Ok so I got bored the other off tank is tanking at the start of tonight... I have an tanky pali with some old gear. This will not be a completely accurate test but I will tell you everything I swap out. I am using RAWR mitigation and survival points to gauge the difference as they are alot better at theory crafting than I am. The gear I am using will be what I have available on my currently almost fresh 85 tanky paladin. The point here is replacing items that a person would use/have from leveling up to 85 with 358 pvp crafted items will not cause the problems but just being a fresh 85 will.
Test 1 both unenchanted and both unreforged:
Replacing Hardened Obsidium Chest with Bloodied: 1.54% increase in mitigation pts 1.13 increase in survival pts points for pvp item.
Not a completely accurate test I know as the pvp chest has mastery but the tanky chest does have an extra secondary stat. Neither was reforged/changed. Reforging the hit on the green will decrease the difference a bit I guess but the point here is there is no loss in "mitigation" / "avoidance". As stated earlier the increased sta/str from the higher ilvl helped lessen the loss (of which there is no loss for this particular swap) because of the small amount of parry from the str and the mastery on this item.
Test 2:
Replacing a bloodied shoulder with 346 blue tanky Earthshape Pauldrons (tanky item is unreforged/changed but has mas/sta gem in it) .58% increase in miti points .07% decrease in surv points.
This test was the true show. According to Rawr. Who I trust has the numbers correctly. Replacing a 358 pvp crafted with res exp as its secondary has MINIMAL increase in mitigation points and survival points. This is without reforging the pvp item's expertise into mastery/parry/dodge. The 346 tanking shoulders have dodge/mastery on them if you were curious.
So can we dismiss this wives tale once and for all? If your smart about it using 358 pvp items in heroics will NOT cause significant hardships on the healer. In some cases it will actually benifit your gear. Heroics are mainly about execution anyways.
The issue isn't replacing one piece over another on a case by case basis.
The issue was hitting 85 and buying a full set of bloodied gear to cheat the ilevel. Even better, some people were just buying gear and leaving it unused in their bags to inflate their ilevel. Healers, in particular, felt the burden of these tanks, because they're the ones who get blamed for the tank dying. So, no, we can't dismiss this "wives tale" because of the stigma it's placed on the game from the beginning of the xpac. Now, when I heal, I don't mind a pvp piece or two, but however you want to rationalize it, or say it's okay, it's still cheating the system. I personally wish that if you had a piece of gear with resilience on, that you couldn't gear for heroics, but that's just the other extreme.
I really wish they would just seperate pvp and pve completely, with skills working in different ways, so I don't have to have my 6 second interrupt go back to 15 seconds and now have to choose between interrupts and better totems/instant ghostwolf.
If you don't heal, you won't understand the backlash, it's that simple.
You can take those numbers and extrapolate across a set. Anyone who buys a whole set of pvp gear to tank in is just goosery I agree. I havent been advocating that at all. What I have been stating is that when someone says "pvp gear sucks for tanking/healing/dps because of the loss of secondary stats" that they are just in fact wrong. Period. I think Test 2 was the true nail in my point. It doesnt cause significant issues and even placed on a character as a set it wouldnt cause significant differences from what they would have had as a fresh 85. I never said raiding. I never even said ZA/ZG.
I would also agree with separating out PVP/PVE as PVP has caused many many PVE nerfs during the years.
Edit: I found a post on Tankspot. It didnt say what pvp gear he bought or to what extent he went with gemming and reforging but there was a guy who replaced his tank set with a full pvp set. He said in increased his armor by 600ish his health by 5kish and decreased his dodge/parry by 8%. http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?72974-Prot-Warrior-amp-PvP-Gear-(85-Heroics-Dungeons). It is cheating the system but this is heroics we are talking about.
I got my druid tank tanking zulroics about 48 hours after hitting 85 by buying a few BoEs, getting some decent quest items to replace the 85 heirlooms, and rep items. I don't think I got a decent drop from the few normals I did, and I'm pretty sure I didn't even complete a single normal heroic. I never once considered buying pvp gear to pump my ilvl (although I did have two brewfest trinkets to pump my ilvl, so yes I guess I "cheated" a little that way). I'd say buying pvp gear for a tank is just a waste of gold. Save up and buy an item that you'll actually use for its intended purpose.
