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[Chaos] Chaos in the Old World - Discussion and signups - the Horned Rat

DarianDarian Registered User regular
edited March 2012 in Critical Failures
pic490400.jpg

Chaos in the Old World is a boardgame set in the Warhammer Fantasy universe. Players take on the role of one of the gods of Chaos, seeking to corrupt the land and remake it in their own image. It plays best with exactly four players and offers is an interesting twist on area control games - each god has slightly different forces, their own thematic deck of Chaos cards to cast, and a victory track (dial) that marks progress befitting that god's priorities. The game can be won either by VP accumulation or by completing your dial.

Khorne - the Blood god - murder, maim, kill. Tends to win by dial victory, and earns advances by killing enemy figures. Straightforward to play, but must keep a close watch on everything that is happening to extend the game long enough to achieve victory (he needs nine dial ticks, so he has to double tick multiple times and prevent others from winning by VP before he gets there).
Spoiler:

Nurgle - the Lord of Pestilence - spreading filth and disease among the cities and towns. Longest dial track, making a dial victory difficult, if not impossible. But Nurgle can benefit from others' ruinations and can shoot up the VP track in the mid-to-late game. Never out of contention.
Spoiler:

Tzeentch - the Changer of Ways - making plans and reshaping reality to suit himself. Tzeentch is the most reliant of all the gods on his Chaos cards; his are cheaper and he gets to draw more of them than anyone else. Depending on the Old World deck, he can go for either a dial or VP victory, but he has to find Warpstones and cast magic spells in order to prepare regions for ideal corruption.
Spoiler:

Slaanesh - the Prince of Pleasure (and pain) - seducing the nobility and heroes of the land, swaying them to his side. With the shortest dial track, Slaanesh can win without ever double-ticking, and by focusing on regions with nobles can build up VP quickly.
Spoiler:

The Horned Rat - The Undying Schemer - rising from under the ground with his skittering horde. Rather than seeking to corrupt the Old World, the Horned Rat instead strains to overrun it, with more figures than any other god and abilities that enhance their mobility.
Spoiler:

Here's a quick summary of the gods' followers and their abilities:
Spoiler:

Previous games, aka recommended reading before playing, are linked from the CF Boardgame Index

As has been requested, this thread can be used as a general sign-up list for future CitOW games (starting with my game 17). I'll keep lists in the second post of sign-ups. When you do sign up, please mention whether you have played in any of the previous games (vet) or not (noob). I think I can remember the hosts for myself.

Let's also use this thread for general discussion on Chaos in the Old World - rules questions, balance, complaining about the greenskins and electors that keep Khorne from winning, etc.

A new expansion brings with it new rules questions. As an aid to players and hosts, I offer you the following.

Darian's personal Unofficial FAQ for the Horned Rat (Now with some official rulings):
Spoiler:

Darian on
«13456737

Posts

  • DarianDarian Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    For those new to our forums (this used to be stickied in all sub-forums and remains in effect; quote is copied from Debate and Discourse):
    The Glorious Edict
    All insults other than 'silly goose' are punishable by punishment most severe. Admins and mods are exempted, so we may be allowed to practice the modly art of self-restraint.

    There is a moderate exception for in-character text in role-playing threads, but that doesn't apply to our CitOW games or any discussion threads. Keep it civil, please.

    Sign up in this thread if you are interested in playing in a game with us.

    All players: (after getting into a game, you can sign up again at the bottom of the list; HR or B means the player only wants to play in expansion or base games, respectively)
    • Cerberus - inactive until game 76 is over
    • Daemonis
    • Darian - inactive until a game or two end
    • doldari
    • MrBody - Morrslieb only
    • texasheat
    • visiblehowl
    • SeGaTai
    • flimflammery
    • Ardor
    • caliber
    • BoardGamer
    • susan
    • Gorden858
    • mi-go hunter
    • BlackRaider
    • BrendenPA
    • LoserForHireX
    • jakobagger
    • pesky
    • SaberOverEasy

    Inactive players (can come back into the list at the top by re-posting their interest):
    Spoiler:

    New players: (anyone who gets into a game is removed from this list)
    • BrendenPA
    • SaberOverEasy

    Special inactive list for new players:
    Spoiler:

    Hosts: (in reverse order of most recently played game)
    • visiblehowl
    • Overhamsteren
    • Lykouragh
    • admanb
    • Nought
    • SeGaTai
    • stever777
    • doldari
    • Darian
    • Ardor
    • blahmcblah
    • Gorden858
    • pesky

    Extra special inactive hosts list, aka "Thank you for your kind service, sir (or madam), and feel free to let us know if you want to play again":
    Spoiler:

    For future games, hosts will be encouraged to take the top n players from the list(s) of their choice, thus ensuring over time that everyone who wants to play will get a chance. Players may feel free to request a particular god (or one of two) as they sign up; hosts can take that into consideration to ensure no one is stuck playing as a power they despise.

