[Sandusky Sex Abuse] 60mil fine for Penn St, 4 year post season ban

Magus`

We're.. not.. disagreeing with you? We're also pointing out it's dumb?

Edith_Bagot-Dix

While Paterno has clearly done wrong, next to Sandusky he looks like the Pope.

King Riptor

Oh. Sorry I'm apparently unable to read today.

KalTorak

Edith_Bagot-Dix wrote:

While Paterno has clearly done wrong, next to Sandusky he looks like the Pope.

Maybe not the best simile

...actually, maybe it is the best simile.

Beltaine

I really hope all those Penn St students who were so adamantly backing Paterno a few days ago are feeling guilty now.

Modern Man

I think Paterno's biggest failing is that he simply didn't want to deal with such a disturbing crime. For an older guy like that, dealing with allegations of homosexual pedophilia is hugely outside of his comfort zone. As I understand it, Paterno reported what McQueary told him to the campus police and higher-ups at Penn State.

He could have done more to follow up, certainly. But, he didn't witness the crime and all he had to go on was a second-hand report from McQueary.

NargorothRiP

for fucks sake modern man any any one else using the term "second hand" to refer to a prime witness of an event, please just stop.

Modern Man

What I mean is that Paterno didn't see anything himself. All he had to go on was what someone else told him.

Magus`

I partially feel for Paterno. I mean, I still think he should've been fired for not doing more but it sounds like he panicked to me. I bet he wishes he had done more now, though.

darleysam

Modern Man wrote:

What I mean is that Paterno didn't see anything himself. All he had to go on was what someone else told him.

At what point in the process of a guy coming in to tell you that he just walked in on someone else raping a child, do you go "Oh that Mike, he's such a card!"

Magus`

darleysam wrote:

Modern Man wrote:

What I mean is that Paterno didn't see anything himself. All he had to go on was what someone else told him.

At what point in the process of a guy coming in to tell you that he just walked in on someone else raping a child, do you go "Oh that Mike, he's such a card!"

Specifically a queen, it seems.

Modern Man

darleysam wrote:

Modern Man wrote:

What I mean is that Paterno didn't see anything himself. All he had to go on was what someone else told him.

At what point in the process of a guy coming in to tell you that he just walked in on someone else raping a child, do you go "Oh that Mike, he's such a card!"

But that's not what Paterno did. He reported the incident to campus police and school administration. As someone who didn't witness the incident in question, there's not much more he could do.

Magus`

Could've told the actual police!

NailbunnyPD

Beltaine wrote:

I really hope all those Penn St students who were so adamantly backing Paterno a few days ago are feeling guilty now.

They are still drunk. Maybe in late December it will catch up with them.

AngelHedgie

Modern Man wrote:

darleysam wrote:

Modern Man wrote:

What I mean is that Paterno didn't see anything himself. All he had to go on was what someone else told him.

At what point in the process of a guy coming in to tell you that he just walked in on someone else raping a child, do you go "Oh that Mike, he's such a card!"

But that's not what Paterno did. He reported the incident to campus police and school administration. As someone meone who didn't witness the incident in question, there's not much more he could do.

Then frankly, you have no concept of who JoePa was. The man was one of (if not the) most powerful individuals in Happy Valley. He could have, with a single word, made sure that Sandusky never stepped foot on the Penn State campus again.

Preacher

Paterno at no point neither did Mcquery ever talk to the campus police (who are an actual police force and not like second tier mall cops). There is no evidence either did. Claiming that going to Schutlz is the same thing is a cop out bullshit excuse. Schultz just oversaw the funding of the police, going to him would be like going to your city councilman or mayor instead of the actual police.

Also everyone is giving Paterno a real benefit of the doubt that he somehow knew sandusky for 30+ years and was never aware of his innapropriate relationship with children prior to 2002, yet Sandusky suddenly retires in 98-99 and we're supposed to believe that Paterno the top of the football program is unaware of the reason? And also completely unaware why Sandusky who is credited with them winning the championship back in the 80's was not sought out for other coaching positions elsewhere?

Hell look at where Paterno took this to begin with. He went to his AD instead of the police? Why would anyone do that with a serious allegation of rape that implicates your former assistant coach of 30+ years IN YOUR OWN DAMN SHOWER BUILDING!? If anything you would immediately go to the police to show that you don't tolerate that, but instead no he does the bare absolute mininum (and some would say not enough legally and certainly fucking not enough morally).

Something is rotten at Penn State.

mcdermott

King Riptor wrote:

Kistra wrote:

KalTorak wrote:

Kids are like a Subway club card - get it punched every time you help a kid; turn in a fully-punched card for a guilt-free child-rape.

