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[Primary 2012] Mormonism might not sink Romney, but it sank our last thread (READ OP)

SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
edited December 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
WE WERE SO CLOSE. Three pages away from completing an American politics thread in Debate and Discourse that wasn't locked for going horribly and belligerently off-topic, just three (3) (III). But alas.

I'm starting a new thread now mainly because I think the thread title is both clever and also educational so I want to reserve the right to ensconce it on the forums as a semi-permanent fixture. Let us gaze upon it and ponder how maybe it's our fault we can't have nice things? I sort of doubt anyone has anything interesting to say about political primaries tonight (judging from the last couple pages of the previous thread anyway). In the immediate future, I'll be writing a new OP which sort of condenses down everything that's happened over the last couple of weeks in the primary. A quick run down:

*Herman Cain will apparently be pulling out prematurely -- no word from the women who accuse him of sexual impropriety as to whether or not that's something Herman Cain normally does.
*Newt Gingrich takes over the mantle of Not Romney, complains it smells like Perry's hair products.
*There was a third thing I wanted to mention, but I can't remember what it... uh... oops.
*Michelle Bachmann today offered a scathing criticism on our diplomatic presence in Tehran, later learned that Jimmy Carter isn't the incumbent. [h/t to Bagginses -- totally better than what I wrote]
*9-9-9!
*Ron Paul posting double-digits in Iowa right now, set to over-perform since everyone's ground game is looking kind of weak right now.
*Mitt Romney is still Mormon. He was Mormon yesterday, and he'll be Mormon tomorrow. So maybe we don't have to talk about it today?

UPDATE: 1 Dec 2011
And now, a message about on-topic posting for those devoid of common sense
BUT SAMMY! However will I know if I'm posting in the right thread?

That's a great question, rhetorical device! Generally speaking, if your post makes a direct reference to either a candidate or an electorate, then you're almost certainly talking about an election; good for you! If your post doesn't make a direct reference to either of these things, you should probably take a second to ask yourself why. And as a rule, if your post either begins or ends with any of the following real-world statements:

*This is the closest thread for this...
*I know this is kind of a tangent...
*Sorry for bringing this thread off topic...

Then you certainly ought to know better than to hit reply. Go ahead and delete everything you wrote, or copy/paste it into your own thread should you so choose. AND FOR GOD'S SAKE, PEOPLE, STOP FUCKING REPLYING TO POSTS WHICH INCLUDE THESE PHRASES

Everyone take a page out of Herman Cain's book as we go forward: either stay on message, or just sit there and say nothing.

9-9-9!

SammyF on
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Posts

  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    When are the next debates? Since the candidates are starting to hit at each other, those look to be real fun.

    Rchanen on
    But then I like seeing dwarves on unconventional mounts.
  • ClevingerClevinger Registered User regular
    Rchanen wrote:
    When are the next debates? Since the candidates are starting to hit at each other, those look to be real fun.

    Dec 10 and 15. Last ones before voting starts, I think.

  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    I was kind of surprised at the closure. Usually they only lock the thread if they catch an ongoing tangent, rather than one at least a page dead.

    And this happened.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    *Newt Gingrich takes over the mantle of Not Romney, complains it smells like Perry's hair products.

    -.-

    Although Newt probably has slightly more mainstream appeal than Perry or Bachmann, in that he's less inclined to say insane things (unless you bring up taxes)... look at the guy. He's a miniature version of the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.

    Looks are a significant factor in politics, and Newt is a fat slob. He will not be close second place this year (his hair is also completely white, which seems to be a turn-off for most people).


    TOG Solid wrote:
    If that guy wasn't white he would have gotten popped by so many tasers simultaneously that Marvel could use that as the new origin for Electro.
  • dbrock270dbrock270 Registered User regular
    Has Bachmann thought out anything?

  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    The Ender wrote:
    *Newt Gingrich takes over the mantle of Not Romney, complains it smells like Perry's hair products.

    -.-

    Although Newt probably has slightly more mainstream appeal than Perry or Bachmann, in that he's less inclined to say insane things (unless you bring up taxes)... look at the guy. He's a miniature version of the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.

    Looks are a significant factor in politics, and Newt is a fat slob. He will not be close second place this year (his hair is also completely white, which seems to be a turn-off for most people).


    Is there anything about Gingritch that isn't white?