The paltry amount of armor and health he gained isn't worth the dodge/parry he gave up. PvP gear will work in a pinch but it's best replaced asap with something more suitable.
Also, tanks that show up wearing a mix of pvp/tank/dps, quest greens/blues, no gems/enchants and expect to tank can go die in a fire.
PVP gear is usually cheaper than crafted. And both you will replace soon in ZA/ZG unless you go the 378 route but who has that kind of money at 85 fresh. Not everyone is rich.
If I queue into a zul'roic on my healer, and I see a tank with any pvp gear on, I'm voting to kick him or not healing him at all until I'm kicked. Wearing that gear is idiotic, and if you do it than you are an idiot too. This isn't me insulting anyone, it's just a fact.
If I queue into a zul'roic on my healer, and I see a tank with any pvp gear on, I'm voting to kick him or not healing him at all until I'm kicked. Wearing that gear is idiotic, and if you do it than you are an idiot too. This isn't me insulting anyone, it's just a fact.
The only insult is how shitty a healer you must be to have a nervous breakdown over a piece of PvP gear.
I'm geared enough as a healer that I could heal a dps plate wearer as a tank, so I don't bother looking at people's gear the few times I queue up for heroics lately (namely when the satchel is active).
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GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
I'm also in the camp that see's it as perfectly fine to wear a few pieces of PvP gear. Helmet+Shoulders are a great example, because you can't get epics for those slots anyway (pre Zulroics) and they give the additional set bonus to your primary stat. I'd be wary of a tank with like half his gear with resilience, but other than that, I don't really care. Even as a healer.
If I had a dollar for every wipe because someone was stupid and lost a dollar for every wipe because someone had shitty gear, I'd have a lot of money, if you catch my drift. And you can't inspect stupid.
I used to wear a PVP relic because its base stats were higher and the 359 PVE one was just as poorly itemized from my perspective as a bear. I tanked Sinestra etc like that, and unsurprisingly, no one in a heroic 5 man ever noticed what was apparently my shame.
But on my alts, I have seen a ton of "tanks" in very nearly all PVP gear, and it is quite scary. They also tend to never have anything gemmed or enchanted. I also once saw a PVP-geared DK trying to tank dualwield. I could not quite believe it.
I have tired to heal on my paladin a lot of tanks with full pvp and they were not as scary or horrifying as when my brother and I failed to keep a death knight up with our priests but still it was a poor choice of blizzard to force people to raid when pvp gear is far easier to get
I think one of the problems with tanking is it was simplfied at the expense of death knights we all know how awful that was. Druids was a learned thing even though I never really played a bear I figured it out after sometime since there is a few differnces between cats and bears
I am curious about blizzcon because they are closing the Q&A to just the forums and Twitter leads me to more proof they are going to get boo'd at for the half ass mess they made.
BlizzCon: Ask the Artists
At this year’s BlizzCon we have a stage dedicated to featuring Blizzard artists of all disciplines and styles, from Glenn Rane (Digital Painting, Creative Development) to Samwise Didier (Traditional Drawing, StarCraft II). Whether you’re attending the event or watching from home, we’re giving you an opportunity on the forums to ask a question of the artists. All you have to do is list the discipline and/or category below which best fits your art-related question and ask away here: http://us.battle.net/blizzcon/en/for...c/3341766856#1
If selected, your inquiry will be read and answered live from the Artist Stage at BlizzCon! [...] (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Yeah, preselecting questions is probably necessary to eliminate all the questions about "Why does my tier set suck?" or "Are you really that sensitive about people wanting to transmog to earlier armor?"
If I queue into a zul'roic on my healer, and I see a tank with any pvp gear on, I'm voting to kick him or not healing him at all until I'm kicked. Wearing that gear is idiotic, and if you do it than you are an idiot too. This isn't me insulting anyone, it's just a fact.