Ugh, maybe now that the famous coach guy is gone the media will turn back to burning this motherfucker alive.

Hahaha. You mean now that Paterno has been fired maybe the media will actually start talking about Sandusky? ESPN managed to talk about the scandal for 3 or 4 days without regularly mentioning anyone by name other than Paterno.

Its disgusting that the media did this.

Joe Paterno was wrong he admitted as much but maybe focus on the deranged sexual predator

Behind most sexual predators are people who knee what was happening and failed to take the proper actions to stop it. Paterno's failure, among others, led to more victims.

That's actually a more important moral to this story than anything that will happen to Sandusky. Nailing Sandusky to the wall is unlikely to actually prevent any future rapes at this point (directly or as a deterrent). Even if it does, changing attitudes like Paterno's will prevent many, many more.

It was absolutely critical to crucify Paterno.

Modern Man

Paterno wanted the whole thing to go away. He didn't want the program to be stained by Sandusky. So, he likely just worked to get the guy out of the program, quietly.

It's, sadly, not an uncommon approach in small towns when someone powerful does something awful. The rest of the establishment would rather just get rid of him quietly and pretend the whole thing never happened.

Preacher

Modern Man wrote:

Paterno wanted the whole thing to go away. He didn't want the program to be stained by Sandusky. So, he likely just worked to get the guy out of the program, quietly.

It's, sadly, not an uncommon approach in small towns when someone powerful does something awful. The rest of the establishment would rather just get rid of him quietly and pretend the whole thing never happened.

And it should be stopped. Paterno's own words and past beliefs are what lead to the anger. This is a guy who champions honor and not letting any of their actions bring shame to the university. All the while he was complicit in allowing a man he had good reason to suspect is a pedophile to continue to be on campus and associated with Penn State.

Though his past statements in 2006 about a potential sexual assault involving one the florida state players already shows his hand about how seriously he takes these kind of allegations.

In 2006, on the eve of the Orange Bowl, Paterno had this to say about a Florida State linebacker named A. J. Nicholson who had been accused of sexually assaulting a woman: “There’s so many people gravitating to these kids. He may not have even known what he was getting into, Nicholson. They knock on the door; somebody may knock on the door; a cute girl knocks on the door. What do you do?”

Paterno continued to a group of reporters: “Geez. I hope—thank God they don’t knock on my door, because I’d refer them to a couple of other rooms.”

Modern Man

I wonder what the NCAA will end up doing. Given the punishments they've handed down to programs for victimless violations of recruiting rules and the like, the Penn State situation has to result in some serious punishment for the program.

finalflight89

Apparently Penn State is exempt from the state open records law, and is one of four universities with this distinction. And they're not releasing any information about what they knew.

Preacher

Modern Man wrote:

I wonder what the NCAA will end up doing. Given the punishments they've handed down to programs for victimless violations of recruiting rules and the like, the Penn State situation has to result in some serious punishment for the program.

They have weasel room in that Sandusky when he committed the big noted rape was not a member of the football program and I don't believe not reporting a rape properly is an NCAA violation.

RandomEngy

It takes a special kind of person to riot against firing someone who helped cover up child rape. Wow.

Magus`

US A!

US A!

rockrnger

Modern Man wrote:

It's not unheard of for lawyers in high profile cases to try and influence the public's perception of their client. I guess if you make your client seem more sympathetic, you hope to have a better shot with the jury.

If that's what Sandusky and his lawyer were trying to do with this interview, I can't say that it was a success.

I was more talking about making your client look like a sweaty pedophile on national tv so it is harder to find a impartial jury. Again, not sure if that is possible.

Preacher

RandomEngy wrote:

It takes a special kind of person to riot against firing someone who helped cover up child rape. Wow.

Look 50 years of good deeds is like a get out of jail free card for ignoring some child rape. Its in the Penn State charter I believe.

kaz67

While I do agree the lion's share of the focus should be on Sandusky, I think it is perfectly acceptable to scrutinize Paterno and other officials who were aware of the situation. I mean they may not have committed a crime in the legal sense, but failing to take this sort of information directly to the police and is just inexcusable. I went to a pretty big football university as an undergrad and have seen firsthand how much people revere these coaches, but you really need to reevaluate your priorities if you find yourself defending Paterno on this.

KalTorak

Preacher wrote:

RandomEngy wrote:

It takes a special kind of person to riot against firing someone who helped cover up child rape. Wow.

Look 50 years of good deeds is like a get out of jail free card for ignoring some child rape. Its in the Penn State charter I believe.

What's that they like to chant? "We are Penn State"?