  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote:
    I was kind of surprised at the closure. Usually they only lock the thread if they catch an ongoing tangent, rather than one at least a page dead.

    And this happened.

    Man, I thought with her committee membership she was supposed to be the one who knew something about foreign policy.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    It's plausible that Bachmann really was speaking hypothetically. I wouldn't put it past her to be so ignorant she thought there was an embassy in Iran, but I'd like to see a transcript first.
    Is there anything about Gingritch that isn't white?

    Stay Puft isn't ethically fit to be the leader of a country, as evidenced by the treatment he gave his ill wife, but I'll say this - at least there's one or two things to be liked about him. He's pro-conservation, he's a space enthusiast, he's an advocate for education and, in general, he's pretty pro-science.

    Little to none of that can be said of his primary opponents.

    TOG Solid wrote:
    If that guy wasn't white he would have gotten popped by so many tasers simultaneously that Marvel could use that as the new origin for Electro.
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Harrisonburg, VARegistered User regular
    He cannot be pro-science and simultaneously the nominee. Hasn't he flipped back to the stupid position on climate change?

  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote:
    Bagginses wrote:
    I was kind of surprised at the closure. Usually they only lock the thread if they catch an ongoing tangent, rather than one at least a page dead.

    And this happened.

    Man, I thought with her committee membership she was supposed to be the one who knew something about foreign policy.
    The Ender wrote:
    It's plausible that Bachmann really was speaking hypothetically. I wouldn't put it past her to be so ignorant she thought there was an embassy in Iran, but I'd like to see a transcript first.

    I...guess that's plausible? Although I have no idea how you talk hypothetically about something that doesn't even exist. It'd be like campaigning against the West Dakota state legislature's bill on something or other.

    Personally, I think she's just trying to further emulate Ronald Reagan. By campaigning against Jimmy Carter.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Congresswoman Bachmann is a member of the House Select Committee on Intelligence and is fully aware that we do not have an embassy in Iran and have not had one since 1980. She was agreeing with the actions taken by the British to secure their embassy personnel and was speaking in the hypothetical, that if she was President of the United States and if we had an embassy in Iran, she would have taken the same actions as the British.

    This sounds plausible to me. Of course, a transcript will sort it out for sure either way.

    TOG Solid wrote:
    If that guy wasn't white he would have gotten popped by so many tasers simultaneously that Marvel could use that as the new origin for Electro.
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    He cannot be pro-science and simultaneously the nominee. Hasn't he flipped back to the stupid position on climate change?

    If he has, it's news to me. A big part of the reason Stay Puft switched to Catholicism was their stance on science issues.

    TOG Solid wrote:
    If that guy wasn't white he would have gotten popped by so many tasers simultaneously that Marvel could use that as the new origin for Electro.
  • ClevingerClevinger Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    The Ender wrote:
    It's plausible that Bachmann really was speaking hypothetically. I wouldn't put it past her to be so ignorant she thought there was an embassy in Iran, but I'd like to see a transcript first.
    Is there anything about Gingritch that isn't white?

    Stay Puft isn't ethically fit to be the leader of a country, as evidenced by the treatment he gave his ill wife, but I'll say this - at least there's one or two things to be liked about him. He's pro-conservation, he's a space enthusiast, he's an advocate for education and, in general, he's pretty pro-science.

    Little to none of that can be said of his primary opponents.

    He's "space enthusiast" but thinks NASA should have been shut down decades ago so the private sector would have built bases on the moon by now or some dumb bullshit that would never have happened.

    Clevinger on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    He cannot be pro-science and simultaneously the nominee. Hasn't he flipped back to the stupid position on climate change?

    I thought Newt also flipped his position on immigration recently too. Or just had a terrible one or something.

    shryke on
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    The Ender wrote:
    He cannot be pro-science and simultaneously the nominee. Hasn't he flipped back to the stupid position on climate change?

    If he has, it's news to me. A big part of the reason Stay Puft switched to Catholicism was their stance on science issues.

    "blanket everything with generic statements: say "x" is possible and just put "and god did it" afterwards"? (example: "Sure aliens could exist, and god did it")
    This way if there wrong its no big deal and all hypothetical, but if there right, the pope gets to wear this shirt:
    hipster_gabe_det_large.jpg

    Thats so much being pro science as it's pro-business of manipulation. I guess how that could be seen as useful to politics though.