The only insult is how shitty a healer you must be to have a nervous breakdown over a piece of PvP gear.
When I started healing, I did the same thing. It's not fair to make me work harder because you can't get the right gear.
Now, with the season 10 being so much better than 346, yeah, it doesn't matter. Now I only kick pvp gear after a wipe, but I don't even inspect until we wipe, and honestly, my healing gear is so good I can pretty much keep up a straight dps tank if I wanted to.
That doesn't mean that I should have to.
Some people kick on principle. There's nothing wrong with that. But remember, pvp gear used to be shittier, and that's what most healers remember when they get into a queue now with a person too fucking lazy to get real gear, no matter if the pvp gear is equivalent to pve gear. For all you saints with your season 10 helm, shoulder, and weapon, there were 5 pvp dps/tanks (and healers, to an extent). the dps pulling 4k, the tanks chewing up healer mana, and the healers being literally out of mana every pull, but too lazy to buy water or drink.
What's wrong with putting in the time to get the gear the "right" way? I'm not even talking running normal 85s. I have 6 of them, and I only ever ran normals on the 1st one, because heroics were harder to heal back then. crafted 359/365 gear isn't that hard to get. fuck, if you're a tank, you can do the molten front and get 2 pieces of good 365 gear (neck/plate feet). Stop being lazy/cheap.
If you meet the gear requirements honestly (so, not cheesing via pvp/offspec gear), you can jump right in, particularly since you won't hav eto worry about getting a terrible tank/healer.
PVP gear is hardly cheesing. It works just fine for beginning heroic gear now that the most useful stat for most classes is int/sta/str/agi.
Except if you're a healer or tank. Especially tanks. Secondary stats are the most useful stats for tanks, and if you're tanking in pvp gear, half of your stat budget goes down the drain due to Resilience. Stamina's not quite as important, really. Once you're beyond a certain health threshold, you shouldn't actively gear for it anymore.
That threshold is way past normal heroics. Your fine as a tank in pvp gear. I have a pali alt that tanks heroics just fine in them. Healer too but dont play him as much as my other alts and most likely wont till last.
Hate to tell ya, but if you're not dying in PvP gear, it's most likely not you being really good, but the healer busting his ass.
I don't know much about tanking in PvP gear, as I've never done it. Every expansion I do quests and dailies and normals until I have the gear specifically designed for tanking sufficient to tank heroics. But I do know about healers in PvP gear, as I get stuck with them from time to time. And I cal always tell, because I have to stop, and wait after large trash pulls, as that healer goes out of mana through the instance. Healer out of mana, inspect, yup, look at the PvP gear. Whereas PvE geared healers can normally run along behind me without pause.
I guess it's a difference in outlook. All I do is tank, and it's always my goal to be the best tank I can be. This includes getting the best gear for tanking that I can aquire, as opposed to someone who doesn't really care that much, and just wants to squeak by with the minimum required iLvl with as little effort as possible.
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
Heroic Alysrazor = The olympics of situational awareness.
Spent half the night wiping on her, our best attempt was a heartbreaker that was sub 1 mil health (my bubble was down due to being caught out of position with the meteor being on the other side of the map when I was trying to kill a Burning Initiate, and the mage that was left blew iceblock but the dots that were up weren't enough).
The Ilvl stuff is dumb and based upon a mod people abused the shit out of
I loved tanking in tbc and wrath it was the change in 4.0 that left me shaking my head and running back to arms on my warrior.
I really did not understand why people said it was the same as it was in Tbc with the changes they made to tanking. Because I tanked just fine as ARMS all you needed was some decent tank gear and a sheild
I did most of Kara in the recoloured valour set with my valour belt I wore from level 52 To 72
Heroic Alysrazor = The olympics of situational awareness.
Spent half the night wiping on her, our best attempt was a heartbreaker that was sub 1 mil health (my bubble was down due to being caught out of position with the meteor being on the other side of the map when I was trying to kill a Burning Initiate, and the mage that was left blew iceblock but the dots that were up weren't enough).
Heroic Alysrazor = The olympics of situational awareness.
