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[SOPA] is shelved. EU voted [ACTA] down; rises from grave as [CETA]

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Posts

  • DistramDistram __BANNED USERS
    SOPA/PIPA were designed to distract from ACTA. The government's favorite tactic, especially the right-wing, is misdirection.

  • HounHoun Registered User regular
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    Echo wrote:

    am I understanding correctly that the 'rapporteur' is the guy that introduced the associated legislation in parliament?

    if so, perhaps he should get a goddamn clue

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  • Fallout2manFallout2man Registered User regular
    ACTA is much worse, it contains patent provisions I know are specifically designed as massive giveaways to Big Pharma. As much as I love to rag on the *AA, Big Pharma makes me shiver. The *AAs of the world get off on control, ownership and suing people, Big Pharma gets off on killing people for profit.

    On Ignorance:
    Kana wrote:
    If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"

    Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
  • SticksSticks Registered User regular
    ACTA is much worse, it contains patent provisions I know are specifically designed as massive giveaways to Big Pharma. As much as I love to rag on the *AA, Big Pharma makes me shiver. The *AAs of the world get off on control, ownership and suing people, Big Pharma gets off on killing people for profit.

    What?

  • Fallout2manFallout2man Registered User regular
    On Ignorance:
    Kana wrote:
    If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"

    Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
  • SticksSticks Registered User regular

    On the one hand, I can definitely see where they are coming from...this will likely fuck over developing countries for profit. On the other, I seem to recall that the U.S shoulders most of the cost of researching new drugs and getting them to market. It would be nice to spread that around a bit, with the goal of lowering those high fixed price schemes for patented drugs.

  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    Tamin wrote:
    Houn wrote:
    Man, I hate this planet so much.

    How much longer until we can colonize Mars and subsequently revolt agaisnt the Earth, and finally be free of all this bullshit?

    roughly 60 years before the first colonists, then a few hundred before we're able to launch an interplanetary fleet of hercs to destroy the Terrans

    We're also gambling on the presence of an alien weapon cache.


    Luckily we (the US) need to ratify this. I hope to GOD there's gonna be a gigantic bitchfest about it.

    UA1OmVB.png
  • Fallout2manFallout2man Registered User regular
    Sticks wrote:
    On the one hand, I can definitely see where they are coming from...this will likely fuck over developing countries for profit. On the other, I seem to recall that the U.S shoulders most of the cost of researching new drugs and getting them to market. It would be nice to spread that around a bit, with the goal of lowering those high fixed price schemes for patented drugs.

    Which would make sense if Big Pharma spent a lot of money on R&D. In fact they spend I believe almost 5:1 on Litigation of their IP versus R&D into new drugs, and yet they still make record profits each year. Study on that here.

    On Ignorance:
    Kana wrote:
    If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"

    Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    geez on some issues Obama is worse than the Republicans, even more of a corporate shill and I didn't think that was possible

    override367 on
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  • EchoEcho staring is caring Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Oh man. Picture from the Polish parliament.

    dk7VI.jpg

  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    Well.

    I wonder if Poland's gonna be ratifying that treaty.

    I'm thinking no.

    UA1OmVB.png
  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote:
    Well.

    I wonder if Poland's gonna be ratifying that treaty.

    I'm thinking no.

    It depends. If they have 200 other people outside that photo voting yes, then they will be. We can't really tell from that picture.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Distram wrote:
    SOPA/PIPA were designed to distract from ACTA. The government's favorite tactic, especially the right-wing, is misdirection.

    I think the strategy is more along the lines of, "Shoot as many pieces of legislation as possible at the problem and hope one or two get through."

    It'll work if they keep it up, too. Eventually people will just get tired and go, "Eh, whatever, we blocked the last six bills. Time to let the other guys win for a change."

    TOG Solid wrote:
    If that guy wasn't white he would have gotten popped by so many tasers simultaneously that Marvel could use that as the new origin for Electro.
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    edited January 2012


    Obama, hero and champion of civil liberties.

    Oh if only those mean old Republicans hadn't made him do it, mirite?

    The Ender on
    TOG Solid wrote:
    If that guy wasn't white he would have gotten popped by so many tasers simultaneously that Marvel could use that as the new origin for Electro.
  • mindsporkmindspork Registered User
    edited January 2012
    The Ender wrote:
    Distram wrote:
    SOPA/PIPA were designed to distract from ACTA. The government's favorite tactic, especially the right-wing, is misdirection.