You sure are.

darleysam

kaz67 wrote:

While I do agree the lion's share of the focus should be on Sandusky, I think it is perfectly acceptable to scrutinize Paterno and other officials who were aware of the situation. I mean they may not have committed a crime in the legal sense, but failing to take this sort of information directly to the police and is just inexcusable. I went to a pretty big football university as an undergrad and have seen firsthand how much people revere these coaches, but you really need to reevaluate your priorities if you find yourself defending Paterno on this.

I mean, it's like the other day, I was just walking home and there was this guy who'd been shot lying in the street. I thought "man, I'd better do something about this", so I sent a text to a friend about it. I mean, what else could I do?

Preacher

darleysam wrote:

kaz67 wrote:

While I do agree the lion's share of the focus should be on Sandusky, I think it is perfectly acceptable to scrutinize Paterno and other officials who were aware of the situation. I mean they may not have committed a crime in the legal sense, but failing to take this sort of information directly to the police and is just inexcusable. I went to a pretty big football university as an undergrad and have seen firsthand how much people revere these coaches, but you really need to reevaluate your priorities if you find yourself defending Paterno on this.

I mean, it's like the other day, I was just walking home and there was this guy who'd been shot lying in the street. I thought "man, I'd better do something about this", so I sent a text to a friend about it. I mean, what else could I do?

Clearly call your boss and have him report it to the county tax commissioner!

Like the other day I heard a woman escaped a rapist and went straight to the police! That was just silly, she should have called that guys boss and asked him what he wanted her to do.

mcdermott

kaz67 wrote:

While I do agree the lion's share of the focus should be on Sandusky, I think it is perfectly acceptable to scrutinize Paterno and other officials who were aware of the situation. I mean they may not have committed a crime in the legal sense, but failing to take this sort of information directly to the police and is just inexcusable. I went to a pretty big football university as an undergrad and have seen firsthand how much people revere these coaches, but you really need to reevaluate your priorities if you find yourself defending Paterno on this.

I might be inclined to argue that those who covered for Sandusky are worse...at least Sandusky can claim mental illness. The rest just didn't want to deal with the headache and embarrassment.

enlightenedbum

AngelHedgie wrote:

Modern Man wrote:

darleysam wrote:

Modern Man wrote:

What I mean is that Paterno didn't see anything himself. All he had to go on was what someone else told him.

At what point in the process of a guy coming in to tell you that he just walked in on someone else raping a child, do you go "Oh that Mike, he's such a card!"

But that's not what Paterno did. He reported the incident to campus police and school administration. As someone meone who didn't witness the incident in question, there's not much more he could do.

Then frankly, you have no concept of who JoePa was. The man was one of (if not the) most powerful individuals in Happy Valley. He could have, with a single word, made sure that Sandusky never stepped foot on the Penn State campus again.

I've been saying this too, but according to most of the reliable people that report on Penn State, he used up a lot of that power when they tried to force him to retire in 2004 and he told them to fuck off.

Preacher

enlightenedbum wrote:

AngelHedgie wrote:

Modern Man wrote:

darleysam wrote:

Modern Man wrote:

What I mean is that Paterno didn't see anything himself. All he had to go on was what someone else told him.

At what point in the process of a guy coming in to tell you that he just walked in on someone else raping a child, do you go "Oh that Mike, he's such a card!"

But that's not what Paterno did. He reported the incident to campus police and school administration. As someone meone who didn't witness the incident in question, there's not much more he could do.

Then frankly, you have no concept of who JoePa was. The man was one of (if not the) most powerful individuals in Happy Valley. He could have, with a single word, made sure that Sandusky never stepped foot on the Penn State campus again.

I've been saying this too, but according to most of the reliable people that report on Penn State, he used up a lot of that power when they tried to force him to retire in 2004 and he told them to fuck off.

So two years after the sandusky incident he used up what power he had to save his own job. Not exactly a feather in his cap.

enlightenedbum

Preacher wrote:

enlightenedbum wrote:

AngelHedgie wrote:

Modern Man wrote:

darleysam wrote:

Modern Man wrote:

What I mean is that Paterno didn't see anything himself. All he had to go on was what someone else told him.

At what point in the process of a guy coming in to tell you that he just walked in on someone else raping a child, do you go "Oh that Mike, he's such a card!"

But that's not what Paterno did. He reported the incident to campus police and school administration. As someone meone who didn't witness the incident in question, there's not much more he could do.

Then frankly, you have no concept of who JoePa was. The man was one of (if not the) most powerful individuals in Happy Valley. He could have, with a single word, made sure that Sandusky never stepped foot on the Penn State campus again.

I've been saying this too, but according to most of the reliable people that report on Penn State, he used up a lot of that power when they tried to force him to retire in 2004 and he told them to fuck off.

