No Carrie means no Claire Danes, though, and she's fucking awesome.
She's really not. Unless you are watching this spy thriller because you want to see a lunatic fret over her unborn terror baby, then she's aces.
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
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jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
That's what I was thinking when I watched it, nice to see it confirmed from someone with inside knowledge.
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
That's what I was thinking when I watched it, nice to see it confirmed from someone with inside knowledge.
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
ISn't DEATH TO AMERICA like how you order coffee in Tehran?
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jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
That's what I was thinking when I watched it, nice to see it confirmed from someone with inside knowledge.
I guess one reasonable defence could be that it wasn't a random or spontaneous crowd at all, but rather people put there by the regime and told to cheer. Which is definitely a thing in other totalitarian-y states.
But I was definitely thinking, hang on, Tehran is supposed to be secular and liberal, and judging from the green almost revolution not all that happy with the government. And also, wouldn't Al Qaeda being Sunnis kind of sour the relationship with Iran that the show says exist?
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
ISn't DEATH TO AMERICA like how you order coffee in Tehran?
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
That's what I was thinking when I watched it, nice to see it confirmed from someone with inside knowledge.
I guess one reasonable defence could be that it wasn't a random or spontaneous crowd at all, but rather people put there by the regime and told to cheer. Which is definitely a thing in other totalitarian-y states.
But I was definitely thinking, hang on, Tehran is supposed to be secular and liberal, and judging from the green almost revolution not all that happy with the government. And also, wouldn't Al Qaeda being Sunnis kind of sour the relationship with Iran that the show says exist?
But Brody hasn't been "vetted" by Akbari yet, so why would the government bus in fake supporters? Regular Iranians in public in Tehran tend to aggressively mind their own business.
And re: Al Qaeda being Sunni...yes. That Iran and Al Qaeda are best friends is a ridiculous misconception from the Bush era.
Hakkekage on
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jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
Well I mean that meeting was the vetting, he might have had the fake supporters on standby. A stretch, maybe.
HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
Just to be clear: I am enjoying the show and I am very glad things are picking up near the end of the season. I like being able to understand when they speak in Farsi (and note errors in translation when they show subtitles, which they don't always do).
But Tehran is not a Taliban-controlled outlying village in Pakistan and most people are not going to be so forward about supporting a terrorist even if he blew up the CIA (Iranians haaaaaaate the CIA)
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
ISn't DEATH TO AMERICA like how you order coffee in Tehran?
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
That's what I was thinking when I watched it, nice to see it confirmed from someone with inside knowledge.
I guess one reasonable defence could be that it wasn't a random or spontaneous crowd at all, but rather people put there by the regime and told to cheer. Which is definitely a thing in other totalitarian-y states.
But I was definitely thinking, hang on, Tehran is supposed to be secular and liberal, and judging from the green almost revolution not all that happy with the government. And also, wouldn't Al Qaeda being Sunnis kind of sour the relationship with Iran that the show says exist?
But Brody hasn't been "vetted" by Akbari yet, so why would the government bus in fake supporters? Regular Iranians in public in Tehran tend to aggressively mind their own business.
And re: Al Qaeda being Sunni...yes. That Iran and Al Qaeda are best friends is a ridiculous misconception from the Bush era.
We do not know what signal she gave to the handlers, how that crowd showed up, anything. They may have been in there for a couple hours for all we know. We also don't know the specifics of the neighborhood they were in, if the place was picked because it would generate good PR for them, etc.
It was a bit off putting that there were dozens of people all WOOO CIA BOMBER there, but it's not unreasonable to imagine the whole thing was crafted for the PR.
I never thought what we saw was the sentiment of the entire nation, but rather what the ministry that Brody was handed off to for cultivating an image wanted to project with him.
edit: the "al'queda guy" got a bullet in the brain from an Iranian almost immediately, so I don't think they are portraying the relationship between the two groups as sunshine and rainbows.
syndalis on
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
Well I mean that meeting was the vetting, he might have had the fake supporters on standby. A stretch, maybe.
A real stretch. I think it's easier to just say that the writers haven't done their research and just fell into easy Middle East tropes. And I've been really, really charitable to the writers this season (especially for the first half)
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
It's also possible this is a story arc they started writing when mahmoud Ahmadinejad was visibly running the show, and the political theater was broadly different than it is now.
Obama is also not the president, and we have not reached an accord with Iran on anything in the show verse.
Sometimes fiction is just fiction.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
ISn't DEATH TO AMERICA like how you order coffee in Tehran?
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
That's what I was thinking when I watched it, nice to see it confirmed from someone with inside knowledge.