Spent half the night wiping on her, our best attempt was a heartbreaker that was sub 1 mil health (my bubble was down due to being caught out of position with the meteor being on the other side of the map when I was trying to kill a Burning Initiate, and the mage that was left blew iceblock but the dots that were up weren't enough).
She is actually waaaaay easier now than pre nerf.
Oh I'm sure she is. It was just a bit of a shock for some people who were still having troubles with avoiding brushfires/not getting hit with tornadoes/etc.
EDIT: Realized I had said volcanoes instead of tornadoes
Nobody on
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
The Ilvl stuff is dumb and based upon a mod people abused the shit out of
I loved tanking in tbc and wrath it was the change in 4.0 that left me shaking my head and running back to arms on my warrior.
I really did not understand why people said it was the same as it was in Tbc with the changes they made to tanking. Because I tanked just fine as ARMS all you needed was some decent tank gear and a sheild
I did most of Kara in the recoloured valour set with my valour belt I wore from level 52 To 72
Them show me how their calculations are wrong. I am not sure how you can abuse a mod that parses item stats based on a calculation. Prove to me it's dumb please. Lets get blunt here once they simplified stats the requirement for secondary stats diminished. Especially with re forging and removal of defense for tanks. It's not the same now than even wrath. My combined parry dodge on my raid heroic killing tank is about 25% off the top of my head. I actually reforge out of alot of secondary stats (dodge\parry) for mastery now.
Like I said I have first hand knowledge of using a few crafted pvp in dps and tanking to get into normal heroics. Contrary to popular belief I do know WTF I'm doing and I noticed no big problems. It was easier than my properly geared tank at release because heroics right now are a joke. I still remember on my Mage I queued up after grabbing and reforge several pvp crafted hearing people whine about my gear... Until I out performed all the rest of them.
It's the player. Not the gear. The rest of the posts are evident of that.
The gear score mod people had in wrath. What I am referring to is people gear scoring people to get into heroics and raids for a pug and being an ass about it
It seems to be Blizzard saw the mod was popular and incorporated into the game as item level. I figured out what the enchanting miniums about why you could not put sunfire on a broom after this.
It's the feeling I have they got rid of a lot of things with tanking and simplifed it over how druid tanks were a mystery and death knights were awful for most people.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
IMO PvP gear should count as one ilvl step below what it actually is... like, 359 counts as 346, etc. That would make it about right for Dungeon Finder.
Item levels have existed on gear forever, but they've always been a mostly internal system to determine allocation of stats. They were also implemented as dungeon requirements in wrath, though it was also an internal system so the player didn't exactly know their item level in relation to the requirements.
PvP gear does kind of muck up the spirit of this system though, because while PvP items have item levels comparative to ther PvE counterparts, they're not nearly as potent at the same jobs, and vice versa. It's not some insurmountable obstacle, but it definitely matters.
Actually a lot of the fights in the new dungeons are more friendly to melee than ranged. 4 out of the 5 bosses in End Time are more melee friendly than they are ranged friendly (and Sylvanas, the 1 out of 5, is basically a tossup). In the second (technically third) dungeon, the first boss died so quick I can't remember his mechanics, the second boss is the most blatant melee friendly boss in the game bar none, and the last boss's attacks only focus on ranged characters if I remember properly (outside of the attack that hits everyone that is).
They've got plenty of time to fix that and fuck the shit out of melee before 4.3 hits!
It was at the end of wrath and the WTF icc dungeons heroic problem drama they caused when they did it
PVP gear is part of the overall problem in the game the other is forcing people to raid as it's far easier to get and pvp goes on at all hours compared to the fineite times raids start
It would have easier to put back in the weekly raid quest than do a LFR.
It's nothing new that people are extremely lazy with gear. More people need to votekick others for gross negligence in gear. It's not that it's a bad idea, it's that they don't value the time and effort of others. When I had a tank alt I crafted all the BOE epics I could, full enchants, reforge, etc. before I even attempted Heroics as I didn't want to be a burden on a group. (Similar for my Rogue main)
Inspecting people would far too often show missing enchants, no gems or terrible green gems, all sta gems, lots of pvp gear, green quality equipment, etc.
