Maybe in another ten years we'll be able to look back without the jingoism. I liked the "Remember when the wall came down?" discussions because nobody was bitching about how much of an asshole Reagan and Bush were.
Exercising a little critical thought about a major event and the context it happened in as well as its consequences is a good thing.
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ArtreusI'm a wizardAnd that looks fucked upRegistered Userregular
but I can't see a discussion about bush going anywhere nice
I see where you're coming from but I think we'll be able to handle it decently enough in this thread, I don't think anybody on the forum is so far right that they'll defend that administration to the point of causing a shitstorm, at least not right now
I think either extreme is bad
but I have a fairly moderate political opinion (which means I'm a rabid leftist revolutionary, or something)
Actually, it's crazy to think about the factors leading up to the war
much of it riding on the mentality that America should assert its status as a superpower (Cheney's made no effort to hide this opinion, as well as many of the people he associates with)
it's frustrating to see all this money going to field our troops around the world, as well as promote advancement in war technology, when it could be used for nicer things
like education, healthcare, etc.
Bush and Cheney were Neocons. Basically
"America is the greatest, we need to make sure everybody knows it, and we need to shape the world to fit our needs"
So they set about doing just that. Or attempting to.
i recall being in 8th grade, like 13 years old i guess.. And the school i went to apparently had no regard for current events, and was actually scared for our fragile 13 year old minds that they would not let us watch the news or anything that day..
I spent that day in the dark for the most part until i got home and saw the news.. Like, i'm fairly pissed, which seems selfish, that i was deprived of seeing that event happen simply because it was determined that I was incapable of handling something of that magnitude.
man the bush administration aged him like twenty years
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TrippyJingMoses supposes his toeses are roses.But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered Userregular
I was in high school, just hanging in the school library and waiting for class to begin when we heard the first impact. Couple of us went to the windows, and first place I looked was down at the street. I thought that maybe a truck had crashed or something of that sort. Someone had to tell me to look up before I realized there was a smoking hole in the side of one of the towers. I was a bit worried at this point. At the time, my mother worked in one of the towers. Speculation abound, we came to the conclusion that it was an accident.
Then the second plane hit. All the students were told to go to their first classes and wait there. In my class, we turned on the TV and just as we did so, we see that the Pentagon had been hit. We stay there for a little while, where we're informed by the news that all bridges and tunnels off the island were being shut down. Groans everywhere, as a good portion of the room lived outside Manhattan. Then we were all moved to our respective homerooms where we waited some more.
Then the towers came down. I look outside, and see a massive dust cloud rolling across the blocks between Ground Zero and our school. I could see down in the street people fleeing from it. This was what I assume prompted the evacuation. We all got the out in a hurry and started walking up the west side until we get to Chelsea Piers...along the way, I continually fretted about what happened to my mother. We split off into groups once we heard that some subway lines were still running. Some groups found places to stay on the island, and others tried to get home. The group I was in walked to the closest station that went to Brooklyn, and we got on.
About an hour and a half later, I enter my home to see my mom watching the news coverage of the incident.
She'd had the day off.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I was in the 8th grade, and I remember someone came and knocked on the classroom door. the teacher went out into the hall and they talked about something, and then she came back in and told us that a plane had hit the world trade center.
the thing I most specifically remember is how we just went about our lesson as if nothing had happened for...however long it was until the second plane hit. like, we were all kind of looking around, wondering why it was a big deal (this is in Memphis, so most of us probably didn't know what the WTC was, or it's importance. I know I didn't.)
then there was another knock at the door, and this time when the teacher came back in she told us another plane had hit, and she turned on the little corner TV and we watched CNN for the rest of the day, terrified.
9/11 was a monumental moment in our history. It could have been another pearl harbor. The nation could have banded together and faced a common enemy through unity. It was an opportunity to show the world that the us is still a great place to be and that our differences are what bind us together.