    I think the strategy is more along the lines of, "Shoot as many pieces of legislation as possible at the problem and hope one or two get through."

    It'll work if they keep it up, too. Eventually people will just get tired and go, "Eh, whatever, we blocked the last six bills. Time to let the other guys win for a change."
    We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I will say: It is to wage war, by sea, land, and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be.

    mindspork on
  • N3buN3bu Registered User
    Trade Enforcement Unit? That sounds like a great movie plot!

    In a world, where piracy has become the world's biggest problem
    Chinese guy 1: "We're gonna download the internet, all of it! HAHAHAHA"
    Chinese guy 2: "HAHAHAHAHA"
    Only one agent had what it takes to protect hollywood from losing all of its money
    Agent Johnson: "Looks like you're going offline" *throws two grenades through the window of the chinese guys' appartment, then walks away from the explosion while putting sunglasses on*
    But now, he must face his biggest challenge yet
    Chinese internet pirates boss: "This Johnson guy is becoming a problem. We're going to show him how we download when we're ANGRY"
    Dwayne Johnson
    Agent Johnson: "DROP THE CD-R, NOW"
    Jet-Li
    Chinese internet pirates boss: "SOPA THAT, AGENT JOHNSON" *shoots a rocket on Agent Johnson's car"
    Trade Enforcement Unit, coming soon


  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    N3bu wrote:
    Trade Enforcement Unit? That sounds like a great movie plot!

    In a world, where piracy has become the world's biggest problem
    Chinese guy 1: "We're gonna download the internet, all of it! HAHAHAHA"
    Chinese guy 2: "HAHAHAHAHA"
    Only one agent had what it takes to protect hollywood from losing all of its money
    Agent Johnson: "Looks like you're going offline" *throws two grenades through the window of the chinese guys' appartment, then walks away from the explosion while putting sunglasses on*
    But now, he must face his biggest challenge yet
    Chinese internet pirates boss: "This Johnson guy is becoming a problem. We're going to show him how we download when we're ANGRY"
    Dwayne Johnson
    Agent Johnson: "DROP THE CD-R, NOW"
    Jet-Li
    Chinese internet pirates boss: "SOPA THAT, AGENT JOHNSON" *shoots a rocket on Agent Johnson's car"
    Trade Enforcement Unit, coming soon


    Day one.

    Spoiler:


    TOG Solid wrote:
    If that guy wasn't white he would have gotten popped by so many tasers simultaneously that Marvel could use that as the new origin for Electro.
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I've been trawling the net to try and gather information on ACTA, and I found this reddit page to be pretty useful in summarizing the key points and putting it in perspective.

    The most important point for our purposes is that even if a country ratifies ACTA, it is under no obligation to then pass SOPA+ or search every electronic device going through an airport. What ACTA codifies between the signatories is the right and authority to pass such measures. So basically while I still hate the treaty for being arranged so secretly and deceptively and on these principles would not want to see it ratified, the e-World won't end if it does go through. This said, in the World of ACTA it will become all the more important that we pay attention to any legislation being drafted and fight against it if it tampers with the internet or other rights.

  • BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    Sticks wrote: »
    On the other, I seem to recall that the U.S shoulders most of the cost of researching new drugs and getting them to market. It would be nice to spread that around a bit, with the goal of lowering those high fixed price schemes for patented drugs.

    That's just adorable. Do you honestly think that would be the outcome?

    I don't. It'd mean more money for drug companies, not a reduction in the price of those drugs. Capitalism at its finest.

  • Fallout2manFallout2man Registered User regular
    I've been trawling the net to try and gather information on ACTA, and I found this reddit page to be pretty useful in summarizing the key points and putting it in perspective.

    The most important point for our purposes is that even if a country ratifies ACTA, it is under no obligation to then pass SOPA+ or search every electronic device going through an airport. What ACTA codifies between the signatories is the right and authority to pass such measures. So basically while I still hate the treaty for being arranged so secretly and deceptively and on these principles would not want to see it ratified, the e-World won't end if it does go through. This said, in the World of ACTA it will become all the more important that we pay attention to any legislation being drafted and fight against it if it tampers with the internet or other rights.