It shows a lack of effort and lack of respect for your fellow players and I wouldn't stand for it. Why should we carry you while I do 3x more DPS on my Rogue? Or why should the run take way longer than it should because you are undergeared as a tank and/or have never done the boss before/researched it and never even ran it on normal mode or ask us what to do?
Carrying bad people just reinforces that as acceptable behavior.
I am missing gems because the one person who had a lockdown with thier guild the Ah left the server so I am working on my paladin's jewelcrafting much to my dismay
I think it's dumb they want you to do all of stonecore and grind to exalted on everyone of your characters for a shoulder enchant. I thought everyone hated the sons of H grind in wrath
DPS can get away with being in pvp gear alot more than either of the 2 other roles. You can't argue that me going into a heroic in full dps kit is in anyway similar to going in to tank in the equivalent kit.
Whatever stats resilience eats up for dps, aren't needed anywhere near as much as the avoidance stats for tanks.
I'm not going to begrudge anyone with the odd bit of pvp gear if they're healing or tanking, but I healed a DK in full PvP kit (so that's ilevel 371?) in heroic SFK, and his health (160k+) yo yo'd. He later realised he was in his pvp kit, swapped to his pve kit and I didn't have to drink after every 2-3 pulls.
We don't really have much to go on yet, but I'm dreading what Titan turns out to be, honestly. I used to be really excited, thinking it must be a Scifi-based MMO, since they don't want to cannibalize their WoW market, and D3 is also fantasy. Then we got the Activision merger and Blizzard reneging on lots of their promises related to the integrity of the lore and game, item shop, etc. So once I finally saw what HAS been said about Titan so far, reading between the lines I'm extremely skeptical it will be something I will enjoy playing.
Basically this is what I've found:
It's their most "accessible game to date" they also said something about "most ambitious" -- READ: Casual and watered down as hell along the lines that WoW has been creeping for several years now. Most likely also cross-platform with consoles. Scifi genre is very unlikely, as that is always more niche than modern or fantasy genres. Based on some statements, theorized that it's most likely near-future Earth-type.
So my belief is it's at best going to be some "light scifi" near-future similar to a "COD online". Seeing as Activision by this point has fully corrupted Blizzard and hollowed it out into a shell of its former self -- Expect ultra-casual, lots of item shop whoring, watered down gameplay, social-media tie-ins or other stuff where you can interact with the game via the main client, smart phone, web apps, etc.
It's nothing new that people are extremely lazy with gear. More people need to votekick others for gross negligence in gear. It's not that it's a bad idea, it's that they don't value the time and effort of others. When I had a tank alt I crafted all the BOE epics I could, full enchants, reforge, etc. before I even attempted Heroics as I didn't want to be a burden on a group. (Similar for my Rogue main)
Inspecting people would far too often show missing enchants, no gems or terrible green gems, all sta gems, lots of pvp gear, green quality equipment, etc.
It shows a lack of effort and lack of respect for your fellow players and I wouldn't stand for it. Why should we carry you while I do 3x more DPS on my Rogue? Or why should the run take way longer than it should because you are undergeared as a tank and/or have never done the boss before/researched it and never even ran it on normal mode or ask us what to do?
Carrying bad people just reinforces that as acceptable behavior.
But your time is just as worthless as mine. It's a friggen game. I'm all for vote kicking people who don't perform but kicking a tank or a dps or healer because they have gear on that will cause your heroic to be 5min longer is just as lazy and disrespectful.
I have seen the horrible players in some pvp gear. I have also seen the tank or healer or dps in full great pve gear be just as bad. I always prefer good players over the gear they are wearing. Nothing sucks more than a good healer in beginning gear getting shat on by a tank who facepulls entire packs breaking cc and the like which usually result in the healer getting bitched out.