    For anyone interested, here is a spreadsheet of the results of our games.

    Leaderboard:
    • Darian - 5 wins (KNS)
    • Rius - 4 wins (NTS)
    • The Cow King - 4 wins (NS; Base game Champion)
    • blahmcblah - 4 wins (KSR)
    • El Skid - 3 wins (KNT)
    • susan - 3 wins (KNR)
    • Capfalcon - 3 wins (KTS)
    • Lykouragh - 3 wins (KN)
    • SeGaTai - 3 wins (KS)

    Darian on
  • FunkyWaltDoggFunkyWaltDogg Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    A minor announcement that I ought to have made some time ago:

    Darian and stever777 both now have permissions to promote board app accounts from the default level to "official" CF Citow GM status (the difference being that official GM accounts can use save game numbers from the 1-1000 range reserved to CF games). So if you want to host a game in CF and you post as such in this thread, there's now a reasonable chance that someone will spot your request and actually do something about it!

    While I'm at it, a few words of reminder:

    • If you want to use the board manager to host a PbP game on another forum or something of that nature, feel free to just register an account and go for it. Game numbers > 1000 are available for use by anyone, for any (non-malicious) purpose.
    • If any one of the myriad of eccentricities or bugs in the app is causing you particular grief, you can report it at the bug tracker. Unfortunately, you'll have to register a separate account for the tracker; I've been entirely unsuccessful at mustering the will or the energy to merge accounts with the app. Such is life.

    Next: instructions written by Darian, for applications designed by lazy documentation-averse developers!

    Handtracker (created by admanb)
    Spoiler:

    (Unnamed) CitOW Board App (created by FunkyWaltDogg)
    Spoiler:

    FunkyWaltDogg on
    Burnage wrote:
    FWD is very good at this game.
  • texasheattexasheat Registered User regular
    Groovy, gotta change my bookmark...

  • jakobaggerjakobagger KøbenhavnRegistered User regular
    Chaos in the New Thread

  • JebuJebu Registered User regular
    Sign me back up please.

  • stever777stever777 AFK most Saturdays Registered User regular
    CitOW Game 54 is beginning now.
    texasheat as Khorne
    3clipse as Nurgle
    jakobagger as Tzeentch
    BobCesca as Slaanesh
    FunkyWaltDogg as The Horned Rat

  • So after receiving my copy of CitoW and playing several games with friends, my group has an interesting problem.

    No one is willing to play Khorne any longer.

    We've played three games so far. The first game came down to a close contest between dial tick wins from Tzeench and Slaanesh, with the win narrowly taken by Tzeench. The next game Slaanesh was winning by a massive margin but went a bit crazy claiming VPs on the final turn and accidentally pushed Tzeench over 50 points, who then won on tiebreaker from dial ticks. The final game Nurgle stomped home from beginning to end with a massive point win.

    In all three games, Khorne has been outright denied dial ticks on multiple turns. One the very first game, Tzeench teleported Khorne's first cultist to the end of the board and he didn't tick for the next two turns. On the second game, Khorne did oookkaaayy but wasn't really in contention at the end. The third game ended similarly. Khorne has been played by different people each time since we all want to get a go at all the roles. But the general consensus is that Khorne has about as much chance of winning as a kitten in a burlap sack thats just been thrown off the bridge.

    Basically everyone is just being ultra careful about allowing any combats with Khorne. Everyone saves up their power wherever possible by playing low value cards, and Khorne is first to run out of power in most summon phases. Then everyone plays blocking cards on Khorne (teleport, fields of ecstasy, rain of pus) or just plain summons their guys out of zones where they are under attack. Khorne rarely gets to grips in combat in lots of zones and rarely manages to double tick. While rarely out of contention completely, our play style just really frustrates the Khorne player as they seem to have no way to respond.