So two years after the sandusky incident he used up what power he had to save his own job. Not exactly a feather in his cap.

Nope, not saying that at all. I'm just trying to make sure everyone is using the same and most accurate set of facts possible.

BubbaT

Modern Man wrote:

I wonder what the NCAA will end up doing. Given the punishments they've handed down to programs for victimless violations of recruiting rules and the like, the Penn State situation has to result in some serious punishment for the program.

Only thing I can think of is the morals clause in the NCAA rulebook, which calls for all players, coaches, refs, etc., to display "exemplary" character, ethics, and sportsmanship.

The NCAA rarely uses that clause to punish any player or school for off-field activity, though. When you hear a story about some player being suspended after he was arrested for DUI or fighting at a bar, the suspension almost always comes from the university's coach/athletic dept, not the NCAA.

Now when someone buys that player a sandwich, that's when the NCAA feels the need to step in.

Cantido

This thread reminds me how much I despise how sports is the most representative part of our universities and how so much money goes into these athletic programs while individual academic programs and college funding get cut.

I'm with Lisa Simpson. Fuck sports. I want National Disease Curing Championships.

enlightenedbum

The President of the NCAA has talked about this case, and he's said they'll weigh in after the facts are established via the legal process.

enlightenedbum

Cantido wrote:

This thread reminds me how much I despise how sports is the most representative part of our universities and how so much money goes into these athletic programs while individual colleges get cut.

Fuck sports. I want National Disease Curing Championships.

Most athletic department money (in some cases, all athletic department money) doesn't come from the general budget. It's a sideline. Also, (this is admittedly fucked up) a quality football/basketball team can hugely increase interest in the university among prospective students. And in Penn State's case, got them into the Big Ten, which is a huge research alliance in addition to being an athletic conference.

AngelHedgie

And from the "they really don't get it " department, the man leading the internal investigation is..the man who led the Vioxx cover up:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2011/11/sandusky_cover_up_why_is_kenneth_frazier_leading_the_investigation_at_penn_state_.html

BubbaT

Preacher wrote:

Also everyone is giving Paterno a real benefit of the doubt that he somehow knew sandusky for 30+ years and was never aware of his innapropriate relationship with children prior to 2002, yet Sandusky suddenly retires in 98-99 and we're supposed to believe that Paterno the top of the football program is unaware of the reason? And also completely unaware why Sandusky who is credited with them winning the championship back in the 80's was not sought out for other coaching positions elsewhere?

Hell look at where Paterno took this to begin with. He went to his AD instead of the police? Why would anyone do that with a serious allegation of rape that implicates your former assistant coach of 30+ years IN YOUR OWN DAMN SHOWER BUILDING!? If anything you would immediately go to the police to show that you don't tolerate that, but instead no he does the bare absolute mininum (and some would say not enough legally and certainly fucking not enough morally).

Something is rotten at Penn State.

Yup. This goes past Sandusky himself, the way the Catholic Church scandal went past a single molesting priest. The cover up is what's going to bite Penn St in the ass, not just the presence of a single criminal on staff.

Sandusky retired in 1998 after a child's mother complained that he was showering with her kid. Police (regular police, not campus police) conducted an investigation, but the DA decided not to prosecute. Sandusky admitted to showering with the kid. Penn St also conducted its own investigation into the mother's complaint. So Paterno and the rest of PSU's administration knew of Sandusky's inappropriate behavior by 1998 at the latest.

However, the reason for Sandusky's "retirement" was never made public.

At that point PSU decided to allow Sandusky to retain access to their facilities. They allowed him to continue using the Penn State brand name to promote his youth football camps.

Then in 2002 McQueary reports the shower rape to JoePa. This is now at least the 2nd incident in 5 years. And JoePa thinks that merely sending it up the administrative chain of command, and never following up on it, is enough? C'mon now. This is the exact same administrative chain of command that allowed Sandusky to retain access after the 1998 allegation was made. At best that's a sign that JoePa is senile or something and has completely forgotten about what transpired in 1998.

At worst? JoePa and the rest of the administration don't go to police because they're part of the cover up, dating back to at least 1998. The school doesn't go to the cops, or make it public, because they don't want anyone to know the real reason Sandusky was forced out in 1998. They don't want anyone to know that they allowed Sandusky continued access, and endorsed his youth camp, because then it would look like they helped enable the 2nd (2002) incident. A second cover up was needed to preserve the first cover up.



BTW - there are reports that PSU was still using Sandusky as a recruiter until 2011. If true, that would mean Penn St was sending him - at this point a person with multiple allegations of inappropriate sexual conduct with minors - to high schools.
http://www.wyff4.com/news/29738465/detail.html