    DiannaoChong on
    steam_sig.png
  • AtomikaAtomika Merry Christmas your arse I pray God it's our lastRegistered User regular
    SO NBC apparently asked for Bachmann's reaction to the burgeoning Iran/Britain crisis.

    "The first thing I would do is close the US embassy there."



    Can't make this stuff up, folks. Oh, and she also said that Rick Santorum would make a great VP or AG for her presidency. I'm pretty sure Rick Santorum can't even make a great bowl of microwave popcorn.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    He's "space enthusiast" but thinks NASA should have been shut down decades ago so the private sector would have built bases on the moon by now or some dumb bullshit that would never have happened.

    No, not really. He has more or less the same stance as Phil Plait. I don't really agree that it's the best way to approach space exploration, but both of them make very valid points about NASA and why we've been hanging around in LEO for so long.
    "blanket everything with generic statements: say "x" is possible and just put "and god did it" afterwards"? (example: "Sure aliens could exist, and god did it")

    This way if there wrong its no big deal and all hypothetical, but if there right, the pope gets to wear this shirt.

    Um, no. On a lot of topics the Vatican has real experts serving as advisors (astronomy, biology, geology, etc). Yes, they still ignore everyone's favourite razor, but - for a layman - the Catholic church is easily one of the most science-friendly religious organizations around (partly because their competitors are so backwards).

    TOG Solid wrote:
    If that guy wasn't white he would have gotten popped by so many tasers simultaneously that Marvel could use that as the new origin for Electro.
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Can't make this stuff up, folks. Oh, and she also said that Rick Santorum would make a great VP or AG for her presidency. I'm pretty sure Rick Santorum can't even make a great bowl of microwave popcorn.

    Ew, don't mention things like a Santorum and popcorn in the same paragraph, please. I eat popcorn.

    TOG Solid wrote:
    If that guy wasn't white he would have gotten popped by so many tasers simultaneously that Marvel could use that as the new origin for Electro.
  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    SO NBC apparently asked for Bachmann's reaction to the burgeoning Iran/Britain crisis.

    "The first thing I would do is close the US embassy there."



    Can't make this stuff up, folks --

    Ostensibly you can't, but that version of events doesn't match what the reporter from NBC says happened -- that she mentioned that she'd close the embassy during a campaign speech in Iowa.

    I'm starting to get the sinking feeling that this story has been retold so many times that it's no longer factually accurate.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Ostensibly you can't, but that version of events doesn't match what the reporter from NBC says happened -- that she mentioned that she'd close the embassy during a campaign speech in Iowa.

    I'm starting to get the sinking feeling that this story has been retold so many times that it's no longer factually accurate.

    I'm inclined to go with her staffers at the moment. It sounds like she was talking about the British embassy, and mentioned the American embassy as a hypothetical.


    It should probably be pointed-out that the idea is dumb as shit anyway, even if you did really have an embassy there.

    TOG Solid wrote:
    If that guy wasn't white he would have gotten popped by so many tasers simultaneously that Marvel could use that as the new origin for Electro.
  • AtomikaAtomika Merry Christmas your arse I pray God it's our lastRegistered User regular
    At this point in the game, I have to wonder what Bachmann is still doing in running her fake campaign. Not only does she not have a chance, but judging from her financial records she doesn't even any plan to actually run a primary campaign in any fashion other than name only.

    She's already accomplished what I thought she was after, i.e., rile up the hard-right enough to solidify her book deal(s) and future show on Fox News, yet she persists in her delusion that she's actually a real candidate for office. If she's not careful, I'm going to start to think her crazypants horseshit isn't just a cynical ploy, but rather a legitimate expression of her mental illness like her best buddy, Rick Santorum.


    And god, what would a Bachmann/Santorum administration look like. "Hey folks, we may not know a gol' durned thing about no economic recovery or foreign policy, but we're pretty sure everyone is on board with our Make All Gays Have Rape Babies Act."

  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    "blanket everything with generic statements: say "x" is possible and just put "and god did it" afterwards"? (example: "Sure aliens could exist, and god did it")

    This way if there wrong its no big deal and all hypothetical, but if there right, the pope gets to wear this shirt.

    Um, no. On a lot of topics the Vatican has real experts serving as advisors (astronomy, biology, geology, etc). Yes, they still ignore everyone's favourite razor, but - for a layman - the Catholic church is easily one of the most science-friendly religious organizations around (partly because their competitors are so backwards).