Instead we have only become more fractured and partisan in the intervening 10 years. Our government has become weak and ineffectual due to constant infighting. Our police forces have been given undo authority to monitor, detain, and confiscate who and whatever they please. All in the name of national security. It was used as an excuse to start two wars that didn't really need to be fought in the fashion that they have been. It created a massive drain on our economy and national will.
9/11 changed America. And not at all for the better.
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
I was doing an assignment and had IRC I think open and heard about it through there.
At like ten or eleven PM a friend called me to tell me, I was all, why are you telling me this? and his response was, "I'm telling everybody!" I then told him I still had this assignment to do.
9/11 was a monumental moment in our history. It could have been another pearl harbor. The nation could have banded together and faced a common enemy through unity. It was an opportunity to show the world that the us is still a great place to be and that our differences are what bind us together.
Instead we have only become more fractured and partisan in the intervening 10 years. Our government has become weak and ineffectual due to constant infighting. Our police forces have been given undo authority to monitor, detain, and confiscate who and whatever they please. All in the name of national security. It was used as an excuse to start two wars that didn't really need to be fought in the fashion that they have been. It created a massive drain on our economy and national will.
9/11 changed America. And not at all for the better.
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
I joined the army like 2 weeks before 9/11, whoops.
Wow man, I didn't know that. How did things go in basic on the news of what had happened?
I signed all the papers and stuff before 9/11, but I didn't actually ship out until later in sept.
My group got a lot of "now I know you all just joined because of 9/11..." even though everyone there signed up before :?
no one like that assumption very much
I was in the middle of packing my entire life into a U Haul to move from Michigan to DC to start work for the Navy, had just dropped my ex off at the Navy recruiting station downtown and was driving back to the apartment when they interrupted the radio broadcast for the first plane impact.
By the time I got home and turned on the TV the second plane had hit and they were evacuating any building that was tall or had to do with government/military services in and around Detroit, so back to the recruiting station to retrieve the ex and then back again to the apartment to spend the rest of the day glued to the TV, in tears, trying to call my uncles (both worked in Manhattan) and hoping beyond hope that my brother's unit wouldn't be leaving the country (foolish hope). There was a lot of national vitriol against Muslims and Arab communities in general, but I have to say there was nothing but support for our country from the local, very large, very vocal Muslim population.
Brother and several friends almost immediately deployed, uncles were both fine despite being ridiculously close, and I spent the first six months of my new job driving past the hole in the Pentagon to get to work every day.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I was in high school, just hanging in the school library and waiting for class to begin when we heard the first impact. Couple of us went to the windows, and first place I looked was down at the street. I thought that maybe a truck had crashed or something of that sort. Someone had to tell me to look up before I realized there was a smoking hole in the side of one of the towers. I was a bit worried at this point. At the time, my mother worked in one of the towers. Speculation abound, we came to the conclusion that it was an accident.
Then the second plane hit. All the students were told to go to their first classes and wait there. In my class, we turned on the TV and just as we did so, we see that the Pentagon had been hit. We stay there for a little while, where we're informed by the news that all bridges and tunnels off the island were being shut down. Groans everywhere, as a good portion of the room lived outside Manhattan. Then we were all moved to our respective homerooms where we waited some more.
Then the towers came down. I look outside, and see a massive dust cloud rolling across the blocks between Ground Zero and our school. I could see down in the street people fleeing from it. This was what I assume prompted the evacuation. We all got the out in a hurry and started walking up the west side until we get to Chelsea Piers...along the way, I continually fretted about what happened to my mother. We split off into groups once we heard that some subway lines were still running. Some groups found places to stay on the island, and others tried to get home. The group I was in walked to the closest station that went to Brooklyn, and we got on.
About an hour and a half later, I enter my home to see my mom watching the news coverage of the incident.
She'd had the day off.
I don't recall, in all these years, reading any stories from forumers who were more or less there when it happened. I'm glad you and your mother came away from it okay.