    Let's consider something. We had Congress REMOVE PUBLIC DOMAIN WORKS and place them back under copyright because of treaties like this. Do you think that something like that is as harmless as you think? Even if it's just an excuse, excuses can be powerful when elected officials are easy to corrupt.

    On Ignorance:
    Kana wrote:
    If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"

    Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I've been trawling the net to try and gather information on ACTA, and I found this reddit page to be pretty useful in summarizing the key points and putting it in perspective.

    The most important point for our purposes is that even if a country ratifies ACTA, it is under no obligation to then pass SOPA+ or search every electronic device going through an airport. What ACTA codifies between the signatories is the right and authority to pass such measures. So basically while I still hate the treaty for being arranged so secretly and deceptively and on these principles would not want to see it ratified, the e-World won't end if it does go through. This said, in the World of ACTA it will become all the more important that we pay attention to any legislation being drafted and fight against it if it tampers with the internet or other rights.

    Let's consider something. We had Congress REMOVE PUBLIC DOMAIN WORKS and place them back under copyright because of treaties like this. Do you think that something like that is as harmless as you think? Even if it's just an excuse, excuses can be powerful when elected officials are easy to corrupt.

    I didn't say it was harmless, just that ACTA itself is not the end of the world. Also, the recopyrighting thing wasn't a case of treaty signed -> back on the copyright register. It was done under powers created by legislation passed to correspond with the treaty. You might argue that it's a semantic point, but most treaties don't mean police can break down your door the moment they're signed. Ultimately it's the legislature we should be vigilant against, especially if ACTA is ratified because they ultimately have the final say in these things.

    Speaking of keeping an eye on the legislature, Canadian D&D people may want to pay attention to Bill C-11, the reincarnated form of C-32. I wouldn't classify it as bad as SOPA was, but it does plan to criminalize any and all efforts at circumventing DRM, which is the dumb.

  • BersheliBersheli Registered User


    Some translations: "freedom of speech in internet", "donald tusk (polish prime minister) - where is your brain?" , "you are messing/fighting with millions of people".

    There's also something about "Donald Tusk, how will you download porn now?"

  • Fallout2manFallout2man Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    I didn't say it was harmless, just that ACTA itself is not the end of the world. Also, the recopyrighting thing wasn't a case of treaty signed -> back on the copyright register. It was done under powers created by legislation passed to correspond with the treaty. You might argue that it's a semantic point, but most treaties don't mean police can break down your door the moment they're signed. Ultimately it's the legislature we should be vigilant against, especially if ACTA is ratified because they ultimately have the final say in these things.

    Speaking of keeping an eye on the legislature, Canadian D&D people may want to pay attention to Bill C-11, the reincarnated form of C-32. I wouldn't classify it as bad as SOPA was, but it does plan to criminalize any and all efforts at circumventing DRM, which is the dumb.

    They were placed back under copyright due to the Berne Convention AKA the "Let's make it impossible to ever make copyrights shorter again" international treaty. Copyright in the United States, according to Article 1, section 8 of the U.S. Constitution may only be granted: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts. No treaty, no legislative powers, no anything may be changed, altered or expanded without strict adherence to a constitutional purpose. Legislators DID NOT have the power to extend copyright. The constitution is crystal clear on this. Yet the courts decided the constitution apparently no longer matters in such things.

    So no, ACTA may not be the end of the world but it is most certainly does a measure of considerable harm when our political environment has already been so corrupted by an earlier treaty which already was unconstitutional.

    Fallout2man on
    On Ignorance:
    Kana wrote:
    If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"

    Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
  • EchoEcho staring is caring Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Germany says it won't sign ACTA

    If they stick to that, it's pretty much ACTA dead in the water.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Echo wrote:
    Germany says it won't sign ACTA

    If they stick to that, it's pretty much ACTA dead in the water.

    I has a happy. :)

    I mean I know it won't be the end of the fight or anything, but having the one of the big wigs of the EU say this is pretty awesome.

    UPDATE: They won't sign yet. They want to see how the EU Parliament decides.

    RMS Oceanic on
  • Ori KleinOri Klein Registered User regular
    I don't know if it has been mentioned before, but there is a portion of anonymous that is laboring on an alternative decentralized Internet infrastructure technology. Several possible technologies, infact.

