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Hi Figgy. Sorry as all hell to say this, but Chrishallet83 has the right of it - you've got a lemon. When you start to factor in all the time off you have to take to drop a car off the dealership, argue with mechanics, and generally be hassled, this car is costing you time and money. It isn't worth it. If you have a means of legal redress, I humbly suggest you do so immediately. Given what state/province you live in, there is usually a 30 day lemon law in effect - but, it could be considerably more or less depending where you live.
In summary, you have a few options, but time could be a factor. It is best to get a new car from Toyota, or pursue them through the lemon laws applicable to where you live. Yeah, I know, it's a hassle. You've endured enough already over this shitty car. I sincerely hope you get this squared away, I'm pullin' for ya.
Also, Toyota's customer service (corporate) #:
Phone: 800-331-4331
Fax: 310-468-7814
Mon - Fri, 5:00 am - 6:00 pm PST
Sat, 7:00 am - 4:00 pm PST
Or send correspondence to: Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
19001 South Western Ave.
Dept. WC11
Torrance, CA 90501
This. I would not be surprised if the dealership is trying to keep you busy until the window of opportunity for calling them out on a lemon law has passed.
Yeah, I don't have too much experience with this stuff myself, but considering your own dealership has been flat-out lying to your face, and the other dealership doesn't even seem to be telling you the full truth (the full truth being, as an example, "yeah that's super-low mpg, and the acceleration thing isn't normal... Maybe there's something that needs fixing the other dealership missed, bring it in and we'll take a look"), I suspect this is what they are trying to do. Maybe the other local dealership (the second one you talked to) even knows what's going on at your original dealership. Call Toyota and/or a lawyer.
It recommends that you first talk to the dealer (which you've done) then take it up with the manufacturer itself (which you should do once you have some hard evidence of your MPG) before taking it up with them.
They can institute the manufacturer buying the car back off you as well as paying for any out of pocket expenses, but it seems like it's a lengthy process. I guess all you can do is keep on keeping on and keep records of everything you've paid for in relation to getting the car looked at (including time off work, time spent in waiting rooms, etc)
1) I'm not guaging the fuel consumption accurately. If there's still 7L or so in the tank when the needle is at the bottom of the guage, that makes a big difference.
2) The lack of power could be something I'm noticing because of the 4 speed tranny.
Fill up, reset, fill up. Take distance and 2nd fill-up volume as divisor. That'll give you your consumption rate. You could do it a couple times to get a better average if you wanted.
I can roll it. It just feels difficult to do so. I could be imagining it.
I did notice the power difference immediately. And judging by the odometer being at 1900 (and -80 for starting KM) and 4 tanks of gas, the economy has always been poor.
I'll get a proper reading next tank.
Even still, you shouldn't have to mash the accelerator just to go up a hill. I have an 07 matrix (4 cylinder)and, while it certaintly isn't a speed demon, I only have to floor it if i'm merging into insanely fast traffic. Otherwise a gentle push down is enough for everything, including keeping your speed as you go up most hills.
Ethanol's energy density is much less than gasoline, so the more ethanol they put in the gas the worse gas mileage you get.
In a car with forced induction this is mostly offset by being able to run higher boost because of how ethanol resists detonation, which means you get more power. Running ethanol in a normally aspirated car that doesn't need the requisite octane boost really gives no benefit other than emissions.
How many cylinders an engine has is not directly linked to how much power it makes. You can have a V8 with 400hp, a V6 with 400hp, or a inline or boxer 4 with 400hp. There differences come in regards to torque and horsepower made at any given RPM, and general driveability based upon another set of factors like boost levels and power curve.
Precisely, but there are different additives they add in the winter that they don't add in the summer, such as anti-gelling agents, that also negatively effect fuel efficiency.
1) Measuring fuel consumption accurately is very easy. Top off the fuel tank and reset the trip meter on the odometer. Drive car. When it comes time to refuel, divide the mileage (kilometerage?) by the amount of fuel it takes to fully fill the tank. Reset the trip meter and you are ready for another round of measurement.
2) Test drive an equivalent model to your car. This is harder to get a quantitative measurement on without timing 0-100 acceleration or distance from a stop, but you should be able to feel whether you car is performing similarly or not to the test drive car. If you are still going to try and work with the dealership, this would be the most obvious comparison as well. Have them drive an equivalent car and then have them drive your car back to back (preferably with you in the car both times).
Not really, no. If you want I can show you a 2.2 litre 4 cylinder engine that puts out more power than two Corvettes...
EDIT: Wait, no, three Corvettes.
"If you don't know who Kendra is, I'm officially not speaking to you."
Hit zero on the odometer and drive it round for a few days, if possible, note the percentage of highway/city driving you are doing.
Then fill it up to the brim again.
Keep both receipts and maybe photograph them next to the odometer.