    Anyway, having played the other three gods, it's my turn to play Khorne next. I'm looking for some tips that might allow me to take a win for Khorne (or at least do well enough) to prove that Khorne isn't just the redheaded stepchild of the chaos gods. The ultra-cautious playstyle that has built up from the other gods leads me to believe that I might have to play some non-standard tactics to come at them from a different angle and surprise them a bit, so I've actually been thinking of attempting a VP tactic (I know, I know, bear with me here...) in order to shock them out of their standard metagame and force them to plan for alternative options. Full details in the spoiler for those interested in the details of the plan.
    Spoiler:

    So one way or another, I want to shock our groups metagame out of their "Never engage Khorne at any cost" mindset and open the game up a bit to variable tactics.

    Would love to hear any feedback on the above spoiler'd tactics, or any other suggestions that might help with this.

  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    Slightly confused, but how are people always running away from Fields of Carnage, Blood Frenzy, The Blood God's Call & having their regions stalled from Battle Cry? It's entirely possible for Khorne to be screwed out of a tick on round 1 (it's pretty much a game for Tzeentch to teleport Khorne's first unit to Norsca), but for two straight rounds he didn't manage a single kill? I mean from the sounds of it (them avoiding combat with Khorne) people aren't killing Khorne's units because they aren't fighting them. But if they aren't dying, then how is Khorne not blanketing the board with a Warrior in each region? He's got 6 of them and there are only 9 regions and if he's picked up the cultist upgrade later on then (worst case scenario) you have a battle die in each region.

    Are any of the other gods playing any warriors at all? I also find it strange that not one single god is trying to get in their good graces with Khorne to get him to focus on their rival. The other gods do have warriors, but having Khorne fight your battles for you (ie- not screwing him over so that he thanks you and maybe helps you out) is infinitely preferable to having to spend the 2 PP for each warrior to get 1 battle dice (excluding Nurgle). Every other god can't have the perfect counter to Khorne at every conceivable opportunity and Khorne gets first dibs on card slots each Round if he instead wants to stall.

    Currently DMing: None right now! :(
    Characters
    [5e] Myriil Amarthen - AC 17 | HP 14 | Melee +6/1d6+4 | Spell +5/DC 13
  • WylderneedshelpWylderneedshelp Registered User
    edited September 2011
    In that particular game where Khorne didn't tick at all for two ticks, it was actually a three player game. He got teleported to Norsca and had to create a chain of cultists to get out of there leaving him no engagements on turn 1. On turn 2 he managed to play one warrior each in a slaanesh controlled zone and a tzeench controlled zone, but once he was out of power a fields of ecstasy and teleport came out screwing him out of combat. It was a confluence of factors that made it happen, not saying it could happen a lot, but yeah, he started turn 3 at the start of the dial.

    Blood gods call gets played a fair bit and has often been the cause of Khorne double ticks, but there are only 3 in the deck. Blood frenzy gets played obviously and helps. Fields of carnage rarely gets played. Not really sure why since I haven't played Khorne yet myself. I'm assuming that people are prioritising summons over ensuring combats occur. I can remember at least once where a field of carnage was immediately followed by a fields of ecstasy.

    I'm not saying that Khorne never engages anyone. In the two four-player games, he was sort of in contention although perhaps not near the end. In the game that Nurgle won, the nurgle player lost troops to Khorne on multiple consecutive turns and just resummoned them because he was parking out only two areas with lots of troops, and destroying any Khorne that came for him. The Khorne player got ticks for this, of course. It's just that when it comes to the crunch, everyone is careful not to allow Khorne to double tick and he eventually gets driven out of the running for the win.

    As for wether anyone else plays warriors? Tzeench basically never. Slaanesh plays some, and nurgle plays quite a few.

    As for why Khorne isn't blanketing the board within a few turns? Well sometimes he does, and that generally allows a double tick since lots of combats happen. But it also tends to result in a lot of khorne troops being cleared off the board in those combats and makes it easier to keep him to a single tick (or no tick at all) in a following turn after it happens.

    I freely acknowledge that maybe my group are just terrible at playing Khorne. It's hard to say when I've never played it myself. I'm really just looking for tips since I'd like to do as well as possible and try to remove the stigma.