  • JacobyJacoby Registered User regular
    So they're making The Walled City from Idoru? Nice work, Anonymous. :)

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  • nescientistnescientist Registered User regular
    Jacoby wrote:
    So they're making The Walled City from Idoru? Nice work, Anonymous. :)

    Whoa, I always thought the walled city was based on 2channel, but I just sanity-checked the dates and Idoru was written three years before that website was created. Gibson is just that much of a genius I guess.

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Jacoby wrote:
    So they're making The Walled City from Idoru? Nice work, Anonymous. :)

    Whoa, I always thought the walled city was based on 2channel, but I just sanity-checked the dates and Idoru was written three years before that website was created. Gibson is just that much of a genius I guess.

    Gibson's genius is coming to technology issues from a humanities perspective. He understand how culture - art, politics and commerce - work, so he's been able to predict how people will incorporate technology better than the more science-focused SF crowd. He's said several times that he's not that big into tech, so he's not as entranced by the surface details and tech fetishist issues.

    Phillishere on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Jacoby wrote:
    So they're making The Walled City from Idoru? Nice work, Anonymous. :)

    Whoa, I always thought the walled city was based on 2channel, but I just sanity-checked the dates and Idoru was written three years before that website was created. Gibson is just that much of a genius I guess.

    Gibson's genius is coming to technology issues from a humanities perspective. He understand how culture - art, politics and commerce - work, so he's been able to predict how people will incorporate technology better than the more science-focused SF crowd. He's said several times that he's not that big into tech, so he's not as entranced by the surface details and tech fetishist issues.

    Even he says he completely missed the cellphone thing though.

  • EchoEcho staring is caring Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Verisign seizes .com domain registered via foreign Registrar on behalf of US Authorities

    ...which was one of the major worries about SOPA. Looks like they didn't even need SOPA for that, eh?

  • Fallout2manFallout2man Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Verisign seizes .com domain registered via foreign Registrar on behalf of US Authorities

    ...which was one of the major worries about SOPA. Looks like they didn't even need SOPA for that, eh?

    My theory is that they're just going to keep doing stuff like this regardless of what laws are passed until eventually the black hats decide to go for a full on cyber war over it. Normally we'd blame SOPA/PIPA for this, but after MegaUpload and now domain seizures of foreign domains...I, I just can't really believe the government was ever serious when it talked about copyrights and were instead using them as cover for doing whatever they wanted.

    On Ignorance:
    Kana wrote:
    If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"

    Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    I think the bigger concern is verisign going and seizing a domain becuase someone tells them to, who isn't US authorities.

    steam_sig.png
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    It was a court order, so it was US authorities. It just shows the need to make DNS global and not subject to national authorities

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I think the bigger concern is verisign going and seizing a domain becuase someone tells them to, who isn't US authorities.

    Maybe I read the article wrong, but weren't they served with a Federal Warrant? Not that it makes the situation any better, but it feels like due process was at least observed.

  • LochielLochiel Registered User regular
    Maybe I read the article wrong, but weren't they served with a Federal Warrant? Not that it makes the situation any better, but it feels like due process was at least observed.

    Nuremberg much?

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote:
    It was a court order, so it was US authorities. It just shows the need to make DNS global and not subject to national authorities

    No, the answer is that geeks need to learn what a flag of convenience is.

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  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    The problem is that the US needs to give up control, or everyone else needs to start using non-US controlled roots. Which is unlikely to happen

  • UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    Since we discussed it earlier, and occasionally this thread seems like a catchall for other technology issues, I thought I'd bring up that last week the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that a potential suspect in a child pornography case could not be compelled to decrypt a number of hard drives.

    The argument by the prosecutors was much the same as it was in the case discussed in the previous pages (Fricosu), and the argument by the defense was also very similar. One key difference to that case and Boucher is that the potential suspect never once made any admissions concerning ownership of the volumes or control over them, and thus couldn't be compelled to decrypt the drives even when granted limited immunity in the matter since investigators literally had no idea what they'd find on them, and couldn't even prove anything was on them.

    The decision is pretty interesting reading, and actually quite astute when it comes to technical matters, which is surprising these days. Also, interestingly, the 11th Circuit (located as it is in the Deep South) isn't particularly known for producing particularly controversial decisions.

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