I guess one reasonable defence could be that it wasn't a random or spontaneous crowd at all, but rather people put there by the regime and told to cheer. Which is definitely a thing in other totalitarian-y states.
But I was definitely thinking, hang on, Tehran is supposed to be secular and liberal, and judging from the green almost revolution not all that happy with the government. And also, wouldn't Al Qaeda being Sunnis kind of sour the relationship with Iran that the show says exist?
But Brody hasn't been "vetted" by Akbari yet, so why would the government bus in fake supporters? Regular Iranians in public in Tehran tend to aggressively mind their own business.
And re: Al Qaeda being Sunni...yes. That Iran and Al Qaeda are best friends is a ridiculous misconception from the Bush era.
We do not know what signal she gave to the handlers, how that crowd showed up, anything. They may have been in there for a couple hours for all we know. We also don't know the specifics of the neighborhood they were in, if the place was picked because it would generate good PR for them, etc.
It was a bit off putting that there were dozens of people all WOOO CIA BOMBER there, but it's not unreasonable to imagine the whole thing was crafted for the PR.
I never thought what we saw was the sentiment of the entire nation, but rather what the ministry that Brody was handed off to for cultivating an image wanted to project with him.
edit: the "al'queda guy" got a bullet in the brain from an Iranian almost immediately, so I don't think they are portraying the relationship between the two groups as sunshine and rainbows.
Although according to the show's storylines Javadi used Nazir to bomb the CIA.
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
You know as well as I do that this is a poor defense from critique.
The show should still be open to criticism when it is promulgating a harmful stereotype about Iran, especially when it strives for realism (the bureaucratic fuckups of the CIA on full display, the care taken with languages, etc...). You can argue that the show has been distinctly lacking on the realism front lately, but mostly as far as plot contrivances go; the desire to represent a realistic setting is still in force. And even when Ahmedinejad was President, Tehran would not have had roving bands of terror-happy citizens on hand to praise a worldwide fugitive like Brody. It would be like Russians mobbing Edward Snowden to kiss his feet for embarrassing the US.
It's a lazy trope with lazy writing.
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
ISn't DEATH TO AMERICA like how you order coffee in Tehran?
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
That's what I was thinking when I watched it, nice to see it confirmed from someone with inside knowledge.
I guess one reasonable defence could be that it wasn't a random or spontaneous crowd at all, but rather people put there by the regime and told to cheer. Which is definitely a thing in other totalitarian-y states.
But I was definitely thinking, hang on, Tehran is supposed to be secular and liberal, and judging from the green almost revolution not all that happy with the government. And also, wouldn't Al Qaeda being Sunnis kind of sour the relationship with Iran that the show says exist?
But Brody hasn't been "vetted" by Akbari yet, so why would the government bus in fake supporters? Regular Iranians in public in Tehran tend to aggressively mind their own business.
And re: Al Qaeda being Sunni...yes. That Iran and Al Qaeda are best friends is a ridiculous misconception from the Bush era.
We do not know what signal she gave to the handlers, how that crowd showed up, anything. They may have been in there for a couple hours for all we know. We also don't know the specifics of the neighborhood they were in, if the place was picked because it would generate good PR for them, etc.
It was a bit off putting that there were dozens of people all WOOO CIA BOMBER there, but it's not unreasonable to imagine the whole thing was crafted for the PR.
I never thought what we saw was the sentiment of the entire nation, but rather what the ministry that Brody was handed off to for cultivating an image wanted to project with him.
edit: the "al'queda guy" got a bullet in the brain from an Iranian almost immediately, so I don't think they are portraying the relationship between the two groups as sunshine and rainbows.
Although according to the show's storylines Javadi used Nazir to bomb the CIA.
I thought we didn't know who Javadi used? Nazir was dead at the time of the CIA bombing, unless it was plotted out beforehand.
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
ISn't DEATH TO AMERICA like how you order coffee in Tehran?
I just want to chime it that is is goddamn ridiculous that
a crowd of Iranian bystanders in Tehran would be all WOO THIS GUY BOMB CIA WOO BRODY CHEER CHEER DEATH TO AMERICA WARRIOR OF ISLAM just spontaneously in the middle of the street
That's what I was thinking when I watched it, nice to see it confirmed from someone with inside knowledge.
I guess one reasonable defence could be that it wasn't a random or spontaneous crowd at all, but rather people put there by the regime and told to cheer. Which is definitely a thing in other totalitarian-y states.
But I was definitely thinking, hang on, Tehran is supposed to be secular and liberal, and judging from the green almost revolution not all that happy with the government. And also, wouldn't Al Qaeda being Sunnis kind of sour the relationship with Iran that the show says exist?
