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OWS - Finger-Wiggling Their Way To a Better Tomorrow
Posts
Nobody else cares about them, why do you?
"OWS members shouting a cohesive message is scary!"
About that...
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/17/another_national_review_contributor_pals_around_with_nativists/
Haven't the Tea Party done worse? Like showing up with guns during an early Obama speech?
meh, acting like everyone participating is behaving in the same way they would normally strikes me as optimistic. It's not that hard to get a crowd to start chanting bullshit, it doesn't really have to resonate with everyone.
that said, there's also not really anything chilling about it. crowds act like that.
Yes, but
-bad behavior by one group does not excuse it in another group
-comparing the Tea Party to OWS is apples and oranges; the former is a heavily establishment-sponsored and -promoted astroturf organization that had the singular goal of defeating Obama, especially with regards to the ACA. OWS is a disparate group of individuals opposed to the influx of private money into our democracy and the resulting corruption, especially with regards to the financial sector.
They held a rally in D.C. that was near an Obama event I believe. So it's not quite the same thing (I doubt the secret service would let anyone get that close to Obama while armed anyway.) One thing about the TP though is as loud as they are they're always very timely and permit-oriented with what they do. AFP or whomever's running the event pays for everything, people get bussed in, Fox covers it, and then they go on their merry way after the event is over. OWS on the other hand has openly violated permit requirements and does show up at public events and shout-down or openly question public figures (they even do this at certain Obama events as well.) They don't really pick fights, but there is usually some eliminationist rhetoric going back and forth.
Personally I think what spool secretly finds chilling is the idea that *gasp* a crowd would DARE to challenge a public speaker if he's peddling BS they don't agree with at all. A certain "break in etiquette" unique to OWS because OWS couldn't get anything done without breaking the rules. The entire system we have now is set up to do literally everything possible to prevent large scale changes from occurring in response to the needs of the majority of the people. So if a spectacle wasn't made about it, such as via breaking certain rules meant to stifle effective speech, then no one would ever pay attention. The idea that a crowd can challenge someone lying to them, I'm sure, is an especially frightening idea to anyone who supports candidates that rely on misinformation to get elected.
My point was that spool was being silly saying OWS was being intimidating with tactics typically used by all protest groups and that they're harmless compared to their Republican counter-parts (and opposites). I'm not endorsing the Tea Party's methods. Yes, I know the Tea Party are a astroturf but they're the closest counter-part to the OWS I can think of at the moment.
You know things are bad when the shareholders start thinking CEOs are overpaid.
The idea of ending the Fed is to remove their monopoly on currency. The more currencies people can invest in the more secure their assets will be. If the USD or Euro crashes as long as you have some silver or gold others can trade you're far better off. Mexico has recently allowed for the Peso to be traded in for silver at their banks.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds it annoying. It's also slow and inefficient .
I hold 50 shares of C. I also voted against the CEO's pay package, mainly because of the "retention" bonus they gave him. Honestly that's the biggest load of BS there is in executive pay. It's like a John Galt sort of thing that somehow the CEO might go on strike if they don't pay him a bonus, even though the obvious question is WHERE WOULD HE GO? It's not like Europe is doing that well these days and as far as I know the other major financials are doing just fine with their CEOs. He's reallllly not at risk for jumping ship, so it's just an excuse of the board of directors to scratch each other's backs and not get any flack about it from shareholders.
Of course, I'm just one tiny shareholder so it's not like they're going to ask me why I voted the way I did. Fortunately the big investors seem to have the same objection I do, so at least our point is being heard.
In the end, shareholders are nearly as powerless as anyone else in the OWS movement these days because so many board of directors are insiders and have no incentive to do anything for the shareholders. If it weren't for this mandatory vote, they probably would have never known the dissatisfaction among the shareholders.
Except if those loans don't get repaid. Or if the money supply increases too fast the cash you get back has less purchasing power than the cash you lent out. Then you've lost.
There's nothing stopping you from holding foreign currencies right now. There are quite a lot of them! You can hold them, bank with them, even invest them! You can even buy gold bars if you really want! You just can't use them to buy stuff at your local store, which is a damn good thing. You don't want to have prices listed in a dozen currencies, nor do you want to weigh out a fraction of a gram of gold dust to buy something.
Full reserve banking is a giant fucking drag on the economy.
Multiple currencies are a terrible fucking idea and also a huge drag on the economy.
What you are talking about with Mexico sounds like some kind of silver standard? Non-fiat currencies cause huge problems with the economy.
We've moved away from all this shit for a reason.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/scott-olsen-casualty-of-the-occupation-20120119
And to see if you read the whole thing, I'm not going to tell you which page this gem comes from:
Which is why you start with non-risky loans and control the increase in supply. If you want it to work you do it right.