I'm not talking "this guy is missing one gem or has one piece unenchanted!" "this guy has one piece of pvp gear!", I'm talking about gross negligence AKA "this guy hit L85 and didn't even bother getting most of the quest blues, didn't craft a single BOE epic, no enchants, gems, etc." kinda people. (Granted this was back in the first few months of Cata, I'm sure Blizz has provided a lot more easy loot since then)
If the person took the effort to properly gather equipment, enchant/gem it, etc. they are FAR more likely to not be a drag on the group. And bad tanks don't make the run 5mins longer, they can make the run 45mins longer and break up without completing it, longer.
Terribad Pug tanks in Stonecore *shudder*...
Well on my hunter I got a level 82 goblin warrior tank who insisted to pull the whole room up to the first boss then again up to the dragon. We went through 3 more healers in the room with the giant boss since he wanted to do the whole side of a room
After that he seemed to calm down but then it was kind of easy trash from that point on
i did not mind how casual Wrath became it was fun and freindly with a lot of hard core aspects but then I don't think blizzard really knew they were going to get a lot of casual gamers with WOW in the first place
I mean, I only kick afkers out now. But back in 4.1, it was anyone dpsing under the tank, anyone in pvp gear, anyone messing around. All of that shit made it harder for me as the healer. Now, it's easy mode, and I like that better.
I'm having more fun now, when shit is super easy, than I did back then, when everything was difficult (like the first two weeks or so of cata and I was undergeared).
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LOL nice. I will have to try that out.
Test 1 both unenchanted and both unreforged:
Replacing Hardened Obsidium Chest with Bloodied: 1.54% increase in mitigation pts 1.13 increase in survival pts points for pvp item.
Not a completely accurate test I know as the pvp chest has mastery but the tanky chest does have an extra secondary stat. Neither was reforged/changed. Reforging the hit on the green will decrease the difference a bit I guess but the point here is there is no loss in "mitigation" / "avoidance". As stated earlier the increased sta/str from the higher ilvl helped lessen the loss (of which there is no loss for this particular swap) because of the small amount of parry from the str and the mastery on this item.
Test 2:
Replacing a bloodied shoulder with 346 blue tanky Earthshape Pauldrons (tanky item is unreforged/changed but has mas/sta gem in it) .58% increase in miti points .07% decrease in surv points.
This test was the true show. According to Rawr. Who I trust has the numbers correctly. Replacing a 358 pvp crafted with res exp as its secondary has MINIMAL increase in mitigation points and survival points. This is without reforging the pvp item's expertise into mastery/parry/dodge. The 346 tanking shoulders have dodge/mastery on them if you were curious.
So can we dismiss this wives tale once and for all? If your smart about it using 358 pvp items in heroics will NOT cause significant hardships on the healer. In some cases it will actually benifit your gear. Heroics are mainly about execution anyways.
The issue was hitting 85 and buying a full set of bloodied gear to cheat the ilevel. Even better, some people were just buying gear and leaving it unused in their bags to inflate their ilevel. Healers, in particular, felt the burden of these tanks, because they're the ones who get blamed for the tank dying. So, no, we can't dismiss this "wives tale" because of the stigma it's placed on the game from the beginning of the xpac. Now, when I heal, I don't mind a pvp piece or two, but however you want to rationalize it, or say it's okay, it's still cheating the system. I personally wish that if you had a piece of gear with resilience on, that you couldn't gear for heroics, but that's just the other extreme.
I really wish they would just seperate pvp and pve completely, with skills working in different ways, so I don't have to have my 6 second interrupt go back to 15 seconds and now have to choose between interrupts and better totems/instant ghostwolf.
If you don't heal, you won't understand the backlash, it's that simple.
I would also agree with separating out PVP/PVE as PVP has caused many many PVE nerfs during the years.
Edit: I found a post on Tankspot. It didnt say what pvp gear he bought or to what extent he went with gemming and reforging but there was a guy who replaced his tank set with a full pvp set. He said in increased his armor by 600ish his health by 5kish and decreased his dodge/parry by 8%. http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?72974-Prot-Warrior-amp-PvP-Gear-(85-Heroics-Dungeons). It is cheating the system but this is heroics we are talking about.
Also, tanks that show up wearing a mix of pvp/tank/dps, quest greens/blues, no gems/enchants and expect to tank can go die in a fire.