    Wylderneedshelp on
  • DarianDarian Registered User regular
    Quick thought, though, is that Khorne can be surprisingly effective at picking up VP if everyone runs from him. Look to dominate regions using the skull throne, chase others away from ruination bonuses and claim first/second place on your own. Also, try to maintain the lead on peasants killed for the bonus points in case Plunged into Chaos comes up from the Old World deck.
    Don't go after Tzeentch with your first guy, or else go ahead and put your Bloodthirster down with your first play so that he can't mess with you. And remember that Blood Frenzy gets dice through a Field of Ecstasy.

    ----above was my initial response in the main BG thread----

    The meta-game for Chaos in the Old World will evolve over time in your group. For our games here (links to old games are in the gaming index if you want to check them out), Khorne won a couple of early games then was shut out for 15 games before coming on as the strongest power recently. Being shut out the first turn isn't necessarily a death blow; if they let you expand unmolested, you'll have dice in 6 regions on turn two, and there isn't anywhere for them to run. You can miss one more double-tick and still win the game in six rounds.
    The nice thing about opponents who are afraid to engage Khorne is that they're wasting power and stranding corruption. The more spread out the corruption, the longer the game goes and the better chance Khorne will have of coming back. The problem as everyone is learning the game is that it's much more obvious how to stop Khorne (run away!) than the other gods.

    Some discussions on BoardGameGeek that might be useful to look at:
    Umbratus' Khorne Strategy guide
    Magic gecko's Khorne VP approach (he's Magic Geek on here)
    Bloodthirster first play

    The most important bit from that last one is to make sure Tzeentch knows the following:
    twistau wrote:
    I don't understand the 'teleport fear' at all...
    Tzeentch teleporting Khorne's first unit into an out of the way location is a terrible move.
    This move helps Slannesh and Nurgle far more than it does him.

    Oh, but spotting THAT takes a lot more experience than spotting "OMG, I can totally Maximum screwage teh Khorn!!!11!!oneone!"
    So it is very reasonable that it will come up every once in a while.

    As stated later, Tzeentch is usually better off sending Khorne toward Slaanesh or Nurgle, or best off using a teleport to get himself to far-flung Warpstones or set up position to be able to fight for first/second place ruination in someone else's region.

  • DarianDarian Registered User regular
    In that particular game where Khorne didn't tick at all for two ticks, it was actually a three player game. He got teleported to Norsca and had to create a chain of cultists to get out of there leaving him no engagements on turn 1. On turn 2 he managed to play one warrior each in a slaanesh controlled zone and a tzeench controlled zone, but once he was out of power a fields of ecstasy and teleport came out screwing him out of combat. It was a confluence of factors that made it happen, not saying it could happen a lot, but yeah, he started turn 3 at the start of the dial.

    Three player games are very different in feel from a 4 or 5 player (expansion) game. Three player, without Nurgle to beat up, Khorne almost certainly should have prioritized VP accumulation, with opportunistic ticking, and the initial Bloodthirster play becomes even more tempting.
    Also, Field of Carnage is a great card; even if it just forces the Ecstasy or Changer, you're keeping them on the defensive.

  • texasheattexasheat Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Ok, having a slight problem over in game 54, yea i know, we haven't even had a turn yet. I can't see the game board from my current computer...I took a look at some other games, and 51 52 54 I can't see the board. but i can see the boards from game 53. Can i ask what the difference is? Maybe i can fix the problem on my end, but i'm not sure what the difference is...

    E- Scratch this, I'm at work and the company is blocking imageshack. Photobucket isn't blocked it seems, and that appears to be the only difference, and thus I can't do anything until i get home. Never mind...

    texasheat on
  • LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Registered User regular
    as i now live very far away from my normal gaming group I need to start playing this again.

    I'd like get myself on the player list. I haven't played any games online so far, but I know my way around the game itself.

    my god preferences are: Horned Rat, Nurgle, Khorne, then I don't really care

    "The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
    "We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
  • peskypesky Registered User regular
    Game 55 is in pre-game stages with invites being sent out.

  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    Can you put me back on the list?

    I think I might actually manage to get the hang of this and it's fun so far.

  • FunkyWaltDoggFunkyWaltDogg Registered User regular
    So...game 51 is amazing.

    Burnage wrote:
    FWD is very good at this game.
  • peskypesky Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Game 55 is underway with
    Bashar as Nurgle
    LoserForHireX as Horned Rat
    Gene as Slaanesh
    Ardor as Khorne
    Cow King as Tzeentch

    pesky on
  • lodwilklodwilk Registered User
    If I could be put back on the list, then that would be greatly appreciated.