Eyeballing it and telling Toyota that "it's using a lot" doesn't mean much to them.
Also jump in the car with the wifey and flat foot it on a straight piece of road and have her time 0-60 and 0-100. These are hard numbers that you can show to Toyota for basic performance.
Satans..... hints..... I'm a mo bro!
Something is not right, contact Toyota. This isn't some mystery you'll get to the bottom of if you figure out your actual mpg. All you're going to do is run out of time with regards to your legal recourse and ease at which you get it replaced/repaired. I know it sounds like a pain in the ass, but stop dicking around and contact Toyota if you haven't yet. At the very least you can start a paper trail so when it comes time to turn this thing in or force the dealer to buy it back you're already that much farther along.
If you tell them it doesn't seem to run well they will say that didn't mean jack. If you can tell them the fuel economy is xxx and the performance of the car is xxx. They will be able to say, yes that dies not seem correct.
The testing is a paper trail.
Additionally as someone said, if you are taking the car back under the lemon laws. You will need to have evidence.
Satans..... hints..... I'm a mo bro!
I doubt that the dealer knows what is wrong and is stalling on purpose, but they are probably non-competent fuckfaces who don't want to waste a bunch of time digging through the thing to find the issue, and they're wasting your time.
If the salesmen told me "I don't know much about the mechanical side of them" I would tell him, "Well, you do know they're supposed to run right when you sell them as new, right?"
Coming home from work tonight seemed fine. Was able to maintain speed and everything with very little pedal pressure. It's the damn hills that get me. I did notice that going up the bridge today, I had to really give the pedal a bit to get it to downshift. Was running about 4000-4500 RPM until it did that.
What sort of economy loss am I going to see driving 120KM/HR as opposed to 100?
Edit: And about calling corporate at this point, I don't think I have enough to go on. "I think the car isn't as powerful as it should be and it's guzzling gas" probably isn't enough. They'll tell me to take it to a dealer, and I'll have to say the dealer said it's fine. If I could then add "but I have paperwork here that shows I'm getting 60% economy and it takes x time to reach y speed with the gas pedal floored" that might hold more water.
The fuel economy is more than enough to warrant a call.
However, I didn't realize you were only estimating your economy. Eyeballing the gauge is wildly inaccurate, and even with the check engine light on you'll typically have anywhere from 2-3 gallons left in the tank. With a car your size, that could account for a 50 (80KM) to 100 (160KM) mile spread. By filling the tank, we'll have a much better idea how things are shaping up for you.
Just as a rule of thumb, there are exceptions but someone who's buying a $18,000 4 cyl engine vehicle is probably not getting a performance machine.
There are a lot of factors that figure into that, but reading this graph from this wikipedia entry, that could be a 2-5 mpg difference. With only 4 cogs, your top gear might not have a very high overdrive ratio, but then again I thought the Matrix (Corolla platform IIRC) should be relatively fuel efficient.
Does your car have a "manu-matic" mode where you can force a downshift? Cause if you have to regularly gun it to 5K then that's going to hurt economy.
I can shift over to 3rd, 2nd, or 1st. Again, not really familiar with driving auto trans, is it safe to just pop it into 3 at any time? Or should I be at a certain speed/RPM?
But I'm not really sure as I don't think my car has that ability.
On transmissions like yours I've only used it to engine brake on a declining slope. Basically when you put in into D, you're telling the auto tranny that it can use all 4 gears (I assume 4 is an overdrive gear). When you put it into 3 you're telling the tranny it can only use gears 1-3, and so forth. So popping it into 3 should result in a downshift to 3 as quickly as the computer/tranny can do so safely, but again, not sure if it's recommended as a regular driving technique.
This is just so wrong. The minute your dealership gave you the run around, you should have involved corporate. CALL TOYOTA.
The dealership has no stake - they got your money, and that's all they care about. The corporate office has an image to maintain, and in this day and age keeping every single customer as happy as possible is paramount. Why haven't you called Toyota? People have been telling you to do it since the page 1 and you keep 'testing your mileage' - call Toyota, someone gave you the number.
broken as hell or a dodge or ford 4 speed auto from a few years ago
take your pick
So, it's not weird that your tire was out of balance, but it is weird that the shop you took it to didn't just hammer a 75g weight on the rim at the proper point. You don't want to be putting miles on a car with tires that are out of balance, as it can cause all kinds of problems (and it's really cheap and fast to fix).
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother."
There are new transmissions that allow you to do this at will, but with that shifter you've got, you do not have one of those transmissions.
Call the GM and set an appointment to drive an identical model car for a demo. If it handles exactly the same way, then its probably just you not used to automatic.
If it really bothers you, you can actually adjust the power curve settings so that it shifts at a lower RPM. Thats another trip to the dealer though..and I dont know If I'd trust them to do it at this point.