But Brody hasn't been "vetted" by Akbari yet, so why would the government bus in fake supporters? Regular Iranians in public in Tehran tend to aggressively mind their own business.
And re: Al Qaeda being Sunni...yes. That Iran and Al Qaeda are best friends is a ridiculous misconception from the Bush era.
We do not know what signal she gave to the handlers, how that crowd showed up, anything. They may have been in there for a couple hours for all we know. We also don't know the specifics of the neighborhood they were in, if the place was picked because it would generate good PR for them, etc.
It was a bit off putting that there were dozens of people all WOOO CIA BOMBER there, but it's not unreasonable to imagine the whole thing was crafted for the PR.
I never thought what we saw was the sentiment of the entire nation, but rather what the ministry that Brody was handed off to for cultivating an image wanted to project with him.
edit: the "al'queda guy" got a bullet in the brain from an Iranian almost immediately, so I don't think they are portraying the relationship between the two groups as sunshine and rainbows.
Although according to the show's storylines Javadi used Nazir to bomb the CIA.
I thought we didn't know who Javadi used? Nazir was dead at the time of the CIA bombing, unless it was plotted out beforehand.
Maybe they're planning a twist but Javadi directly said it was one of Nazir's guys who moved the car
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
You know as well as I do that this is a poor defense from critique.
The show should still be open to criticism when it is promulgating a harmful stereotype about Iran, especially when it strives for realism (the bureaucratic fuckups of the CIA on full display, the care taken with languages, etc...). You can argue that the show has been distinctly lacking on the realism front lately, but mostly as far as plot contrivances go; the desire to represent a realistic setting is still in force. And even when Ahmedinejad was President, Tehran would not have had roving bands of terror-happy citizens on hand to praise a worldwide fugitive like Brody. It would be like Russians mobbing Edward Snowden to kiss his feet for embarrassing the US.
It's a lazy trope with lazy writing.
I'll give that bad fiction doesn't excuse promoting bad stereotypes, and I will admit ignorance on how they are portraying people being poor or not (though tbh the Iranian / Persian people I do know that grew up in America all do seem to have these weird loyal relationships with their families who are not always very kind to them in turn... and I know a few in this exact same boat of awful).
But I do not feel like the plot they are driving is entirely unreasonable from a worldview of just a few years ago (when this particular plot-ball was kicked into motion).
I don't think anyone expected us to be at the table like we are with Iran or making the kind of amazing progress that we are making diplomatically... in fact, I bet most of this footage was in the can well before the kind of progress we have seen has come to pass.
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
You know as well as I do that this is a poor defense from critique.
The show should still be open to criticism when it is promulgating a harmful stereotype about Iran, especially when it strives for realism (the bureaucratic fuckups of the CIA on full display, the care taken with languages, etc...). You can argue that the show has been distinctly lacking on the realism front lately, but mostly as far as plot contrivances go; the desire to represent a realistic setting is still in force. And even when Ahmedinejad was President, Tehran would not have had roving bands of terror-happy citizens on hand to praise a worldwide fugitive like Brody. It would be like Russians mobbing Edward Snowden to kiss his feet for embarrassing the US.
It's a lazy trope with lazy writing.
I'll give that bad fiction doesn't excuse promoting bad stereotypes, and I will admit ignorance on how they are portraying people being poor or not (though tbh the Iranian / Persian people I do know that grew up in America all do seem to have these weird loyal relationships with their families who are not always very kind to them in turn... and I know a few in this exact same boat of awful).
But I do not feel like the plot they are driving is entirely unreasonable from a worldview of just a few years ago (when this particular plot-ball was kicked into motion).
I don't think anyone expected us to be at the table like we are with Iran or making the kind of amazing progress that we are making diplomatically... in fact, I bet most of this footage was in the can well before the kind of progress we have seen has come to pass.
Again, the plot contrivances I won't get into as realistic--covert CIA regime change in Iran was far fetched even in the lead up to the Iraq war, because the CIA has failed and failed again at that little gem. I'm not disputing the premise of the season in light of current events in real life. I'm even going to operate on the assumption that in Homeland, Iran's economy is not suffering under crippling economic sanctions, and that the Green Revolution never have appened.
But the presentation still relies on tired, generalized Middle East stereotypes to communicate the idea that Iran is the same unsophisticated enemy bent on US destruction as Abu Nazir, and the same enemy that we had in 1979, which was an outdated notion even outdated in 2003. While they try to inject a tiny bit of nuance with Fara's character, the depiction of Iranians as spontaneous fanatics in Tehran was just plain lazy and has nothing to do with where we are diplomatically.