    DM in Age of Ascension (IC/OOC)
    Tzeentch in CitOW Game 53
  • texasheattexasheat Registered User regular
    I guess my other post on the other forums got missed, can i get put back on the list please?

  • stever777stever777 AFK most Saturdays Registered User regular
    So, what were you guys saying about Game 51 being mine to lose? :cry:

  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    So...game 51 is amazing.

    I still don't understand how with 4 dice split between 3 gods, we needed only 1 kill to prevent it from ruining and we all missed.

    Currently DMing: None right now! :(
    Characters
    [5e] Myriil Amarthen - AC 17 | HP 14 | Melee +6/1d6+4 | Spell +5/DC 13
  • blahmcblahblahmcblah President Klepto In your Quorum, stealing your pensRegistered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Aegis wrote:
    So...game 51 is amazing.

    I still don't understand how with 4 dice split between 3 gods, we needed only 1 kill to prevent it from ruining and we all missed.

    CHAOS! Also round 4 was FRIGGIN HUGE.

    Edit: Also I'm pretty sure only 3 of those dice might've prevented the ruination; Nurgle probably would've killed the Bloodletter with a hit.

    blahmcblah on
    Playing: "Caprica" Six in Exodus Game 12 of Battlestar Galactica
    President Romo Lampkin in BSG: Daybreak Game 1
  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    That was a hell of a lot of under empiring and skitterleaping from the Rat. Maybe the Old World won't win after all =(

  • blahmcblahblahmcblah President Klepto In your Quorum, stealing your pensRegistered User regular
    I never thought it would! Maybe if it was Morrslieb Eclipsed + Vermin Outbreak all game long. But even if all people do is play cultists all day, regions will still ruin and the game will end somehow. I have a hard time believing an Old World victory will actually ever happen.

    Playing: "Caprica" Six in Exodus Game 12 of Battlestar Galactica
    President Romo Lampkin in BSG: Daybreak Game 1
  • DarianDarian Registered User regular
    texasheat wrote:
    I guess my other post on the other forums got missed, can i get put back on the list please?

    Sorry about that; must have missed your edit there.

  • texasheattexasheat Registered User regular
    Darian wrote:
    texasheat wrote:
    I guess my other post on the other forums got missed, can i get put back on the list please?

    Sorry about that; must have missed your edit there.

    Now worries. I forgot i had to edit to put that into it.

  • JebuJebu Registered User regular
    Nurgle consistently impresses me with his comeback power. I always get blindsided by the 30+ point turns he can get.

  • Magic GeekMagic Geek Registered User regular
    So I am going to be on 75+ points this turn?... :)

  • blahmcblahblahmcblah President Klepto In your Quorum, stealing your pensRegistered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Nope Probably not, but you did pull off 33 points last round. :P

    Edit: Determined it's highly improbable, but possible!

    blahmcblah on
    Playing: "Caprica" Six in Exodus Game 12 of Battlestar Galactica
    President Romo Lampkin in BSG: Daybreak Game 1
  • texasheattexasheat Registered User regular
    So, something has been bothering me since i started playing this game. Maybe it's been discussed already, but the probility chart at the start of every game is off. WAY off. Kinda broken off. It says, that with 6 battle dice, 1 success is only 7%? When a miss is 1.6%? Would it not be the rest of that 100%? 1.6$ chance of 0. 98.4% chance of success on 1? The whole chart seems...i don't know...broken somehow. Even the thought of it, the chance of success on 6 dice is WAY higher than 7%.

    I've been trying to figure out a good formula for success and failure, but i seem to be failing lol. I've got the lines of succes one 1 dice, that easy. I even have success completed for 0 success and 1 success all the way through 6 dice. However the rest is tricky.

    If i can figure it out for the simplest of them, i can get the rest. 2 dice, 2 successes. What are the odds? Well 1 dice has an 8.33% chance of doing it solo. 2 dice have a 50 50 chance without 6's. I don't get the formula to make that equil a percentage. In my mind, it's 16.66% chance either dice will roll a 6 and be a success, as well as, % chance both dice are 4/5, you can't include 6's cause that would be more hits chance at extra hits right?

    It's already getting complicated and i can't even keep it strait on paper. Will someone smarter than me please help me out?