>There's nothing stopping you from holding foreign currencies right now.
Except for the second part of your post where you mention how I wouldn't be able to spend it.
Sorry, I thought I had mentioned how FRB creates a major boost in the economy.
As for the rest of your post you're going to have to cite your claim that multiple currencies cause a drag on the economy. And as for non-fiat currencies causing problems that's demonstrably untrue. We moved away from non-fiat currencies because bankers bought out the politicians, not for some economic benefit.
As for Mexico and silver, I'm currently looking for a source. I heard it on a news program this morning so I don't have one immediately available.
The store owner now has a basket of currencies that he has to deal with. US banks aren't going to want to bank Mexican Pesos, what does he do with them? Banks that issue their own currencies (which they will if you go all the way and allow official sub-currencies) will refuse to touch competitor's currencies, so he'll have to bank at every bank.
Prices fluctuate daily now, with exchange rates
Making change would require either a ridiculous amount of math (pay in one currency, change in another) or a huge drawer (change for every currency in use).
You will probably be getting completely screwed on every currency except the one the owner prefers, so he doesn't have to adjust his prices / do exchange as often.
What currencies do you pay your taxes / fees / whatever to the government? They won't want foreign / commercial bills, they will want USD.
You already did all this before, it didn't turn out so well
One might want to explore the period of near chaos that was the United States under the Articles of Confederation.
You can spend it. You just have to convert it to local currency first or the person you are doing business with has no obligation to accept it.
Hahahahahaha. Holy shit.
Milton Friedman wants a word with you. If you don't know who that is, you shouldn't be talking like you know anything about fiat currency and why we all switched to it. The understanding of the contribution of non-fiat currency to the Great Depression is like .. 40+ years old at this point.
Also, you seem extremely confused about the difference between multiple currencies and fiat currency. These are not related.
The drag effect of multiple currencies is pretty obvious. Phyphor hits on most of the points above.
He keeps the currency or pays his bill with it or exchanges it to the other form he wants to use or whatever he wants. People might just use it for their savings as a backup (which some people use gold and silver for now) and use one form of currency for all their everyday transactions.
>What currencies do you pay your taxes / fees / whatever to the government? They won't want foreign / commercial bills, they will want USD.
They would accept it and then convert it into whatever they need it for. Money is becoming mostly digital now anyways so it wont be to much of a hassle. In fact the US government is now planning on paying all of its SSI checks digitally.
>Banks that issue their own currencies (which they will if you go all the way and allow official sub-currencies) will refuse to touch competitor's currencies
Not if they're based on a commodity like gold or silver.
I know who Milton Friedman is, and macro economics is all voodoo.
>The understanding of the contribution of non-fiat currency to the Great Depression is like .. 40+ years old at this point.
This is debatable, and is debated among economists.
I see your Milton Friedman and raise you Steve Keen. I'd also recommend learning a little bit about the history of currency.
And as for learning about the history of currency... that link goes back to the start of thread. Which Shryke has contributed too from the very start.
Just because he was wrong, does not mean Steve Keen was right.
Oh god, this just keeps getting better and better. :lol:
Okay, credit cards functionally do all of this already. CCs are denominated in one currency but can pay in another. You get charged exchange fees, but guess what? Those aren't going away in your model either. Technically, anyone can pay in any currency to any currency through bank exchanges... by paying a few percent extra in fees.
Prices will rise because now the store owners need to take an extra step to make their money useful. Either they add a premium on all non-USD prices (for example), or all prices go up.
Your backup savings example is meaningless, because you can already do that today (yes, you'd need to convert back from your savings currency to USD, but you're not going to be carrying around gold bars anyway so you'll likely still need to convert).
Right, they'll convert it. Or, rather, they'll require you convert it first and pay to do so. You'll pay USD, you'll be taxed in USD. Your cheques are already effectively paid digitally, you're not getting mailed cash. How does this make things any better?
That just leads to the valuation problems of modern day metal standards. They won't be able to issue much currency and so won't matter. Or they won't have enough gold to back the currency they issue
http://bradhicks.livejournal.com/459368.html
And does anyone care? Will anything be done about it? Nope. So long as the trustees keep getting their back scratched, nothing will change.
I only ask this because mobs of angry people haven't marched on the headquarters of the major banks, barricaded the exits, and set them the fuck on fire.
What is this fucking sorcery, I was assured by speaker Boehner that this isn't a serious issue and attempting to correct it will bankrupt hospitals
I wish I could get out of America so hard lately
You know, sometimes it makes you wonder if the conspiracy nuts got one or two things right. I mean, why doesn't anyone notice shit like this either?
Last night, anarchists smahsed a bunch of shit in 'Frisco. I hope NYC doesn't go this route today.
Weird. None of the sources I've seen have made this link.