reVersereVerse Registered User regular
    Skexis wrote:
    That being said, DA2 is also the first Bioware game where I didn't feel like I had to 100% paragon/olive branch, so I feel like they did something right, flaws aside.

    That was definitely the best part of DA2. I got to actually roleplay in a roleplaying game, rather than trying to min/max the benefits of the arbitrary good/evil meter.

  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote:
    Skexis wrote:
    That being said, DA2 is also the first Bioware game where I didn't feel like I had to 100% paragon/olive branch, so I feel like they did something right, flaws aside.

    That was definitely the best part of DA2. I got to actually roleplay in a roleplaying game, rather than trying to min/max the benefits of the arbitrary good/evil meter.

    Unfortunately it was replaced with a slightly less arbitrary Friendship/Rivalry meter and if you don't min/max those you end up losing party members.

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