  • blahmcblahblahmcblah President Klepto In your Quorum, stealing your pensRegistered User regular
    edited September 2011
    You're misunderstanding the way the chart works. 7.8% is the chances of getting exactly 1 hit on 6 dice. The best odds of any exact number are at 3 hits, 23.7%. To get your odds of getting at least 1 hit, all you need to do is subtract the 1.6% chance of missing completely, and yes, you get 98.4%. I think the easiest way to remember how good your chances are without looking at the chart is just to remember that your expected value is 0.6 hits per die, or 3.6 hits in the 6 dice example.

    Edit: If you want to know your odds of getting at least 3 or 4 hits or whatever, just take the percentage by that number and add it up with everything above it, or just add everything below it and subtract the number from 100, whichever is easier. For example, if you're wondering about your chances of getting at least 3 hits on 6 dice, it's 73%.

    blahmcblah on
    Playing: "Caprica" Six in Exodus Game 12 of Battlestar Galactica
    President Romo Lampkin in BSG: Daybreak Game 1
  • texasheattexasheat Registered User regular
    blahmcblah wrote:
    You're misunderstanding the way the chart works. 7.8% is the chances of getting exactly 1 hit on 6 dice. The best odds of any exact number are at 3 hits, 23.7%. To get your odds of getting at least 1 hit, all you need to do is subtract the 1.6% chance of missing completely, and yes, you get 98.4%. I think the easiest way to remember how good your chances are without looking at the chart is just to remember that your expected value is 0.6 hits per die, or 3.6 hits in the 6 dice example.

    Edit: If you want to know your odds of getting at least 3 or 4 hits or whatever, just take the percentage by that number and add it up with everything above it, or just add everything below it and subtract the number from 100, whichever is easier. For example, if you're wondering about your chances of getting at least 3 hits on 6 dice, it's 73%.

    AHH!!! That makes since. ok never mind, thank you for explaining.

  • The BasharThe Bashar Registered User regular
    Can I please be put back on the list?

  • blahmcblahblahmcblah President Klepto In your Quorum, stealing your pensRegistered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Clan Rat Upgrade + Clan Rats Skitterleaping to region previously devoid of Clan Rats. Extra rat for 0? The upgrade text doesn't say "during the summoning phase," so I can't think of a good reason why not. I have no idea why I never thought of that while I was actually playing as HR...

    blahmcblah on
    Playing: "Caprica" Six in Exodus Game 12 of Battlestar Galactica
    President Romo Lampkin in BSG: Daybreak Game 1
  • texasheattexasheat Registered User regular
    blahmcblah wrote:
    Clan Rat Upgrade + Clan Rats Skitterleaping to region previously devoid of Clan Rats. Extra rat for 0? The upgrade text doesn't say "during the summoning phase," so I can't think of a good reason why not. I have no idea why I never thought of that while I was actually playing as HR...

    The HR continues to be the most awesome god out there. WAY too powerful.

  • DarianDarian Registered User regular
    blahmcblah wrote:
    Clan Rat Upgrade + Clan Rats Skitterleaping to region previously devoid of Clan Rats. Extra rat for 0? The upgrade text doesn't say "during the summoning phase," so I can't think of a good reason why not. I have no idea why I never thought of that while I was actually playing as HR...

    Even better, that should also work via the Under Empire when checking for ruination. Good catch.

  • TmoiyTmoiy Registered User
    Darian wrote:
    blahmcblah wrote:
    Clan Rat Upgrade + Clan Rats Skitterleaping to region previously devoid of Clan Rats. Extra rat for 0? The upgrade text doesn't say "during the summoning phase," so I can't think of a good reason why not. I have no idea why I never thought of that while I was actually playing as HR...

    Even better, that should also work via the Under Empire when checking for ruination. Good catch.

    My mind is totally blown.

  • RiusRius Registered User regular
  • texasheattexasheat Registered User regular
    Rius wrote:
    Next game Horned Rat

    I call dibs

    Man, damn it...we should just ban the HR, no more. Lol. 4 player chaos only.

  • FunkyWaltDoggFunkyWaltDogg Registered User regular
    texasheat wrote:
    Rius wrote:
    Next game Horned Rat

    I call dibs

    Man, damn it...we should just ban the HR, no more. Lol. 4 player chaos only.

    Come now, it's not nearly so imbalanced as that (check out the game stats at BGG if you don't believe me). I think the biggest issue is that the rate of games played per player is far fewer than if we were all together playing IRL, so our metagame adjusts much more slowly than it otherwise would. We still don't really know what we're doing with the expansion.

    Burnage wrote:
    FWD is very good at this game.
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