I remember it was my junior year and around first or second period, I don't recall exactly. I was in English III and I remember the teacher turned on the TV and we watched the first tower burn, then we saw the second tower get hit. I wasn't nearly as indifferent about the world and everything because the rest of the day was just sort of stunned disbelief that something like that could happen. The rest of the school was the same way, it was pretty quiet all day and while we weren't let out early or anything, we didn't do anything either.
I'm still not as indifferent and apathetic as I sometimes think I am. Watching those videos Geebs posted really brought back the terrible, sinking feeling I had when I first saw it happen. Goddamn that was an awful day, to still affect us so.
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
Zombies I do not think you understand America's unwillingness to be at war in world war 2 when you say it could have been another pearl harbour because with the majority of of the points you have made there were equivalents that occurred in the 1940's.
American citizen have become complacent and all to comfortable.
I wish every day for an Arab spring type movement here in the states but I know that will never happen. We are a nation of revolutionaries, but we no longer have the will to revolt, or even have meaningful protests.
I was in high school, just hanging in the school library and waiting for class to begin when we heard the first impact. Couple of us went to the windows, and first place I looked was down at the street. I thought that maybe a truck had crashed or something of that sort. Someone had to tell me to look up before I realized there was a smoking hole in the side of one of the towers. I was a bit worried at this point. At the time, my mother worked in one of the towers. Speculation abound, we came to the conclusion that it was an accident.
Then the second plane hit. All the students were told to go to their first classes and wait there. In my class, we turned on the TV and just as we did so, we see that the Pentagon had been hit. We stay there for a little while, where we're informed by the news that all bridges and tunnels off the island were being shut down. Groans everywhere, as a good portion of the room lived outside Manhattan. Then we were all moved to our respective homerooms where we waited some more.
Then the towers came down. I look outside, and see a massive dust cloud rolling across the blocks between Ground Zero and our school. I could see down in the street people fleeing from it. This was what I assume prompted the evacuation. We all got the out in a hurry and started walking up the west side until we get to Chelsea Piers...along the way, I continually fretted about what happened to my mother. We split off into groups once we heard that some subway lines were still running. Some groups found places to stay on the island, and others tried to get home. The group I was in walked to the closest station that went to Brooklyn, and we got on.
About an hour and a half later, I enter my home to see my mom watching the news coverage of the incident.
She'd had the day off.
Damn
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I joined the army like 2 weeks before 9/11, whoops.
Wow man, I didn't know that. How did things go in basic on the news of what had happened?
I signed all the papers and stuff before 9/11, but I didn't actually ship out until later in sept.
My group got a lot of "now I know you all just joined because of 9/11..." even though everyone there signed up before :?
no one like that assumption very much
Was it that it put a sort of "bandwagon" feel to you and the others enlisting? (This is a serious question)
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
It's unfortunate and unpleasant but it must be noted
the US has responded to the tragedy of 9/11 by spending ten years becoming a significantly worse place to live
I'm a bit angry at how the 9/11 thing is being handled. I think people were setting off fireworks earlier and we had a "Freedom Festival" this weekend.
My best friend at the time was a Muslim guy with the last name "Hussain." And nobody gave him any shit at all. And I was incredibly proud to live where I did.
literally have no recollection of the event, didn't even know it was a thing that happened until '03 when I changed schools and the bitchy lady that no one liked carted in a TV and rudely explained it to us while we watched memorial coverage.
in the third grade! I still have no idea why she was so damn pissy.
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
I'm a bit angry at how the 9/11 thing is being handled. I think people were setting off fireworks earlier and we had a "Freedom Festival" this weekend.
What's wrong with a bit of quiet reflection?
you must be confusing the US with one of those other countries
I'm a bit angry at how the 9/11 thing is being handled. I think people were setting off fireworks earlier and we had a "Freedom Festival" this weekend.
What's wrong with a bit of quiet reflection?
There is no need to turn this into something to celebrate. It's wrong, just like it's wrong to sit back and watch the money flow in from selling Never Forget! T-shirts. It should be a somber affair. I also heard fireworks going off, it's disgusting.
American citizen have become complacent and all to comfortable.