    Its alot like how america is in general. You have some really smart people, really reasonable people. but then you talk to the average and all that goes out the window. This is how I see it, they do have those experts, yes. They do use common sense and say "dont be silly, we can use common sense when approaching this subject!" and be absolutely reasonable about things. Personally I believe these people are just good people(if they had been led into religion or not). However once you move into the mainstream it gets a hell of a lot worse and suddenly those experts dont even exist or those claims are the devil. The middle is the uninformed,misguided and brainwashed. Usually into the wrong stance due to fear. From who? the "bad" people.

    I think the point I want to make is the RCC get those people for show, they dont actually care what there saying as they will just deny it when it suits them. It's blanket coverage that they can and still will call blasphemy or lies and still take the credit for if they're right.

    edit: I fucked all the quotes up. whoops

    DiannaoChong on
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  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    \
    ...And god, what would a Bachmann/Santorum administration look like..."

    Can I introduce you to my friend, the Dark Ages?

    Lh96QHG.png
  • ClevingerClevinger Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    I don't know if anyone cares about Intrade, but Romney's sunk below 50. He was at 70+ just before Gingrich got that big endorsement and all those polls showing the huge support for him in Florida and Iowa came out.

    Clevinger on
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    So Ron Paul is making videos about Newt:

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/CWKTOCP45zY

    (BTW, how the hell do you do inline youtube?)

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    The most, the very most sensible thing Newt has said, and he's said it consistently in pretty much every debate, is that the candidates should be focused on the President and not each other. If there's one reason he's getting some traction, it's because he's attacking the President instead of his fellow Republicans.

    This circular firing squad has to end!

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    These candidates haven't even gone after each other that much. They've been especially friendly to Romney.

    enlightenedbum on
    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • The Fourth EstateThe Fourth Estate Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    These candidates haven't even gone after each other that much. They've been especially friendly to Romney.

    The man is the definition of a milquetoast. The second people don't have to pay attention to him, he's finished. Why attack someone who will fade at the first opportunity?

    The Fourth Estate on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    These candidates haven't even gone after each other that much. They've been especially friendly to Romney.

    Maybe not for much longer:
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/11/back_to_the_murdoch_primary_pt2.php?ref=fpblg
    the raft of new polling data showing that New Gingrich of all people is now seriously competing with [Mitt Romney] for the Republican nomination.

    As you’ll remember, last night Romney sat down for an unexpectedly combative interview with Fox’s Bret Baier. Baier pressed Romney considerably more than Romney seems to have expected on the ‘flip-flop’ issue — certainly more Fox usually does with a generic or anointed Republican, and Romney clearly didn’t like it.

    Over the course of Wednesday, national Dems had been taunting Romney’s campaign about the interview. And this evening, Baier went on Fox’s O’Reilly show and described Romney complaining to him about the interview after the show.
    It’s one thing to go after someone with hard questions in an interview, quite another to trash the guy with what were off camera comments after the interview. Especially stuff like this that — let’s be honest — makes Mitt sound like a wuss.

    Maybe that’s just Baier. But Fox News is a really top down operation. And it plays favorites, just as much within GOP politics as between the two parties themselves. As I’ve mentioned before, one of the biggest undiscussed parts of the GOP primary process is the Murdoch primary. This is part of that.

    Basically, with Gingrich rising again, Ailes and Fox News may have begun turning on Romney for a more palatable candidate.

  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    These candidates haven't even gone after each other that much. They've been especially friendly to Romney.

    The man is the definition of a milquetoast. The second people don't have to pay attention to him, he's finished. Why attack someone who will fade at the first opportunity?
    More likely they're convinced that he is going to be the Nominee; He's consistently held the #2 spot in the poles despite being the most "liberal" of the primary options (except for huntsman but he's going nowhere) and at the end of the day he'll have the pick of the litter.

    Lets review shall we?

    Bachman: burned out months ago, but like a punch drunk boxer she won't stop fighting until she's dragged from the arena by her staff who realize how brutalized she actually is.
    Santorum: Google=death for him.
    Newt: He's deeply in debt and hasn't even started campaigning in the primaries.
    Cain: has absolutely no idea what the hell forign policy is.
    Perry: can't remember 3 things at a time.