This also feeds into my annoyance with how Saul suddenly became both omniscient, pulling off this ridiculous long game, and yet fiercely (and briefly) anti-Muslim this season with his BS about Fara's headscarf and saying that the entire state of Iran is the next big threat after Abu Nazir (a clear, stateless Bin Laden stand in). What happened to intense yet wise and solid Saul from seasons past? It seemed so out of character, even for a man under pressure after the attack on the CIA. I get that this season is showing the major rifts between him and Carrie widen, but these are just moments of narrative reductiveness to inject emotional drama without doing much to earn it.
AND ONE MORE THING
you call it a roosari in Iran not a hijab what are you ARAB??
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Well, Saul of season 1 and 2 hadn't had his teeth kicked in, a bunch of his colleagues murdered and his post being taken away from him by some shitstain who doesn't understand intelligence.
So yeah, Saul is acting from a fairly irrational place at times, which is understandable. I think the mountain of shit he has had to deal with has ruined the wise man we enjoyed watching in prior seasons.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Soooo....
I can't believe they had the balls to do it.
Are they planning another season? I honestly can't see how.
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Are they planning another season? I honestly can't see how.
Well
Brody was all but entirely absent from this season anyways, and they did well enough with it.
Though I'm guessing this means the end of Brody's family on the show. I can't really see the writers keeping any of them around going into season four.
Also, the fact that this show has Tracey Letts is fucking awesome.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I immediately googled 'homeland season 4' and found an article from the last 24 hours about morena baccarin's character having less of a role next season
so looks like there is another season and that it's mostly the end of his family on the show.
also I gotta agree with syndalis mainly on the 'sometimes fiction is just fiction' thing. If I came away from the events in any show with a different view on an entire country or, really, any actual people, that'd be on me, not the show.
I immediately googled 'homeland season 4' and found an article from the last 24 hours about morena baccarin's character having less of a role next season
so looks like there is another season and that it's mostly the end of his family on the show.
also I gotta agree with syndalis mainly on the 'sometimes fiction is just fiction' thing. If I came away from the events in any show with a different view on an entire country or, really, any actual people, that'd be on me, not the show.
No Carrie means no Claire Danes, though, and she's fucking awesome.
She's really not. Unless you are watching this spy thriller because you want to see a lunatic fret over her unborn terror baby, then she's aces.
you are crazy
No, you. Claire Danes is like A-1 sauce on Cheerios in this show. I love A-1, but she's out of place here. The character belongs in a better show about mental illness.
I'm not convinced Brody is dead. Basically, the way they showed his hanging, his legs wouldn't have been held apart if he was actually dead. This could just be the show screwing up production since it was my doctor parents who noticed it....but I'm thinking that Brody didn't look conclusively dead enough. He was hung by the neck till "dead", not kicked off the gallows with his neck snapped.
I would not be surprised if it turns out he's alive in season 4 at some point.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I'm not convinced Brody is dead. Basically, the way they showed his hanging, his legs wouldn't have been held apart if he was actually dead. This could just be the show screwing up production since it was my doctor parents who noticed it....but I'm thinking that Brody didn't look conclusively dead enough. He was hung by the neck till "dead", not kicked off the gallows with his neck snapped.
I would not be surprised if it turns out he's alive in season 4 at some point.
But how?!
It's not like the angry, vengeful mob was walking away when Carrie left; I mean, the widow was standing there watching him die, I don't think she will be happy if they take him down and resuscitate him.
There is no angle in which Dara Dahl, Javadi and Lockhart would risk so much to pull off some kind of crazy illusion in front of the angry people of Iran; too much risk and for them literally NOTHING to gain.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I'm not convinced Brody is dead. Basically, the way they showed his hanging, his legs wouldn't have been held apart if he was actually dead. This could just be the show screwing up production since it was my doctor parents who noticed it....but I'm thinking that Brody didn't look conclusively dead enough. He was hung by the neck till "dead", not kicked off the gallows with his neck snapped.
I would not be surprised if it turns out he's alive in season 4 at some point.
But how?!
It's not like the angry, vengeful mob was walking away when Carrie left; I mean, the widow was standing there watching him die, I don't think she will be happy if they take him down and resuscitate him.
There is no angle in which Dara Dahl, Javadi and Lockhart would risk so much to pull off some kind of crazy illusion in front of the angry people of Iran; too much risk and for them literally NOTHING to gain.
If they cut him down after about a minute or two, dragged him out of sight and intubated + dealt with the crushed carotids, he could still be saved with movie-magic levels of not brain damage.
Basically by TV standards he didn't seem suitably dead, and I think you could argue Javadi might have arranged to not have him killed, on the idea that it's good leverage against the CIA agent who doubled him.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I'm not convinced Brody is dead. Basically, the way they showed his hanging, his legs wouldn't have been held apart if he was actually dead. This could just be the show screwing up production since it was my doctor parents who noticed it....but I'm thinking that Brody didn't look conclusively dead enough. He was hung by the neck till "dead", not kicked off the gallows with his neck snapped.
