[Chaos] Chaos in the Old World - Discussion and signups - the Horned Rat

Darian

I'll drop you to the inactive lists once you reach the top; when you come back, you'll pop back at the top of the list.

mi-go hunter

Great! I'll let you know when the testing is over

MrBody

Why would clan rats score 1st and 2nd ruination but not ruination participation? They either have the "count as corruption equal to their power cost" ability when mind controlled or they don't.

I'd say they do (both for participation and 1st/2nd) and just chalk it up to the spirit of the mind control rule trumping the text. Doesn't Slaneesh have a hard enough time already?

blahmcblah

I agree with MrBody and would also say that they count for participation.

stever777

Guys, you're going up against Darian.
Careful...

Darian

Well, that was my original thinking; the question is what is a trait of the figure vs. a feature of the Horned Rat.

And going against me in an unsettled rules question is just fine.

Ardor

For what it's worth, I agree with the controlled clan rat giving participation in ruination and helping to place for 1st/2nd.

When you gave an answer regarding the controlled lepers while nurgle has the leper upgrade (Rule 18), you did rule that the owner of that leper does get the leper benefit of +1 corruption. If HR's clan rats place no corruption but give ruination participation and the chance at 1st/2nd place, I think the controller of a clan rat should get the same.

Darian

Hmm. Looking at the rules again (which I should have done last night):

Ruination & Scoring Ruined Regions
The Horned Rat’s figures do not place corruption tokens, which in turn means that the Horned Rat player does not directly affect ruination. Instead, when scoring a ruined region, his figures in that region count as corruption equal to their power cost (e.g., a Clan Rat counts as “1,” a Rat Ogre counts as “2,” and a Vermin Lord counts as “3” Horned Rat corruption).
Also, if the Horned Rat player has at least one figure in a region when it is ruined, he is considered a participating ruiner and scores victory points indicated for ruiners on the ruination card. These unique abilities are inherent to the Horned Rat's followers only.

(Bold in original.) That does imply the point-scoring as corruption and participation through presence is inherent to the figures, rather than a power of the god, and it does seem less confusing to treat it that way.

edit: Let's try this, instead:

Q: What happens when Slaanesh takes control of a follower of the Horned Rat?
[My ruling - A Slaanesh-controlled rat places no corruption, counts as participation for ruination, and counts as its PP cost in corruption when scoring 1st and 2nd ruination.]

That wording works for base games, as well, where Slaanesh might be controlling a rat ogre instead of a clan rat.

doldari

Game 71 has begun, with:

texasheat as Khorne
Aegis as Nurgle
Jebu as Tzeentch
Darian as Slaanesh
jakobagger as The Horned Rat

Aegis

Man that sucks. By the wording of Filth, it triggers neither Nurgle's Quest nor Ultimate Plague.

And I don't think it counts for the purposes of fulfilling Nurgle's dial condition either.

Aegis

Oh wait, it got Errata'd! It does trigger them after all!

The text of the cards in handtracker, are we keeping them updated with FAQ changes? If so, Filth's not updated.

SeGaTai

The wording has been replaced in the FAQ, I think it says remove 1 corruption, then place 1 corruption. So it will trigger all of those effects.

Overhamsteren

If a region ruins in the battle phase due to Havoc do cultists still get to place corruption in the corruption phase?

blahmcblah

It doesn't actually ruin until the corruption phase, so yes.

mi-go hunter

I believe so. You check for ruination during the corruption phase after cultists have placed corruption.

Overhamsteren

Oh yeah that's right, if I used my brain I would remember this once came up when Tzeentch placed warpstones from his dial. Thank you for the quick answer.

stever777

CitOW Game 60 has ended in a Tzeentch VP victory by jakobagger.

Styyx

Just popping in to make sure I'm back on the list.

BobCesca

Having lost again, here to ask to get back on the list please.

One day I'll get the hang of this game...one day...

blahmcblah

Congrats to 38thDoe for ending The Horned Rat's 20-game drought (assuming HR doesn't win Game 62, which is still possible, I suppose) with his win in Game 68! I think that's the second longest losing streak since base-game Tzeentch's between games 18 and 40, so it's good to see it end. Rat power!

Magic Geek

1) Hornrat plays Verminous Horde (everything costs 1 more)
2) TZ uses Mystical Disregard to play a card on top of Verminous Horde.

Does that card cost +1?

If so,... why?

Ardor

I think it's an order of operations question.