    No. Mitt may be an utter weather vane of politics but he has the sort of Bush Jr. charm that the republican base eats up and when the smoke clears will be the nominee.

    Spoiler:
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Harrisonburg, VARegistered User regular
    spool32 wrote:
    The most, the very most sensible thing Newt has said, and he's said it consistently in pretty much every debate, is that the candidates should be focused on the President and not each other. If there's one reason he's getting some traction, it's because he's attacking the President instead of his fellow Republicans.

    This circular firing squad has to end!
    Except the point of a presidential primary is to elevate yourself at the expense of several other people.

  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    This thread title is goddamn hysterical. :^:

    I heard about the latest going ons via the Howard Stern Show. Cain is really kinda digging himself into an inescapable hole. But then Romney's religion comes up again and... This whole thing is a whack-a-mole. People rise up and fall down on a constant basis. The only person who has been consistent in this entire running is Bachmann - she's always been an under-performer in this whole 'race.' Oh, her and... what's his face, Santorem I think? God I can't even remember that dude, how embarrassing.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    Gaddez wrote:
    These candidates haven't even gone after each other that much. They've been especially friendly to Romney.

    The man is the definition of a milquetoast. The second people don't have to pay attention to him, he's finished. Why attack someone who will fade at the first opportunity?
    More likely they're convinced that he is going to be the Nominee; He's consistently held the #2 spot in the poles despite being the most "liberal" of the primary options (except for huntsman but he's going nowhere) and at the end of the day he'll have the pick of the litter.

    Lets review shall we?

    Bachman: burned out months ago, but like a punch drunk boxer she won't stop fighting until she's dragged from the arena by her staff who realize how brutalized she actually is.
    Santorum: Google=death for him.
    Newt: He's deeply in debt and hasn't even started campaigning in the primaries.
    Cain: has absolutely no idea what the hell forign policy is.
    Perry: can't remember 3 things at a time.

    No. Mitt may be an utter weather vane of politics but he has the sort of Bush Jr. charm that the republican base eats up and when the smoke clears will be the nominee.

    What the hell happened to Ron Paul in your review there?

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Harrisonburg, VARegistered User regular
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Bachmann surged several months ago, and won the Iowa straw poll.

    I don't remember it.

    I'm not the strictest of people in following politics, but I follow it closer than most people tend to. And if I forgot a 'victory' of that sort, it only goes to show the meaningless of the event. The constant rise and fall, as I mentioned, totally undoes anything these candidates "work" to do. Which is drum thumping at the moment. Part of it is because they work on burying each other's accomplishments.

    Edit - As I was typing the post, I did remember it. But again, back when it happened, it was questioned as an odd fluke.

    Henroid on
    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote:
    Bachmann surged several months ago, and won the Iowa straw poll.

    I don't remember it.

    I'm not the strictest of people in following politics, but I follow it closer than most people tend to. And if I forgot a 'victory' of that sort, it only goes to show the meaningless of the event. The constant rise and fall, as I mentioned, totally undoes anything these candidates "work" to do. Which is drum thumping at the moment. Part of it is because they work on burying each other's accomplishments.

    Edit - As I was typing the post, I did remember it. But again, back when it happened, it was questioned as an odd fluke.

    It wasn't a fluke, it was her pouring alot of money into the thing to get a big surge in attention and such (and thus gain votes and funding).

    And it was working.

    The problem was Perry, the great white not-yet-declared messiah at that time, declared like days later and basically cut the legs out from under her campaign by stealing all the media attention. She's never recovered.

  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    But that in itself would've been a show of strength - remaining relevant despite other victories. Or in this case, Perry chiming in.

    I wonder how much media attention plays into all this, swaying opinions. Because Fox is NOT dedicating people to any one candidate, and by the time they have to vote, people are going to be flabbergasted.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Harrisonburg, VARegistered User regular
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    A brokered convention would be so very amazing.

    God doesn't love us enough for that to happen

    sig.png
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote:
    But that in itself would've been a show of strength - remaining relevant despite other victories. Or in this case, Perry chiming in.

    I wonder how much media attention plays into all this, swaying opinions. Because Fox is NOT dedicating people to any one candidate, and by the time they have to vote, people are going to be flabbergasted.

    She was as relevant as Cain was when he was getting his surge. And is as relevant as Cain is now.

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