If I had a dollar for every wipe because someone was stupid and lost a dollar for every wipe because someone had shitty gear, I'd have a lot of money, if you catch my drift. And you can't inspect stupid.
But on my alts, I have seen a ton of "tanks" in very nearly all PVP gear, and it is quite scary. They also tend to never have anything gemmed or enchanted. I also once saw a PVP-geared DK trying to tank dualwield. I could not quite believe it.
I think one of the problems with tanking is it was simplfied at the expense of death knights we all know how awful that was. Druids was a learned thing even though I never really played a bear I figured it out after sometime since there is a few differnces between cats and bears
I am curious about blizzcon because they are closing the Q&A to just the forums and Twitter leads me to more proof they are going to get boo'd at for the half ass mess they made.
Yeah, preselecting questions is probably necessary to eliminate all the questions about "Why does my tier set suck?" or "Are you really that sensitive about people wanting to transmog to earlier armor?"
When I started healing, I did the same thing. It's not fair to make me work harder because you can't get the right gear.
Now, with the season 10 being so much better than 346, yeah, it doesn't matter. Now I only kick pvp gear after a wipe, but I don't even inspect until we wipe, and honestly, my healing gear is so good I can pretty much keep up a straight dps tank if I wanted to.
That doesn't mean that I should have to.
Some people kick on principle. There's nothing wrong with that. But remember, pvp gear used to be shittier, and that's what most healers remember when they get into a queue now with a person too fucking lazy to get real gear, no matter if the pvp gear is equivalent to pve gear. For all you saints with your season 10 helm, shoulder, and weapon, there were 5 pvp dps/tanks (and healers, to an extent). the dps pulling 4k, the tanks chewing up healer mana, and the healers being literally out of mana every pull, but too lazy to buy water or drink.
What's wrong with putting in the time to get the gear the "right" way? I'm not even talking running normal 85s. I have 6 of them, and I only ever ran normals on the 1st one, because heroics were harder to heal back then. crafted 359/365 gear isn't that hard to get. fuck, if you're a tank, you can do the molten front and get 2 pieces of good 365 gear (neck/plate feet). Stop being lazy/cheap.
Hate to tell ya, but if you're not dying in PvP gear, it's most likely not you being really good, but the healer busting his ass.
I guess it's a difference in outlook. All I do is tank, and it's always my goal to be the best tank I can be. This includes getting the best gear for tanking that I can aquire, as opposed to someone who doesn't really care that much, and just wants to squeak by with the minimum required iLvl with as little effort as possible.
Spent half the night wiping on her, our best attempt was a heartbreaker that was sub 1 mil health (my bubble was down due to being caught out of position with the meteor being on the other side of the map when I was trying to kill a Burning Initiate, and the mage that was left blew iceblock but the dots that were up weren't enough).
I loved tanking in tbc and wrath it was the change in 4.0 that left me shaking my head and running back to arms on my warrior.
I really did not understand why people said it was the same as it was in Tbc with the changes they made to tanking. Because I tanked just fine as ARMS all you needed was some decent tank gear and a sheild
I did most of Kara in the recoloured valour set with my valour belt I wore from level 52 To 72
Oh I'm sure she is. It was just a bit of a shock for some people who were still having troubles with avoiding brushfires/not getting hit with tornadoes/etc.
EDIT: Realized I had said volcanoes instead of tornadoes
"Allow me to introduce you to this pile of money. We like to call it 'George' ".
We know they roll in it like pigs
Them show me how their calculations are wrong. I am not sure how you can abuse a mod that parses item stats based on a calculation. Prove to me it's dumb please. Lets get blunt here once they simplified stats the requirement for secondary stats diminished. Especially with re forging and removal of defense for tanks. It's not the same now than even wrath. My combined parry dodge on my raid heroic killing tank is about 25% off the top of my head. I actually reforge out of alot of secondary stats (dodge\parry) for mastery now.