I would not be surprised if it turns out he's alive in season 4 at some point.
But how?!
It's not like the angry, vengeful mob was walking away when Carrie left; I mean, the widow was standing there watching him die, I don't think she will be happy if they take him down and resuscitate him.
There is no angle in which Dara Dahl, Javadi and Lockhart would risk so much to pull off some kind of crazy illusion in front of the angry people of Iran; too much risk and for them literally NOTHING to gain.
If they cut him down after about a minute or two, dragged him out of sight and intubated + dealt with the crushed carotids, he could still be saved with movie-magic levels of not brain damage.
Basically by TV standards he didn't seem suitably dead, and I think you could argue Javadi might have arranged to not have him killed, on the idea that it's good leverage against the CIA agent who doubled him.
The only person at the CIA who would care if he lives or dies is Carrie.
Meanwhile, him being alive is a MASSIVE liability for Javadi, who's rise to power is predicated on the fact that this guy was an assassin in a plot he was a player in. Javadi wants him dead more than anyone and has the least reason to keep him alive.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I'm not convinced Brody is dead. Basically, the way they showed his hanging, his legs wouldn't have been held apart if he was actually dead. This could just be the show screwing up production since it was my doctor parents who noticed it....but I'm thinking that Brody didn't look conclusively dead enough. He was hung by the neck till "dead", not kicked off the gallows with his neck snapped.
I would not be surprised if it turns out he's alive in season 4 at some point.
The harness they had him in must have been strapped to his legs, thus the wide stance. Like this,
I'm not convinced Brody is dead. Basically, the way they showed his hanging, his legs wouldn't have been held apart if he was actually dead. This could just be the show screwing up production since it was my doctor parents who noticed it....but I'm thinking that Brody didn't look conclusively dead enough. He was hung by the neck till "dead", not kicked off the gallows with his neck snapped.
I would not be surprised if it turns out he's alive in season 4 at some point.
But how?!
It's not like the angry, vengeful mob was walking away when Carrie left; I mean, the widow was standing there watching him die, I don't think she will be happy if they take him down and resuscitate him.
There is no angle in which Dara Dahl, Javadi and Lockhart would risk so much to pull off some kind of crazy illusion in front of the angry people of Iran; too much risk and for them literally NOTHING to gain.
If they cut him down after about a minute or two, dragged him out of sight and intubated + dealt with the crushed carotids, he could still be saved with movie-magic levels of not brain damage.
Basically by TV standards he didn't seem suitably dead, and I think you could argue Javadi might have arranged to not have him killed, on the idea that it's good leverage against the CIA agent who doubled him.
Alex Gansa is giving post-finale interviews where he's flat-out saying/confirming he's dead. Granted, it's possible he's lying, but given how he's also saying in these interviews that there's nothing left to tell with Brody and "the character's shelf life had expired" (direct quote), it seems like it's over.
The mob cheering Brodi was silly, unless the authorities in the area were behind it and encouraging it beforehand
But it's obviously the writers fucking up because they would have let us in on that. There's no element of anything like that and even if the people in the area are ultra conservative Sunnis (which again wouldn't be unreasonable because that's where they stuck Nazir's wife) it would have still required coordination. Unless they knew what was about to happen it's silly, the only way I see that working is if it was either staged or if word was out Brody would be coming out way ahead of time. I mean he would undoubtedly be seen as a hero by some people, even in the United States, as far as terrorist targets on American soil go the CIA is about as sympathetic as you can get these days
Being spontaneous is nonsense, people in Iran are just as apathetic about politics as everywhere else, the majority of people would just walk past maybe snapping a picture with their phone but that's it - especially with the revolutionary guard mucking about. Who the fuck would want to crowd around a bunch of black SUVs guarded by revolutionary guard? The whole scene was ominous as fuck but a crowd decided to spontaneously form there
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jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
Having a bunch of Sunnis in Tehran would be pretty weird, given that Iran is majority Shia, and not, I think very tolerant at all of Sunnis.