I wish every day for an Arab spring type movement here in the states but I know that will never happen. We are a nation of revolutionaries, but we no longer have the will to revolt, or even have meaningful protests.
Recently, there was a college protest over the latest increase of school tuition costs
a bunch of students blocked off the entrance to the campus and people couldn't get in to class
I still haven't found the words to explain why that bothers me, but I get pissed off whenever I think about it
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My dad's friend was pissed off tonight because the people at his daughter's school didn't teach her about 9/11, yet they taught her that "the evil white man killed Martin Luther King Jr."
Zombies I do not think you understand America's unwillingness to be at war in world war 2 when you say it could have been another pearl harbour because with the majority of of the points you have made there were equivalents that occurred in the 1940's.
I meant it more along the lines of the galvanizing effect that the attack had on the nation. Everyone chipped in and did their part. Everyone sacrificed so we could be the best damn nation we could possibly be.
Now, Americans are unwilling to sacrifice even the barest amounts. The days immediately after the attack had that feeling of helping and charity. But it quickly faded.
American citizen have become complacent and all to comfortable.
I wish every day for an Arab spring type movement here in the states but I know that will never happen. We are a nation of revolutionaries, but we no longer have the will to revolt, or even have meaningful protests.
Recently, there was a college protest over the latest increase of school tuition costs
a bunch of students blocked off the entrance to the campus and people couldn't get in to class
I still haven't found the words to explain why that bothers me, but I get pissed off whenever I think about it
Are you pissed over the protests or tuition increases?
Zombies I do not think you understand America's unwillingness to be at war in world war 2 when you say it could have been another pearl harbour because with the majority of of the points you have made there were equivalents that occurred in the 1940's.
I meant it more along the lines of the galvanizing effect that the attack had on the nation. Everyone chipped in and did their part. Everyone sacrificed so we could be the best damn nation we could possibly be.
Now, Americans are unwilling to sacrifice even the barest amounts. The days immediately after the attack had that feeling of helping and charity. But it quickly faded.
The military isn't asking rations from us.
Americans suck these days yes, but WW2 and Pearl Harbor were totally different.
i got sent to the dean's office at my high school that day for reasons that i don't remember. everyone there was being super weird and not paying attention to what i needed at all. they made an announcement about 15 minutes later and then we watched the news on the channel one tvs for the rest of my algebra class.
Posts
Exercising a little critical thought about a major event and the context it happened in as well as its consequences is a good thing.
Bush and Cheney were Neocons. Basically
"America is the greatest, we need to make sure everybody knows it, and we need to shape the world to fit our needs"
So they set about doing just that. Or attempting to.
I spent that day in the dark for the most part until i got home and saw the news.. Like, i'm fairly pissed, which seems selfish, that i was deprived of seeing that event happen simply because it was determined that I was incapable of handling something of that magnitude.
STEAM!
man the bush administration aged him like twenty years
Then the second plane hit. All the students were told to go to their first classes and wait there. In my class, we turned on the TV and just as we did so, we see that the Pentagon had been hit. We stay there for a little while, where we're informed by the news that all bridges and tunnels off the island were being shut down. Groans everywhere, as a good portion of the room lived outside Manhattan. Then we were all moved to our respective homerooms where we waited some more.
Then the towers came down. I look outside, and see a massive dust cloud rolling across the blocks between Ground Zero and our school. I could see down in the street people fleeing from it. This was what I assume prompted the evacuation. We all got the out in a hurry and started walking up the west side until we get to Chelsea Piers...along the way, I continually fretted about what happened to my mother. We split off into groups once we heard that some subway lines were still running. Some groups found places to stay on the island, and others tried to get home. The group I was in walked to the closest station that went to Brooklyn, and we got on.
About an hour and a half later, I enter my home to see my mom watching the news coverage of the incident.
She'd had the day off.
Wow man, I didn't know that. How did things go in basic on the news of what had happened?