1) Pay cost to play card in the region
2) Choose to play the card over Verminous Horde

The question and answer to your question last year.

Gorden858

So because I can't wait for my invitation for another game after my last humiliating defeat I decided to force my position in the list a little bit upwards by joining in this mysterious hosting business.

I started the Thread here:
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/158185/chaos-citow-game-72-gorden-is-giving-his-hosting-debut-be-kind

and sent invitations to @Elldren, @Sticks, @FelixSomethingSomething, @Cerberus and @Doldari

Do I need something else? (Hosting rights on the handtracker/Boardapp?)

Darian

Gorden858 wrote: »

I started the Thread here:
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/158185/chaos-citow-game-72-gorden-is-giving-his-hosting-debut-be-kind

Do I need something else? (Hosting rights on the handtracker/Boardapp?)

Once you make an account at the boardapp, PM me and let me know the account name so I can upgrade it. That will let you make a correctly-numbered game, but have no other effects. You don't need anything special for Handtracker.

SeGaTai

It looks like Game 62 needs a replacement for Tzeentch, will take the first person who PM's me.

Magic Geek

So, from a philosophical perspective,....
Why does Khorne get 7 PP compared to 6pp for everyone else?

mi-go hunter

I think it's because Khorne summons warriors often and they are quite expensive. He has to spend a hefty amount of PP to chase down and kill the other gods' followers.

Magic Geek

Ardor wrote: »

I think it's an order of operations question.

1) Pay cost to play card in the region
2) Choose to play the card over Verminous Horde

The question and answer to your question last year.

While that is a pretty reasonable statement, are you sure it aint the other way around?
1) Place card
2) Pay

?

Darian

Hmm. I think the new FAQ probably came out after we had that discussion the first time.

Q: When Tzeentch uses “Mystical Disregard” to play on top of another player’s Chaos card, does it just cover up the card below it and cancel its effect, or does Tzeentch’s card also take effect?
A: Yes, Tzeentch’s card also takes effect. As the card states, the card it is played on top of is canceled. Tzeentch’s Chaos card is treated as if it were just played into an empty card space.

Which implies that the previous card would not affect the cost of the new card. Double-checking BGG to see if there is any other ruling, but it sounds as though you just discard whatever was there then put down the new card, ignoring the old one's effects.

Darian

I'm now grabbing people for CitOW game 73, looking for two regulars, a newbie, and two hosts. I'll probably be grabbing a third regular, though, since @Daemonis hasn't been around in a while.

Overhamsteren

Well fluffwise I'm pretty sure Khorne is the most powerful and not just physically but overall.

But yeah his 2 powerpoint, 1 defense models might have something to do with the decision to give him 7pp as well.

SeGaTai

I've thought about the Khorne 7PP thing and figured it also had to do with going first so if he didn't he would often be out of power to early compared to everyone else. I do wonder if it adds to some of the problem with Morrslieb Khorne being really strong-bloodletter upgrade or not. While he might be paying for more warriors than other gods typically, for some VP strategies you don't need as many. It does make it just a little bit easier to out dominate everyone else, having you know more power on the board at any one time.

doldari

Magic Geek wrote: »

So, from a philosophical perspective,....
Why does Khorne get 7 PP compared to 6pp for everyone else?

I think that other god place 6 figures, but Khorne place just 5 figures. :winky:

doldari

I need to sign up again.

Gorden858

Game 72 has started with Sticks, Doldari, Ardor, Belfast and FelixSomethingSomething.

Magic Geek

Hey.
Back on Feb 20 I asked to be out back on the list, just below Doldari, on page 14.

Admittedly that was directly before a particulaly impressive flaming rant about the Bloodletter Upgrade, so, fair enough it got missed..... don't spoze that could be corrected?

Darian

Sorry about missing you; good news is you'll likely get a spot in game 73 if you want it (I'm not overly hopeful that @Daemonis is still around).

Cerberus

Darian, when you next come to make updates to the list for game 73/4 Bobcesca is on the list twice, just so you know.

Magic Geek

Thank You.
I have no idea what I would do at work without you guys.... (:

Currently I am rereading Order of the Stick.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html


Playing online means you get a huge amount of time to think and plan and study.
After playing a game as TZ (almost) ... Tz seems Strong. So many great cheap cards, lots of good upgrades. And 8 cultists!

MrBody

Oops. Please update me for expansion games only.

I've also only had ONE expert card come up for all my time with the expansion and would like to see more of them. Would it be fine if I passed any games without them?