Like I said I have first hand knowledge of using a few crafted pvp in dps and tanking to get into normal heroics. Contrary to popular belief I do know WTF I'm doing and I noticed no big problems. It was easier than my properly geared tank at release because heroics right now are a joke. I still remember on my Mage I queued up after grabbing and reforge several pvp crafted hearing people whine about my gear... Until I out performed all the rest of them.
It's the player. Not the gear. The rest of the posts are evident of that.
Edit: stupid autocorrect
It seems to be Blizzard saw the mod was popular and incorporated into the game as item level. I figured out what the enchanting miniums about why you could not put sunfire on a broom after this.
It's the feeling I have they got rid of a lot of things with tanking and simplifed it over how druid tanks were a mystery and death knights were awful for most people.
PvP gear does kind of muck up the spirit of this system though, because while PvP items have item levels comparative to ther PvE counterparts, they're not nearly as potent at the same jobs, and vice versa. It's not some insurmountable obstacle, but it definitely matters.
PVP gear is part of the overall problem in the game the other is forcing people to raid as it's far easier to get and pvp goes on at all hours compared to the fineite times raids start
It would have easier to put back in the weekly raid quest than do a LFR.
Inspecting people would far too often show missing enchants, no gems or terrible green gems, all sta gems, lots of pvp gear, green quality equipment, etc.
It shows a lack of effort and lack of respect for your fellow players and I wouldn't stand for it. Why should we carry you while I do 3x more DPS on my Rogue? Or why should the run take way longer than it should because you are undergeared as a tank and/or have never done the boss before/researched it and never even ran it on normal mode or ask us what to do?
Carrying bad people just reinforces that as acceptable behavior.
I think it's dumb they want you to do all of stonecore and grind to exalted on everyone of your characters for a shoulder enchant. I thought everyone hated the sons of H grind in wrath
Plus it gives them a whole new setting to play with and a new suite of characters to be corrupted by elder gods.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Whatever stats resilience eats up for dps, aren't needed anywhere near as much as the avoidance stats for tanks.
I'm not going to begrudge anyone with the odd bit of pvp gear if they're healing or tanking, but I healed a DK in full PvP kit (so that's ilevel 371?) in heroic SFK, and his health (160k+) yo yo'd. He later realised he was in his pvp kit, swapped to his pve kit and I didn't have to drink after every 2-3 pulls.
Basically this is what I've found:
It's their most "accessible game to date" they also said something about "most ambitious" -- READ: Casual and watered down as hell along the lines that WoW has been creeping for several years now. Most likely also cross-platform with consoles. Scifi genre is very unlikely, as that is always more niche than modern or fantasy genres. Based on some statements, theorized that it's most likely near-future Earth-type.
So my belief is it's at best going to be some "light scifi" near-future similar to a "COD online". Seeing as Activision by this point has fully corrupted Blizzard and hollowed it out into a shell of its former self -- Expect ultra-casual, lots of item shop whoring, watered down gameplay, social-media tie-ins or other stuff where you can interact with the game via the main client, smart phone, web apps, etc.
But your time is just as worthless as mine. It's a friggen game. I'm all for vote kicking people who don't perform but kicking a tank or a dps or healer because they have gear on that will cause your heroic to be 5min longer is just as lazy and disrespectful.
I have seen the horrible players in some pvp gear. I have also seen the tank or healer or dps in full great pve gear be just as bad. I always prefer good players over the gear they are wearing. Nothing sucks more than a good healer in beginning gear getting shat on by a tank who facepulls entire packs breaking cc and the like which usually result in the healer getting bitched out.
If the person took the effort to properly gather equipment, enchant/gem it, etc. they are FAR more likely to not be a drag on the group. And bad tanks don't make the run 5mins longer, they can make the run 45mins longer and break up without completing it, longer.
Terribad Pug tanks in Stonecore *shudder*...
After that he seemed to calm down but then it was kind of easy trash from that point on
i did not mind how casual Wrath became it was fun and freindly with a lot of hard core aspects but then I don't think blizzard really knew they were going to get a lot of casual gamers with WOW in the first place
I'm having more fun now, when shit is super easy, than I did back then, when everything was difficult (like the first two weeks or so of cata and I was undergeared).