I kinda appreciate this. 10 years is a significant timespan for a lot of things in our lives.
thinking to yourself "I really like where I live and it should be defended" is not what I'm talking about
I was thinking of other lines I could write
but I think IMPERIALISM sums it up well
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i
holy shit
the thing I most specifically remember is how we just went about our lesson as if nothing had happened for...however long it was until the second plane hit. like, we were all kind of looking around, wondering why it was a big deal (this is in Memphis, so most of us probably didn't know what the WTC was, or it's importance. I know I didn't.)
then there was another knock at the door, and this time when the teacher came back in she told us another plane had hit, and she turned on the little corner TV and we watched CNN for the rest of the day, terrified.
Follow me on Twitter??
but I'm really glad it had a happy ending for you at least
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9/11 was a monumental moment in our history. It could have been another pearl harbor. The nation could have banded together and faced a common enemy through unity. It was an opportunity to show the world that the us is still a great place to be and that our differences are what bind us together.
Instead we have only become more fractured and partisan in the intervening 10 years. Our government has become weak and ineffectual due to constant infighting. Our police forces have been given undo authority to monitor, detain, and confiscate who and whatever they please. All in the name of national security. It was used as an excuse to start two wars that didn't really need to be fought in the fashion that they have been. It created a massive drain on our economy and national will.
9/11 changed America. And not at all for the better.
At like ten or eleven PM a friend called me to tell me, I was all, why are you telling me this? and his response was, "I'm telling everybody!" I then told him I still had this assignment to do.
I didn't get to bed til like 3AM.
Still failed the assignment.
Satans..... hints.....
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
I signed all the papers and stuff before 9/11, but I didn't actually ship out until later in sept.
My group got a lot of "now I know you all just joined because of 9/11..." even though everyone there signed up before :?
no one like that assumption very much
By the time I got home and turned on the TV the second plane had hit and they were evacuating any building that was tall or had to do with government/military services in and around Detroit, so back to the recruiting station to retrieve the ex and then back again to the apartment to spend the rest of the day glued to the TV, in tears, trying to call my uncles (both worked in Manhattan) and hoping beyond hope that my brother's unit wouldn't be leaving the country (foolish hope). There was a lot of national vitriol against Muslims and Arab communities in general, but I have to say there was nothing but support for our country from the local, very large, very vocal Muslim population.
Brother and several friends almost immediately deployed, uncles were both fine despite being ridiculously close, and I spent the first six months of my new job driving past the hole in the Pentagon to get to work every day.
I don't recall, in all these years, reading any stories from forumers who were more or less there when it happened. I'm glad you and your mother came away from it okay.
I'm still not as indifferent and apathetic as I sometimes think I am. Watching those videos Geebs posted really brought back the terrible, sinking feeling I had when I first saw it happen. Goddamn that was an awful day, to still affect us so.
Satans..... hints.....
I wish every day for an Arab spring type movement here in the states but I know that will never happen. We are a nation of revolutionaries, but we no longer have the will to revolt, or even have meaningful protests.
Damn
Was it that it put a sort of "bandwagon" feel to you and the others enlisting? (This is a serious question)
the US has responded to the tragedy of 9/11 by spending ten years becoming a significantly worse place to live
What's wrong with a bit of quiet reflection?
in the third grade! I still have no idea why she was so damn pissy.
you must be confusing the US with one of those other countries
you know, countries with dignity
Recently, there was a college protest over the latest increase of school tuition costs
a bunch of students blocked off the entrance to the campus and people couldn't get in to class
I still haven't found the words to explain why that bothers me, but I get pissed off whenever I think about it
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She's in like, first grade. Maybe second.
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I meant it more along the lines of the galvanizing effect that the attack had on the nation. Everyone chipped in and did their part. Everyone sacrificed so we could be the best damn nation we could possibly be.
Now, Americans are unwilling to sacrifice even the barest amounts. The days immediately after the attack had that feeling of helping and charity. But it quickly faded.
I'm 32 sweetheart
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Are you pissed over the protests or tuition increases?
Americans suck these days yes, but WW2 and Pearl Harbor were totally different.