The mob cheering Brodi was silly, unless the authorities in the area were behind it and encouraging it beforehand
But it's obviously the writers fucking up because they would have let us in on that. There's no element of anything like that and even if the people in the area are ultra conservative Sunnis (which again wouldn't be unreasonable because that's where they stuck Nazir's wife) it would have still required coordination. Unless they knew what was about to happen it's silly, the only way I see that working is if it was either staged or if word was out Brody would be coming out way ahead of time. I mean he would undoubtedly be seen as a hero by some people, even in the United States, as far as terrorist targets on American soil go the CIA is about as sympathetic as you can get these days
Being spontaneous is nonsense, people in Iran are just as apathetic about politics as everywhere else, the majority of people would just walk past maybe snapping a picture with their phone but that's it - especially with the revolutionary guard mucking about. Who the fuck would want to crowd around a bunch of black SUVs guarded by revolutionary guard? The whole scene was ominous as fuck but a crowd decided to spontaneously form there
They did openly say in the following scene that the ministry that handle PR for the country has taken over for him. It's a small reach to assume they had this guy involved as soon as they were willing to vet him via Nazir's wife, and had a plan ready if she gave the goahead.
Sympathetic neighborhood and a few dozen paid shills (who already kind of believe this stuff anyways) could easily be corralled anywhere, especially by a government who wants to make some solid propaganda.
I mean, we did get government sponsored GWB effigies with lots of people "attacking" them with footwear and whatnot for show. It does not have to be the sentiment of the entire nation to happen...
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Having a bunch of Sunnis in Tehran would be pretty weird, given that Iran is majority Shia, and not, I think very tolerant at all of Sunnis.
Apart from that, yes I agree.
Yes but there are Sunni neighborhoods are there not? But we're not told this is one so that would be, again, pure speculation to try and justify what we saw
I'll just stick with a screwup
Edit: a quick googling shows there are thousands of Sunnis in Tehran, but them forming an uncoordinated demonstration is about 0% likely
Carrie being with him when he got caught. Obviously Javadi told his guys to just let her go. They're grunts but those are now grunts with a hell of a lot of suspicions about WTF a white woman is doing with a enemy of the state in the middle of nowhere. Then they get told to pretend like she was never there. Seems like that'd probably blow Javadi's cover at some point.
Also they never real acknowledged that it was definitely get on of Iran that Brody aka the US's most wanted terrorist turns up in Tehran and assassinates a head of state. The conspiracy nuts heads must have exploded
Other than that I kinda wish they left the series here it's a suitable finisher. Doing another season begs the question where do they go? Start anew?
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jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
edited December 2013
I'm going with staged mob too, but I feel they could have made it a bit clearer if that was indeed what they intended to show.
Done the way it was, it's very easy to interpret it as them just harping on the old 'all Muslims are blood-thirsty savages' stereotype. Especially since the whole season is already predicated on the factually incorrect idea that Al Qaeda and Iran are best buddies because wat r sectarian differences.
Edit: a quick googling shows there are thousands of Sunnis in Tehran, but them forming an uncoordinated demonstration is about 0% likely
Huh, the more you know. Thousands still isn't that impressive in a city of 8 million people though.
Carrie being with him when he got caught. Obviously Javadi told his guys to just let her go. They're grunts but those are now grunts with a hell of a lot of suspicions about WTF a white woman is doing with a enemy of the state in the middle of nowhere. Then they get told to pretend like she was never there. Seems like that'd probably blow Javadi's cover at some point.
Also they never real acknowledged that it was definitely get on of Iran that Brody aka the US's most wanted terrorist turns up in Tehran and assassinates a head of state. The conspiracy nuts heads must have exploded
Other than that I kinda wish they left the series here it's a suitable finisher. Doing another season begs the question where do they go? Start anew?
I think that
If Carrie leaves the kid with her father / sister, and goes off to her new post, we have the opportunity to see her being a CIA agent; one of the best in her field supposedly, and working on a new case.
The opening scene of the first episode was harrowing and well done, and seeing her go to that level would be great.
But whatever they decide to do, it's going to be a different show. Half the cast is gone in one episode. Brody's family is pointless now, and Saul going private sector along with the distance she kept from him after Tehran leads me to think he will not be a part of Carrie's life much at all any more.
I have hopes, but not high ones. There is a way to move forward with this cast, but it won't be easy.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Carrie being with him when he got caught. Obviously Javadi told his guys to just let her go. They're grunts but those are now grunts with a hell of a lot of suspicions about WTF a white woman is doing with a enemy of the state in the middle of nowhere. Then they get told to pretend like she was never there. Seems like that'd probably blow Javadi's cover at some point.
Also they never real acknowledged that it was definitely get on of Iran that Brody aka the US's most wanted terrorist turns up in Tehran and assassinates a head of state. The conspiracy nuts heads must have exploded
Other than that I kinda wish they left the series here it's a suitable finisher. Doing another season begs the question where do they go? Start anew?
Keep in mind that
Their cover has been that Javadi turned Carrie and not the other way around. Remember the beginning of the season. So those guys probably see her as an asset.
Posts
She's really not. Unless you are watching this spy thriller because you want to see a lunatic fret over her unborn terror baby, then she's aces.
NNID: Hakkekage
That's what I was thinking when I watched it, nice to see it confirmed from someone with inside knowledge.
This is a p good article about it: http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2013/12/homeland-season-3-iran-critique
NNID: Hakkekage
ISn't DEATH TO AMERICA like how you order coffee in Tehran?
I guess one reasonable defence could be that it wasn't a random or spontaneous crowd at all, but rather people put there by the regime and told to cheer. Which is definitely a thing in other totalitarian-y states.
But I was definitely thinking, hang on, Tehran is supposed to be secular and liberal, and judging from the green almost revolution not all that happy with the government. And also, wouldn't Al Qaeda being Sunnis kind of sour the relationship with Iran that the show says exist?
First cream and sugar, then DEATH TO AMERICA
But Brody hasn't been "vetted" by Akbari yet, so why would the government bus in fake supporters? Regular Iranians in public in Tehran tend to aggressively mind their own business.
And re: Al Qaeda being Sunni...yes. That Iran and Al Qaeda are best friends is a ridiculous misconception from the Bush era.
NNID: Hakkekage
But Tehran is not a Taliban-controlled outlying village in Pakistan and most people are not going to be so forward about supporting a terrorist even if he blew up the CIA (Iranians haaaaaaate the CIA)
NNID: Hakkekage
We do not know what signal she gave to the handlers, how that crowd showed up, anything. They may have been in there for a couple hours for all we know. We also don't know the specifics of the neighborhood they were in, if the place was picked because it would generate good PR for them, etc.
It was a bit off putting that there were dozens of people all WOOO CIA BOMBER there, but it's not unreasonable to imagine the whole thing was crafted for the PR.
I never thought what we saw was the sentiment of the entire nation, but rather what the ministry that Brody was handed off to for cultivating an image wanted to project with him.
edit: the "al'queda guy" got a bullet in the brain from an Iranian almost immediately, so I don't think they are portraying the relationship between the two groups as sunshine and rainbows.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
A real stretch. I think it's easier to just say that the writers haven't done their research and just fell into easy Middle East tropes. And I've been really, really charitable to the writers this season (especially for the first half)
NNID: Hakkekage
Obama is also not the president, and we have not reached an accord with Iran on anything in the show verse.
Sometimes fiction is just fiction.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Although according to the show's storylines Javadi used Nazir to bomb the CIA.
You know as well as I do that this is a poor defense from critique.
The show should still be open to criticism when it is promulgating a harmful stereotype about Iran, especially when it strives for realism (the bureaucratic fuckups of the CIA on full display, the care taken with languages, etc...). You can argue that the show has been distinctly lacking on the realism front lately, but mostly as far as plot contrivances go; the desire to represent a realistic setting is still in force. And even when Ahmedinejad was President, Tehran would not have had roving bands of terror-happy citizens on hand to praise a worldwide fugitive like Brody. It would be like Russians mobbing Edward Snowden to kiss his feet for embarrassing the US.
It's a lazy trope with lazy writing.
NNID: Hakkekage
NNID: Hakkekage
I'll give that bad fiction doesn't excuse promoting bad stereotypes, and I will admit ignorance on how they are portraying people being poor or not (though tbh the Iranian / Persian people I do know that grew up in America all do seem to have these weird loyal relationships with their families who are not always very kind to them in turn... and I know a few in this exact same boat of awful).
But I do not feel like the plot they are driving is entirely unreasonable from a worldview of just a few years ago (when this particular plot-ball was kicked into motion).
I don't think anyone expected us to be at the table like we are with Iran or making the kind of amazing progress that we are making diplomatically... in fact, I bet most of this footage was in the can well before the kind of progress we have seen has come to pass.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Again, the plot contrivances I won't get into as realistic--covert CIA regime change in Iran was far fetched even in the lead up to the Iraq war, because the CIA has failed and failed again at that little gem. I'm not disputing the premise of the season in light of current events in real life. I'm even going to operate on the assumption that in Homeland, Iran's economy is not suffering under crippling economic sanctions, and that the Green Revolution never have appened.
But the presentation still relies on tired, generalized Middle East stereotypes to communicate the idea that Iran is the same unsophisticated enemy bent on US destruction as Abu Nazir, and the same enemy that we had in 1979, which was an outdated notion even outdated in 2003. While they try to inject a tiny bit of nuance with Fara's character, the depiction of Iranians as spontaneous fanatics in Tehran was just plain lazy and has nothing to do with where we are diplomatically.
This also feeds into my annoyance with how Saul suddenly became both omniscient, pulling off this ridiculous long game, and yet fiercely (and briefly) anti-Muslim this season with his BS about Fara's headscarf and saying that the entire state of Iran is the next big threat after Abu Nazir (a clear, stateless Bin Laden stand in). What happened to intense yet wise and solid Saul from seasons past? It seemed so out of character, even for a man under pressure after the attack on the CIA. I get that this season is showing the major rifts between him and Carrie widen, but these are just moments of narrative reductiveness to inject emotional drama without doing much to earn it.
AND ONE MORE THING
NNID: Hakkekage
So yeah, Saul is acting from a fairly irrational place at times, which is understandable. I think the mountain of shit he has had to deal with has ruined the wise man we enjoyed watching in prior seasons.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Are they planning another season? I honestly can't see how.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Well
Though I'm guessing this means the end of Brody's family on the show. I can't really see the writers keeping any of them around going into season four.
Also, the fact that this show has Tracey Letts is fucking awesome.
so looks like there is another season and that it's mostly the end of his family on the show.
also I gotta agree with syndalis mainly on the 'sometimes fiction is just fiction' thing. If I came away from the events in any show with a different view on an entire country or, really, any actual people, that'd be on me, not the show.
you are crazy
No, you. Claire Danes is like A-1 sauce on Cheerios in this show. I love A-1, but she's out of place here. The character belongs in a better show about mental illness.
I would not be surprised if it turns out he's alive in season 4 at some point.
It's not like the angry, vengeful mob was walking away when Carrie left; I mean, the widow was standing there watching him die, I don't think she will be happy if they take him down and resuscitate him.
There is no angle in which Dara Dahl, Javadi and Lockhart would risk so much to pull off some kind of crazy illusion in front of the angry people of Iran; too much risk and for them literally NOTHING to gain.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Basically by TV standards he didn't seem suitably dead, and I think you could argue Javadi might have arranged to not have him killed, on the idea that it's good leverage against the CIA agent who doubled him.
Meanwhile, him being alive is a MASSIVE liability for Javadi, who's rise to power is predicated on the fact that this guy was an assassin in a plot he was a player in. Javadi wants him dead more than anyone and has the least reason to keep him alive.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
But it's obviously the writers fucking up because they would have let us in on that. There's no element of anything like that and even if the people in the area are ultra conservative Sunnis (which again wouldn't be unreasonable because that's where they stuck Nazir's wife) it would have still required coordination. Unless they knew what was about to happen it's silly, the only way I see that working is if it was either staged or if word was out Brody would be coming out way ahead of time. I mean he would undoubtedly be seen as a hero by some people, even in the United States, as far as terrorist targets on American soil go the CIA is about as sympathetic as you can get these days
Being spontaneous is nonsense, people in Iran are just as apathetic about politics as everywhere else, the majority of people would just walk past maybe snapping a picture with their phone but that's it - especially with the revolutionary guard mucking about. Who the fuck would want to crowd around a bunch of black SUVs guarded by revolutionary guard? The whole scene was ominous as fuck but a crowd decided to spontaneously form there
Apart from that, yes I agree.
Sympathetic neighborhood and a few dozen paid shills (who already kind of believe this stuff anyways) could easily be corralled anywhere, especially by a government who wants to make some solid propaganda.
I mean, we did get government sponsored GWB effigies with lots of people "attacking" them with footwear and whatnot for show. It does not have to be the sentiment of the entire nation to happen...
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Yes but there are Sunni neighborhoods are there not? But we're not told this is one so that would be, again, pure speculation to try and justify what we saw
I'll just stick with a screwup
Edit: a quick googling shows there are thousands of Sunnis in Tehran, but them forming an uncoordinated demonstration is about 0% likely
Also they never real acknowledged that it was definitely get on of Iran that Brody aka the US's most wanted terrorist turns up in Tehran and assassinates a head of state. The conspiracy nuts heads must have exploded
Other than that I kinda wish they left the series here it's a suitable finisher. Doing another season begs the question where do they go? Start anew?
Done the way it was, it's very easy to interpret it as them just harping on the old 'all Muslims are blood-thirsty savages' stereotype. Especially since the whole season is already predicated on the factually incorrect idea that Al Qaeda and Iran are best buddies because wat r sectarian differences.
Huh, the more you know. Thousands still isn't that impressive in a city of 8 million people though.
I think that
The opening scene of the first episode was harrowing and well done, and seeing her go to that level would be great.
But whatever they decide to do, it's going to be a different show. Half the cast is gone in one episode. Brody's family is pointless now, and Saul going private sector along with the distance she kept from him after Tehran leads me to think he will not be a part of Carrie's life much at all any more.
I have hopes, but not high ones. There is a way to move forward with this cast, but it won't be easy.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...